madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[brazen1]

Re: DCIP3 vs BT.2020 vs BT.709 vs Disable calibration control for HDR and SDR (all resolutions). I don't have an "enhanced" setting on my display? I don't have a "wide" setting? If you mean FULL aka Normal aka 0-255, yes I have that and I use 0-255 in all my hardware and all my software.

I was not limiting my questions to HDR only. I was pointing out that a correct value of BT.2020 for HDR sources is not a correct value for SDR sources in my display. Using that, SDR looks under saturated. When viewing SDR, if I change the value to BT.709, DCIP3, or disabled, it looks much better.

I am using "passthrough HDR content to the display" and am allowing the panel to convert and process HDR. So, these settings in madVR for HDR don't apply. What will apply is SDR calibration settings in madVR. Again, what looks the best to me are BT.709, DCIP3 or disable. I can't see a difference between any of these. BT.2020 on the other hand, looks under saturated. It also isn't reported in the OSD for SDR. BT.709 is. In the past I simply chose DCIP3 and it looked good for HDR and SDR. Now you're telling me HDR is best with BT.2020 and not to use DCIP3 for those. I can't use BT.2020 for SDR so I guess I have to separate HDR from SDR and apply accordingly.

All of my HDR titles are UHD HDR 2160p and they are all BT.2020 and they all report they mastered in DCIP3. All of my SDR are 1080p, 720p, 540p (SD) and they are all BT.709 (best guess).

I created a profile for 2160p through SD resolutions. 2160p (all HDR) calibration I set to BT.2020. (not that it matters since everything is passing through so why create separate profiles other than you say to use BT.2020 even though I'm passing through) All the others I set to DCIP3. I can also set all these others to BT.709 or disabled. Which would be more correct, for these others, DCIP3, BT.709 or disabled? I assume BT.709 since that is the 'best guess' reported but you say DCIP3 is better so I'm using that.

Or, am I completely doing things wrong here and if so how would you do it if you were me? Describing various branched off scenarios is not me. I'm not using HDR to SDR conversions. I don't use 3D LUTs. I'm in standard mode and asking about SDR, not HDR. I don't have meters and such to measure and track gamut widths. I'm asking specifically for my setup if you were me. If you need further details, I'll be happy to oblige.

[maxkolonko123]

Read the first line, "display." Your display is not switching to 23.976. Are you sure your display supports this?

A list of available refresh rates for the connected display can be viewed in Windows:

Right-click on the desktop and select Display settings then Advanced display settings;
Choose Display adapter properties -> Monitor;
A list of compatible refresh rates is shown in the drop-down.


As for the HDR movie, it doesn't look like passthrough is active. Are you using passthrough? Does your GPU and display support HDR playback?

And the 4:4:4 image? Don't worry about it. There is nothing you can change in madVR to alter this. The mode you are using might be 4:2:2, but this won't matter too much. Look up your display on Ratings.com (https://www.rtings.com/tv) for more technical information.


My display is LG E6 so im sure it support 30hz though, i thought you mean to change refresh rate in nvidia control panel so there i can change but only when not playing any movie, once movie is on refresh automatically change to 59hz in nvidia panel. I will try to check on windows display settings, and see there.


The part about image i was just curious why i cant see any numbers on madshi chroma pattern test when i have set full RGB with black levels on high in TV settings, once i set black levels to low i can see both number 4:2:2 and 4:4:4... but then black is way to bright, i though maybe this is a bug or something.

[Asmodian]

It sounds like your TV's processing is 4:2:0 when you set black levels to high. 4:2:0 should be the only time you do not see either number in the chroma test pattern (just in case, make sure you are viewing it 1:1).

[FDisk80]

have you tried tweaking the timings at all by a single digit, I was doing that with my 1050 to try and maximise the frame drop internal, I say that as some of the timings gave this error suggesting they were out of scope, you might find one thats close enough to use in the meantime.

Yes, I also found out that in all those latest broken drivers setting the custom resolution to 1920x1079 instead of 1920x1080 for example does let you create, tweak all other timings and apply that custom resolution in nvidia control panel.

But doing this makes the picture a little bit strange, it is a bit blurrier because the resolution is no longer a native one.

Also even with 1920x1079 madVR cannot switch to this mode because when trying to set madVR to 1079p24 when it goes full screen it will mark this setup as invalid and does not let you apply this mode. So it just defaults to 1080p24 with non of the settings applied even if you keep the 1920x1079 mode set up in nvidia control panel.

So it looks like nvidia did something that locks the native 1920x1080 resolution so it is no longer possible to tweak unless you also change to non native / non standard resolution.

[maxkolonko123]

It sounds like your TV's processing is 4:2:0 when you set black levels to high. 4:2:0 should be the only time you do not see either number in the chroma test pattern (just in case, make sure you are viewing it 1:1).


If u mean by 1:1 fullscreen then yeah i always look at the pattern in fullscreen. It's quite funny cause this is the only mode i can't see any number on it. When i set Ycbcr either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 there is always visible one or both numbers depending on mode.

So my question is, should i worry about it ? shall i leave it like this ? or i should change something ? what i should see when i set to full RGB ?

I need to check if i have same issue on PC mode input on TV when set to Full RGB.

Thanks buddy for all your effort trying to explain all this to me, appreciate it :)

[Warner306]

My display is LG E6 so im sure it support 30hz though, i thought you mean to change refresh rate in nvidia control panel so there i can change but only when not playing any movie, once movie is on refresh automatically change to 59hz in nvidia panel. I will try to check on windows display settings, and see there.


The part about image i was just curious why i cant see any numbers on madshi chroma pattern test when i have set full RGB with black levels on high in TV settings, once i set black levels to low i can see both number 4:2:2 and 4:4:4... but then black is way to bright, i though maybe this is a bug or something.

I looked up your display on Ratings.com. It does 4:4:4 at 4K @ 30Hz. It does support native 24p playback, so something is wrong with your GPU and its drivers. It also supports HDR10 playback, so passthrough should work.

You need a GPU with HDMI 2.0 and an HEVC decoder. Does your GPU qualify with these specifications? This would not explain your issue with refresh rates, however.

[mclingo]

sorry but you don't known what correct it...
if mpdn has the same problem it is clearly not a madVR problem.

everything points at your TV everything...

Doesnt look like MPDN does 23,976 playback, i cant see anything in settings and nothing comes back on a google search, any other DIRECT3D11 players?

[Warner306]

Re: DCIP3 vs BT.2020 vs BT.709 vs Disable calibration control for HDR and SDR (all resolutions).

You don't need to worry about HDR calibration settings at all because you are using HDR passthrough. That discussion only related to the complex topic of HDR -> SDR conversions, which can use specialized hardware and software to create multiple calibrations for a projector. So ditch the madVR profile.

For SDR calibration, if your TV doesn't have a gamut setting, it can be assumed it is BT.709, as this is the correct calibration for SDR content. I could be wrong, but that is most likely. Check your display on Ratings.com for more detailed discussion.

[maxkolonko123]

I looked up your display on Ratings.com. It does 4:4:4 at 4K @ 30Hz. It does support native 24p playback, so something is wrong with your GPU and its drivers. It also supports HDR10 playback, so passthrough should work.

You need a GPU with HDMI 2.0 and an HEVC decoder. Does your GPU qualify with these specifications? This would not explain your issue with refresh rates, however.

My card is Nvidia 1060 rog strixx so yeah it does have hdmi 2.0 and hevc decoder, hdr it works fine tbh when set to passtrough cause tv shows hdr mode when starting hdr movie. The only thing what's odd is refresh rate, like I said before I can change it to any from 23 to 59hz but once I start any movie is automatically change to 59hz.

Can this be happening cause of the reclock?

[Asmodian]

Yeah i did install newest nvidia drivers 391.24. My modes in madvr are like that 2160p60, 2160p59, 2160p50, 2160p29, 2160p30.

Change the order from low to high instead of high to low:
2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60

[maxkolonko123]

Change the order from low to high instead of high to low:
2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60


Ok will do, once i get to home.

Just to make it clear in my head, so my refresh rate should change automatically to a movie fps? or what determine which refresh rate should be at the time? cause im kinda lost here... At what shall i look at madvr osd info to see if it's correct or no ?

cheers

[Polopretress]

Hello.
1 HTPC using madVR / Lav filters and possibility to run movies either with mpc-be or potplayer (with exactly the same settings)

With Potplayer, Clock deviation is always at 0.00000% (after few seconds) ==> Great !
With MPC-BE , clock deviation is always not null et does not converge to 0.00000%

This make the consistency between the counter "1 frame drop/repeat every" and the "display" information wrong with MPC-BE.

1. Have you some information on the root cause ?
2. In case of display frequency optimization with an HTPC using MPC-BE, what is the counter that i need to follow ? (The value of drop/repeat per time or the value of the display)
i think , base on the comparative test i have done that it is the "display value" but need confirmation because in this case, even in case of perfect settings of display resolution frequency at 23.97602, the value in Drop/repeat is far away from "no drop/repeat frames expected")

[brazen1]

You don't need to worry about HDR calibration settings at all because you are using HDR passthrough. That discussion only related to the complex topic of HDR -> SDR conversions, which can use specialized hardware and software to create multiple calibrations for a projector. So ditch the madVR profile.

For SDR calibration, if your TV doesn't have a gamut setting, it can be assumed it is BT.709, as this is the correct calibration for SDR content. I could be wrong, but that is most likely. Check your display on Ratings.com for more detailed discussion.

That's what I thought in the first place but then it was said every consumer needs to be using BT.2020 under every circumstance. I must have misunderstood that. I will ditch the profile and go back to exactly how I was originally.

Ok. The "wide" color gamut on my Samsung is called Color Space, specifically Native. So no, I'm not limited to BT.709. The Native setting brings it to BT.2020. This is how I've always had my settings. It covers 91.7% of DCI-P3 with my 'Native' color setting aka 'wide'.

Given I do have a gamut setting and I am not limited to BT.709, which of the settings I inquired is best?

[Asmodian]

Your's is similar to my display, for SDR using "this display is already calibrated" set madVR to DCI-P3.

[brazen1]

Yes, back to original. Thank you for the confirmation.

[j82k]

Your's is similar to my display, for SDR using "this display is already calibrated" set madVR to DCI-P3.

Is there any advantage of doing this for SDR content instead of just leaving the TV at normal color gamut and madVR calibration disabled?

[Asmodian]

It actually might be better to use use "normal" gamut but then set madVR to BT.709. There is no reason to disable madVR's calibration if you know your display's gamut, it will only convert something if it not the correct gamut. This is important for SD material, which is often PAL or SMPTE-C, so madVR converts them to BT.709.

Edit:
Which is better depends entirely on your display. My TV's calibration is better if I use "wide" and compare it to DCI-P3. If I use "enhanced" and compare it to BT.709 it is pretty over saturated. However, if my "enhanced" (your "normal") option was closer to BT.709 it might be better to use that and have madVR set to BT.709.

[maxkolonko123]

Change the order from low to high instead of high to low:
2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60


Ok so this trick did the job now i have in madvr osd :

display 59.9hz
clock deviation -0.00000%

when i added 2160p24, 2160p25 then display it's showing actual refresh 23.976hz clock deviation 0.0000% but when switching off mpc-hc refresh rate doesnt change in windows though, it stays in 23hz


Now i did try to check chroma pattern test image over PC label on tv and this is what i can see, please see attachment.

So what i should leave and how, cause im really confused ???

1. Shall i leave those two strips too in madvr 2160p24 and 2160p25 but then i need to manually change refresh rate for my desktop.
2. Shall i leave PC input mode, cause then i can clearly see both numbers in chroma pattern image ?? 4:4:4 is bold
3. Or i can just leave hdmi input on tv and not bother about chroma image pattern ?

[jkauff]

You've overlooked the setting in madVR for restoring the original refresh rate. You can choose to do it when the player exits full-screen, or when the player closes.

[maxkolonko123]

You've overlooked the setting in madVR for restoring the original refresh rate. You can choose to do it when the player exits full-screen, or when the player closes.


quite funny cause those were ticked switch display when player start and restore when player shut but didn't kick in. Once i changed for second apply and then back to first option, now it's kicking in properly :)

[Warner306]

Change the order from low to high instead of high to low:
2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60


Edit: Seems the refresh rate matter is fixed. The correct display modes were 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60. At least, that's what I'd use.

[maxkolonko123]

Edit: Seems the refresh rate matter is fixed. The correct display modes were 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60. At least, that's what I'd use.


It did the job for me too, do u think we need to keep 23p and 24p too ? or from 30p and above?

[brazen1]

Swap the 2160p50 for 2160p25. There are euro 25fps titles you may need to refresh rate match before 50fps titles and 25Hz will do 50Hz if needed. You definitely should keep 24p and 23p as that is what 99% of titles are.

[huhn]

Doesnt look like MPDN does 23,976 playback, i cant see anything in settings and nothing comes back on a google search, any other DIRECT3D11 players?

change it in the windows settings. it' pretty deep and in there to bad the driver drop support for that. typical AMD.

[Asmodian]

If u mean by 1:1 fullscreen then yeah i always look at the pattern in fullscreen. It's quite funny cause this is the only mode i can't see any number on it. When i set Ycbcr either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 there is always visible one or both numbers depending on mode.


I do NOT mean full screen. You need to view that image without any scaling at all. 1:1 means each pixel in the image is displayed as one pixel on the display. You should only see one of the numbers at a time, if you see both it is either scaling or there is other processing that imperfectly blends neighboring pixels.

[EasyStart]

NUC 5th Gen mini pc, Windows 7 pro with service pack 1, all extra services are turned off in msconfig.exe, except windows core and audio, no network, no bluetooth and no wifi, pc only has MPC-BE x64 v1.5.1 stabled and MadVR v0.92.12 installed. pc connect directly to Samsung Full HD Plasma.

I do not know what is happening to MadVR, when I am watching home video on DVD, madVR is rescaling my PAL DVD to VideoCD resolution and it can not resize to fit my screen. The displayed video is always in VCD resolution, 352x240, even in fullscreen mode. I do not watch DVD that often. The last time I watched one was last year. MadVR is displaying my rmvb and x264 contents correctly but not for DVD. Any reason why it does this.

[mclingo]

change it in the windows settings. it' pretty deep and in there to bad the driver drop support for that. typical AMD.

I'll have a look at that tonight, might be able to use DEVCON

SETRES h3840 v2160 b32 f23,976

[huhn]

can you make a screen of the OSD(control+j)?

[maxkolonko123]

Swap the 2160p50 for 2160p25. There are euro 25fps titles you may need to refresh rate match before 50fps titles and 25Hz will do 50Hz if needed. You definitely should keep 24p and 23p as that is what 99% of titles are.

Ok cool, im Europe (UK) based so i deff will add 25p then, and remove 50p if there is no need for it

[ashlar42]

Ok cool, im Europe (UK) based so i deff will add 25p then, and remove 50p if there is no need for itI most definitely would do the opposite. I'm in Europe and I've always used 1080p50 and never, ever, 1080p25.

People use 1080p24 because there are no "easy" direct multiple refresh rates until 120Hz are reached. But for 25fps material, 50Hz is a boon.

[maxkolonko123]

I most definitely would do the opposite. I'm in Europe and I've always used 1080p50 and never, ever, 1080p25.

People use 1080p24 because there are no "easy" direct multiple refresh rates until 120Hz are reached. But for 25fps material, 50Hz is a boon.

Ok so i will leave it how i have now :) cheers

[brazen1]

Hmmm? I have a 120Hz native display. I use 1080p24 because that is the original mastered rate and I always match rates or judder is introduced. But because I always upscale, that resolution means nothing. 2160p24 takes its place. What that has to do with the 2160p25 I suggested, I do not know? Planet Earth II was originally mastered at 25fps. My display offers that frame rate so I can match it. Without matching it, uncontrollable judder and frame drops were introduced. So, I added 2160p25 to madVR's list of display modes and the new matched rate produced perfection. Why others recommend this is wrong and not to match refresh rates and instead double the resolution and mismatch it, I don't know? Perhaps you use 50fps titles although I've never come across one. Maybe you could explain? I suppose 2160p50 would still work because it is an exact multiple of 2160p25 but what would be the point?

[mclingo]

change it in the windows settings. it' pretty deep and in there to bad the driver drop support for that. typical AMD.

Hi, well I can confirm it also happens in MPDN so MADSHI was correct in stating this was not a MADVR issue, it must be DIRECT3D11

However, who do we know that MADVR and MPDN are correctly operating with DIRECT3D11, perhaps they just both have the same problem, its possible.

No idea where to go from here though, at least the workaround is easy to use, just turn off DIRECT3D11 for SDR material.

[nevcairiel]

I suppose 2160p50 would still work because it is an exact multiple of 2160p25 but what would be the point?

Exactly because 25 fps fits into 50p without any troubles, and it avoids further difficulties when you hit interlaced material - like, for example, some of the older BBC documentaries like Frozen Planet, which after deinterlacing is 50 fps. So you are never left in an odd spot where the screen was switched to 25p because something didn't quite account for interlaced content (happens often with oddly flagged files), but madVR wants to output 50 fps to it.

At least on my TV motion looks absolutely fine running 25 fps on 50 Hz, and motion problems is the most obvious problem for me personally, I generally spot immediately if the screen refresh for some reason didn't change to the right one or anything like that.

So instead of trying to increase complexity by handling both 25p and 50p modes, why not simplify it by using one that works perfectly for both?

[huhn]

it's simple there is no spec for 25 FPS on blu ray or broadcast. edit: UBD has 25p support and internet videos doesn'T really care.
there are true 120, 144 and 240 hz screen (even 480 hz 480p test models). all of these will obviously run perfectly with a 24p source this played at 240 hz so this is not a mismatch and nones has recommand a mismatch here.

and there are native 60 hz screen that can display 24p properly so it's not that simple at least this part.

@mclingo
D3D11 is broken in MPDN and madVR using an AMD card and are working fine with nvidia and your TV does "stuff" do i really have to say it?

one thing is very very unlikely and that it is madVR related.

[brazen1]

So instead of trying to increase complexity by handling both 25p and 50p modes, why not simplify it by using one that works perfectly for both?

That makes perfect sense. I didn't realize there were such things as 50p. Since there is, indeed this is the best universal option and I will reco and update accordingly.

Thank you.

[Asmodian]

One reason to use 25p is for >8-bit support with a 4K screen... not very important in my option but it is a valid reason. :o

[LigH]

Page 2500 (*20 = 50K posts soon). Wow.

[Pat357]

I'll have a look at that tonight, might be able to use DEVCON

SETRES h3840 v2160 b32 f23,976

How do you use DEVCON ?
It's not a normal .exe called via Powershell ...

[mclingo]

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/devtest/devcon

its just an exe.

here is an example command, I used this to manually drop into 23,976.

SETRES h3840 v2160 b32 f23

I have my default desktop settings at 60hz programmed my on remote, is handy when you lose HDMI handshake or when KODI doesnt drop back to 2160p properly from 1080p which it does on occasion.

[DragonQ]

Is there a guide or standard settings used for displaying HDR content on an SDR PC monitor? I've got a film to look pretty close to a 1080p SDR version by using:

- Convert HDR content to SDR using pixel shader math
- Display's peak nits: 100
- (All other settings default)

But it's still a bit washed out. I assume there's no "perfect" solution to this?

[huhn]

no there is no perfect solution the whole HDR topic is pretty much vivid mode without a clear spec. everyone pretty much does what they want with it.

increasing the peak nit should make it look less washed out.

[ryrynz]

Yeah default nits rating was changed because of this. Don't set to 100.

[mindz]

Hi,

Im testing the new DXVA11 native decoding with madvr and lav filters. I use Intel HD620 GPU, this is working. I used to use DXVA2 scaling for chroma and image bc this sufficed. With DXVA11 decoding the chroma and image scalers used are Bilinear. Is there a way i can get DXVA11 decoding with DXVA2 scaling?

[nevcairiel]

Im testing the new DXVA11 native decoding with madvr and lav filters. I use Intel HD620 GPU, this is working. I used to use DXVA2 scaling for chroma and image bc this sufficed. With DXVA11 decoding the chroma and image scalers used are Bilinear. Is there a way i can get DXVA11 decoding with DXVA2 scaling?

No, not yet.
Refer to the release notes for the limitations:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1815291#post1815291

Hopefully madshi finds some time soon to resolve those limitations, so we can recommend D3D11 decoding without reservations.

[mindz]

Thanks for the quick reply!

[pirlouy]

One reason to use 25p is for >8-bit support with a 4K screen... not very important in my option but it is a valid reason. :o
Another one: if you use motion interpolation from your TV. Better interpolation from 25p to 100Hz than 50p to 100Hz.

[DragonQ]

no there is no perfect solution the whole HDR topic is pretty much vivid mode without a clear spec. everyone pretty much does what they want with it.

increasing the peak nit should make it look less washed out.

Yeah default nits rating was changed because of this. Don't set to 100.

I'm confused. Increasing the "display's peak nits" setting in the HDR tab makes it more washed out for me.

[maxkolonko123]

Ok, so after matching refresh rate with movie rate by adding 23p and 24p to the string, i had time to watch few HDR movies like Lucy and Star Wars i noticed cpl issues :

1st im getting framed drops and repeated frames, which when i had refresh rate at 59hz never happened.

2nd thing now i have frame repeated every around 7.30min, when on 59hz i had around 44min.

Clock deviation is on 0.00000%

Didn't check yet any 1080p movies so can't tell if there will be same issues, so far only those 2 movies in HDR

So my question is why after matching tv refresh rate to movie such problem started to occur? and steps i should i do to try make this sorted.

btw. i have smooth option off if does matter or not in this situation, but from what i remember when i had on, there were issues with smooth playback

what i notice as well that :
- decoder, upload, render, present queue cant stabilize, i can see every few seconds changes there

cheers

[Warner306]

I'm confused. Increasing the "display's peak nits" setting in the HDR tab makes it more washed out for me.

Is diffuse white set to 100?