madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[khanmein]

The FSE with D3D11 is fixed by Microsoft Windows.

[mytbyte]

Sorry if this has been covered before but the thread is huuge, the search found nothing.

I'm using HDR->SDR conversion via MadVR to a measured 180 nit monitor with cca 2.2 gamma...I have measured the post-MadVR gamma curve for it with a colorimeter, with "compress highlights" turned on...comparing it to the BT2084 curve, I find that the rolloff starts way too early, as low as 30% (10 nits) input while it should start at around 50% (or around 100 nits) since that's what color grading aims at as diffuse white. I know 200 nits peak brightness of an average monitor is not exactly HDR, but what I propose, there would still be 100 nits to do the rolloff and achieve more of the HDR effect...just a note: changing current options except turning off "compress highlights" made no difference...

I'd like to encourage the Great Madshi to look into this and hopefully adapt the behaviour of the conversion. Thanks.

[mparade]

what now? does the player crash or do you get blackscreen or both?
be awaree that windows 10 pretty much hates FSE and it has changed alot in term of FSE and depending on the windows 10 version you are using you may have more or less problems.

MPC-HC clearly is crashing when:

"use Direct3D 11 for presentation..." is enabled
or when "automatic fullscreen exclusive mode" is enabled
in case of any source I have but "frame-packed" 3D sources.

and of course frame-packed 3D rendering is only working as it expected when:

"use Direct3D 11 for presentation..."is enabled
and when "automatic fullscreen exclusive mode" is enabled, too.

So for a stable workflow I need to create separate profile for 3D sources and everything else currently. I have to give up with 10-bit processing as well due to lack of feature Direct3D 11.

Does anyone have some solution? Going back to a previous Nvidia driver would help? Or should I wait for a win10 repair/new driver from Nvidia?

[AngelGraves13]

madshi, there's a few UHD titles that madvr doesn't correctly recognize the HDR properties. One such title is Planet Earth II UHD Blu-ray. It says "HDR, unknown properties." Another title I encountered this with is Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Maybe it's just a cosmetic thing, but it does correctly measure the peak values.

[Manni]

madshi, there's a few UHD titles that madvr doesn't correctly recognize the HDR properties. One such title is Planet Earth II UHD Blu-ray. It says "HDR, unknown properties." Another title I encountered this with is Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Maybe it's just a cosmetic thing, but it does correctly measure the peak values.

There is no HDR metadata for these titles. They have all fields set to zero. Nothing to do with MadVR, which is correctly reporting the absence of information.

Same for Life of Pi and the UK version of Dunkirk.

[AngelGraves13]

There is no HDR metadata for these titles. They have all fields set to zero. Nothing to do with MadVR, which correctly reporting the absence of information.

Same for Life of Pi and the UK version of Dunkirk.

Good catch. Didn't notice that at first.

[Clammerz]

is there a way to quickly "convert" a few clips (which still amount to a few thousand frames) through madvr processing without manually screenshooting every single frame?

I don't know about "quickly", but you can use something like AutoHotkey to issue the "next frame" key in the media player followed by the screenshot key. Decent players auto-increment the screenshot filename, and so long as you add enough delay between frames (or pixel peak the timeline/framecounter for perfect control) it should work fine for small clips.

You may need to check MadVRs screenshot options to make sure it's outputting the expected results (I believe there are options to use pre/post resize for example).

[mparade]

In case of "frame-packed" 3D source, is it the correct behaviour of madVR not to double the source to 4K, even though the display is 4K with the refresh rates and resolution and a "3D" profile's doubling algorithm set properly? I expected 2 pcs of 4K image being sent to the display.

Any help would be appreciated.

[huhn]

3D is capped at 1080p that's the maximum HDMI supports there is no UHD 3D spec.

[mparade]

3D is capped at 1080p that's the maximum HDMI supports there is no UHD 3D spec.

Ok, thanks for the info!

[Goeggel]

A happy New Year to everyone here and a conundrum regarding HDR10 for the new year…:


I have a couple of HDR10 demos, which let my Sony TV switch automatically into HDR mode using Zoom Player and madVR
I have a couple of supposedly HDR movies, which DON’T let my Sony TV switch automatically into HDR mode using Zoom Player and madVR, but when playing them through the TV built-in video app, the TV switches automatically into HDR mode


My setup:
Windows 10 Enterprise 1709 64bit
Zoom Player 14
madVR v0.92.10 -> set to 10bit and 0-255 and HDR metadata passthrough
Nvidia GTX 980 385.69 -> set to 12bit and RGB Full
Sony XD9305 TV (HDR ready)

Test scenario A:
Playing HDR10 demos (Exodus trailer and LG Colors of Journey demo) through madVR -> TV switches to HDR mode -> ok
Playing HDR10 demos (Exodus trailer and LG Colors of Journey demo) through TV built-in video app -> TV switches to HDR mode -> ok

CTRL+J shows the following information for both files:
D3D11 10bit windowed
Matrix/Primaries BT.2020
P010 10bit 4:2:0

Test scenario B:
Playing HDR10 movies (HDR10 according to their file names) through madVR -> TV doesn’t switch to HDR mode -> not ok
Playing HDR10 movies (HDR10 according to their file names) through TV built-in video app -> TV switches to HDR mode -> ok

CTRL+J shows the following information for both files:
D3D11 10bit windowed
Matrix/Primaries BT.709
YV12 8bit 4:2:0

The movies first look washed out when playing through madVR. But when switching the TV manually to HDR, the colours seem to be fine (they look the same as when playing throug the built-in video app).

Now to the conundrum (I hope you are still with me…):

According to their file names, the movies are supposed to be in 4K HDR10.
The movies are from different release groups, but they behave all the same.
When playing them through the TV built-in video app, the TV automatically switches into HDR mode.


Could it be that madVR somehow misinterprets the movies’ video data? Is there any other explanation for this behaviour? How can I tell whether the movie files are really HDR 10bit?

[mytbyte]

@Goeggel: you could post here the report generated from running your trouble files through Mediainfo software...we need to see what metadata are there in the file in order to help...just please omit the title of the movie from the report

[Goeggel]

@mytbyte:

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 1 h 48 min
Bit rate : 45.0 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.226
Stream size : 34.0 GiB (76%)
Writing library : ATEME Titan KFE 3.7.3 (4.7.3.1003)
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : PQ
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : Display P3
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2

[mytbyte]

@goeggel: all seems correct...except I've never seen a feature film encoded with ATEME Titan KFE

[Goeggel]

@mytbyte: As the metadata seems ok, why does madVR show "Matrix/Primaries BT.709 / YV12 8bit 4:2:0" for this movie and seemingly not passthrough the HDR info to the TV? Does madVR do SDR conversion in this case?

The Sony TV video app seems to be able to read the metadata correctly as it automatically switches to HDR.

Thanks for the quick replies by the way!

[d3rd3vil]

Still no Dolby Vision passthrough

[Asmodian]

Dolby Vision requires A LOT more than a "passthrough". Please, try keep these reminders down to once every half a year, at most. :mad:

[nussman]

@d3rd3vil: I think this is really enough now. Please open a "Dolby Vision" thread if you want to and stop spamming here.

[mytbyte]

@mytbyte: As the metadata seems ok, why does madVR show "Matrix/Primaries BT.709 / YV12 8bit 4:2:0" for this movie and seemingly not passthrough the HDR info to the TV? Does madVR do SDR conversion in this case?

The Sony TV video app seems to be able to read the metadata correctly as it automatically switches to HDR.

Thanks for the quick replies by the way!

When MadVR does the HDR->SDR conversion it still reports what metadata say in the file...next to matrix BT.709 and primaries BT.709, does it say "(says upstream)" or "(best guess)"?

[Neo-XP]

Still no Dolby Vision passthrough

Stop this Dolby Vision spam bullshit in this thread FFS :devil:

Every single post : https://forum.doom9.org/search.php?searchid=8039934

STOP

[lvqcl]

From this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1823046#post1823046):

Support won't come sooner the more you bother devs about it, you know. :rolleyes: Thats EXACTLY the opposite of what I am thinking. You gotta ask and hurry people in every forum around the world

looks like the only way to stop him is ban.

[hannes69]

looks like the only way to stop him is ban.
Voting for this one...
Always the same few annoying people disturbing the huge reasonable rest of the community.
I´m for freedom of speech but on the other hand for other democratic principles for certain cases.
I´m voting for a ban :angry:

[brazen1]

@Goeggel

HEVC requires hardware decoding unless you have a very strong CPU to assume the decoding. Your GTX 980 does not hardware decode. Your TV plays it because it's not using your GPU. At best you might be forcing HDR to SDR and get it to play something but it isn't ever going to be correct using that GPU. You might be software decoding using your CPU and not even know it.

[Goeggel]

@mytbyte:


When playing the demos (TV automatically switching to HDR), next to matrix BT.2020 and primaries BT.2020, it says "(says upstream)".

When playing the movies (TV not automatically switching to HDR), next to matrix BT.709 and primaries BT.709, it says "(best guess)".


@brazen1: the CPU seems to be strong enough as it is able to play the demos and the movies without frame drops. With my limited knowledge, it looks as if madVR isn't able to extract the correct metadata from these movie files, while on the other hand the Sony TV app is able to. But that's just a guess.
How can I check whether madVR does a HDR->SDR conversion?

[Asmodian]

If madVR says the source is BT.709 it is not doing an HDR -> SDR conversion, it is treating the BT.2020 content as if it was BT.709 so it looks washed out. This means that the file has been created incorrectly. I am not sure what the differences are or what the TV uses to switch to HDR mode but I have a lot of HDR movies in mkv (muxed directly from UHD blurays I own) which work in madVR, both Dolby Vision (in HDR10 fallback mode) and HDR10 discs.

[brazen1]

Some TV's show HDR is enabled when it goes into the mode. Some TV's don't show this notification but you can go into the menu and see if Contrast has been maxed (or bumped to whatever your calibration is). I don't know what to look for in an OSD to see if something is converting HDR to SDR because I've never been in the scenario. I would assume if you played an HDR to SDR, the OSD would report BLANK xxxx nits value, BT.2020 ->DCI-P3. Do you see nit values? Sometimes it's best to post your entire OSD.

[mytbyte]

@asmodian: there is mediainfo report on the file several posts earlier, all seems correct, and still, MadVR fails to read the metadata and takes a guess and concludes it's BT.709 all the way...the file, however is indeed most likely a re-encode from a UHD BD, perhaps something did get "lost in translation", but why then the TV's player reads the metadata correctly?

[xabregas]

so im thinking in buying gtx 1060 6GB for 4k madvr upscaling and other stuff. I have the budget now. But nvidia volta gpus can be released tomorrow or next week and even not knowing anything about their specs should i wait?? Or HEVC performance wont be improved in this VOLTA cards?

[brazen1]

His successes are .mkv test files. His failures are .iso's. The media info is an iso. I use iso and mkv. Both are successful. The difference being GPU's. An iso bitrate is also around 100Mbs. The test files around 45Mbs. The TV cannot play iso, only mkv. Consider those variables.

[brazen1]

AIUI, Volta with madVR will be a game changer. HDMI 2.1 MAYBE. NVDecode may also be a new video decoder introduced replacing GDDR5x which should allow madVR at highest settings, even UHD, to be implemented (replacing NVCUVID). Don't know anything for sure. NVidia press conference from CES in 4 days. Maybe some details?

[huhn]

NVdecode is renamed CUVID and i never saw a case where memory speed plays any rule for madVR when a 128 bit and GDDR5 or better are present.

[brazen1]

I'm sure you know much more about this than I do and I don't mind being corrected. From what I gather, Hynix is supplying the memory. It will be GDDR6. The higher end cards will use HBM2. 384 bit. It will be about 45% faster. NVdecode has been present in the 10 series. No one has implemented it in software because the older version of it, CUVID is all developers have to work with. I assume with Volta will come a new video codec SDK for madshi to tinker with using NVdecode.

[nevcairiel]

NVdecode has been present in the 10 series. No one has implemented it in software because the older version of it, CUVID is all developers have to work with.

NVDecode and CUVID is exactly the same thing, they just renamed it for marketing purposes, but the SDK didn't even change at all (short of the name in the documentation) - and there are no advantages over using DXVA2 or D3D11 decoding with madVR.
The decoding hardware in NVIDIA cards hasn't changed fundamentally for quite some time, only extended for new codecs - but they also don't really have to, its fast and works pretty well.

[mclingo]

Hi, there are quite a lot of HDR and 10 bit remuxes knocking about now, perfect for KODI DS and MADVR playback, is anyone aware of a windows tool or app you can install, or anything I can use to check to see if my entire pipeline is 10 bit, it should be, my TV is set as 10 bit and I have deep colour set on my TV, my receiver is also capable or passing through 10bit.

I've compared 10 bit with 8 bit SDR rips and I cant see any difference, obviously it could be these were mastered in 8 bit and just upconverted to 10 bit and therefore any banding issues would remain, so I'm looking for a way to really know whether I'm getting any benefit at all from using 10 bit colour on my PC and TV.

I'm hoping something I play play in 10 bit and then 8 bit where I can see a difference is colour banding, something like this:

http://www.zero-friction.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/4K-Malas-image-2.png

[nevcairiel]

Check this thread for some attempts at testing full 10-bit output:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172128

In short however, its not always easy to confirm this depending on the screens processing etc, but as long as 10-bit output looks good..

[AngelGraves13]

AIUI, Volta with madVR will be a game changer. HDMI 2.1 MAYBE. NVDecode may also be a new video decoder introduced replacing GDDR5x which should allow madVR at highest settings, even UHD, to be implemented (replacing NVCUVID). Don't know anything for sure. NVidia press conference from CES in 4 days. Maybe some details?

There’s nothing special about Volta. The Titan V is about 30% faster than a 1080 Ti, and that’s when it doesn’t perform worse. The consumer cards we’ll get later this year will be cut down versions so expect worse performance. I think Volta will offer about 20% more performance for the high end card, which is pathetic. 9 series to 10 series was a 50% boost. I guess they don’t have to try anymore since AMD can’t compete.

Volta won’t be game changer, especially not for madvr

[Goeggel]

@mytbyte and brazen1:
would it help if you could have a look at one of the movie files yourself? I could cut out the first couple of seconds from the movie and upload it somewhere (any suggestion for a suitable location?)?

[nevcairiel]

There’s nothing special about Volta. The Titan V is about 30% faster than a 1080 Ti, and that’s when it doesn’t perform worse. The consumer cards we’ll get later this year will be cut down versions so expect worse performance. I think Volta will offer about 20% more performance for the high end card, which is pathetic. 9 series to 10 series was a 50% boost. I guess they don’t have to try anymore since AMD can’t compete.

Volta won’t be game changer, especially not for madvr

You can't really extrapolate the consumer/gaming performance of Volta from the Titan V - its architecture is quite different to the consumer cards. GP100 also had a different architecture (different configuration of cores and control logic, and whatnot), it was just never used on any card one could buy.
The Titan V is the first "compute" focused Titan for a long time, basically since the very first Titan.

I fully expect a high-end Volta "Ti" card to actually be faster in gaming then the Titan V.

[AttackSharply]

Well, I just got the IRQ Not less or equal blah blah error again, and that's with FSE disabled and using MadVR 92.10, but this was only upon exiting my media player and not while watching something.

Before the only error I'd get while exiting was the No Execute BSOD.

[mclingo]

Well, I just got the IRQ Not less or equal blah blah error again, and that's with FSE disabled and using MadVR 92.10, but this was only upon exiting my media player and not while watching something.

Before the only error I'd get while exiting was the No Execute BSOD.

i'd look at completely stripping out your NVIDA drivers using DDU and then try 285.28.

If that doesnt work, if you have s spare disk run up a quick image to dual boot to test your system hardware, no point doing a full rebuild if something as at fault.

[xabregas]

AIUI, Volta with madVR will be a game changer. HDMI 2.1 MAYBE. NVDecode may also be a new video decoder introduced replacing GDDR5x which should allow madVR at highest settings, even UHD, to be implemented (replacing NVCUVID). Don't know anything for sure. NVidia press conference from CES in 4 days. Maybe some details?

So im better off waiting :D

Its not only the performance boost but the new technologies might be worth the wait even knowing i really need a gpu with hevc hardware decoding now.

[yok833]

Hello, i am know watching a lot of 4K HDR 10bit content on my 65B7V OLED and I would like to know if I should keep dithering enable (error diffusion or ordered) ? Same question with all the artifact removals options ? Many thanks

[mclingo]

doubt you will see any advantage from HDMI 2.1 for a while and your whole pipeline will need to be 2.1, but its worth waiting to see if the new cards have it, hard to know how much more MADVR grunt these cards will have though, you may even find the current crop gives you enough, I'm happy with NGU sharp medium on my RX550 for image upscale and Lanczos for Chroma upscale, I get a superb picture all round.

if most of what you play is 1080p bluray quality you may not see much difference with higher end processing anyway, but it can be very subjective and also depend on your TV setup and how far away you are sat.

I have an LG OLED 65 inch and I sit about 6 ft away when watching movies...for the sickest experience possible :)

[huhn]

Hello, i am know watching a lot of 4K HDR 10bit content on my 65B7V OLED and I would like to know if I should keep dithering enable (error diffusion or ordered) ? Same question with all the artifact removals options ? Many thanks

never disable dithering except for testing.
and select the type of dithering that looks best for you.
if in doubt ordered dithering.

artefact removal is there to well remove artefacts so your content has banding you can use debanding the is the same for HDR.

[mytbyte]

@mytbyte and brazen1:
would it help if you could have a look at one of the movie files yourself? I could cut out the first couple of seconds from the movie and upload it somewhere (any suggestion for a suitable location?)?

Well, upload to wetransfer and PM the link :devil:

[yok833]

never disable dithering except for testing.
and select the type of dithering that looks best for you.
if in doubt ordered dithering.

artefact removal is there to well remove artefacts so your content has banding you can use debanding the is the same for HDR.

OK thanks. I thought that with 10 bit videos and good it was not necessary anymore.

[Asmodian]

I do have UHD HDR blurays with banding in the source. :(

Dithering is always good, "necessary" is relative but dithering is fast and nothing is better if you turn it off. Dithering quality is less important at higher bitdepths but still beneficial.

Sorry, this isn't directed at only you but this question gets asked a lot:
NEVER DISABLE DITHERING! ;)

[xabregas]

doubt you will see any advantage from HDMI 2.1 for a while and your whole pipeline will need to be 2.1, but its worth waiting to see if the new cards have it, hard to know how much more MADVR grunt these cards will have though, you may even find the current crop gives you enough, I'm happy with NGU sharp medium on my RX550 for image upscale and Lanczos for Chroma upscale, I get a superb picture all round.

if most of what you play is 1080p bluray quality you may not see much difference with higher end processing anyway, but it can be very subjective and also depend on your TV setup and how far away you are sat.

I have an LG OLED 65 inch and I sit about 6 ft away when watching movies...for the sickest experience possible :)

Is the rx 550 you have able to decode 4k hevc 10 bits UHDBlurays without stressing the cpu??

What chroma algo can it handle while playing a 4k movie? Bicubic only or it can go to jinc?

Maybe the RX 560 thats 20$ more will handle a bit more??

I can have a rx560 for about $125 nearby... And then when nvidia volta cards comes i might upgrade or not. Rx 560 must be better than rx550 right?

[huhn]

the rx 550 is a total money robbery. a 560 has nearly double the processing power for little more.

make sure it is a Baffin XT not a Baffin XL. i better not comment more on this topic. i have no good words for this fist into the face of customer.

but if you want to use NGU you are wasting your money with polaris.

[xabregas]

the rx 550 is a total money robbery. a 560 has nearly double the processing power for little more.

make sure it is a Baffin XT not a Baffin XL. i better not comment more on this topic. i have no good words for this fist into the face of customer.

but if you want to use NGU you are wasting your money with polaris.

Baffin what?? It doesnt say. Its the MSI RADEON RX 560 AERO ITX 4G OC model.