madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Manni]

Change the device in LAV filter properties to specify your GPU when using D3D11, this should enable D3D11 copyback (which will make zoom control work)

Thanks, it does make zoom control work but I do have to scale chroma upscaling down to NGU Low (few drops) or Super XBR (no drops). NGU Medium drops too many frames to be usable in D3D11 copy-back.

With D3D11 native I have NGU upscaling on high without any problem.

[ashlar42]

Billy Lynn is one of the titles in 4K60p, but I do have quite a lot of demo test files in 60p.Yup, was aware of Billy Lynn, you made me wonder if I was missing anything else. Thanks.

[iSeries]

Thanks, it does make zoom control work but I do have to scale chroma upscaling down to NGU Low (few drops) or Super XBR (no drops). NGU Medium drops too many frames to be usable in D3D11 copy-back.

With D3D11 native I have NGU upscaling on high without any problem.

But that's just with 4k60p right? Almost all content is of course 24p (bar one film that I can think of) and that isn't likely to change any time soon, so I don't think it'd be much of a problem. Either way, super-xbr seems to be a perfectly decent chroma scaler.

[LigH]

If "inclusive artifact removal" is only used in "NGU Sharp" resampling, then I can't use it for luma upscaling, at most for chroma upscaling only. Too weak GPU, I guess.

[Manni]

But that's just with 4k60p right? Almost all content is of course 24p (bar one film that I can think of) and that isn't likely to change any time soon, so I don't think it'd be much of a problem. Either way, super-xbr seems to be a perfectly decent chroma scaler.

I can't change the chroma upscaler just for 4K60p content because I already have profiles according to resolution.

Anyway, as I said it's not a big deal, I'll just use manual zoom control until D3D11 native works with zoom control.

[arrgh]

Intel GPU drivers are pretty bad, unfortunately. Haven't had a chance to look at your PMs yet. There's some hope that things might improve for Intel GPUs when I finally switch madVR over to D3D11 rendering. But I don't know when that will happen exactly. Could be a while, I'm not sure.


ok, but at least midterm progress can be expected.

meanwhile, to bridge the gap in time : the side-by-side trick... does it send 2 Full-HD Pictures to the TV, so that in principle the PQ remains the same? Or is there a downscaling involved to 2 half-resolution pictures ?

[Clown shoes]

Hey guys, what's the easiest way to update my madVR install? Is there a way of doing it and not having to re input all my settings manually? Cheers

[Emulgator]

Don't overwrite your settings.bin in madVR's program folder.

[ryrynz]

Yeah copy paste over that's it, you won't need to redo your settings unless something happens to the settings.bin or registry, I just have a send to -> madVR in my right click Explorer context menu cos I'm lazy.

[omarank]

* added 3dlut information to OSD (only if active)
This is very useful info added to the OSD. There is one minor thing though. If I use keyboard shortcut to disable the 3DLUT, the OSD still lists it indicating an active 3DLUT.

[Axelpowa]

Hi Madshi!

I've been following the thread in Avsforum about the mapping from hdr to sdr2020 feature of madvr.

I have no knowledge about all this science that is behind the software, but the movie they have chosen, Mad Max, I find it the worst of all HDR examples they could take.

First time I saw it I also noticed weird things like blue colors within fires or gunshots or the shift from the color in explosions to red saturation and white highlights (already solved).

I tested it yesterday night and I changed my settings from 200 peak nits, 25% luminance reduction and 75% ssturation to 200 nits, 30% - 70% and diffuse white to 50 nits spline.

To my eyes I loose some general light, but not at all the frame like if I increase the peak nits value.

I'm a JVC user too.

Every other movie I've watched looks great with the sdr conversion and it even allows me to use my proyector in low lamp mode with a 120" screen.

Perhaps there is place to improve, but I'm very happy with madvr at the moment.

Regards!

[Manni]

Hi Madshi!

I've been following the thread in Avsforum about the mapping from hdr to sdr2020 feature of madvr.

I have no knowledge about all this science that is behind the software, but the movie they have chosen, Mad Max, I find it the worst of all HDR examples they could take.

First time I saw it I also noticed weird things like blue colors within fires or gunshots or the shift from the color in explosions to red saturation and white highlights (already solved).

I tested it yesterday night and I changed my settings from 200 peak nits, 25% luminance reduction and 75% ssturation to 200 nits, 30% - 70% and diffuse white to 50 nits spline.

To my eyes I loose some general light, but not at all the frame like if I increase the peak nits value.

I'm a JVC user too.

Every other movie I've watched looks great with the sdr conversion and it even allows me to use my proyector in low lamp mode with a 120" screen.

Perhaps there is place to improve, but I'm very happy with madvr at the moment.

Regards!

We chose this movie because it's one of the titles that actually have content near 4000nits. You can try other titles with content significantly above 2000nits, such as Batman vs Superman and you'll see such issues as well. Mad Max is not "worse", it's a demanding title to do right on a projector.

If you only watch films with content up to 1100nits, MadVR's conversion does a great job and there is very little to say, it's near perfect. Initially I had watched a few 1100nits films and I thought MadVR did a fantastic job (and I said so). It significantly improves the low end of the content for these titles. It's only when I started watching movies with more content in the highlights that I noticed some issues.

MadVR's conversion simply compresses highlights too much with projectors, which causes the issues some of us are reporting.

Feel free to post in the thread where Madshi has decided he preferred discussing this. It's open to everyone. Only MadVR fans are posting there (that includes me). It's not a MadVR bashing thread. :)

[madshi]

that's not what my point is it's the line "as part of NGU".

changing it to NGU sharp and it may help.
Ah yes, that makes sense! I'll change that.

If "inclusive artifact removal" is only used in "NGU Sharp" resampling, then I can't use it for luma upscaling, at most for chroma upscaling only. Too weak GPU, I guess.
You can't do NGU Sharp luma upscaling at all, not even Medium quality? FWIW, "reduce compression artifacts" currently only works for free if you use NGU Sharp in High or Very High quality, but I plan to make it work for Medium, too.

meanwhile, to bridge the gap in time : the side-by-side trick... does it send 2 Full-HD Pictures to the TV, so that in principle the PQ remains the same? Or is there a downscaling involved to 2 half-resolution pictures ?
Yes, it's half resolution, unfortunately.

This is very useful info added to the OSD. There is one minor thing though. If I use keyboard shortcut to disable the 3DLUT, the OSD still lists it indicating an active 3DLUT.
Ok, thanks, will get that fixed.

I can't change the chroma upscaler just for 4K60p content because I already have profiles according to resolution.
It should still be possible. If your profiles already include the chroma upscaling tab, then simple prepend another "if (srcWidth > 3000) and (fps > 40) "extraLowQualitySettings"" before all the other "if"s. If you don't have the chroma upscaling tab in your profiles yet, you can create another profile set just for chroma upscaling, in addition to the profiles you already have. madVR supports multiple different profile groups in each "folder".

[Manni]

It should still be possible. If your profiles already include the chroma upscaling tab, then simple prepend another "if (srcWidth > 3000) and (fps > 40) "extraLowQualitySettings"" before all the other "if"s. If you don't have the chroma upscaling tab in your profiles yet, you can create another profile set just for chroma upscaling, in addition to the profiles you already have. madVR supports multiple different profile groups in each "folder".

This is brilliant, thanks! I just added a test with fps > 30 for a UHD_LOW profile before testing for my UHD profile and that works great.

[madshi]

I'd still recommend to add a check for resolution in addition to "fps > 30", too, otherwise playing 1080p60 content will also trigger the UHD_LOW profile. Also, I'd at least use "fps > 31", because "fps" is a floating point variable, and there might be a movie which is flagged as 30.000000000001fps.

[Siso]

Madshi, regarding the 3DLUT, is it possible to shorten or make the 3DLUT name show in 2 rows, Displaycal generates pretty long 3DLUT names in example - madVR 2017-10-26 18-51 S XYZLUT.Rec709.bb0.8,2.4Gawt65.3dlut

It takes a lot of space in the OSD...

[madshi]

You can manually rename the 3dlut file name... ;)

[Manni]

I'd still recommend to add a check for resolution in addition to "fps > 30", too, otherwise playing 1080p60 content will also trigger the UHD_LOW profile. Also, I'd at least use "fps > 31", because "fps" is a floating point variable, and there might be a movie which is flagged as 30.000000000001fps.

As I said, there's a test for UHD resolution already, I only added a specific profile for a less demanding chroma algo when the UHD content is above 30p:

if (3D) "3D"
else if (srcWidth <= 720) and (srcHeight <= 576) "SD"
else if (srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight <= 720) "HD"
else if (srcWidth <= 1920) and (srcHeight <= 1080) "FHD"
else if (srcWidth <= 3840) and (srcHeight <= 2160) and (fps > 30) "UHD_LOW"
else if (srcWidth <= 3840) and (srcHeight <= 2160) "UHD"
else "4K"

I will use 31 though, thanks for the FP info.

[Asmodian]

Madshi, regarding the 3DLUT, is it possible to shorten or make the 3DLUT name show in 2 rows, Displaycal generates pretty long 3DLUT names in example - madVR 2017-10-26 18-51 S XYZLUT.Rec709.bb0.8,2.4Gawt65.3dlut

It takes a lot of space in the OSD...

No! Now that we have the 3DLUT name in the OSD we don't want to mess with it, there can be no confusion if it displays the exact name. As madshi said, rename your 3DLUT. :)

[Axelpowa]

We chose this movie because it's one of the titles that actually have content near 4000nits. You can try other titles with content significantly above 2000nits, such as Batman vs Superman and you'll see such issues as well. Mad Max is not "worse", it's a demanding title to do right on a projector.

If you only watch films with content up to 1100nits, MadVR's conversion does a great job and there is very little to say, it's near perfect. Initially I had watched a few 1100nits films and I thought MadVR did a fantastic job (and I said so). It significantly improves the low end of the content for these titles. It's only when I started watching movies with more content in the highlights that I noticed some issues.

MadVR's conversion simply compresses highlights too much with projectors, which causes the issues some of us are reporting.

Feel free to post in the thread where Madshi has decided he preferred discussing this. It's open to everyone. Only MadVR fans are posting there (that includes me). It's not a MadVR bashing thread. :)


Hi Manni!

I know its not a bashing thread, I just dont have account in avsforums. Also I dont have the knowledge to speak about the issues, so cant contribute much besides a personal opinion if I like what I see although it could be wrong displayed.

Everywhere I read about HDR the Mad Max movie comes into topic as being a pain in the ass for proyectors, therefore my connents.

I had the hope you and Madshi could work together because this software is incredible and could get even better. Sad it's not happening.

Sorry for my english, I'm from Spain.

Regards!

[LigH]

You can't do NGU Sharp luma upscaling at all, not even Medium quality?

No, the video output gets really choppy; GTS 450 is a "compromise chipset", medium bandwidth.

[huhn]

??? I beg to differ, I've tried both yadif and weston and with 1080i soccer matches the experience was nowhere near hardware deinterlacing.
so the chroma is not displayed a tthe wrong posistion when you used nvidia DXVA deinterlancing?
No, the video output gets really choppy; GTS 450 is a "compromise chipset", medium bandwidth.

you cna use control+j to the see renderstats.

[Siso]

No! Now that we have the 3DLUT name in the OSD we don't want to mess with it, there can be no confusion if it displays the exact name. As madshi said, rename your 3DLUT. :)

I did, lol :D

[el Filou]

??? I beg to differ, I've tried both yadif and weston and with 1080i soccer matches the experience was nowhere near hardware deinterlacing.I concur for HD (for SD though, YADIF is better than my NVIDIA which shows awful artifacts).
Also, those with weak CPUs sometimes can't even use YADIF on HD (it's too much for mine), and for those with weak graphics subsystem like Intel, DXVA11 can bring a much needed performance improvement Vs copy-back or software decoding needed for YADIF.

so the chroma is not displayed a tthe wrong posistion when you used nvidia DXVA deinterlancing?The loss of quality must be less noticeable than the loss of quality due to YADIF.

[chros]

As madshi said, rename your 3DLUT. :)
Even better if you create a hard link for it (so you will also have the original filename).

[LigH]

you can use control+j to the see renderstats.

A few screenshots, playing a H.264 video 640×480 in a maximized window on a 1920×1200 desktop, Windows 7:

both upscalers set to DXVA (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/madVR_GTS450_DXVA.png) (the occasional drops are from stopping and starting the video several times)
both upscalers set to NGU Sharp (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/madVR_GTS450_NGU-Sharp.png) (medium / madVR decides; constant drops)
GPU-Z report (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/GPU-Z_GTS450.png)

[huhn]

A few screenshots, playing a H.264 video 640×480 in a maximized window on a 1920×1200 desktop, Windows 7:

both upscalers set to DXVA (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/madVR_GTS450_DXVA.png) (the occasional drops are from stopping and starting the video several times)
both upscalers set to NGU Sharp (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/madVR_GTS450_NGU-Sharp.png) (medium / madVR decides; constant drops)
GPU-Z report (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/GPU-Z_GTS450.png)

maybe NGU sharp high x2 will work and you don't need NGU for chroma to get RCA running.
give bicubic 60 a try for chroma nearly everything is better than DXVA when using a nvidia and there current driver...

you can add a folder named "ShowRenderSteps" in the madVR folder to get a better look at the rendertimes.

and generally set the nvidia power settings to adaptive. optimal is buggy and a lot of people get major problem with it when using madVR.

[Clown shoes]

Afternoon all. Couple of quick questions for the more learned of you around here :D

If I have a 4k panel that is 60hz is it generally considered best practice to enter just 2160p60 under display modes in Madvr and nothing else?

Second question is about using HDR luts. I produced a 3D lut with Displaycal using the Madvr BT2020 template. It loads fine in Madvr but underneath there are options for sending metadata to my display that defaults to DCI-P3. I'm presuming that I change this to BT2020 and enter the maximum nits of my display, which in my case is 430. Does that sound about right.

Oh and I updated to the latest Madvr but despite it clearly saying 0.92.12 in the bottom left hand corner, I can't for the life of me see any of the new options that were mentioned in the changelog. Am I blind? Or stupid?.... Or both? lol

[LigH]

I read another message which may have been deleted in the meantime...

Yes, I was confused about a little detail as well: Despite setting up medium quality (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/madVR_image_upscaling.png), render stats display "high".

and generally set the nvidia power settings to adaptive. optimal is buggy and a lot of people get major problem with it when using madVR.

Where do I do that? I do not have a mobile PC. This GPU is my only one, and I am not aware of energy saving features yet...

[cork_OS]

I read another message which may have been deleted in the meantime...

Yes, I was confused about a little detail as well: Despite setting up medium quality (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/madVR_image_upscaling.png), render stats display "high".

Enabling RCA medium forces NGU high quality.

[huhn]

Where do I do that? I do not have a mobile PC. This GPU is my only one, and I am not aware of energy saving features yet...

https://abload.de/img/adaptivewzkjy.png
has nothing todo with mobile.
and you can try ngu x2 by disabling quadrupling.

[LigH]

It's tight (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/madVR_GTS450_NGU-Sharp_x2.png) (25 fps = 40 ms/f; rendering ~45-50 ms/f)

I need a new GPU. And then a new CPU as well. And new harddisks. Well ... a whole new PC.

Or bring my car through the next inspection. Either or.
__

P.S.: More values...

A 720p H.264 video plays fine in original size with ~20 ms/f; but when I maximize the player window, it takes ~90 ms/f.

[huhn]

well you clearly don't need a new CPU for madVR.

[heiseikiseki]

It's tight (http://www.ligh.de/pics/madVR/madVR_GTS450_NGU-Sharp_x2.png) (25 fps = 40 ms/f; rendering ~45-50 ms/f)

I need a new GPU. And then a new CPU as well. And new harddisks. Well ... a whole new PC.

Or bring my car through the next inspection. Either or.
__

P.S.: More values...

A 720p H.264 video plays fine in original size with ~20 ms/f; but when I maximize the player window, it takes ~90 ms/f.

A lot of dropped frames. You don't really a new cpu but consider maybe your pc is too old to use the new gpu.
And well, gpu is much expensive now because the mining upsurge.
If you do care the cost-performance an new AMD APU like Ryzen R5 2400G which would be sailed soon I think is a good choice.
(near the performance compare to the 7th i5+GTX1030 but half the money)
https://imgur.com/tBqqn4H

[LigH]

My current system is still a Phenom-II X6, modern encoders use at most "Fast SSE2". Changing the GPU and CPU only won't work. A whole new PC is required. After I saved my car.

[Asmodian]

If I have a 4k panel that is 60hz is it generally considered best practice to enter just 2160p60 under display modes in Madvr and nothing else?

No, if you tune a custom refresh rate for 24p (23.976 Hz) you should enter 2160p23 as well. Without tuning a refresh rate I suggest disabling display modes in madVR and turning on smooth motion, then madVR will use your normal desktop refresh rate all the time and you don't have to worry about refresh rates.

Actually even if you do tune a refresh rate for 24p you should enable smooth motion, it will only turn on when the refresh rate does not match the frame rate so prevents judder with less common frame rates.

[huhn]

My current system is still a Phenom-II X6, modern encoders use at most "Fast SSE2". Changing the GPU and CPU only won't work. A whole new PC is required. After I saved my car.

modern GPU can decode complex codecs nearly for free there is no need for a beefy CPU these days.

you only need a beefy CPU for stuff like UHD 10 bit H264 because that's a codec GPU can't decode.
and i'm pretty sure an phenom 2 can decode 1080p with reasonable bit rate.

[LigH]

I do not only want to decode video. I also want to encode (x265 without AVX isn't funny), and play games, and calculate stuff, etc.; it would be another allrounder for both work and leisure time, not just a HTPC.

Enough off-topic with "my next PC" before we get warned. I will gladly be available for testing the lower thresholds of new features...

[Clown shoes]

No, if you tune a custom refresh rate for 24p (23.976 Hz) you should enter 2160p23 as well. Without tuning a refresh rate I suggest disabling display modes in madVR and turning on smooth motion, then madVR will use your normal desktop refresh rate all the time and you don't have to worry about refresh rates.

Actually even if you do tune a refresh rate for 24p you should enable smooth motion, it will only turn on when the refresh rate does not match the frame rate so prevents judder with less common frame rates.

Ok so maybe I've misunderstood the function of this setting. Am I entering all of the frame rates I would like MadVR to convert for me, or am I telling Madvr what frame rates my display can correctly play back?

My TV is a mid range Hisense 4k set with a 60hz panel, so I'm guessing it's using pulldown to get 24fps. Despite this my Nvidia card lists the available display frequencies at 23, 24, 25, 29, 30, 50 and 60.

So is the best option to enter 2160p 23, 24, 25, 29, 30, 50 and 60 into Madvr and select smoothing to prevent judder?

[ryrynz]

You're entering the refresh rates that you allow madVR to switch to. Smooth Motion works on higher frame rates so if you're running say 60Hz it will activate on that to blend frames and smooth transitions at the expense of motion resolution.

[mclingo]

I'm getting vert stuttery playback on this the 1080p and 720p versions of this file with MADVR, looking at these stats does anyone have a clue why, not having issues with any other of my collection at present. Its better with NGU sharp off and set to lanczos for image upscale but still very stuttery.

General
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Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
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Duration : 2 h 4 min
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Movie name : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Encoded date : UTC 2018-02-06 08:36:28
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Video
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Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings : 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, RefFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2 h 4 min
Bit rate : 4 131 kb/s
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 688 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.85:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.196
Stream size : 3.60 GiB (91%)
Title : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 2 h 4 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 343 MiB (9%)
Title : Txxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Text
ID : 3
Format : UTF-8
Codec ID : S_TEXT/UTF8
Codec ID/Info : UTF-8 Plain Text
Duration : 1 h 57 min
Bit rate : 56 b/s
Count of elements : 1759
Stream size : 48.3 KiB (0%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

[Clown shoes]

You're entering the refresh rates that you allow madVR to switch to. Smooth Motion works on higher frame rates so if you're running say 60Hz it will activate on that to blend frames and smooth transitions at the expense of motion resolution.

So if I was to enter 2160p 23, 24, 25, 29, 30, 50 and 60 into Madvr then I would effectively be allowing my display to do all the work, is that correct?

As my TV is a basic 60hz native panel, how would you suggest I set up the frame rates in MadVR?

[ryrynz]

You would be allowing madVR to change to any refresh rate that suitably matched your content. 'switch to matching display mode' makes that obvious.
So you either automatically switch to the closest refresh rate to match the frame rate of your content or you keep it at 60Hz and enable Smooth Motion, choose whatever you prefer.
For me motion resolution is king, I'll deal with some jankiness while panning watching animated content.

[Clown shoes]

You would be allowing madVR to change to any refresh rate that suitably matched your content. 'switch to matching display mode' makes that obvious.
So you either automatically switch to the closest refresh rate to match the frame rate of your content or you keep it at 60Hz and enable Smooth Motion, choose whatever you prefer.
For me motion resolution is king, I'll deal with some jankiness while panning watching animated content.

Yeah, I think I can put up with some minor pulldown motion rather than having everything blended.

So entering all the available frame rates and turning off smoothing should give me what I'm looking for you reckon?

Thanks for your help :)

[ryrynz]

Keep Smooth Motion on, it only enables it when it can use it anyway. If you're running at 24Hz for example there's not enough screen refreshing to generate new frames so madVR disables it.
Should be what you're looking for.

[Clown shoes]

Keep Smooth Motion on, it only enables it when it can use it anyway. If you're running at 24Hz for example there's not enough screen refreshing to generate new frames so madVR disables it.
Should be what you're looking for.

Of course, that makes sense. Thanks again :D

[jeanlee20xx]

I hope it can add 2d to SBS function，thank you!!!!

[Snap]

Anyone know of a player that can capture screenshots with the HDR data preserved? From some searching it seems there's JPEG-HDR and RGBE PNG for formats but not sure what the limitations might be.

Edit: I should clarify I'm asking here since I'm currently using MadVR as my preferred renderer for such content and wondering if anything was compatible.

[jkauff]

I'm getting vert stuttery playback on this the 1080p and 720p versions of this file with MADVR, looking at these stats does anyone have a clue why, not having issues with any other of my collection at present. Its better with NGU sharp off and set to lanczos for image upscale but still very stuttery.
MediaInfo isn't always correct. What's the madVR OSD say the frame rate is? I get symptoms like this when a video is really 29.97, despite what MediaInfo reports. Seems to happen mostly with converted TV shows.

[Bozotheclown]

@mclingo

You nasty pirate :)



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Encoded date : UTC 2018-02-06 08:36:28
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