madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[James Freeman]

madshi,

Will there be image quality improvement options in the new release?
Or something extremely helpful like Smooth Motion?

I'm investigating because my patience is about to blow. :D

[6233638]

Will there be image quality improvement options in the new release?Debanding should be in the next release, and that can greatly improve image quality with many sources.

Recently, a lot of the Blu-rays I've been watching seem to have had banding to some degree, so I'm looking forward to a new build which hopefully has the refresh rate issues fixed.

[madshi]

found the real game with that option. it's world of tanks. it doesn't change the taskbar it's free to play and if i get it right it's direct x 9.
Thanks.

Will there be image quality improvement options in the new release?
Yes. At least 2 of those. And some rather nice usability improvements. I'm aiming at releasing it in time for the next weekend. Here's a small teaser to wet your appetite:

teaser screenshot (http://madshi.net/madVrTeaser.png)

[James Freeman]

Yes. At least 2 of those. And some rather nice usability improvements. I'm aiming at releasing it in time for the next weekend. Here's a small teaser to wet your appetite:

teaser screenshot (http://madshi.net/madVrTeaser.png)

:eek:

Although, I may have to ask: What is "Image Doubling"?

Thank you, Can't wait. :D


I've been thinking,
If MadVR had some pro Quality Post Processing algorithm to remove compression noise and artifacts,
along with the new Debanding algorithm, we could have a picture quality that equals to Digital Cinema or better from blu ray.

[madshi]

I don't know. Maybe I've thrown something bogus in to confuse you? :devil: Or maybe it's a new feature?

[6233638]

I can think of a couple of reasons why options like these might be making it in now, but the profiles alone are very exciting. :D

And because I'm greedy... it would be nice if debanding options could also be part of a profile rather than being set globally.

480/576i/p will be DVDs and probably use a medium strength debanding.
Anything 720p is web-sourced (e.g. YouTube, Vimeo etc.) and requires strong debanding.
Anything 1080i/p will be a Blu-ray disc and use low debanding.

[madshi]

Your greedy needs are already fully supported. Profiling will be very flexible. And yes, there's a reason why I've added profiling *now*.

[6233638]

Your greedy needs are already fully supported. Profiling will be very flexible. And yes, there's a reason why I've added profiling *now*.I suspected you would have already thought of it.

:D

[DragonQ]

Here's a small teaser to wet your appetite

Methinks you mean whet our appetites. ;)

[madshi]

I actually wrote "whet" first and then deleted the "h" because I thought it was wrong...

[michkrol]

Yes. At least 2 of those. And some rather nice usability improvements. I'm aiming at releasing it in time for the next weekend. Here's a small teaser to wet your appetite:

teaser screenshot (http://madshi.net/madVrTeaser.png)

Thanks as always. Can't wait.
If I understand the screen correctly the profiles will be much more flexible than I thought they could be :cool:

[DarkSpace]

teaser screenshot (http://madshi.net/madVrTeaser.png)
If image doubling does what I think it does, will it be possible to, say, perform image doubling from 480p to 960p and then perform rest of the scaling to 1080p using the normal upscaling algorithms?

[madshi]

Yes and yes.

[James Freeman]

EDIT: too late (and wrong).

Is it a simple whole number (x2) prescaler or is it customizable (for x1.00 to x4.00)?
If so, the result will be a controllable amount of blurr (filtering).

[Stereodude]

If image doubling does what I think it does, will it be possible to, say, perform image doubling from 480p to 960p and then perform rest of the scaling to 1080p using the normal upscaling algorithms?
Pardon the potentially stupid question, but why would you want to do that? Don't you have to scale the image to double it?

[leeperry]

more than likely save GPU load I guess ^

[AndreaMG]

Thanks.


Yes. At least 2 of those. And some rather nice usability improvements. I'm aiming at releasing it in time for the next weekend. Here's a small teaser to wet your appetite:

teaser screenshot (http://madshi.net/madVrTeaser.png)
Hi Madshi, THANKS!!!!!!!! (my prayers in post #15902 2nd december 2012 were listened to :)). It's good news for people with older GPUs :thanks:. Now it's time for 3D support, mind blowing sharpening algorithms, motion interpolation, noise reduction, perfect cadence detection,... just kidding:p, thanks again!
By the way, will it be called "v1.0"?

[tschi]

I guess double scaling refers to nneedi algorithm :D

[AndreaMG]

Yes and yes.
If memory serves me right sometime ago you succeeded in obtaining very good results in term of GPU load upscaling 1080 videos to 4k even with jinc; older GPUs will benefit from this "double" function??
Will it be similar to the PS3 "double scale" option while playing dvds?

[DarkSpace]

Pardon the potentially stupid question, but why would you want to do that? Don't you have to scale the image to double it?
I had a guess at precisely what Image Doubling is going to do, and if it's going to do what I think it will, it'll be a special form of image upscaling to look forward to. So you are right, but the upscaling will only work for doubling the width and/or height of an image.

EDIT: tschi, you ruined all the fun... and after madshi took great care to keep it secret also...

[ryrynz]

By the way, will it be called "v1.0"?

I can say with certainty it won't be called 1.0, there's much Madshi wishes to add to MadVR yet.

[noee]

It's not like there's pretty much a whole thread or anything.... ;)

Got OpenCL? ;)

[ryrynz]

EDIT: tschi, you ruined all the fun... and after madshi took great care to keep it secret also...

6233638 hinted at it, Madshi didn't deny it, so it wasn't exactly a big big secret, many of us suspected it would be added some time ago.

What I'd really like to know is if we can have nnedi performing it's 2x enlargement and then it being further upscaled with Jinc/Lanczos etc.. that would be something.
Something quite taxing for the GPU I would guess too.. ;) Time to move into mid range graphics performance.

[kasper93]

What I'd really like to know is if can have nnedi performing it's 2x enlargement and then it being further upscaled with Jinc/Lanczos etc.. that would be something.

I believe that's the idea :) And I hope not only "2x" like you said, but 2^n when possible. Though I'm not sure about performance. I guess we will know soon enough.

[kevmitch]

How is hte actual display refresh rate measured as reported at the top of the CTRL-J stats box? Is this a directx feature, or is it something more portable?
Forgive me if this has been asked before, but it didn't show up in preliminary googlings.

[Stereodude]

What I'd really like to know is if we can have nnedi performing it's 2x enlargement and then it being further upscaled with Jinc/Lanczos etc.. that would be something.
Something quite taxing for the GPU I would guess too.. ;) Time to move into mid range graphics performance.
What is the advantage of the method you're describing versus using Jinc for the whole scaling task?

[ryrynz]

From what I've seen image experts would class the nnedi upscale to be of higher overall quality, performing a first stage upscale with nnedi in this case should yield improved image quality (colors, aliasing etc)
Perhaps Madshi could show us some screenshots for comparison? ;)

[pie1394]

If image doubling does what I think it does, will it be possible to, say, perform image doubling from 480p to 960p and then perform rest of the scaling to 1080p using the normal upscaling algorithms?

Yes and yes.

If such option's functionality is like that, it seems the similar method that Sony's DRC-MFv1 engine handles the SD contents before it is rescaled to displayed panel's resolution like 1366x768 or 1920x1080... But I don't know which 2x scaling algorithm is used on DRC-MFv1.

If my memory is correct, it was first introduced on XBR2 / KDL-X2000... one of Bravia PRO 1.0 functions.

[madshi]

EDIT: tschi, you ruined all the fun... and after madshi took great care to keep it secret also...
It's not such a big secret. If you search through my posts here in doom9 in threads other than this, it's pretty obvious.

How is hte actual display refresh rate measured as reported at the top of the CTRL-J stats box? Is this a directx feature, or is it something more portable?
Forgive me if this has been asked before, but it didn't show up in preliminary googlings.
It's custom code based on polling the current GPU vsync scanline position once every millisecond and doing some math on that, plus some extra code which "connects" these measurements over long periods of time, so that the refresh rate estimate gets more exact over time.

[James Freeman]

It's not such a big secret. If you search through my posts here in doom9 in threads other than this, it's pretty obvious.

NNEDI confirmed. :D

Its the first time that I encounter this NNEDI resizer, but after a bit of googling I can conclude:
It is one of the best looking realtime upscalers I have ever seen.
Moreover, there is no hardware player that uses this method, so we get absolutely the best PQ over any Blu-Ray/DVD Player.

Again, thank you madshi for making our HTPC experience much much better.

[leeperry]

Ouh, very impressive indeed (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1658245&postcount=488) :scared:

I thought NNEDI was only a deinterlacer, but wrong I was.

Will it run on the GPU or CPU? Will it be a resource hog?

I've got a bunch of 360x288 videos that do look nasty when upscaled to 1080p, I'm ready to expect the unexpected :D

[Qaq]

Is Nnedi that great for chroma as well? Does it need AR?

[madshi]

All your questions will be answered when madVR v0.87.0 is released (current release plan: before the weekend begins).

[foxyshadis]

It is one of the best looking realtime upscalers I have ever seen.

Realtime? Heh, you must have a pretty hard-core system. It wasn't so long ago when it was best measured in seconds-per-frame.

Now that I just upgraded my laptop to a discrete gpu again, I'm looking forward to this weekend. ;)

[PetitDragon]

Can't wait to see and compare the new MadVR and my current NNEDI3 setups.:D

[iSunrise]

Yes, finally profiles support (at the very top of my wish list, since the start of madVR), thanks a lot madshi!

I´m wondering though, by looking at your teaser screenshot, is there a reason why it only shows 24fps and 60fps for SD and HD respectively, but no 25fps, 29,970fps, 30fps and 50fps options?

[James Freeman]

A little early to tell but I guess that the new "Image Doubling" algorithm is more optimized than NNEDI3 (maybe even GPU optimized), hence faster.
This function will be very useful in the near future when 4K monitors arrive to scale HD to 4K, hope we'll enough juice by then.

I have experimented with NNEDI3 (in Avisynth) and a 720x480 24fps DVD video,
and found it was using a lot of power from a i7 3770K 4.5GHz with x2 factor.
With x4 its not usable because its too slow and unable to render 24fps each second, MadVR buffers where empty (maybe I was doing something wrong?).

Indeed NNEDI3 eliminates aliasing almost completely.
We'll have to wait and see how MadVR's "Image Doubling" behaves and how much power it takes.

[James Freeman]

I´m wondering though, by looking at your teaser screenshot, is there a reason why it only shows 24fps and 60fps for SD and HD respectively, but no 25fps, 29,970fps, 30fps and 50fps options?

Its just the folder name.
By the look of it, It'll be highly customizable.

[madshi]

I´m wondering though, by looking at your teaser screenshot, is there a reason why it only shows 24fps and 60fps for SD and HD respectively, but no 25fps, 29,970fps, 30fps and 50fps options?
Did you notice the "Add profile" and "Delete profile group" buttons? The whole profile logic is totally flexible. Those 4 SD and HD profiles were just example profiles I set up for testing.

[sdancer75]

Hi,

Is there any source where can I find a c++ examples or a guide of how to use madVR under C++?

[vivan]

A little early to tell but I guess that the new "Image Doubling" algorithm is more optimized than NNEDI3 (maybe even GPU optimized)http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=169766

[6233638]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=169766I wish Nvidia took OpenCL performance more seriously. I don't want my next card to be an AMD one if I can help it.

Does anyone know if a Titan would perform better in this task than a 780? I know that Nvidia restricts compute performance on their "gaming class" cards.

[Vyral]

> debanding
> NNEDI3 upscale
> upscaling profiles
> release before the weekend
Aaand I have my plans for the weekend.

[iSunrise]

Did you notice the "Add profile" and "Delete profile group" buttons? The whole profile logic is totally flexible. Those 4 SD and HD profiles were just example profiles I set up for testing.
Yes, I´ve noticed them and now that you say it, I think I understand now.

Ok, so what I gather from that screenshot is that you can basically setup any kind of profile "name" (which you can choose freely) and have that "referenced" in the profile rule set, with some pre-defined rules (based upon tags, is the complete madVR tagging rule set allowed?) that are fully customizable?

That would be extremely powerful, indeed. And I can´t wait to test it!

I wish Nvidia took OpenCL performance more seriously. I don't want my next card to be an AMD one if I can help it.

Does anyone know if a Titan would perform better in this task than a 780? I know that Nvidia restricts compute performance on their "gaming class" cards.
Nvidia clearly wants to become a niche player with certain aspects that make them irresistible to make money. With CUDA, they follow exactly that path, yet they miss out on deals that will rely on OpenCL more and more and increasing developer-support. It saddens me, too, because it basically means that we buy (and are also willing to buy to a certain extend) powerful GPUs, whose precious silicon is going to complete waste, since they don´t want anyone else "outside" to touch it.

Regarding Titan, it should only have a lead on double-precision performance. But since I am not a Titan or 780 owner myself, I can just go by the very few OpenCL benchmarks that are currently available on the web and my understanding of the Kepler (GK110 in this case) architecture.

[huhn]

amd is currently better than nvidia if your really need or want a nvidia card you should wait for maxwell.

[mindz]

AMD > NVidia. No thanks for the detailed reason :).

[leeperry]

Maybe I missed something but I don't think I ever read madshi stating publicly that the NNEDI double scaling would be OpenCL accelerated.

[huhn]

it's opencl for sure just read: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=169766 it never was a secret. but i wonder if it's done in 16 bit but why guessing.

edit: he even stated that the new dithering mode is opencl too

[leeperry]

Oh, spot on! I didn't find the bit about dithering and CTRL+F on "dither" in this thread doesn't give any result but OpenCL accelerated Floyd-Steinberg would be too awesome for words :cool:

I guess it'll soon take a $400 GPU if you wanna have everything maxed out in mVR :D

[huhn]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1663079&postcount=14

and a lot more infos on about 3d on avs forum but what's the point of this X-)