madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[GCRaistlin]

1. [up] Is there a way to force madVR to switch the monitor to 60 Hz when playing a 29.97 fps video? "1280x1024p60" setting doesn't work.
2. Is black screen expected when playing a BluRay (1920x1080i, MPEG-4 AVC, 29.97 fps) through LAV Video with deinterlacing enabled in Video mode (50p/60p)?

[Skankee]

...(2) images with very heavy blocking

I think this is a sample with a lot of blocking:

http://s14.directupload.net/images/user/131006/3ocxo7er.png


( if 16:9 is more useful:
http://s1.directupload.net/images/user/131006/dirfozb6.png )

[huhn]

Is that the same image you posted the last time? I don't remember this one. Anyway. I don't see much (if any) banding in the original image? Might be my lacking computer monitor, though.

i just mixed them up this is debanded
http://abload.de/img/eva3s2off3tay8.png
http://abload.de/img/eva3s2lowwxl9j.png
http://abload.de/img/eva3s2high4fa8f.png


and this lost detail or get really dark when deband is enabled

http://abload.de/img/eva3s1off93ado.png
http://abload.de/img/eva3s1lowlxzfy.png
http://abload.de/img/eva3s1highc1z64.png

[michkrol]

1. [up] Is there a way to force madVR to switch the monitor to 60 Hz when playing a 29.97 fps video? "1280x1024p60" setting doesn't work.
It should be "1024p60" or perhaps "1024p59" to get ~59,93Hz. Anyway you only enter vertical resolution.
2. Is black screen expected when playing a BluRay (1920x1080i, MPEG-4 AVC, 29.97 fps) through LAV Video with deinterlacing enabled in Video mode (50p/60p)?
Are you using LAV's deinterlacing or madVR's? if LAV's, try disabling it
Are you using hardware acceleration? if yes, try disabling it.
Also a screen with OSD (CTRL+J) might help identify the problem.

[StephaneM]

You'll need to have D3D9 installed and updated to the latest version. IIRC it's not installed by default, at least not with all helper dlls etc.
A quick follow up on this for those who may be concerned in the future.

For shaders to work when using madVR with a C# application (WinForm or WPF) and using a managed interop like Directshow Lib, you'll need to either :

* have DirectX 9c installed
* or have D3DCompiler_43.dll located in the same folder as your executable.

Otherwise you'll receive an E_FAIL error code when applying the shaders through the madVR interface (you'll also receive this error when your shader cannot be compiled).

So for instance on Windows 8, all you need to do is to include D3DCompiler_43.dll for shaders to work (no need to install DirectX runtime)

I'm wondering if this should be specified in the IMadVRExternalPixelShaders / mvrinterfaces.h file as a quick notice to prevent future developers having to lookup for this information.

Regards,
--
Stéphane.

[tp4tissue]

Question guys... If I am playing a 1080p video at 1080p native res... Is madvr doing anything "more" than other renderers? /excluding smoothmotion, deinterlace

[Acetyl]

Do you guys happen to have some images/scenes with typical blocking artifacts (I mean those 8x8 MPEG2 blocks)?

If so, I'd appreciate some screenshots. No samples needed for this, screenshots will do fine, but please use PNG and not JPG. Both (1) images with rather light blocking and (2) images with very heavy blocking would be useful. Thanks!

Starting from the heaviest.

http://i3.minus.com/ibwRaQWV9q3dPA.png

http://i3.minus.com/itwirQgJUOJJ9.png

http://i6.minus.com/ibrwJ5znJFerut.png

[michkrol]

Question guys... If I am playing a 1080p video at 1080p native res... Is madvr doing anything "more" than other renderers? /excluding smoothmotion, deinterlace

Read the first post.

With default settings maVR does things "better": you get higher quality chroma upscaling (necessary for >95% of content), better precision for calculations (higher quality RGB conversion), possibly better VSync, exclusive mode is great in terms of improved usability, those are probably most important for average user (like me).

With a little tweaking: you get the ability to calibrate your display, correct black levels with broken drivers/codecs/old (incompatible) TVs, switch refresh rate to match video, ability to use xySubFilter (higher quality subtitles and better performance, especially in ASS format), ability to set scaling algorithms to your liking (or hardware restrictions), the list goes on and on :cool:

[tp4tissue]

Read the first post.

With default settings maVR does things "better": you get higher quality chroma upscaling (necessary for >95% of content), better precision for calculations (higher quality RGB conversion), possibly better VSync, exclusive mode is great in terms of improved usability, those are probably most important for average user (like me).

With a little tweaking: you get the ability to calibrate your display, correct black levels with broken drivers/codecs/old (incompatible) TVs, switch refresh rate to match video, ability to use xySubFilter (higher quality subtitles and better performance, especially in ASS format), ability to set scaling algorithms to your liking (or hardware restrictions), the list goes on and on :cool:

Is chroma up-sampled when I'm playing 1080p material to 1080p monitor?

I recall reading some where that chroma is stored in a lower res.. Is that the "upsampling" you're refering to?

I read this a very long time ago..

But I'm building a SINGLE-fan pc for my mother right now, and Just really wondering if a 4770k IGP can cut it for native res. Because I know it doesn't do it @ 2560x1600 on my monitor.

Mom will be using a Large tv panel so it will just run at 1080p, she has old people eyes where she has trouble focusing on things that are close up. hence the large tv.

[e-t172]

Is chroma up-sampled when I'm playing 1080p material to 1080p monitor?

Yes. Typical video is stored as 4:2:0 where luma is 4X the resolution of chroma. In order to render it you need to upscale chroma to the resolution of luma.

[SamKook]

tp4tissues: You might want to give AMD a try if you plan to only use the internal graphics. I put a A10-6700 APU in my HTPC and I can use all the madvr settings I want(at least up to Jinc3).
I haven't done that many test on a 1080p TV since I don't own one, but I did enough test to know that I can play 24p fps 480p, 720p and 1080p content with Jinc3 for both chroma and luma with anti-ringing and smooth motion enabled without any dropped frames.
I only tested 2-3 minutes of each, but I was really impressed that it could handle it.

[michkrol]

I have Core i5-3570K with Intel HD4000 (Ivy Bridge). I watch movies at 1080p, usually DVDs, with SoftCubic chroma and image upscaling without problem. I can even use Jinc3 for image upscaling with 24p content (probably can handle up to 30p), but I just like SoftCubic better for DVDs and other low quality sources.
When it comes to 1080p content at native resolution, my netbook with Celeron 1007U (low voltage Ivy Bridge) with Intel HD (lowest end yesteryear Intel iGPU) can do it without breaking a sweat, as long as I have SmoothMotion disabled, so it shouldn't be a problem. For everything else, if you're willing to sacrifice quality, DXVA2 scaling is lightning-fast with newer Intel iGPUs.

EDIT: The AMD might be a better choice for HTPC, as mentioned by SamKook, but I have no experience with their newer products, hence my post is centered on Intel side.

[Asmodian]

tp4tissues: You might want to give AMD a try if you plan to only use the internal graphics. I put a A10-6700 APU in my HTPC and I can use all the madvr settings I want(at least up to Jinc3).
I haven't done that many test on a 1080p TV since I don't own one, but I did enough test to know that I can play 24p fps 480p, 720p and 1080p content with Jinc3 for both chroma and luma with anti-ringing and smooth motion enabled without any dropped frames.
I only tested 2-3 minutes of each, but I was really impressed that it could handle it.

If you are watching 720p or 1080p content on a 720p TV you cannot use Jinc3 for scaling the image (only the chroma is scaled up). Jinc3 is not an option for downscaling the image so it would be downscaled using something else as set in your downscaling options. I made this same mistake not long ago but when watching 2160p content on a 1440p screen. Jinc3 requires much more GPU power as source and destination resolutions go up.

Edit: Still it is nice to know the APU is fast enough to do Jinc3 chroma to 1080p and then downscale to 720p.

[Sylt]

Any news about x64 Support?

[truexfan81]

Any news about x64 Support?

yes, the answer from madshi is "not anytime soon"

[SamKook]

If you are watching 720p or 1080p content on a 720p TV you cannot use Jinc3 for scaling the image (only the chroma is scaled up). Jinc3 is not an option for downscaling the image so it would be downscaled using something else as set in your downscaling options. I made this same mistake not long ago but when watching 2160p content on a 1440p screen. Jinc3 requires much more GPU power as source and destination resolutions go up.

Edit: Still it is nice to know the APU is fast enough to do Jinc3 chroma to 1080p and then downscale to 720p.

I know upscaling isn't used much on my own TV(the res is 1360x768 and I mostly watch 720p content so it's still upscaled a bit) which is why I mentioned that I tried it on a 1080p TV(at my parents house, maybe I wasn't clear enough in my previous post) and it was still able to play them without dropped frames.
I just noticed that I didn't have anti-ringing enabled though contrary to what I though, but I'm going back there this weekend and I'll give it another try.

It also handle downscaling with catmull-rom with anti-ringing and linear light enabled for 1080p stuff on my 720p-ish TV if there was any doubt.

[THX-UltraII]

I have a feeling that this questions comes up from time to time but I would like to know the right 'video chain' to use for my purpose. What I do is play Blu-Ray material with MPC-BE. I use madVR as renderer and LAV video filter. My display device is a Sony VPL-VW1000ES.

So I think there are 3 things I need to config:

1. madVR: 16-235 or 0-255
2. LAV: TV(16-235) or PC(0-255) or Untouched (as input)
3. Projector HDMI range: AUTO or LIMITED or FULL
4. Intel HD graphics output range FULL or LIMITED

Can you guys point me in the right direction?

[dansrfe]

I have a feeling that this questions comes up from time to time but I would like to know the right 'video chain' to use for my purpose. What I do is play Blu-Ray material with MPC-BE. I use madVR as renderer and LAV video filter. My display device is a Sony VPL-VW1000ES.

So I think there are 3 things I need to config:

1. madVR: 16-235 or 0-255
2. LAV: TV(16-235) or PC(0-255) or Untouched (as input)
3. Projector HDMI range: AUTO or LIMITED or FULL
4. Intel HD graphics output range FULL or LIMITED

Can you guys point me in the right direction?

0-255, Untouched, Full, Full

[Asmodian]

@SamKook
Ah yes I misunderstood you (your limited testing was on a different screen, of course). It does sound like a great chip for an HTPC. I was just jumping to conclusions assuming what I thought was the same oversight I had recently made. :)

My GTX Titan goes over 90% doing 2160p@60fps to 1440p with Catmul-Rom+AR+LL image, Jinc3+AR chroma, smooth motion off; not using Jinc3+AR for the image. ;)

[n3w813]

Madshi,
When running a calibration session with ArgyllCMS and MadTPG, I've noticed that lower level patterns and some green patterns show some kind of blocking that actually moves around when displayed. Is this expected behavior?

I can provide camera screenshots if you need them.

Thanks

[THX-UltraII]

0-255, Untouched, Full, Full
Thanks for your reply. I just heard on the AVS community that the projector I own, the Sony VPL-VW1000ES, has got issues when inputting rgb. Does my software setup (madvr+mpc-be+lav filters+intel hd2000 graphics hdmi out) feeds my projector with rgb or something else?

[Asmodian]

Madshi,
When running a calibration session with ArgyllCMS and MadTPG, I've noticed that lower level patterns and some green patterns show some kind of blocking that actually moves around when displayed. Is this expected behavior?

I can provide camera screenshots if you need them.

Thanks

Yes, this is expected, I see it too. I understand it is dithering but it does seem rather large for dithering. I wonder what resolution the test image is rendered in?

[Gagorian]

Yes, this is expected, I see it too. I understand it is dithering but it does seem rather large for dithering. I wonder what resolution the test image is rendered in?

I have also the same thing, I asked madshi about it earlier and he said it's dithering. Seems a bit obvious though, not sure how much it affects the calibration result.

[huhn]

Thanks for your reply. I just heard on the AVS community that the projector I own, the Sony VPL-VW1000ES, has got issues when inputting rgb. Does my software setup (madvr+mpc-be+lav filters+intel hd2000 graphics hdmi out) feeds my projector with rgb or something else?

on default rgb you can change this in the driver.

madvr outputs rgb and your intel card transforms this to ycbcr with is bad...

if i remenber correct there was a way to output ycbcr with madvr but don't ask me how.

2. LAV: TV(16-235) or PC(0-255) or Untouched (as input)

this option does nothing at least with madvr because this is only used when lav changes the colorspace but madvr excepts nearly all colorspaces if not all

[THX-UltraII]

on default rgb you can change this in the driver.

madvr outputs rgb and your intel card transforms this to ycbcr with is bad...

if i remenber correct there was a way to output ycbcr with madvr but don't ask me how.



this option does nothing at least with madvr because this is only used when lav changes the colorspace but madvr excepts nearly all colorspaces if not all
Do you recommend to get a dedicated GPU? If so, which brand supports FULL RGB out for sure? NVIDIA or AMD?

[drmpeg]

Do you guys happen to have some images/scenes with typical blocking artifacts (I mean those 8x8 MPEG2 blocks)?

If so, I'd appreciate some screenshots. No samples needed for this, screenshots will do fine, but please use PNG and not JPG. Both (1) images with rather light blocking and (2) images with very heavy blocking would be useful. Thanks!

Heavy.

http://www.w6rz.net/vma.png

Ron

[madshi]

I have a DVD that has some menus that madVR does not work correctly with (it doesn't correctly highlight the menu options when you mouse over them - EVR works fine). I'm happy to log it into the tracker, but how would I get you a sample of the menus for you to check with?
Are we talking about LAV Video Decoder? If so, I think it's probably nevcairiel's job to fix this. At least I'd ask him first. If he says it's my problem, then I'll look into it.

1. [up] Is there a way to force madVR to switch the monitor to 60 Hz when playing a 29.97 fps video? "1280x1024p60" setting doesn't work.
You've already asked twice, I've already replied twice. If you ignore my replies, then I'll ignore your further questions.

Starting from the heaviest.

http://i3.minus.com/ibwRaQWV9q3dPA.png

http://i3.minus.com/itwirQgJUOJJ9.png

http://i6.minus.com/ibrwJ5znJFerut.png
I think this is a sample with a lot of blocking:

http://s14.directupload.net/images/user/131006/3ocxo7er.png
This looks more like mosquito noise, although in one of the images it does have the form of blocks. The blocks I'm looking for should have clear edges in 8x8 size.

My GTX Titan goes over 90% doing 2160p@60fps to 1440p with Catmul-Rom+AR+LL image, Jinc3+AR chroma, smooth motion off; not using Jinc3+AR for the image. ;)
Ouch. I suppose Jinc3AR doesn't work for image upscaling? (Something cheap for chroma.)

When running a calibration session with ArgyllCMS and MadTPG, I've noticed that lower level patterns and some green patterns show some kind of blocking that actually moves around when displayed. Is this expected behavior?

I can provide camera screenshots if you need them.
Dithering should be there, but it should not be visible as "blocking". A screenshot might help clear this up. You don't need to use a digicam for that, a simple PC screenshot should do the trick.

i just mixed them up this is debanded
http://abload.de/img/eva3s2off3tay8.png
http://abload.de/img/eva3s2lowwxl9j.png
http://abload.de/img/eva3s2high4fa8f.png

and this lost detail or get really dark when deband is enabled

http://abload.de/img/eva3s1off93ado.png
http://abload.de/img/eva3s1lowlxzfy.png
http://abload.de/img/eva3s1highc1z64.png
I see. Yes, "high" does lose detail in certain situations. But it also smooths out heavily banded gradiants very nicely. I guess I wouldn't recommend to enable "high" by default for all content. I do aim to have "low" work as a default option, without eating away any detail worth mentioning. Might need some tweaking...

It should be "1024p60" or perhaps "1024p59" to get ~59,93Hz. Anyway you only enter vertical resolution.
You can enter horizontal resolution as well, if you like, if there are different horizontal resolutions available for the same vertical resolution.

For shaders to work when using madVR with a C# application (WinForm or WPF) and using a managed interop like Directshow Lib, you'll need to either :

* have DirectX 9c installed
* or have D3DCompiler_43.dll located in the same folder as your executable.
See? I told you... :p

Question guys... If I am playing a 1080p video at 1080p native res... Is madvr doing anything "more" than other renderers? /excluding smoothmotion, deinterlace
As was already mentioned, chroma is upscaled in any case. However, the quality gain can vary between invisible to noticeable, depending on the content, and what your display is doing internally (e.g. does it maintain the full resolution of 4:4:4 input or not).

There are other benefits to madVR you can get with 1080p video at 1080p native res. You already mentioned smoothmotion and deinterlacing. There is also: Full control over decoding matrix and primaries, calibration, high bitdepth processing with dithering as the last step, and fullscreen exclusive mode with multiple pre-rendered frames (which improves playback reliability). More features to come soon, like debanding, for which is a test version already is available.

Is that what you want? The last one is the picture I use to test deblock filters because when this kind of filter is too high, it blurs the details on the ground.
Thanks, some of these should be helpful.

Heavy.
Heavy indeed. Thanks, Ron.

-------

Could use some more samples with light blocking. There are 2 different cases of light blocking:

(1) Only a few artefact blocks spread over the frame, but with hard edges.
(2) Big parts of the image covered in blocks, but the block edges are only barely visible.

Could use samples for both. Thanks!

[THX-UltraII]

Morguh Madshi,

I m thinking about getting the AMD 7950. Will this card give me perfect playback with madVR?

If so, am I right that I need to do:

1. set madVR to 0-255
2. set LAV filters to output 'same as input'
3. set nvidia output range to full range (does this need a registry fix or something or will it work with the most recent drivers 'out-of-the-box'?)
4. set nvidia input to 0-255
5. set my display to FULL RANGE

Any other things I need to config like settings in the nvidia control panel? Also, the LAV video filter has got a lot of boxes you can check with the input formats. Which do I select there? Only RGB32 and RGB24 and leave the rest unchecked?

[Zachs]

@madshi

using 86.11 i'm getting green colourspace(?) being shifted by about 32 pixels vertically. Switching back to EVR the video renders correctly.

Example here (I found it via google - no idea what the source is or whether it is a legal file):
http://www56.zippyshare.com/v/68759153/file.html

The same also happens with some of my HDTV records (one particular channel).

[StephaneM]

See? I told you... :pAnd I was listening :D

Though, I'll restate that it would have been nice to know that this dependency existed :sly:

There are other benefits to madVR you can get with 1080p video at 1080p native res. You already mentioned smoothmotion and deinterlacing.
Speaking of deinterlacing, I have not extensively tested everything but how is done this deinterlacing? From what I can read here madVR forward the request to deinterlace to the GPU (so DXVA deinterlacing)?

I'm wondering because I still find (for my personal HTPC use) that using a Cyberlink codec + EVR + DXVA2 with DXVA deinterlacing set to auto is what gives the best result : that is you will never ever see a comb effect (Note : this is on AMD GPU for DVB Broadcasted content)

With madVR sometimes I can clearly see comb effect (mainly on things that doesn't move as sharp objects like static text on commercials). Though it is vastly superior as not having madVR handling deinterlacing and leaving it to LAV filters (for instance, I don't see major issues with tickers : they look sharp and not blurry as hell like with some other deinterlacing techniques)

So I'm wondering if it's my fault : I'm the source filter, so I'm the first filter in the graph that is giving a media type, though I do not update this media type while the graph is flowing (I always thought that the video decoder should take this responsibility)

[ryrynz]

drmpeg, did I really need to see that? Just a link to the file or heaven forbid a thumbnail.. My eyes..

[drmpeg]

drmpeg, did I really need to see that? Just a link to the file or heaven forbid a thumbnail.. My eyes..
The blocks or Miley?:)

Ron

[huhn]

Morguh Madshi,

I m thinking about getting the AMD 7950. Will this card give me perfect playback with madVR?

If so, am I right that I need to do:

1. set madVR to 0-255
2. set LAV filters to output 'same as input'
3. set nvidia output range to full range (does this need a registry fix or something or will it work with the most recent drivers 'out-of-the-box'?)
4. set nvidia input to 0-255
5. set my display to FULL RANGE

Any other things I need to config like settings in the nvidia control panel? Also, the LAV video filter has got a lot of boxes you can check with the input formats. Which do I select there? Only RGB32 and RGB24 and leave the rest unchecked?
leave everything as it is. the worst you can do is to force rgb output in lav.

3. set nvidia output range to full range (does this need a registry fix or something or will it work with the most recent drivers 'out-of-the-box'?)


with nvidia you mostlikly need a tweak. very easy tweak.

4. set nvidia input to 0-255

just leave everything to "with the video player settings"

Do you recommend to get a dedicated GPU? If so, which brand supports FULL RGB out for sure? NVIDIA or AMD?
you got a hd 2000 and it work right ?

a 7950 is a total over kill but do as you please.

[THX-UltraII]

Thanks for your reply huhn.

Ok. So no need in lav to specifically DISable any of the checkboxes?

Can you point me in the right direction for the nvidia tweak?

You told me my Intel card transforms to ycbcr which is bad. So i just picked up a amd for this reason. Also, there has been too many reports about problems with the FULL/LIMITED output of Intel and I just want to be sure all works fine.

[romulous]

Are we talking about LAV Video Decoder? If so, I think it's probably nevcairiel's job to fix this. At least I'd ask him first. If he says it's my problem, then I'll look into it.

I was using LAV Video, yes. But LAV+EVR works fine, it is only the combination of LAV+madVR that does not work correctly. That to me says it's a madVR problem, especially as you have had to fix menu issues with madVR in the past. I know people have provided DVD menu samples here on Doom9 in the past, I just don't know how they do it.

[Werewolfy]

Could use some more samples with light blocking. There are 2 different cases of light blocking:

(1) Only a few artefact blocks spread over the frame, but with hard edges.
(2) Big parts of the image covered in blocks, but the block edges are only barely visible.

Could use samples for both. Thanks!

I tried to capture some scenes with lighter blocking, I hope that's what you're looking for. They're generally on the roof, the walls, the hairs or dark areas. I don't know why but the ratio on screenshots from DVD is not respected but I think it doesn't change anything for you.

http://imageshack.us/a/img4/5966/qhjt.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/qhjt.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img706/6029/cfdv.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/cfdv.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/9905/z1qs.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/z1qs.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img594/5466/k6ks.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/k6ks.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img801/9716/bp2m.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/bp2m.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7215/oxip.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/oxip.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img34/3919/rij0.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/34/rij0.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img837/7488/uqtq.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/uqtq.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img833/47/sn61.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/sn61.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img585/3230/1s2z.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/1s2z.png/)

[madshi]

I m thinking about getting the AMD 7950. Will this card give me perfect playback with madVR?
Generally, the 7950 sounds powerful enough to do almost anything madVR currently does, as long as your output solution is limited to 1080p. If you need 4K output, that changes a lot of things, but it also depends on the framerate. But then there are also new algorithms coming to madVR in the near and far future, so what is fast enough today might not be fast enough in the future, if you want to make use of all new algorithms. But I don't know myself.

Speaking of deinterlacing, I have not extensively tested everything but how is done this deinterlacing? From what I can read here madVR forward the request to deinterlace to the GPU (so DXVA deinterlacing)?

I'm wondering because I still find (for my personal HTPC use) that using a Cyberlink codec + EVR + DXVA2 with DXVA deinterlacing set to auto is what gives the best result : that is you will never ever see a comb effect (Note : this is on AMD GPU for DVB Broadcasted content)

With madVR sometimes I can clearly see comb effect (mainly on things that doesn't move as sharp objects like static text on commercials).
In theory madVR should produce the same output as EVR, as long as you use the default settings. If you force madVR into film mode, everything changes, though, in that case you'll get IVTC. Which should work very nicely for all film based sources, but you will get really bad results for native video content.

With DVB content and madVR default settings, are those combing artifacts perfectly reproducable? Do they happen the same way at the same frame, every time you try? Or do they change? If you can perfectly reproduce such problems, it would be helpful to get a sample, so that I can look into it.

I'm not sure if the source filter can have an effect on deinterlacing. Normally I would expect the video decoder to decide, in combination with the video renderer. But I only see this from the view point of the video renderer, so I don't know for sure whether the video decoder might behave differently, depending on what the source filter might do. It might make sense to double check this with a different source filter. Or to make it easier, with MPC-HC, just to double check whether it's a problem with madVR or something else...

I was using LAV Video, yes. But LAV+EVR works fine, it is only the combination of LAV+madVR that does not work correctly. That to me says it's a madVR problem, especially as you have had to fix menu issues with madVR in the past. I know people have provided DVD menu samples here on Doom9 in the past, I just don't know how they do it.
It's been quite a while that I looked into anything like this. But from what I remember, LAV does most of the work and madVR only very little. Whether it works with EVR or not has nothing to say. I still think it's more likely that this needs to be fixed in LAV. I might be wrong, but I think nevcairiel has more experience with DVD menu problems, so it would be better to let him look into it first.

using 86.11 i'm getting green colourspace(?) being shifted by about 32 pixels vertically. Switching back to EVR the video renders correctly.

Example here (I found it via google - no idea what the source is or whether it is a legal file):
http://www56.zippyshare.com/v/68759153/file.html

The same also happens with some of my HDTV records (one particular channel).
Works fine here with both LAV Video Decoder and the internal madVR video decoder. Which decoder are you testing with? Probably a bug with that decoder.

I tried to capture some scenes with lighter blocking, I hope that's what you're looking for. They're generally on the roof, the walls, the hairs or dark areas. I don't know why but the ratio on screenshots from DVD is not respected but I think it doesn't change anything for you.
This is *extremely* light blocking. These might still be useful, to check that nothing goes too much wrong. But in many of those images I have a hard time finding the blocking even when zooming in. Do you maybe have something a bit stronger? So that you can see the blocks without zooming in, but only just?

Thanks!

P.S: The Aspect ratio is good that way, if you would correct it, the blocks wouldn't be 8x8, anymore.

[Werewolfy]

This is *extremely* light blocking. These might still be useful, to check that nothing goes too much wrong. But in many of those images I have a hard time finding the blocking even when zooming in. Do you maybe have something a bit stronger? So that you can see the blocks without zooming in, but only just?

Thanks!

P.S: The Aspect ratio is good that way, if you would correct it, the blocks wouldn't be 8x8, anymore.

Ok here it's a little easier to spot.

http://imageshack.us/a/img34/2682/qmn.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img443/1843/981a.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/981a.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/5052/k8sk.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/7848/hnui.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/hnui.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img209/4141/6ggz.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/6ggz.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img543/1365/sjdn.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/sjdn.png/)

[huhn]

Thanks for your reply huhn.

Ok. So no need in lav to specifically DISable any of the checkboxes?

no

Can you point me in the right direction for the nvidia tweak?

You told me my Intel card transforms to ycbcr which is bad. So i just picked up a amd for this reason. Also, there has been too many reports about problems with the FULL/LIMITED output of Intel and I just want to be sure all works fine.
yeah intel is a big truble maker i get limited rgb with my pc monitor...

there is a file called madNvLevelsTweaker.exe in the madvr folder just use that.

[THX-UltraII]

I thought that that tool is only for nvidia.

What is THE best PQ algorithm to use for 1080p when sending out 1080p to my projector? (I ll stay with 1080p outputting for now and let my vw1000 do the 4k upscaling)

[StephaneM]

In theory madVR should produce the same output as EVR, as long as you use the default settings.Well in this case I'm having an issue, but I'm not sure whose fault it is.

Here are my observations:

I use MPC-HC (to rule out issues with my own software), on an AMD graphic cards (fairly old on my dev machine a HD 4600) on Windows 8.


DVB MPEG2 SD Interlaced content with LAV Auto for deinterlacing and set to DXVA2 (native) on EVR : Deinterlacing is Ok (though LAV reports avcodec as the decoder used)

DVB H264 HD Interlaced content with LAV Auto for deinterlacing and set to DXVA2 (native) on EVR : Deinterlacing is Ok (LAV reporte dxva2n as the decoder used)

DVB MPEG2 SD Interlaced now with madVR (automatic deinterlacing selected): Deinterlacing is Ok

DVB H264 HD Interlaced now with madVR (automatic deinterlacing selected): Deinterlacing is not Ok (i would say it's done twice : resulting in heavy stuttering)


So there is a little issue here with deinterlacing when using madVR because I cannot choose a settings in madVR or LAV that will work for everything and use DXVA interlacing.

The same thing happens when I use my own software (which doesn't set any interlaced information on the media type, as I don't use a VIDEOINFOHEADER2 at all, I only set the avg frame rate)

With DVB content and madVR default settings, are those combing artifacts perfectly reproducable? Do they happen the same way at the same frame, every time you try? Or do they change? If you can perfectly reproduce such problems, it would be helpful to get a sample, so that I can look into it.Yes it is perfectly reproducable. Though I'm not always sure that DXVA deinterlacing is used. I'll send you a screenshot of the issue I'm seeing if I can verify that this is happening while madVR is using DXVA deinterlacing.

I'm not sure if the source filter can have an effect on deinterlacing. Normally I would expect the video decoder to decide, in combination with the video renderer. But I only see this from the view point of the video renderer, so I don't know for sure whether the video decoder might behave differently, depending on what the source filter might do. It might make sense to double check this with a different source filter. Or to make it easier, with MPC-HC, just to double check whether it's a problem with madVR or something else...It may have an effect because the source filter have to expose the media type for the video decoder. This is somehow difficult for me to provide this information as I'm using the DVB tables to identify the content of the streams and it seems that the interlacing nature of the video is not one of the thing I can found in a video stream descriptor.

[huhn]

I thought that that tool is only for nvidia.

What is THE best PQ algorithm to use for 1080p when sending out 1080p to my projector? (I ll stay with 1080p outputting for now and let my vw1000 do the 4k upscaling)
rules: Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively.
Can you point me in the right direction for the nvidia tweak?

yeah ...

[THX-UltraII]

My bad: i bought a AMD (7950) and not a NVIDIA card.

Ok, so what you recommend for algo for 1080p content?

[madshi]

Ok here it's a little easier to spot.
Thanks, these should help.

I use MPC-HC (to rule out issues with my own software), on an AMD graphic cards (fairly old on my dev machine a HD 4600) on Windows 8.


DVB MPEG2 SD Interlaced content with LAV Auto for deinterlacing and set to DXVA2 (native) on EVR : Deinterlacing is Ok (though LAV reports avcodec as the decoder used)

DVB H264 HD Interlaced content with LAV Auto for deinterlacing and set to DXVA2 (native) on EVR : Deinterlacing is Ok (LAV reporte dxva2n as the decoder used)

DVB MPEG2 SD Interlaced now with madVR (automatic deinterlacing selected): Deinterlacing is Ok

DVB H264 HD Interlaced now with madVR (automatic deinterlacing selected): Deinterlacing is not Ok (i would say it's done twice : resulting in heavy stuttering)

There are 3 possible causes that are coming to my mind right now:

(1) Maybe deinterlacing is not activated, for some reason? Please activate the madVR debug OSD (Ctrl+J). It should tell you whether deinterlacing is active or not. If it's not active, you can force it active by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D multiple times.

(2) Maybe the field order is detected incorrectly? You can change it by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F.

(3) Maybe your GPU is too slow for the settings you've chosen? In the madVR debug OSD look at the number of dropped frames. Does it increase all the time? If so, try using "Bilinear" for chroma and image scaling as a quick test.

If the problem is not any of these things, maybe you can upload a sample for me to look at.

My bad: i bought a AMD (7950) and not a NVIDIA card.
Actually, unlike Intel and NVidia, AMD usually offers a limited/full switch in the GPU driver control panel. So AMD does this better than NVidia and Intel, and that's why the madNvLevelsTweaker tool isn't even needed for AMD users. I think the switch is called "pixel format" or something like that. Set it to full range (0-255) or whatever it is called.

[StephaneM]

(1) Maybe deinterlacing is not activated, for some reason? Please activate the madVR debug OSD (Ctrl+J).It is active. If I deactivated in madVR video is Ok (it is deinterlaced and playing smoothly)

(2) Maybe the field order is detected incorrectly? You can change it by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F.No doesn't change anything

(3) Maybe your GPU is too slow for the settings you've chosen? In the madVR debug OSD look at the number of dropped frames. Does it increase all the time? If so, try using "Bilinear" for chroma and image scaling as a quick test.There is indeed an impact when changing the downscaling (when I do tests, it's always windowed and so HD video is downscaled).

When I use Nearest Neightbor / Bilinear nothing changes : video stutter badly and madVR reports dropped frames (GPU load 70%), but it doesn't feels like dropped frames.

When I use DXVA2 : video is fine (GPU load 40%)

When I use anything from Mitchell-Netravali to SoftCubic : video is fine (GPU load from 50% to 90%)

When I use anything from Lanczos to Spline : video is not fine (GPU load 90%++), though I think it's because the GPU is clearly overloaded (it looks like normal dropped frames)

Changing chroma upscaling does nothing.

Note : Deinterlacing add approx. 40% of GPU load.

So GPU load explains some of it. Though I do not understand why the video IS deinterlaced even if I turn off deinterlacing in madVR (I can confirm that the video is interlaced)... It's confusing to say the least...

[madshi]

How did you confirm that the video is interlaced? And did you disable deinterlacing in LAV Video Decoder, too?

[StephaneM]

How did you confirm that the video is interlaced?
I load the video into VLC and disable any deinterlacing in VLC and I see comb effect.
And did you disable deinterlacing in LAV Video Decoder, too?
Yes in LAV for AMD there is no options to turn on / off hardware interlacing (And of course I do not turn on YADIF software interlacing). Field order is set to Auto / deinterlacing mode is set to Auto

Note : if I set deinterlacing mode to Disabled (progressive) in LAV it doesn't change anything for H264 HD (they seems deinterlaced), while for MPEG2 SD video are not deinterlaced when played back

Oh and I can also confirm that there is no other filters in the graph that would deinterlace without notice (graph = source / splitter / video decoder / renderer)

[madshi]

Probably VLC is doing something weird/wrong then? I don't know. Normally if a clip looks clean with deinterlacing turned off, that means that it's a soft-telecined movie file. I can look at this, if you want. If so, just upload a small sample with which I can reproduce the combing with VLC. Then I can tell you what's going on with that file.

[StephaneM]

Probably VLC is doing something weird/wrong then? I don't know. Normally if a clip looks clean with deinterlacing turned off, that means that it's a soft-telecined movie file.It's not movie content, it's regular broadcast content (when I do the same thing in VLC with broadcasted movie, yes there is no comb effect so that's ok)

I can look at this, if you want. If so, just upload a small sample with which I can reproduce the combing with VLC. Then I can tell you what's going on with that fileNo it's fine the problem was me :D the content is not always interlaced, so I was fooled by looking at the wrong spots in the stream, and the info reported by madVR OSD...

So the only confusing thing really is a combination of factors : LAV settings that makes you think hardware deinterlacing is not possible with AMD GPU, and the fact that even with bilinear the problem seems to be with the deinterlacing (wether the content is really interlaced or not).

What difference there is between bilinear and softcubic ? Are they applied at a different time in the rendering pipeline, that may explain what I'm seeing.

[madshi]

I'm not sure why you would have problems with bilinear but not with SoftCubic. Usually it's the other way round. Bilinear is ultra-cheap, SoftCubic consumes quite a bit more resources. So something is weird here. Have you been testing in windowed mode or in fullscreen exclusive mode? The latter is usually more reliable...

Could it be possible that you changed the scaling settings to bilinear in the wrong section? E.g. you changed it for upscaling instead of downscaling or something like that? A stupid question, I know, but I don't remember any other user having reported anything like this in the last couple of months. Usually bilinear (or nearest neighbor) has always worked better on slow GPUs than anything else, according to anything users have reported so far.