madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

this is well known and you should clip it the spec is as it is for a reason.

these are just mastering "error" left over.

the mastering monitor that was used to look at that was clipping that.

[flossy_cake]

this is well known and you should clip it the spec is as it is for a reason.

these are just mastering "error" left over.

the mastering monitor that was used to look at that was clipping that.

Yeah maybe. But then again it's called "super white" or "whiter than white" , so I feel like it is some kind of intended feature. That guy Classy Tech (renowned calibration industry guy, see his YouTube channel) recommends calibrating to 16-255 that's why you might hear recommendations of Contrast 38 instead of 48 for Samsung QDOLEDs cause 38 shows the 235-255 range and 48 clips at 235 (when sending a limited range signal over HDMI , or playing that AVSHD709 pattern thought the TVs internal media player).

But I still think you could be right and there's not much meaningful information there in the 235-255 range, that's why I wrote I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Also why the FLIPPING HECK is HDR *still* using LiMiTed RanGe holy hell an analogue bodge from the 1950s is *still* dictating and stealing a good chunk of the signal. Super depressing.

[huhn]

math you "need" to use limited range.
number outside of 16-235 16-240 are many but that doesn't mean they are outside after conversation.
16-235 is just a name but more is used.

red 255 is bigger then 240 cb. limited range ycbcr is the right choice.

yes let's put 16-235 16-240 16-240 into 16-235 16-235 16-235...
no i'm not going to look that up...

[flossy_cake]

It's still a waste of code values. Wasting 15% of the code values, and leaving us with ugly analogue era BS for another generation. The whole reason they put it on that 16 step pedestal is cause analogue era equipment had trouble detecting low voltages on the wire near zero. This has no place in HDR over a HDMI/DP interface. And on top of this they are wasting more code values by hard coding each value to a nits value. The nits should be in metadata like the gamut, matrix, levels, MaxCLL etc. and use the whole 10bits full range all the time regardless. But whatever, it still looks good and works fine, it's just "bad practice"

[flossy_cake]

yes let's put 16-235 16-240 16-240 into 16-235 16-235 16-235...
no i'm not going to look that up...

I looked it up just now, it says chroma still centered at 128 for 4:2:0 full range

[huhn]

lossy compression doesn't care no one stops you from sending full range RGB over HDMI DP. so it is not wasting them.

maybe itp can do full range to RGB properly ycbcr can not.

hard coding each value is good for calibration and makes stuff just work.

what is windows supposed to do with dynamic brightness metadata actually changing what the values mean and the windows desktop at the same time this is just massive processing overhead for no gain same for end devices.

[huhn]

I looked it up just now, it says chroma still centered at 128 for 4:2:0 full range

i'm not going into that this is wrong you can put 241 in 16-240 you can not put 256 in 0-255 there are also 2 full range ycbcr and no meta data to keep them apart never use it.

AI will tell you that but it can do simple math...

[flossy_cake]

Just spent 3 hours pulling my hair out over black flashes during playback in dx11 mode. It was some gsync bug in NVCP — enabling gsync in NVCP, then turning it back off again fixed it. Bugged NVCP setting.

Also beware that NVCP will override the media players power profile (in relation to forcing max clocks). eg. I often have notepad++ open and NVCP sees it's open and applies notepad++'s power mode even tho it is minimised and isn't a 3d graphics app.

[purplebaby]

Is Nvidia Super Resolution not supported in MadVR?

What video output mode should be used in MPC-HC for a decent Super Resolution result?

[flossy_cake]

Is Nvidia Super Resolution not supported in MadVR?

What video output mode should be used in MPC-HC for a decent Super Resolution result?

I don't think it works with madVR , I think you would have to switch to MPC Video Renderer and set both it and LAV decoder to dx11 mode. Or so I'm told.

[huhn]

if you want a decent result you are not using nvidia "super resolution".
that term means something else for video but nvidia is been nvidia.

last time i checked you have to disable 10 bit enable the utterly broken nvidia processor and you will get a totally destroyed image as a thank you.

[NeonPhoenix]

Anyone know how to make MadVR work with Nvidia Smooth Motion? Smooth motions shows up as active, but the fps stays the same.

[purplebaby]

if you want a decent result you are not using nvidia "super resolution".
that term means something else for video but nvidia is been nvidia.

last time i checked you have to disable 10 bit enable the utterly broken nvidia processor and you will get a totally destroyed image as a thank you.

Well... I want a way to AI-upscale very old videos with low resolution and low bitrate. AI upscaling is often impressive, in my experience. It sure beats the old non-AI methods.

[Siso]

Well... I want a way to AI-upscale very old videos with low resolution and low bitrate. AI upscaling is often impressive, in my experience. It sure beats the old non-AI methods.

How exactly does it beat them? With artificial sharpening and denoise?

[huhn]

ai in that case means neural network so nnedi3 back in the days was already "AI".

just use NGU sharp with the custom and free denoise and dewhatever function which is also a neural network so "AI".
and you even have full control of what you do.

[NeonPhoenix]

What are the best options for frame interpolation on pc since svp is not free anymore?

[Siso]

What are the best options for frame interpolation on pc since svp is not free anymore?

Use madvr's smooth motion.

[NeonPhoenix]

Use madvr's smooth motion.

No its not frame gen

[Siso]

No its not frame gen

Why do you need it anyway?

[Damien147]

Good for pron:D

There's also Bluesky Frame Rate Converter (https://bluesky-soft.com/en/BlueskyFRC.html) if you have AMD or Intel GPU.

[NeonPhoenix]

Why do you need it anyway?

24 fps is too low, i wanted it for frame interpolation

[huhn]

so this wasn't good enough or what'S going on now?
https://github.com/HopperLogger/HopperRender

[Siso]

24 fps is too low, i wanted it for frame interpolation

If you want it for movies, movies are 24 fps and that's it. Any other manipulation is artificial (soap opera effect).

[strumf666]

Fell free to enjoy the original 24fps, there is a lot of us that prefer higher fps.

[strumf666]

so this wasn't good enough or what'S going on now?
https://github.com/HopperLogger/HopperRender
Tried it and seems to work well enough after setting the scene change to ~1000ms. It is quite gpu intensive had to lower the chroma upscaling to NGU medium from very high to avoid frame drops (4k hdr-passthrough 23.976 source on 120Hz display amd 6900xt). I found one issue though, it conflicts with madvr display mode matching when the interpolation is set to off.
edit: the issue has been fixed.

[NeonPhoenix]

so this wasn't good enough or what'S going on now?
https://github.com/HopperLogger/HopperRender

I asked about the best frame interpolation methods on reddit, but nobody mentioned this. Thanks a lot, I’ll give it a try and share my experience.

[NeonPhoenix]

so this wasn't good enough or what'S going on now?
https://github.com/HopperLogger/HopperRender

I'm looking for something that does the same thing SVP + Rife does, HopperLogger seems more like low quality smooth motionish. I don't use SVP because it's not free anymore, is there any free tool that will get the job done like svp with rife?

[RealSnoopyDog]

I suggest to create a new thread because this is not related at all to madVR

[kirakami]

AMD Fluid Motion Frames and Nvidia Frame Generation/Smooth Motion and Super Resolution should be natively supported by every video player and renderer with enable/disable options to properly support High Hertz Monitors so you don't experience the slide show motion and judder on panning shots in 23.976 fps videos.

[huhn]

no they are not...
it is not meant for this anyway.

[flossy_cake]

I use RIFE in avisynth for realtime usage , not as part of SVP but just standalone .avs file played directly in MPC-HC with DirectShow LAV opening the .avs file and then LAV as the source filter in Avisynth:


# Decode the source with LAV
source="C:\video.mkv"
audio = LWLibavAudioSource(source, stream_index=-1, cache=false)
video = LWLibavVideoSource(source, stream_index=-1, cache=false)
AudioDub(video, audio)

# Set multithreading mode 1 - I get much better GPU util on my 3060 with this mode, see http://avisynth.nl/index.php/SetFilterMTMode
SetFilterMTMode("RIFE", 1, true)

# Convert to RGB 32bpc full range as required by RIFE. Dithering not required - have tested on 8 bit grey ramp
z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="RGBPS", colorspace_op="709:709:709:limited=>rgb:709:709:full").Prefetch(1)

# Double the frame rate using fast model 23 (rife-v4.6_ensembleFalse - https://github.com/Asd-g/AviSynthPlus-RIFE)
RIFE(factor_num=2, factor_den=1, model=23, gpu_thread=2).Prefetch(4)

# Convert back to YUV 4:2:0 8bpc limited range
z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="YV12", colorspace_op="rgb:709:709:full=>709:709:709:limited").Prefetch(1)

__END__



As huhn has mentioned, scenechanges are a real problem, especially if you do more than double frame rate interpolation such as 24->60 the scenechanges look AWFUL since there are multiple interpolated frames across the scenechange.

Just doing a frame rate doubling is not *too* terrible. I can still see it though, for 1/60th or 1/48th of a second you get a single frame like this interpolated across the scenechange:

https://i.imgur.com/qpkvTVS.png

So my next Avisynth project will be shoehorning my own better scenechange detection which I've already worked on over the last couple of years in a separate project. But it depends if RIFE plays nice with Avisynth's ScriptClip (I suspect it might not given how heavy RIFE is)

By default RIFE disables scenechange detection, and if you enable it with sc=true it appears to be just using "if Average Y changed by more than 12% then it was a scenechange frame" which is bad as it can trigger false positives on fast pans and that causes jerks because interpolation is disabled for scenechange frames. Shows like Top Gear with fast dramatic pans are often stuttering on those fast pans due to scenechange false positive. It's probably better to just leave RIFE's scenechange detection disabled unless you are doing 24->60 then you will really need it as otherwise the scenechange interpolation will occur over several frames (several warped/distored frames in a row like the one above)

RIFE interpolation quality is very good though, the lowest amount of artefacting I've ever seen in an algorithm including consumer TVs! For example it can handle complex hand gestures quite well without noticeable distortions. However you need a powerful GPU, the most my 3060 can manage is a 1440x1080p24 -> p48 scenario. For older 480p30/576p25 content it smashes through it easy due to the lower res, I'm using it on some crappy 480p30 transcode of Roseanne sitcom cause that show was shot at 60i and the end result looks faithful imo.

__________________________________________________________________

Just a comment about MadVR's "1 repeat frame every..." stat on ctrl+J - this appears to be reporting how long it would take for an entire source frame to be repeated from the perspective of the source file rate, not from the perspective of the monitor refresh rate.

eg. for a 59.94fps file played at 120.0hz, MadVR reports 1 repeat every 16.66 seconds but actually there are 2 duplicates during that 16.66 second period - one every 8.333 seconds. A minor quibble though.

[NeonPhoenix]

I use RIFE in avisynth for realtime usage , not as part of SVP but just standalone .avs file played directly in MPC-HC with DirectShow LAV opening the .avs file and then LAV as the source filter in Avisynth:


# Decode the source with LAV
audio = LWLibavAudioSource(source, stream_index=-1, cache=false)
video = LWLibavVideoSource(source, stream_index=-1, cache=false)
AudioDub(video, audio)

# Set multithreading mode 1 - I get much better GPU util on my 3060 with this mode, see http://avisynth.nl/index.php/SetFilterMTMode
SetFilterMTMode("RIFE", 1, true)

# Convert to RGB 32bpc full range as required by RIFE. Dithering not required - have tested on 8 bit grey ramp
z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="RGBPS", colorspace_op="709:709:709:limited=>rgb:709:709:full").Prefetch(1)

# Double the frame rate using fast model 23 (rife-v4.6_ensembleFalse - https://github.com/Asd-g/AviSynthPlus-RIFE)
RIFE(factor_num=2, factor_den=1, model=23, gpu_thread=2).Prefetch(4)

# Convert back to YUV 4:2:0 8bpc limited range
z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="YV12", colorspace_op="rgb:709:709:full=>709:709:709:limited").Prefetch(1)

__END__



As huhn has mentioned, scenechanges are a real problem, especially if you do more than double frame rate interpolation such as 24->60 the scenechanges look AWFUL since there are multiple interpolated frames across the scenechange.

Just doing a frame rate doubling is not *too* terrible. I can still see it though, for 1/60th or 1/48th of a second you get a single frame like this interpolated across the scenechange:

https://i.imgur.com/qpkvTVS.png

So my next Avisynth project will be shoehorning my own better scenechange detection which I've already worked on over the last couple of years in a separate project. But it depends if RIFE plays nice with Avisynth's ScriptClip (I suspect it might not given how heavy RIFE is)

By default RIFE disables scenechange detection, and if you enable it with sc=true it appears to be just using "if Average Y changed by more than 12% then it was a scenechange frame" which is bad as it can trigger false positives on fast pans and that causes jerks because interpolation is disabled for scenechange frames. Shows like Top Gear with fast dramatic pans are often stuttering on those fast pans due to scenechange false positive. It's probably better to just leave RIFE's scenechange detection disabled unless you are doing 24->60 then you will really need it as otherwise the scenechange interpolation will occur over several frames (several warped/distored frames in a row like the one above)

RIFE interpolation quality is very good though, the lowest amount of artefacting I've ever seen in an algorithm including consumer TVs! For example it can handle complex hand gestures quite well without noticeable distortions. However you need a powerful GPU, the most my 3060 can manage is a 1440x1080p24 -> p48 scenario. For older 480p30/576p25 content it smashes through it easy due to the lower res, I'm using it on some crappy 480p30 transcode of Roseanne sitcom cause that show was shot at 60i and the end result looks faithful imo.

__________________________________________________________________

Just a comment about MadVR's "1 repeat frame every..." stat on ctrl+J - this appears to be reporting how long it would take for an entire source frame to be repeated from the perspective of the source file rate, not from the perspective of the monitor refresh rate.

eg. for a 59.94fps file played at 120.0hz, MadVR reports 1 repeat every 16.66 seconds but actually there are 2 duplicates during that 16.66 second period - one every 8.333 seconds. A minor quibble though.

Could you provide an installation guide please? I failed to make it work after 2 hours of chatting with claude.

[flossy_cake]

Could you provide an installation guide please? I failed to make it work after 2 hours of chatting with claude.

I don't know if it's worth it for you because I also use an ahk script to automatically generate an avisynth script for each video file otherwise you'd have to manually make a script for every video file which is not really practical

It might be better in your case to use CrendKing's avisynth directshow filter (https://github.com/CrendKing/avisynth_filter) which inserts avisynth between LAV Video Decoder and MadVR in the directshow graph. In that case you can omit the first 3 lines of the script cause it's already getting the source from directshow LAV

CrendKing's filter can be added manually in MPC-HC under external filters -> add filter. Then to test its working you can set the script to Text("hello world") to overlay those words on top of the video.

But if you don't want to use CrendKing's filter (cause it's kind of a hack and is not really the orthodox way that avisynth is intended to run) instead get klite "full" (https://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm) (which is MPC-HC + MadVR + LAV decoders) and then install avisynth (https://github.com/AviSynth/AviSynthPlus/releases) (get the one with _vcredist.exe otherwise it wont work if you dont have that dependency...that one cost me a few hours of hair pulling recently :))

Then make a new text file called test.avs and inside it write Version() and that will create a small video clip that prints the version of avisynth installed to confirm its working

https://i.imgur.com/WR56Xfl.png

[kirakami]

I wish there was a version of motion interpolation for mpv and mpc-be that simply detects panning shots in videos and smoothens it while rest of the video plays as if no interpolation has been applied.

[Ilovetv9]

https://imgur.com/a/QvBKPrdhttps://imgbox.com/ph2NMZrP (https://imgbox.com/ph2NMZrP)

Using mpc-hc or mpc-be, updated Test Build 208 madvr settings window now uses widescreen rectangle instead of previous v0.92.17 square traditional settings window. This - https://imgbox.com/ph2NMZrP - screenshot is how new madvr settings window displays using 4:3 CRT pc monitor. See how the sides are cut off? Dragging window edges to resize seems disabled. Is it possible to edit/change madvr settings window size/ratio in any way possible? Would madvr author consider in future update adding the ability to edit/change settings window size or changing settings window to square 4:3 ratio when crt monitor is selected - ironically in the settings window?

[huhn]

your resolution is just below the minimum the option screen needs that's it 4:3 has nothing to do with that.

if tone mapping should ever get toned in it will go back to the normal factor anyway.

it also can not just switch it needs that size.

[Presently42]

I *think* this is a bug: changing the televisor's edid info via cru results in madvr crashing when in the identification and display modes settings. I suspect it's because I've added two other extension blocks so I can get all 16 custom resolutions; and madvr doesn't like this. I include the log: https://pastebin.com/w7StaZFs

I'd just use the report bug feature, but it wants a desktop email client, which I'ven't got

[huhn]

add it to the pile: https://bugs.madshi.net/my_view_page.php

[mclingo]

Hi, not been here for a while, i'm guessing we are still on test build 208 so nothing has been fixed, still getting glitchy playback here on my AMD RX7800XT sadly, never found a way to fix it. Probably once or twice per TV episode and 3 per move I get a momentary hang, been having to use other players where HDR doesnt look anywhere near as good :(

[PimpUigi]

Hey there, I'm using MadVR Build 208, and even though I'm checking the boxes to Report BT.2020 to the display, and selecting the Drop Down box for This Display is Calibrated to BT.2020 I get the status of:

HDR 4000 nits, BT.2020 -> DCI-P3

I'm using a Z95B, so I don't think I really need to compress the color down to DCI-P3.
It won't change whether I select Passthrough HDR or Tone Map HDR.
So is this the only thing that status can say? It can't change to HDR 4000 nits, BT.2020 ~~-> BT.2020~~ ??
Or am I missing something and need to set a different setting?

[huhn]

that's just the file saying it is DCI P3 in bt 2020.
the output and internal colorspace are not shown in the OSD.

[clsid]

New beta 209 (https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector-no-support-questions.2954506/page-978#post-64441866) of madVR.

[JarrettH]

Wow, I think I'll update to this from 0.92.17. I wasn't into all the 3 month time limits.

[pirlouy]

So he was aware of a problem with HAGS and it could be mitigated by renderer/app ! It's not an isolated problem.
I don't feel like reporting it to affected apps.

[huhn]

there ware massive problems with windows dwm.

[YxP]

HAGS problem seems to be fixed, yay. 10bit colour works for about 30 seconds and then everything gets a sepia filter, but can't complain really, finally something new!

[EDIT]

Looks like Windows 11 tries to apply some sort of LUT to the picture, since activating "override to reference mode" in Nvidia colour settings prevents this from happening. I have no idea if this is a MadVR problem so I'm not going to report a bug.

[clsid]

Report bugs in the AVSForum thread or on Madshi's bug tracker (http://bugs.madshi.net/view_all_bug_page.php). You can use the debug build of madVR to generate logs.
Now is the time to get bugs fixed. Once Madshi puts his attention back on Envy, it might take another year for a new madVR update.

[strumf666]

Not much difference, if any, with 10bit output on win11/amd graphics card; usually a restart is required if any apps have been opened before movie playback.

[huhn]

this is supposed to be fixed and i never saw that on amd.

edit: no my original report is with AMD. what so ever you should report that.

[JarrettH]

maybe madshi will catch up with the last 1k pages when he left here :devil: