madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[HillieSan]

I have a GTX 1080 in another PC. Is it worth to use this card or should I wait to replace the RC 480 with a GTX 3060 ti in the HTPC?

[tp4tissue]

All we know is Madshi currently only has the time for Nvidia.

Nvidia is the only option going forward. But don't buy a top tier card Today, it won't really do anything.

1060 6gb for ultrabudget, next up is 1080Ti, Skip the 2xxx series all together, if you play vidya, 3080.

And this might be an unpopular opinion, but NGU is NOT Madvr's most useful feature, even though it consumes the most Processing power..

[chros]

Let me guess what that is: 3dlut?! ;)

[HillieSan]

What about the GTX 1080 (not Ti)? Will that be a step up? I am asking, because I don't want to disassemble my PCs whereas it may be better to wait for a GTX 3060 Ti.

[ryrynz]

1080 is great, a good step up. 3060ti would be even better and nice for AV1 decoding. I recommend moving the 1080 across it has enough chops for most of the high quality options.

[laz1989]

Helo guys.
I have missed this video hobby for some years and seems I missed tons of things like HDR.
So recently I did a new righ since I'm running on Intel from 2003 I said to switch to an AMD rig.
This are my specs:
Amd Ryzen 7 1700x 3400
Amd Radeon RX 580 8GB
16GB DDR4
Dell S2721QS HDR

So my problem is that I can't play any 4k Video in HDR with MadVR or any DDS filter. I tried almost every solution I found on this forum and nothing.
The thing is, if Irun via VLC or PotPlayer ( default ) which uses ffmpeg if I'm correct, HDR is working. But MadVR doesn't even want to enter on exclusive mode. Just windowed fullscreen.Normally I would use PotPlayer and live like this but I saw what MadVR can do and I really want to continue my old setup MPC-HC , LAV, MADVR.
Thank you!

[HillieSan]

4K and HDR should work. I use the RX 480 with MPC BE + madvr + lav filter. All set to RGB 10 bit or higher. It’s basically a passthrough.

[tp4tissue]

Let me guess what that is: 3dlut?! ;)

In order of most awesome:

#1 3DLut :D
#2 HDR Tonemapping :cool:
#3 3Dlut
#4 3Dlut
#5 3Dlut
#6 3Dlut
#7 3Dlut
#8 3Dlut
#9 3Dlut
#10 Ngu

[tp4tissue]

What about the GTX 1080 (not Ti)? Will that be a step up? I am asking, because I don't want to disassemble my PCs whereas it may be better to wait for a GTX 3060 Ti.

Anything below the 3080 doesn't really have enough ray-tracing performance for current / later games.

That's the gaming aspect.

If Madvr is the deciding factor, we simply do not know what's coming or if anything is coming at all, it's impossible to base purchase decision on it.

[tp4tissue]

Dell S2721QS HDR


That's an IPS monitor. Don't watch movies on an IPS monitor, it's a waste of time, and disrespectful to Cinematographers. :D

it has 1200:1 contrast, at its peak brightness, 380nits, the black point is 0.32 nit. For even remotely acceptable shadow detail, you need somewhere around 0.05nit blackpoint.

HDR movies basically look like giant grey blobs on IPS.

[el Filou]

It's the cinema projector experience at home! Just need to get very close to the screen! :D
More seriously, if that's the only display you have it's still better than not watching movies at all.

@laz1989 you need to add more information: OS version, driver version, settings used in madVR (bit depth, presentation settings, etc.), does it work if you switch HDR manually in Windows beforehand?

[tp4tissue]

It's the cinema projector experience at home! Just need to get very close to the screen! :D
More seriously, if that's the only display you have it's still better than not watching movies at all.

@laz1989 you need to add more information: OS version, driver version, settings used in madVR (bit depth, presentation settings, etc.), does it work if you switch HDR manually in Windows beforehand?

Agree it's better than nothing. Arguably still better than projectors which have at best 300-500:1 Ansi in professional outlets.

The other option is calibrate IPS to 60nit peak, watch HDR movies in the closet.

[laz1989]

4K and HDR should work. I use the RX 480 with MPC BE + madvr + lav filter. All set to RGB 10 bit or higher. It’s basically a passthrough.

It works on Netflix, it works on ffmpeg but not on DirectShow.

[el Filou]

Post a screenshot of madVR's OSD during playback (Ctrl+J) on an external image hosting site.
Are you using the latest version of LAV Filter?

[laz1989]

Post a screenshot of madVR's OSD during playback (Ctrl+J) on an external image hosting site.
Are you using the latest version of LAV Filter?

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRPYPtSC/1.png

Yes, I installed windows a few days ago when I did the rig.
I tried also with D3D11 at begin on Lav Filter after that I switched to DCXA with same result.

[HillieSan]

Anything below the 3080 doesn't really have enough ray-tracing performance for current / later games.

That's the gaming aspect.

If Madvr is the deciding factor, we simply do not know what's coming or if anything is coming at all, it's impossible to base purchase decision on it.

Very true. I am not interested in ray-tracing but I care about
parallel computing and shaders for madvr. To get more out of madvr. One member once wrote that madvr is deprecated. I think he is right. I have looked at the Envy proposition and I think that madvr is history. Litofsky is not interested in us, in this segment, and he will not allow any development in madvr. Sure we should ask him to be sure. I feel sad and I am not alone here.

Anyway, madvr is still doing a great job.

[huhn]

how old is the last madVR beta a week?

[Manni]

how old is the last madVR beta a week?

Yes and there is another one coming soon.

[mrbinky]

Yes and there is another one coming soon.

When was the last non-beta release?

[VBB]

9-29-2018

[HillieSan]

Good to hear that there is a recent beta. This doesn’t mean it is not deprecated. I can’t find the beta in this thread nor on Madshi’s website. It’s still version 0.92.17 to me. What is the purpose of these betas, have we become solely guinea pigs for Envy? When can we expect version 0.93.0? Can the first page of this thread refer to the betas? These questions float in my mind.

It’s just my perception and I am hoping for the good old days when new versions are announced. Otherwise, I would appreciate a business model that makes envy affordable for us, instead of trying and discussing betas.

[VBB]

madshi is only active at AVS these days. This is the thread with the ongoing development: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/ - It focuses almost exclusively on HDR-to-SDR tonemapping. You can find the latest beta here: http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure114.zip - If you need older betas, simply replace the last digit(s) in that link, i.e. *113.zip.

[HillieSan]

Good to hear that there is a recent beta. I will check it out.

I have replaced my RX 480 for a GTX 1080 and it works good. I need to do more testing this weekend.

[JaylumX]

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRPYPtSC/1.png

Yes, I installed windows a few days ago when I did the rig.
I tried also with D3D11 at begin on Lav Filter after that I switched to DCXA with same result.

How did you get Disney+ to use Madvr?

[ryrynz]

How did you get Disney+ to use Madvr?

:D Strike!

[chros]

In order of most awesome:

#1 3DLut :D
#2 HDR Tonemapping :cool:
#3 3Dlut
#4 3Dlut
#5 3Dlut
#6 3Dlut
#7 3Dlut
#8 3Dlut
#9 3Dlut
#10 Ngu
:D :D :D You made my day!
madshi is only active at AVS these days.
You mean the last 2 years, right? :D

[laz1989]

How did you get Disney+ to use Madvr?

Unfortunately Disney didn't think would be important to put my country on their map aswell.
And as Star Wars fan, I would cut one of my balls to watch anything releated.
I'm not sure why this has something to do with that but if you wanted to know, that's it.

[el Filou]

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRPYPtSC/1.pngCheck in madVR config => rendering => trade quality for performance if "don't measure HDR frame peak luminance" maybe is checked and uncheck it if it's the case.
Also try disabling HDR in the OS and let madVR do the switching using AMD's API.
I have no other ideas.

[clsid]

That screenshot says "HDR, unknown properties".

That means the file does not have proper HDR metadata, or that something has gone wrong in the filter chain.

madVR will then use a default value, which may not give good results.

[tp4tissue]

@laz1989,

You don't want to use HDR passthrough. That monitor has the same peak nits in both SDR and HDR modes. It makes no sense to let this monitor do its own HDR tonemapping, Especially if it means losing Chroma resolution to do it. It's no where near as good as Madvr's tonemapping.

Use v113 Madvr, then set it to tonemap to 380nits, for your monitor set highlight recovery set to the highest setting. Make sure you're setting the monitor to the highest brightness setting.


For 10 bit, you need to follow my 10bit testing guide a few pages back. If your monitor actually does a goodjob with 10bit then that might be a go. But this isn't absolutely necessary

[Michael2907]

Can soneone give ne the Link to the latest build?

Gesendet von meinem SM-N960F mit Tapatalk

[VBB]

Please go back one page to find what you're looking for. Thanks!

[kostik]

Can soneone give ne the Link to the latest build?

Gesendet von meinem SM-N960F mit Tapatalk

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure114.zip

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/page-486#post-60235595

[Michael2907]

Thx a lot

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[tp4tissue]

How y'all feel about 114.. It basically looks the same except for those very saturated scenes, and not sure I'd notice on a TV, at very low brightness like projection, it'd be more important.

[SamuriHL]

Hoping to see 115 soon with a few more saturation options and HOPEFULLY a metadata override. That would allow us LG OLED owners to try some stuff. As for saturation on a higher nit display, as we explained in the AVS thread, it DOES impact us. If you're trying to display 4000 nits on a screen with even 1000 nits available, you're compressing. That compression is where the problems with saturation arise. Even for us.

[richardsim7]

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure114.zip

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/page-486#post-60235595

Is it as simple as copying those files into your current 0.92.17 madVR directory and overwriting when prompted? Or is it more involved than that? (uninstall/install for example)

[VBB]

Yes, you extract and overwrite. If you need to replace it with an older version, you do the same.

[richardsim7]

Yes, you extract and overwrite. If you need to replace it with an older version, you do the same.

Is there any way to confirm the build number? The settings still say 0.92.17, I would have assumed it would say 0.92.114 or something like that

[VBB]

There isn't. You'd have to compare the dates of the executables.

[richardsim7]

There isn't. You'd have to compare the dates of the executables.

Fair enough, thanks :)

Last thing, any central changelog? Or is it a case of looking through the 500+ pages on the AVS thread? :D

[SamuriHL]

A lot of reading, yes. And I'd not recommend going into that post and saying "hey I'm new here how do I set this up". Look for NeoXP's posts where he posts his settings and start from there. In the previous couple pages of that thread he posted his latest settings. Adapt them to your liking.

[tp4tissue]

A lot of reading, yes. And I'd not recommend going into that post and saying "hey I'm new here how do I set this up". Look for NeoXP's posts where he posts his settings and start from there. In the previous couple pages of that thread he posted his latest settings. Adapt them to your liking.

The thing I don't understand about neo-XP and the other recommended setting is , How exactly, are the qualifications made.

How are they establishing right/ wrong, if none of them have access to a panel that could come remotely close to the director's intent ? Unless one of them does own an x300/hx310/cg3145

Or is the test case the same as off-the-street focus groups where you pick a bunch of guys, and ask um , hey this look good to you ?

[huhn]

i give you a hint.
playing a movies for 1000 nits at 100 is not the creators intent.

[ryrynz]

Or is the test case the same as off-the-street focus groups where you pick a bunch of guys, and ask um , hey this look good to you ?

If the people in the focus groups had hundreds or even thousands of hours of experience viewing content and calibrating then yes this would be accurate.
I think you might be severely misjudging the level of experience you're observing in that thread :D

[SamuriHL]

Exactly. These are people that madshi trusts. They aren't just some random people off the street. I tell people to start with neoxp settings because he understands how madvr works on a very intricate level. But he's also using a 400 nit panel which is why I tell people to start with his settings, not directly copy them and walk away. Nonetheless there are times that madshi doesn't agree with them. The saturation issue is one of those times right now. What ends up happening in those cases is compromise.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[tp4tissue]

Does neoxp have a videography background ?

@Ryrynz, I'm not against the concept of self-taught expertise, But how is the process validated, when the person involved does not have access to reference systems.

I'm not dumping on the guy, I just want to understand on what are these recommendations set on.

I agree, what has come out looks aight to me, and often nicer than the dolbyvision renditions I've seen on mine and other lcds.


For example, paraphrase from madshi, " look how a 10000nit projector would look ". If you've never seen a 10000nit projector or a 10000nit panel, or 4000nit pulsar panel, or a 1000nit lmcl panel, How is this --Look-- determined.

I'm going to paint a picture of this rabbit, something I've never seen. I might get close with 2 big ears on a mouse, but I'm missing alot of rabbit-subtleties no ?

[SamuriHL]

madshi approaches it from a scientific perspective, which is why they are having trouble coming to a conclusion on the saturation issues. By following the math and standards, madshi wants to get as close to possible at reproducing the image that a 10000 nit display would show. Obviously NO ONE knows what that looks like as to my knowledge such a device doesn't exist. And when we finally do get to higher nit screens, we'll find out just how close (or not) we actually are. There's discussion of Javs and madshi renting/buying a mastering HDR display to test some of this on. Because right now, even madshi is working off assumptions. And those assumptions could turn out to be wildly inaccurate down the road. Personally I don't get so hung up on this. To me, what madvr provides with the settings I have is vastly superior to what the LG tonemapping gives me in passthrough. Can I quantify which one is more "correct"? No. if I had to place bets? My bet has been on madvr and will continue to do so.

But to answer your question of "how can they know".....the answer is, they can't.

[mclingo]

Exactly. These are people that madshi trusts. They aren't just some random people off the street. I tell people to start with neoxp settings because he understands how madvr works on a very intricate level. But he's also using a 400 nit panel which is why I tell people to start with his settings, not directly copy them and walk away. Nonetheless there are times that madshi doesn't agree with them. The saturation issue is one of those times right now. What ends up happening in those cases is compromise.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

hi please can you post a link to NEOXP's settings, its impossible to find anything in that thread, the main page is never updated with the lastest madvr version either which is also annoying as there doesnt seem to be a beta link on MADSHIs web site either.

[chros]

I'm going to paint a picture of this rabbit, something I've never seen. I might get close with 2 big ears on a mouse, but I'm missing alot of rabbit-subtleties no ?
I agree. It is all BS. Just like with calibration, they aim for pleasing image, and that's fine.
I mean it's good that they try to go for a scientific way, but the problem is that there's no real standard to follow, even standards change in time (see HDR diffuse white)... It's all BS :)
Do you like what you see? Then use it. If you don't then don't.
And that's why I joke recently about "direcror's intent", if something is out in DV then you have to watch it that way. That's the closest we can get :) Everything else is BS.