madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[nsnhd]

I have now a full 10-bit path madVR-GPU(gtx 1060)-Display(4k monitor). Is there any disadvantage which I have to pay attention to ?

[ryrynz]

No inherent disadvantages, just most panels are better off fed 8-bit.

[totalz]

This might be off-topic a bit, wondering if I can enable logging by MadVR to help me debug random hdmi signal loss issue. ATM, I cannot pin point the device/component that's causing the problem. Apparently, there's no Windows event to indicate there's a Windows problem, but I can't say I have much confidence in M$ either.

So any advice on debugging the issue is appreciated. HDMI cables are checked, no problem there.

[nsnhd]

In general, does the extra 2-bit processing affect rendering time, upscaling refinement, artifact removal, HDR tone mapping etc. ? Making them better or worst, regarding madVR, inside the GPU and the display ?

[Asmodian]

No, madVR always works with 16 bit surfaces internally and using 32 bit math. It dithers to the output bit depth as the very last step.

[nsnhd]

So, can I assume that output from madVR is the same, the rest is how the GPU and the display process and output 10-bit.

[el Filou]

It's really hard to notice a difference in real content between madVR's 8-bit and 10-bit output especially in motion, so if you do then yes, it's the GPU or the display.

[glc650]

Does anybody else have issues with frame smoothing where the credit crawl at the end of movies flickers?I do. Soon as I turn smooth motion off it goes away.

[stefanelli73]

I own an AMD 5700XT, but I can't see GEMINI MAN with Madvr tone mapping, even by lowering the CHROMA UPSCALING to CUBIC, I can only see it in hdr pasthrough, where the rendering drops to 12ms ... has someone with my same video card found a solution?

[mclingo]

what exactly do you mean you cant see it, if you are just getting a black screen?

[el Filou]

Gemini Man is 60p. Probably means that the 5700 XT isn't powerful enough for tone mapping at 60 fps.

Apart from setting highlight recovery to off, checking the boxes related to HDR in 'trade quality performance' is an option, but at that point you'll probably get better quality with passthrough anyway.

[stefanelli73]

@EL FILOU
Thanks, however I solved by clicking on COMPROMISE ON HDR TONE & GAMUT MAPPING in TRADE QUALITY FOR PERFORMANCE and in CHROMA UPSCALING I can also leave on NGU SHARP MED

[ryrynz]

Is that trade off worth it? does NGU low allow you to not compromise on this? Or perhaps changing the chroma to Lanczos or bicubic instead? I'd recommend looking at the video to decide what's best for you.

[QBhd]

I just test Gemini Man with my 5700XT... yeah, Tone Mapping is definitely a no go. I refuse to use any trade quality settings... so pass-through is the best option (for my tastes). I just setup a quick and simple hdr profile and now I am set for the very rare 60 FPS HDR content out there.

QB

[stefanelli73]

I just test Gemini Man with my 5700XT... yeah, Tone Mapping is definitely a no go. I refuse to use any trade quality settings... so pass-through is the best option (for my tastes). I just setup a quick and simple hdr profile and now I am set for the very rare 60 FPS HDR content out there.

QB


I don't agree, I saw the film both in PASSTHROUGH HDR and with Madvr's TONE MAPPING with the addition of a calibration in SDR DCI-P3 and sincerely watching the film with tone mapping is much better .... then with COMPROMISE ON HDR TONE & GAMUT MAPPING there is only a slight difference in colors that are a little less saturated, so I don't see what the problem is

[stefanelli73]

Is that trade off worth it? does NGU low allow you to not compromise on this? Or perhaps changing the chroma to Lanczos or bicubic instead? I'd recommend looking at the video to decide what's best for you.


On a 5700XT the only way to watch GEMINI MAN with Madvr tone mapping is to click on COMPROMISE ON HDR TONE & GAMUT MAPPING, if it is left disabled, even by lowering the CHROMA UPSCALING to CUBIC, or excluding HIGHLIGHT RECOVERY, the rendering will always be high .... or the other way is to use the PASSTHROUGH HDR

[chros]

Is it with d3d11 native in Lav?

[QBhd]

yes...

and I guess I should also say that I output to a 4k OLED (C8) so I don't "need" the tonemapping as much. It's easy for us with HDR displays to forget most users don't have this and need to tonemap to SDR or very low nits.

QB

[nsnhd]

Based on feedback that how amazing madVR tone mapping is, I've chosen a Non-HDR display at a very good price.

[stefanelli73]

Is it with d3d11 native in Lav?

yes....

[Siso]

I noticed something little strange today, using NGU AA low for chroma, and image doubling with NGU Sharp medium, the render queue stays most of the time 7-8/8, but sometimes it shows 6-7/8. I'm using 3440x1440p display, the card is gtx 1050 ti. Rendering times are ~ 21 ms.

[huhn]

this can be ignored.

[nevcairiel]

As long as you don't actually get any dropped frames, fluctuations in the queue are just normal operation.

[mclingo]

I don't agree, I saw the film both in PASSTHROUGH HDR and with Madvr's TONE MAPPING with the addition of a calibration in SDR DCI-P3 and sincerely watching the film with tone mapping is much better .... then with COMPROMISE ON HDR TONE & GAMUT MAPPING there is only a slight difference in colors that are a little less saturated, so I don't see what the problem is


Hi, There is a bug for all 5700 users at the moment, AMD HDR API is broken and not sendin BT2020 colour space to HDR tv's, this is likely why you are seeing unsaturated colours?

Turn on windows HDR, then Switch to passthrough and untick meta data in MADVR and have another look, can you report back what your see.

thanks

[mclingo]

after 7 years of excellent work my intel 2700k is finally going out to pasture (ebay) - i'm upgrading to a ryzen 5 3600, however i'm sure i've heard some issues about ryzen and video output / madvr etc, anyone know of any issues I need to be wary of with MADVR?

[stefanelli73]

Hi, There is a bug for all 5700 users at the moment, AMD HDR API is broken and not sendin BT2020 colour space to HDR tv's, this is likely why you are seeing unsaturated colours?

Turn on windows HDR, then Switch to passthrough and untick meta data in MADVR and have another look, can you report back what your see.

thanks


the slightly unsaturated colors are due to the COMPROMISE ON HDR TONE & GAMUT MAPPING function, which I repeat is forced to click to take advantage of the madvr tone mapping at 60hz .... with the PASSTHROUGH HDR I do not need to click on COMPROMISE ON HDR ... . for 60hz and the colors are correct, even using the Windows API.
The only difference I found between the AMD and the Windows API is that the latter is brighter .... but I always use Madvr tone mapping for 23.976 and 24hz, the vision is better with the addition also of a calibration in SDR DCI-P3

[huhn]

the trade for quality option has no effect on path through.
the point of path through it that the image is not touched and you get different results depending on the API which shows there is clearly an issue.

[oldpainlesskodi]

after 7 years of excellent work my intel 2700k is finally going out to pasture (ebay) - i'm upgrading to a ryzen 5 3600, however i'm sure i've heard some issues about ryzen and video output / madvr etc, anyone know of any issues I need to be wary of with MADVR?

Don't know if they are that similar, but I have no issues using Ryzen 7 3700x, obviously with a discrete GPU.

[huhn]

why should a CPU create issues with video output?
that's not how it works.
it's not effect the video driver in any way it is not effecting the video output in any way.

[mclingo]

I just thought I'd read somewhere there was an issue, glad to be wrong.

[stefanelli73]

the trade for quality option has no effect on path through.
the point of path through it that the image is not touched and you get different results depending on the API which shows there is clearly an issue.

that TRADE QUALITY FOR PERFORMANCE option, has no effect on the hdr passthrough I also know for what I have specified that I have used it for the tone mapping of madvr

[el Filou]

What mclingo meant is that there is/was (?) a bug affecting RX 5700 users, where if madVR itself switches the card to HDR mode, it then outputs Bt.709 colour space instead of Bt.2020, so the image is seriously (not slightly) undersaturated.
If you did not encounter this issue when you used passthrough and let madVR do the switch then it means something is different on your RX 5700 system, or the bug has been fixed.

[oldpainlesskodi]

The bug is still there in the latest 20.1.2 drivers.

[DMU]

it then outputs Bt.709 colour space instead of Bt.2020, so the image is seriously (not slightly) undersaturated.

Minor fix:
It then outputs Bt.709 colour space flag instead of Bt.2020, so the image is seriously (not slightly) undersaturated. If on your TV you can forcefully select BT.2020 color space, then the image will be normal.
AMD APU with Vega iGPU has same issue.

[mclingo]

Hi,this is rough representation of what I am seeing with RX 5700 bug, beginning of bladerunner 2049

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij75edbautjSVhll3yw?e=nM5M1Y

[Asmodian]

Yes, that looks like what I would expect from that bug.

[WuNgUn]

Man!
On a Plex media group on Facebook...
People trying to tell me their Firestick is a better renderer than a decent HTPC with MadVR/LAV upscaling, etc played thru Jriver MC or equivalent....
Some people's kids...

[DMU]

Hi,this is rough representation of what I am seeing with RX 5700 bug, beginning of bladerunner 2049

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij75edbautjSVhll3yw?e=nM5M1Y

I would say a too much rough representation. In reality is not so scary.:)

[mclingo]

yes, its not quite as bad as that, its not far off though, those red gloves look orange on my system as well as washed out.

[WuNgUn]

Do you have to be in YCbCr/YUV format to subsample chroma data? I heard RGB doesn't support it...

[Asmodian]

Yes, subsampling chroma requires having the chroma separate from the luma.

RGB has these concepts mixed together, changing R (or G/B) changes both the chroma and the luma values. The chroma is Cb and Cr (color information) while the luma is Y (black and white information). Subsampling the chroma is simply resizing the Cb and Cr channels to 960x1080 (422) or 960x540 (420) for nominally 1920x1080 video.

YCbCr is an odd concept, originally developed to make color TV signals backwards compatible with black and white TVs (well it is the digital version of YUV, the analog version of this concept). You could make red and blue half the resolution of green for a similar (but much worse) kind of subsampling but no hardware actually supports such a terrible quality option. Doing the matrix math to first convert to YCbCr is definitely worth it if you want to subsample.

[Milez7494]

I've used MadVR for a while now and noticed it's not been updated in a while.

I'm not asking when the next update is going to come out but does anyone know what the status of the project is? Madshi doesn't look like he's posted here since the last update.

Genuinely curious since MadVR appears to be a very popular piece of software. It's strange that the developer would go nearly a year without letting the community know what's going on (I'm not saying that we're entitled to this or that Madshi owes us anything).

[clsid]

He is still working on it. He was just very busy with another project as well. You can expect a new version sometime in the coming months with a cool new advanced dynamic tonemapping algorithm. You can follow development details on another forum. (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-285.html)

[leeperry]

any idea why on W7/HD7850/1080p60 DVI any kind of NGU is now randomly running in B&W when using FS(E or not), windowed is fine and also any other kind of doubler. I haven't changed anything :o

[SirMaster]

I've used MadVR for a while now and noticed it's not been updated in a while.

I'm not asking when the next update is going to come out but does anyone know what the status of the project is? Madshi doesn't look like he's posted here since the last update.

Genuinely curious since MadVR appears to be a very popular piece of software. It's strange that the developer would go nearly a year without letting the community know what's going on (I'm not saying that we're entitled to this or that Madshi owes us anything).

There have actually been 113 (plus a few extra) beta builds of madVR since the last official release as madshi has been aggressively tweaking and improving the HDR to SDR tone-mapping.

He doesn't want to do an official release until it's all just right.

[Magik Mark]

Guys,

Can you help me create a profile that would do the ff:

If video has letter box and black bar width will not fit 2 rows of subtitle then move image to top and subtitle to the bottom of the screen
else move subtitle to the bottom of the screen only

[huhn]

madVR doesn't know how big the subtitles are

and even if madVR could do that it would mean the image could be moved alot why would you want that.

just move it to the top all the time this way the image doesn't move from time to time.

[Wilmar]

Hi everyone!
I can’t make HDR work properly with madVR and PotPlayer + 4K HDR-capable TV.
I enabled HDR in madVR settings – screenshot (https://i.imgur.com/0j55G89.png).
My MadVR settings config is here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_ElvCWSDIMAIyPlnN328od9qza6b_mFr).
The TV says it’s getting HDR image. However, the colours don’t look HDR at all. Moreover, when played via the TV directly, the video looks properly. But playing it via the PC results in faded, dull and dark image.
I tried enabling and disabling Windows HDR – to no avail.
Here’s what PotPlayer says about the video with Windows HDR enabled and disabled respectively.
No Windows HDR (https://imgur.com/z0sOTXr)
Windows HDR (https://imgur.com/CYCsUZo)
Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks.

My configuration:
Windows 10 64 bit 1903
Nvidia Geforce 1080Ti (Driver ver. 441.87)
MadVR ver. 0.92.17
PotPlayer 1.7.18346

[clsid]

The screenshot shows "HDR: unknown properties", meaning it can't find the HDR metadata.

Use LAV Video decoder. Disable the internal video decoder and video processor in Potplayer.

[SirMaster]

Here is a question I always wondered.

On the "trade quality for performance page":

https://i.postimg.cc/prp3BTy5/trade_quality_for_performance.png

There is the option "scale chroma separately, if it saves performance".

Is this really lower quality? And why or in what way would it be lower quality when enabling the option? Why shouldn't we always have that option enabled?