madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Asmodian]

What about this? Can you explain more clearly? Thanks :)

The dithering and range options in LAV are only used when converting color formats. Since madVR supports all the color formats LAV never needs to convert them so those settings never do anything. :)

[70MM]

The anti ringing filter is in three places, under Image Inhancements, Artifact removal, and Upscaling Refinement.

If one is upscaling ripped BDs and other material to 4K through madvr and one wants to use anti ring which I supose most would.... which is the best of the three areas to turn on anti ringing if you are using some settings from all thre areas? At present I have it ticked in all three places, is that overdo, or does it create artifacts with all three on?

Also who uses Luma Sharpen and what is it actually used for?.... is it a good thing to use or does it add artifacts?

[huhn]

The anti ringing filter is in three places, under Image Inhancements, Artifact removal, and Upscaling Refinement.

it'S not the same anti ringing filter. a lot of scaler in image upscaling have anti ringing too.
so it is veery simple the anti ringing under image upscale lowers the ringing >created< by lanczos as an example. the anti ringing filter under artifact removal removes ringing from the source image and the anti rigning under upscaling refinement is removing ringing from the upscale refining filters.

If one is upscaling ripped BDs and other material to 4K through madvr and one wants to use anti ring which I supose most would.... which is the best of the three areas to turn on anti ringing if you are using some settings from all thre areas? At present I have it ticked in all three places, is that overdo, or does it create artifacts with all three on?
depends on the source if it has notable ringing in the source can use the anti ringing artifact removel.
if you use image refinement you may use anti ringing there too. so you see it depends.

you should ask your eyes. do you see a difference?

Also who uses Luma Sharpen and what is it actually used for?.... is it a good thing to use or does it add artifacts?

if you want to sharpen the image this is another option madVR gives. it very fast and can be used on nearly every GPU out there. and if the name isn't for fun there it is sharpening the luma channel.
is it artifact free? well it is changing the image so no it's is not artifact free.

[Gopa]

Why you prefer option 2 for movies? :)

Option 1: mid noise level/no dither pattern
Option 2: low noise level/mild dither pattern

To me, for movies, option 2, usually, looks a little better, than option 1 & ordered, usually, looks as good, if not better, than option 1. Ordered, is very fast. Option 1 & 2, are slower. I usually, just go with ordered, unless the image, is very poor quality. You have to decide, with your eyes, as we all have different eyes!

[Ver Greeneyes]

Another Windows 10 cumulative update came out, includes this note: Addressed a performance regression when users run full-screen Microsoft DirectX 9 games and applications. (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4051963)

[mclingo]

spent today doing a full clean install right up to DX fix mention above, I have a reasonable usable creators fall update system now.

I'm using KODI DS with MADVR v0.92.7, 8 and 9 still problematic for me but will test any new versions that come our way.

I have 3D working and also HDR passthru to my OLED TV, i've also managed to get reclock working properly now so i'm back to ZERO frame drops.

There is a caveat though, if you use FSE in KODI DS is makes HDR playback choppy, if you turn it off its ok even if I leave it turned on in MADVR itself.

So I'll leave FSE off in KODI DS and just use if for 3D MVC.

[ultrahd_hdr]

Another Windows 10 cumulative update came out, includes this note: Addressed a performance regression when users run full-screen Microsoft DirectX 9 games and applications. (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4051963)

tried the latest build(16299),still full screen issue + nvidia newer drivers with HDR persist.
rolled back to previous build.

[steakhutzeee]

Option 1: mid noise level/no dither pattern
Option 2: low noise level/mild dither pattern

To me, for movies, option 2, usually, looks a little better, than option 1 & ordered, usually, looks as good, if not better, than option 1. Ordered, is very fast. Option 1 & especially, option 2, are very slow. I usually, just go with ordered, unless the image, is very poor quality. You have to decide, with your eyes, as we all have different eyes!

When you say 'fast', what do you mean exactly?

[Asmodian]

When you say 'fast', what do you mean exactly?

Fast or slow is talking about the GPU Power required or rendering times.

However, I don't think ED1 and ED2 are different speeds? Ordered is very fast but random is a little faster still.

[steakhutzeee]

Fast or slow is talking about the GPU Power required or rendering times.

However, I don't think ED1 and ED2 are different speeds? Ordered is very fast but random is a little faster still.You talking about lav right? I was talking about madvr. I'm making confusion [emoji14]

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[Asmodian]

No, I was talking about madVR. :confused:

[Gopa]

Fast or slow is talking about the GPU Power required or rendering times.

However, I don't think ED1 and ED2 are different speeds? Ordered is very fast but random is a little faster still.

I just tested: random & ordered, were very close to identical speed & ED1 & ED2, were very close to identical speed. Random & ordered, were less than 2ms faster, than ED1 & ED2. I used to need every available ms, I could get, with a GTX1050, to get a little higher luma. I will have to look at differences, to see which dithering, looks best, with a GTX1070. Likely, will be dependent on source, so I will stick with, ordered, until I have time to look at some images. Other enhancements, like RCA & image refinements, are trickier to adjust & more important (for me). What does everyone else use for dithering?

[Siso]

I just tested: random & ordered, were very close to identical speed & ED1 & ED2, were very close to identical speed. Random & ordered, were less than 2ms faster, than ED1 & ED2. I used to need every available ms, I could get, with a GTX1050, to get a little higher luma. I will have to look at differences, to see which dithering, looks best, with a GTX1070. Likely, will be dependent on source, so I will stick with, ordered, until I have time to look at some images. Other enhancements, like RCA & image refinements, are trickier to adjust & more important (for me). What does everyone else use for dithering?

It is hard to determine the differences between ordered and error diffusion 1 and 2 :)

[cork_OS]

Ordered dithering is quite enough for me. Difference between OD and ED is only visible if display bit depth is below 8 bit.

[Gopa]

The anti ringing filter is in three places, under Image Inhancements, Artifact removal, and Upscaling Refinement.

If one is upscaling ripped BDs and other material to 4K through madvr and one wants to use anti ring which I supose most would.... which is the best of the three areas to turn on anti ringing if you are using some settings from all thre areas? At present I have it ticked in all three places, is that overdo, or does it create artifacts with all three on?

Also who uses Luma Sharpen and what is it actually used for?.... is it a good thing to use or does it add artifacts?

Artifact removal/reduce ringing artifacts = usually, a few ms GPU load. I seldom use this, because, NGU upscalers, do not seem to benefit, with this. I almost always activate, anti-ringing filter, with downscaling & sharpeners. I try to use the lowest possible anti-bloating strength, or none at all (blurs image). I really like, lumaSharpen, with anime. Not so much, with other sources. I try to avoid sharpeners, altogether, for non-anime & usually, just rely on higher luma/chroma settings. I use AdaptiveSharpen, only, occassionally, mostly, because I prefer LumaSharpen & too many sharpeners, can cause all kinds of weirdness. Thin edges, always, only with, anime. Soften edges, almost always, with anime & not so much, with other sources. Sharpen edges, if needed, usually, only with anime. Some people, seem to dislike sharpeners & some of us, love them. They tend to cause some blockiness, with non-anime sources, especially, with higher strength settings. Reduce compression artifacts, is my favorite, new madVR enhancement. High quality sources, should need, very few enhancements, if any.

[Gopa]

Ordered dithering is quite enough for me. Difference between OD and ED is only visible if display bit depth is below 8 bit.

Thank you. Must be placebo-effect, when I thought, ED2, looked better, than ordered, for non-anime. Lately, I have been dialing down, some enhancements. Not like, being on the edge of GPU overload, was making images, look better! I almost always, just use ordered, anyway. Turns out, that high, or very high NGU chroma, does not always look better, as well & I was using, way too many sharpeners! Less is more (better), is often, if not usually, the way to go, except for luma upscaling.

[steakhutzeee]

No, I was talking about madVR. :confused:I asked because you was talking about random dithering that is only in Lav. But I assume Im having a big confusion :/

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[planet1]

Dear madshi, in order to retain the superior HW acceleration features of my secondary GPU, would you consider implementing the following feature into madVR:


http://www.imghost.in/images/2017/12/03/madVR_feature_request.jpg

[MariaX9]

I asked because you was talking about random dithering that is only in Lav. But I assume Im having a big confusion :/

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There is also Random Dithering in MadVr.

[Sunset1982]

Dear madshi, in order to retain the superior HW acceleration features of my secondary GPU, would you consider implementing the following feature into madVR:

upload it to another site. It don't gets approved here soon.

[planet1]

:thanks:, for the hint Sunset1982 - it's been a long time since I roamed theses forums :o .

[fairchild]

I have a new question which started happening ever since I switched to a 4k TCL TV (55" S405). I can't for the life of me get MadVR to kick into FSE mode anymore. I wiped drivers and reinstalled fresh using DDU, I've tried multiple drivers. (currently using 17.11.1 WHQL drivers 64-bit on Windows7 64-bit) I even bought a new GPU, got me an XFX RX580 which has 8GB of RAM which is what I thought was the problem since my older Sapphire 7870 only had 2GB and going from 720p/1080p videos to 3840x2160 was not enough memory.

Basically when I try to go into FSE mode on MadVR, I just get a blank/black screen. The video keeps playing as does the sound as normal because the moment I hit escape to get out of FSE back to windowed, the video is still playing and everything is back to normal. I also have reset MadVR to default settings to no avail, blank/black screen when going FSE.

I'm kinda stumped atm. :thanks:

Update, I seemed to have remedied it by lowering the present queues to 4 from the default of 8. Not sure why that was causing a problem but there we go, back in business with FSE on my new 4k TV with MadVR!

[cork_OS]

Once I've accidentally turned off FSE. Surprisingly, I not only didn't die, but also get rid of dropped frames on FSE activation.

[huhn]

Update, I seemed to have remedied it by lowering the present queues to 4 from the default of 8. Not sure why that was causing a problem but there we go, back in business with FSE on my new 4k TV with MadVR!

i know AMD had problem before with present queues of 16 or something like that but that an "interesting" case.
older driver may work with bigger queues.

[jkauff]

Once I've accidentally turned off FSE. Surprisingly, I not only didn't die, but also get rid of dropped frames on FSE activation.
You also get the probably far superior seek bar of your favorite player instead of the rudimentary (to be kind) one in FSE. The one in MPC-BE has previews, which are very helpful.

[Soulnight]

If you use madVR and didn't mess with any other LAV settings you shouldn't mess with (like disabling any of the output formats in LAV), then they don't matter, since madVR supports high-bitdepth input formats.

Hi,
would it be possible to make dithering in Lavvideo Decoder as good or close to the one in Madvr?

I am asking because currently I use Bluesky FRC with AMD Fluid Motion to use frame interpolation of 4K 10bits 4:2:0 24p signal to 60p.
And the output of bluesky FRC in Madvr is only 8bits, as it seems that AMD Fluid Motion itself does NOT support 10bits.
BlueskyFRC convert P010 to NV12 using driver's function, BEFORE entering AMD Fluid Motion.

My target would be to have a high quality dithering BEFORE entering AMD Fluid Motion: for example in LAVVideo Decoder.

Right now, I can see random noise generated by the dithering method used by BlueskyFRC.
I also tried to deselect 10bits output in LAVvideo decoder in order to dither before in LAVvideo decoder before even entering Blueksy FRC.
However, the result is still not near as good, as when I feed the 10bits 24p signal directly to Madvr with ordered dithering selected there.

Thanks for the help.
Florian

[mclingo]

I have a new question which started happening ever since I switched to a 4k TCL TV (55" S405). I can't for the life of me get MadVR to kick into FSE mode anymore. I wiped drivers and reinstalled fresh using DDU, I've tried multiple drivers. (currently using 17.11.1 WHQL drivers 64-bit on Windows7 64-bit) I even bought a new GPU, got me an XFX RX580 which has 8GB of RAM which is what I thought was the problem since my older Sapphire 7870 only had 2GB and going from 720p/1080p videos to 3840x2160 was not enough memory.

Basically when I try to go into FSE mode on MadVR, I just get a blank/black screen. The video keeps playing as does the sound as normal because the moment I hit escape to get out of FSE back to windowed, the video is still playing and everything is back to normal. I also have reset MadVR to default settings to no avail, blank/black screen when going FSE.

I'm kinda stumped atm. :thanks:

Update, I seemed to have remedied it by lowering the present queues to 4 from the default of 8. Not sure why that was causing a problem but there we go, back in business with FSE on my new 4k TV with MadVR!

sounds like a similar setup to me, what do you need FSE for, MVC 3d?

[fairchild]

sounds like a similar setup to me, what do you need FSE for, MVC 3d?

I just always prefer to use FSE to not have issues with composition (sometimes it's 30hz which instead of the correct 60hz) when using windowed mode which creates huge issues when watching media. I know I can turn that off and do it in windows too, but sometimes that causes tearing. FSE usually is the best. I don't need to be staring at anything but the movie or show i'm watching, don't care about bells and whistles from the media player while I'm watching something :sly:

[Soulnight]

I'll move it up in the priority. It's really annoying that the functionality *seems* to be there, but simply doesn't work.
Thanks!
With a working "command line to execute when this profile is activated", you would open so many great features like:

1) calling a batch file to call a pre-programmed function with an Harmony Remote Control:
a) automatic switch between memory for SDR REC709 mode or SDR DCI-P3 mode (for use with HDR-SDR conversion) in the projector menu
b) automatic control of motorized masking system to the right position (169 /21/9)
c) control of lens memory

2) automatic overlock of the GPU for highly intensive profiles

And that's probably even only a fraction of all the stuff we could do with that.
:thanks:
Florian

[huhn]

could be dropped frames from syncing video with audio.
so you have to be more precise.

[huhn]

when frames are dropped what you see when it happens.
you say you have presentation glitches but by default madVR is using FSE which makes it really hard to get any.

[el Filou]

Dear madshi, in order to retain the superior HW acceleration features of my secondary GPU, would you consider implementing the following feature into madVR:

Select D3D render device (http://www.imghost.in/images/2017/12/03/madVR_feature_request.jpg)I think you should be able to get what you want another way: select the GPU you want to use with decoding in LAV copy back mode (D3D11 or DXVA2), and then LAV should use that one to decode and madVR render to the one that is used to display.

[Plutotype]

what info you need? :D

First of all, AMD has better 23.976 timing than Nvidia. Quick solution is to use Reclock and stay 32-bit with MPC-HC and madvr. Other solution is to create custom resolution for 23.976 in madvr.

[mclingo]

First of all, AMD has better 23.976 timing than Nvidia. Quick solution is to use Reclock and stay 32-bit with MPC-HC and madvr. Other solution is to create custom resolution for 23.976 in madvr.

i tried what i thought was everything with my GTX1050 before giving up and finally moving back to AMD rx550, just couldnt get rid of frame drops no matter which versions of drivers/madvr/lav etc, I also had custom res set and reclock.

Having issue with this myself now though with MVC3D but this runs on the CPU so I suspect microsoft have broken something in creators fall as i got zero frame drops before that.

[el Filou]

What OS are you using?
I have a quite old dual-core HTPC and I sometimes got two or three dropped frames or presentation glitches over a movie under Windows 10 due to background stuff using CPU or I/O unexpectedly (even with Windows Update service disabled).
I've now resorted to just manually disabling Internet access with a Start Menu shortcut on my HTPC when I watch a movie and I want it absolutely glitch-free, but obviously this isn't always possible in all situations.

[huhn]

try to change the nvidia power settings to adaptive and never use optimal.
and well... you play 23p file at 60 HZ ofcause you have judder.
give madVR SM a try.

well if that doesn't help i guess there is something in the background messing up your presentation.

[foozoor]

Hello madshi, are you going to release something today?

[Sunset1982]

i see micro stutter, depends how many dropped frames
I did a video (https://www.mediafire.com/file/7fl0cw0ivdejxaa/2017-12-03_21-27-57.mp4), from when the video starts to when it loses the first frames (drop at 45)
(maybe i'm wrong but looks like during all movie the video isn't smooth)
you are playing a 23,976 fps file at 60hz. you should ad 1080p23 at display resolutions tab to play it in original fps if your display supports it. if your display pnly supports 60hz, use smooth motion instead...

[mclingo]

manage to get most of my playback issues sorted but still having problems stopping movies, sometimes it takes agens to stop and it drops back to KODI DS ok or PC desktop if im using MP-BE, sometimes it stops and I lose HDMI handshake and I get a black screen but can get it back by performing a DEVCON reset which I have mapped to a key on my remote as it happens so often.

About 1 in ten times I crashes my pc to a black screen, pc still running but cant do anything with it, have to power cycle. Any ideas anyone?

win10 fall creators / ATI RX550

Edit: this problem is now fixed with KODI DS which has been update for the creators update.

[wushantao]

manage to get most of my playback issues sorted but still having problems stopping movies, sometimes it takes agens to stop and it drops back to KODI DS ok or PC desktop if im using MP-BE, sometimes it stops and I lose HDMI handshake and I get a black screen but can get it back by performing a DEVCON reset which I have mapped to a key on my remote as it happens so often.

About 1 in ten times I crashes my pc to a black screen, pc still running but cant do anything with it, have to power cycle. Any ideas anyone?

win10 fall creators / ATI RX550
same issue maybe？

check power management？

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1822264#post1822264

[Sunset1982]

nvidia power settings changed and tried sm. less better, but still glitch and dropped frames
1080? i have a 4k monitor o.o I tried 23hz (https://imgur.com/a/YYdyJ) but still dropped frames. or I need to set it from madvr?
edit: from here (https://imgur.com/a/gcElL)? I think it's right because it switch to 23hz but like I said, still dropped frames .-. i'm sad now, bought 1050ti just for madvr
edit2: after restart and with all programs closed, I watched an entire movie at 23hz and frames dropped only 4 time (i'll explain with random stats lol movie start with XX framed dropped like always - 1 drop 20+ 2 drop 20+ etc, at the end 90 in total), before restart the situation was worst, but I will play without any dropped frames, if is it possible lol

yes, thats the right option. A 1050ti is a bit low for 4k upscaling. Had a 1050ti too and changed to a 1070 because you can use more / better settings.

Some glitches or dropped frames at the start of a file are normal. Reset your stats after some seconds of playback by pressing "ctrl +r" and see if it happens after that.
What settings are you using for upscaling?

[Siso]

Try to put your card in prefer maximum performance for your player, to see how things go. I tried for my gtx 1050ti, adaptive, but it had rendering spikes, causing glitches and frame drop.

[Siso]

upscaling? i'm watching 4k movie with a 4k monitor.
like I said, frames dropped sometime after playback, no need to reset stats
btw I have default madvr settings



i'll try!
edit: tried, still dropped frames

what about frame repeated frames? with 60hz (https://imgur.com/a/GAr2Q)I have "1 frame repeat every XX" but 0 repeated frames lol with 23hz (https://imgur.com/a/Z2WZD)got some rf


What are your madvr settings, and are you using reclock or smooth motion?

[Siso]

default settings, no reclock/smooth. I just changed 2 thing: 10bit (https://imgur.com/a/O4ozv) and 23hz (https://imgur.com/a/gcElL)

Try to use reclock with 23hz, to test.

[mclingo]

I personally dont think you'll get rid of frame drops with NVIDIA cards at the moment, I chucked everything at at and moved back to AMD, I now only get frame drops on 3D MVC stuff but thats because its not hardware accelerated, all done on the CPU - using reclock 1.9.0.0

I also only use 1080p24 & 2160p24 modes, never 23p

[ashlar42]

I personally dont think you'll get rid of frame drops with NVIDIA cards at the moment, I chucked everything at at and moved back to AMD, I now only get frame drops on 3D MVC stuff but thats because its not hardware accelerated, all done on the CPU - using reclock 1.9.0.0

I also only use 1080p24 & 2160p24 modes, never 23pI beg to differ. On a lowly GTX660 (still 1080p plasma here) I get no frame repeats/drops for 23.976, 50, 59.94 frequencies (don't watch a lot of 59.94 stuff, it could be one drop/repeat every couple of days, according to madVR).

[mclingo]

I beg to differ. On a lowly GTX660 (still 1080p plasma here) I get no frame repeats/drops for 23.976, 50, 59.94 frequencies (don't watch a lot of 59.94 stuff, it could be one drop/repeat every couple of days, according to madVR).

might just be 4k systems with this issue then.

[Siso]

I personally dont think you'll get rid of frame drops with NVIDIA cards at the moment, I chucked everything at at and moved back to AMD, I now only get frame drops on 3D MVC stuff but thats because its not hardware accelerated, all done on the CPU - using reclock 1.9.0.0

I also only use 1080p24 & 2160p24 modes, never 23p

Zero dropped or repeated or delayed frames with GTX 1050Ti here ;)

[Asmodian]

might just be 4k systems with this issue then.

I don't get any dropped or repeated frames with a Nvidia Titan X (Pascal) on a 4K display.

[mclingo]

those with zero drops are you on the latest creators fall update?, if so what are your madvr rendering settings set to, which are ticked?

can someone screen shot with contrl J so we can see your settings and rendering times etc.