madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Octo-puss]

Ten thousands of dollars? What? Who's that aimed at and what for?

[SamuriHL]

The high end home theater owners who spend that much and more on high end projectors and other equipment. Currently those people are served by lumagen video processors. Madshi has a dream of building a competing product from mostly of the shelf components that allow any hdmi source device to be used as input with a custom version of madvr driving the output. Because he's working with known hardware and drivers he's able to control the output very well. Additionally he'll be building new tensor core based algorithms for the envy which will further separate it from any other video processor out there. There is a pro model that's around 7 grand. And the extreme model which will be around 12 grand. Obviously this is targeted at a different user base than those who build htpc around madvr. It remains to be seen what happens to madvr in the future.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[mclingo]

I predict ENVY will fail massively to sell the required numbers and they will be forced to drop to a software license at least alongside to recoup some of their costs. I can certainly understand why MADSHI took a punt on hardware but he should have just licensed MADVR and kept all the money himself, 99% of people currently using would pay for i'm sure and he could have even had basic, user and proc licensees with different access to algos and settings to ensure all price points were covered.

This may still happen.

[Octo-puss]

The high end home theater owners who spend that much and more on high end projectors and other equipment. Currently those people are served by lumagen video processors. Madshi has a dream of building a competing product from mostly of the shelf components that allow any hdmi source device to be used as input with a custom version of madvr driving the output. Because he's working with known hardware and drivers he's able to control the output very well. Additionally he'll be building new tensor core based algorithms for the envy which will further separate it from any other video processor out there. There is a pro model that's around 7 grand. And the extreme model which will be around 12 grand. Obviously this is targeted at a different user base than those who build htpc around madvr. It remains to be seen what happens to madvr in the future.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Wait, it's not targeted at businesses like, well, actual cinemas? Are you telling me someone would buy this as a home user? What the actual F?
Besides, even after reading the website I still don't understand what is it supposed to do. Doesn't a TV already produce a moving image?

[pistacho]

You know any alternative to madvr?
Any other render or player it can passthrough HDR correct

Thanks and regards

KODI v19 => https://kodi.tv/article/kodi-19x-matrix-alpha-1

[SamuriHL]

Wait, it's not targeted at businesses like, well, actual cinemas? Are you telling me someone would buy this as a home user? What the actual F?

Besides, even after reading the website I still don't understand what is it supposed to do. Doesn't a TV already produce a moving image?It's targeted at very high end home theaters. The kind of people who build a dedicated theater room with very expensive projectors. If you're familiar with what madvr provides then you know what envy can do. Only it does it with an hdcp compliant hdmi input. Meaning you can plug any source device into it and madvr will enhance it. Dynamic tone mapping, upscaling, etc all can be done to any source. These aren't purchased by an end user directly. They are sold through system installers and dealers. The kind of people who drop 50 to 100+ grand building their theater. To them 12 grand for a video processor that can tone map hdr to their projector from any source device is reasonable. No it's not a big market. And no there's zero overlap with the htpc community. Different markets entirely.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[SirMaster]

I mean I see people buy $9000 anamorphic DCR lenses for their ~$7000 JVC projector just to gain 38% brightness and make the pixel density a little smaller.

Surely a $7000 or $12000 video processor is not out of the question for all the befits its can do for the image. I think an Envy is certainly a better investment than an a-lens.

Let alone those using $25K+ projectors, etc.

[SirMaster]

KODI v19 => https://kodi.tv/article/kodi-19x-matrix-alpha-1

Man, I really wish the Kodi people could somehow support madVR through their video player.

DSPlayer is really getting dated now stuck on Kodi 17.6

I know you can do an external player with Kodi 18/19, but then you lose support for the Kodi playback OSD and Kodi remote controls during playback since it's all happening in a external player.

And none of the external players that support madVR have very nice 10-ft GUIs that you can use to control wuth a remote (like changing audio tracks or selecting subtitle tracks and stuff like that)

[SamuriHL]

I mean I see people buy $9000 anamorphic DCR lenses for their ~$7000 JVC projector just to gain 38% brightness and make the pixel density a little smaller.

Surely a $7000 or $12000 video processor is not out of the question for all the befits its can do for the image. I think an Envy is certainly a better investment than an a-lens.

Let alone those using $25K+ projectors, etc.

Yup. For those that have the kind of money where those things are something to worry about, I absolutely agree. I don't think the market is huge, but it's not miniscule, either. These are the types of people who want home theaters to rival and in some cases surpass the movie theater experience. Certainly if I had an extra 150k kicking around I know what I'd build. :D

[dbezerra]

Man, I really wish the Kodi people could somehow support madVR through their video player.

DSPlayer is really getting dated now stuck on Kodi 17.6

I know you can do an external player with Kodi 18/19, but then you lose support for the Kodi playback OSD and Kodi remote controls during playback since it's all happening in a external player.

And none of the external players that support madVR have very nice 10-ft GUIs that you can use to control wuth a remote (like changing audio tracks or selecting subtitle tracks and stuff like that)

I feel the same way SirMaster. It's sad that today we don't have any good option combining the power of MadVR with a nice 10-ft interface. Well, some will say that JRiver is the answer, but I personally think their 10-ft UI is really outdated and I never found an alternative to the need of writing NFO files together with my media. This is a big no-no for me - all clients see my media as read-only.

[*MidnightWatcher*]

I feel the same way SirMaster. It's sad that today we don't have any good option combining the power of MadVR with a nice 10-ft interface. Well, some will say that JRiver is the answer, but I personally think their 10-ft UI is really outdated and I never found an alternative to the need of writing NFO files together with my media. This is a big no-no for me - all clients see my media as read-only.

I'd love to see Madshi release a customized version of KODI that works with madVR. Madshi and company could fork their own KODI version and provide it for free (open source) and I'd be happy to buy a license for his madVR software. As it stands today, he is making $0 from the 99% of us who will never, ever be able to afford Envy, but I'm thinking he could create a revenue stream from those of us willing to purchase a license (basic? standard? advanced? And monthly? annually? lifetime one-time purchase?) to use madVR.

[pepe]

KODI v19 => https://kodi.tv/article/kodi-19x-matrix-alpha-1

Thanks for the asnwer

But is more than a player, you know only a player or render?

If not I will have to use kodi since madvr is deprecated

Also I read this about kodi

Thanks for the info.
Player plays all demanding stuff on intel, so dxva is quite well optimized.
[PS. Nah, found some particular problems]

However it treats brightness differently to other players. Some samples looks like not so colourful when played in other players. On the other hand HDR videos are not completely pale, i think player tries to preserve most black/white tonal range upon saturated colours.
But im on internal laptop screen so, maybe will check more options available.

[Asmodian]

However it treats brightness differently to other players. Some samples looks like not so colourful when played in other players. On the other hand HDR videos are not completely pale, i think player tries to preserve most black/white tonal range upon saturated colours.

I hope that isn't true, that would be terrible as a default. I don't want extra colorful colors. My display is calibrated to a standard, output in the correct standard.

[Manni]

I feel the same way SirMaster. It's sad that today we don't have any good option combining the power of MadVR with a nice 10-ft interface. Well, some will say that JRiver is the answer, but I personally think their 10-ft UI is really outdated and I never found an alternative to the need of writing NFO files together with my media. This is a big no-no for me - all clients see my media as read-only.

jRiver is great as a player that supports madVR very well, but I find it too limited as a front end.

For the UI, I use CMC (https://chamconsoft.com/cmc/), which replaces WMC and uses the MyMovies collection manager. It supports jRiver as an external player (following my request to add it) perfectly, amongst others.

It works great on the HTPC, completely usable with a remote (or an iPad/iPhone using iRule or similar).

MyMovies also controls the Dune players (directly) and some Oppo players (with a bridge) through its own iOS app, so you can use the same collection manager for both HTPC and standalone players.

Works great for me.

[JaylumX]

VLC player also does this.

You know any alternative to madvr?
Any other render or player it can passthrough HDR correct

Thanks and regards

[pepe]

VLC player also does this.

He can auto switch to HDR too?

If the answer is yes I have my new player

[Alexkral]

I have a problem with madVR and MPC-HC/BE. I've bought an SMSL SP200 amplifier for my headphones, and when I set it to high gain and maximum volume, I can clearly hear a high-pitched and repetitive sound simply when playing video, or when moving the player window, with the player volume at 0. I've tried changing the filters and disabling the Audio Switcher in MPC with no result. If I set the EVR as the renderer, the sound disappears. I can also hear it by clicking the Apply button on any madVR screen. When using any scaler other than NGU, the sound changes and becomes less noticeable, except when moving the player screen.

Of course if I lower the volume of the amplifier, the sound is less perceptible, but it is still quite noticeable with the volume at half, and with less than that I do not get any benefit from the amplifier.

[huhn]

your dpundcard/amp is not cleaning the power properly nothing madVR can do about.

could be fixed with a different GPU, could be fixed with a different mainboard, could be fixed with a new PSU, or could be your sound card.

[chros]

What's your sound output? RCA/HDMI? What sound device? Onboard audio/dedicated soundcard?
Can't you try it with a different sound device?

[Alexkral]

I'm using a USB DAC/AMP as DAC and preamp, connected to the SP200 by RCA. I have noticed that it also happens with mpv and even with the EVR when using demanding shaders. Curiously, it doesn't happen with my Fiio E12 also connected by RCA to the 3.5 mm input.

Anyway I bought the SP200 thinking that it would give me more headroom for the high impedance headphones, but since with the E12 I get more or less the same, I'm going to return it.

And yes, I tend to like a fairly high volume for some movies. :)

Thanks to both of you.

[huhn]

looks like your Fiio E12 is a good device.

[Alexkral]

Yes it is, and also durable, I think I bought it in 2013.

[doffen]

I'm having issues with changing display modes automatically with profiles.
Does anyone know if there is any bugs with this?

With no profiles madVR changes display modes as expected, but when i set up profiles it doesn't.
The correct profile is marked with bold text in madVR settings, so I believe the correct profile is selected, but it doesn't do anything.

My profile rule is simple:
if (hdr) "hdr"
else "sdr"

and the selected displaymodes is:

hdr
2160p23

sdr
2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50 2160p60


Has anyone experienced anything similar?

[huhn]

why would you use a profile for this?
leave the display mode out of it.

[richardsim7]

I'd love to see Madshi release a customized version of KODI that works with madVR. Madshi and company could fork their own KODI version and provide it for free (open source) and I'd be happy to buy a license for his madVR software. As it stands today, he is making $0 from the 99% of us who will never, ever be able to afford Envy, but I'm thinking he could create a revenue stream from those of us willing to purchase a license (basic? standard? advanced? And monthly? annually? lifetime one-time purchase?) to use madVR.

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=351534

[*MidnightWatcher*]

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=351534

That's what I'm already using.

[doffen]

why would you use a profile for this?
leave the display mode out of it.

Because of limitations of my TV.
I don't want to use 23,976Hz (and) 24Hz since my TV then reduces to 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. Personally I prefer some frame repeats and full chroma than less frame drops/repeats and reduced chroma subsampling.

The exception is HDR, which I want to transfer with 12/10 bit resolution which I can't do with higher framerates and therefore want 23,976Hz for that.

[Jake13942]

I have the same problem of losing HDR after updating to latest Nvidia drivers, As far as I've read on these forums, is madVR not gonna get any updates?

[tp4tissue]

Because of limitations of my TV.
I don't want to use 23,976Hz (and) 24Hz since my TV then reduces to 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. Personally I prefer some frame repeats and full chroma than less frame drops/repeats and reduced chroma subsampling.

The exception is HDR, which I want to transfer with 12/10 bit resolution which I can't do with higher framerates and therefore want 23,976Hz for that.

Damn you samsung, damn you to hell. :angry::angry:

[doffen]

Definitely! at least the overscan bug is resolved in the latest firmware.

But back to my issue, has anyone else had issues with profile based modes?

[Klaus1189]

Which firmware version solves the overscan issue?

[doffen]

1300.4 solved it for me.

[Klaus1189]

Thanks :) Just to be sure - what model do you have exactly? I think I don't understand what is the issue is exactly about 4:2:2. When does it happen exactly?

[doffen]

My model is an NU8000 (UE82NU8005)

The chroma issue which apparently is a Samsung thing is that when the refresh rate goes down to 23 or 24 Hz the TV switches from 4:4:4 chroma to 4:2:2 chroma, even though it shows it's still in PC-mode.
I've double checked with test images, and everything from 29Hz and up is full chroma. I'm not sure about 25Hz, but both 23,976 and 24Hz is 4:2:2 chroma.

[brazen1]

Maybe it's because you use PC mode. That always limits a panels capabilities. Perhaps some other 'different' settings and/or drivers for some reason too? Imo, I don't think it's a panel problem you have. My current Samsung and all of my past Samsungs never had 4:4:4 problems at any resolution but I'm using different settings than you.

[doffen]

Many people have this problem with different samsung tvs.
ex.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/do-you-use-a-samsung-4k-tv-as-a-pc-monitor.3116496/

or:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/2019-samsung-q70r-qled-owners-thread-no-price-talk.3056264/page-46

I see in the last link there's a bug that might be exploited to get 4:4:4 chroma in 23/24Hz. I'll try that later when i find time.

[brazen1]

As I said, maybe it's because you use PC mode.

Here is a direct quote from the 1st link you provided. It's one of the last posts in the discussion:

"I found a way to permanently fix this. (Otherwise I would definitely have had to return the TV.) YMMV. I labeled the TV as "Game Console". This fixed the issue. Then I changed the label back to "PC". The fix stayed. Yes, it was a gigantic dealbreaker until I found the solution. I spent a lot of time plugging away at Samsung's customer support chat over the issue. They were no help; I had to discover it myself. That it can be fixed at all is, of course, a totally random miracle, because it's certain that Samsung doesn't care and won't be fixing it themselves in any capacity more proactive than accidentally. And I also acknowledge that probably nobody else even knows it can be fixed, despite the latest firmware."

Fwiw, on my Q90R and all my former Samsungs, I edit my source to 'Blu-ray Player' and leave it. Note that the quote above is relabeling the source a couple of times while I simply edit it once. Keep in mind this is the madVr thread and we are getting way off topic.

@Klaus1189
When you adjust the panel to anything but PC mode, there is no overscan issue. The switch to enable 'fit to screen' becomes active once you get out of PC modes limitations. Doing this also allows the color space selection to be enabled. On Samsungs when using a PC you would select 'normal' which is 0-255 and RGB.

[huhn]

he wants 4:4:4 so he has to use PC mode.

[SirMaster]

Does anyone have a link to or copy of the official madVR API?

I would like to program a connection to it into some software of mine.

[brazen1]

I'm not understanding about having to use PC mode? I don't use PC mode. I never have on any of my panels other than testing. PC mode looks terrible no matter what settings are adjusted and many will be greyed out or unavailable which decreases any chance of viewing an acceptable picture. Movie mode isn't even available and I definitely want the algo used in that mode vs the only other two modes available when using PC mode - Standard or Dynamic. To enable 4:4:4, I select what Samsung calls 'Input Signal Plus'. I look at the test pattern 'quick brown fox' and I can read every text perfectly. I assume if 4:4:4 was not working, the text would be blurry. Also, because 4:4:4 is RGB (mixtures of red, green, and blue) if I wasn't getting 4:4:4, reds would take on an orange tint. I think this is an inherent tell tale sign on Samsungs. I'm only interested in video watching. This discussion isn't about gaming is it? If you would be kind enough to increase my understanding and how it would benefit my/our usage, please elaborate. Thanks.

[Asmodian]

I assume if 4:4:4 was not working, the text would be blurry. Also, because 4:4:4 is RGB (mixtures of red, green, and blue) if I wasn't getting 4:4:4, reds would take on an orange tint.

That is not how it works. If you are not using PC mode you do not have 4:4:4 chroma on a Samsung TV. Reds would look orange? What? 4:4:4 is not RGB, 4:4:4 is YCbCr. :confused:

It can look fine, and keep using whatever mode you think looks best, but do not fool yourself into thinking you are getting 4:4:4 chroma because quick brown fox looks pretty sharp.
ChromaRes.png (http://www.mediafire.com/view/40a9jrk3q03s7gk/ChromaRes.png/file).

[brazen1]

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I see purple 4:2:2 with horizontal rows and solid dark 4:4:4 in your .png. When I switch to PC mode, 4:4:4 text gets a bit darker. What should I be seeing? Thanks.

[huhn]

even the "madVR" chroma test image can look like 444 on screen that subsample scale it in linear light something interest happens.

there are other ways to get a 100% result if a screen is subsampling using this image. you just get very very close and if you find 1 pixel sized blue pixel in a perfect check board pattern then this screen isn't subsampling.

so i make this a short version on samsung if you are not using PC mode your screen is downscaling the chroma (and pretty much every Tv brand)if you see this or not it's happening. it lowers sharpness and adds artifacts adds banding noise more dither noise list is long. it's not really hard to find with a trained eye.

edit: the image needs to be watched unscaled with as little processing active as possible.

[brazen1]

Not sure I'm understanding you correctly? Are you saying when using PC mode and 4:4:4 image will be sharper, less banding and noise? Because I get the exact opposite. When I enable PC mode, the first thing I see is a fuzzy decreased sharpness. Didn't bother to test banding or noise since the sharpness is so poor. Also, reds on my windows desktop immediately turn orange and I have read this from others too.

[huhn]

sorry i have calibrated my screens there is no orange get's red and i have also calibrated my sharpness. which for samsung is usually 0 and for some very odd reason 5 on sony because a super strong unsharpen filter is something everyone needs...

what so ever i don't know how accurate a samsung Tv is in PC mode or if they go nuts but if you calibrate you will know if it does.

[brazen1]

Ok, thanks.

[huhn]

that's a first nvidia is providing a workaround for madVR and madVR isn't providing a workaround for an nvidia bug.

[chros]

Does anyone have a link to or copy of the official madVR API?
I don't think that there's much of an API, the doc (examples) has to be in the release zip file. I think API was only implemented for calibration, e. g. you can look at displaycal source code.
I asked madshi about this the time when I created the small javascript remote. He said there's not much but he could implement it. I told him no need for that because I figured out how to do it with keyboard shortcuts.
I hope this helps.

[SirMaster]

I don't think that there's much of an API, the doc (examples) has to be in the release zip file. I think API was only implemented for calibration, e. g. you can look at displaycal source code.
I asked madshi about this the time when I created the small javascript remote. He said there's not much but he could implement it. I told him no need for that because I figured out how to do it with keyboard shortcuts.
I hope this helps.

Hmm, I wonder what they are referring to here:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?pid=2922387#pid2922387


Reworked picture size / postition / aspect ratio communication with madVR (https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid...pid2922196)
(Now uses madshi's official madVR API commands. Thanks @madshi for the great info on the API!)


I also wonder, how does Kodi interact with madVR directly?

You can bring up settings pages inside Kodi and change things like upscaling and dithering etc through Kodi interface that directly edits the madVR options.

I was also looking at this:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175&pid=2298920#pid2298920

DSPlayer can interact with madVR settings directly so there must be a way to communicate with madVR.

I need to investigate more how this plugin works.

https://github.com/aracnoz/repository.dsplayer/tree/master/script.madvrsettings

[el Filou]

It's sad that today we don't have any good option combining the power of MadVR with a nice 10-ft interface. Well, some will say that JRiver is the answer, but I personally think their 10-ft UI is really outdated and I never found an alternative to the need of writing NFO files together with my media.Have you tried MediaPortal 1? It's fully skinnable so the interface can be modified if you don't like it, and it supports madVR. It has plugins to achieve the media library management ("Moving Pictures", "MP-TVSeries"), though I never used Kodi so I can't say how they compare.Reworked picture size / postition / aspect ratio communication with madVR (https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid...pid2922196)
(Now uses madshi's official madVR API commands. Thanks @madshi for the great info on the API!) Yes there's an API for stuff like that, but I'm not sure if all is public. Here is a document I know (MediaPortal devs had a bug like that too): http://madshi.net/89notesForDevs.pdf