madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

I guess that mVR tweak you just mentioned wouldn't change anything for me?
You'll have to reevaluate then, can't say.

Did anything ever come of that iNEDI / ICBI or other more advanced resamplers?
I have a working ICBI CPU software implementation, and it looks nice, better than standard Lanczos. I'm not sure if ICBI will look better or a non-ringing Lanczos implementation. iNEDI etc have too many weird artifacts, IMHO.

Something I have noticed recently is that when bringing up the madVR preferences, it is quitting fullscreen mode in MPC-HC, which isn't very helpful when you're trying to compare scaling algorithms. (it resizes the window so that video is displayed at 100%)
I don't think I can do anything about it. It's how MPC HC reacts in that situation.

I did more testing and found that the problem begins with version 0.32. In fact when I though I reverted to 0.30 I actually used v0.31.
Hmmmm... I did a change in 0.32 which could introduce new crashes. But I actually fixed that in 0.34. So could you please double check whether the issue still occurs with 0.34?

It works with HDMI but not with DisplayPort. I didn't try with any analog connection.
Weird.

[robpdotcom]

Something I have noticed recently is that when bringing up the madVR preferences, it is quitting fullscreen mode in MPC-HC, which isn't very helpful when you're trying to compare scaling algorithms. (it resizes the window so that video is displayed at 100%).

A question for madshi regarding this:

If you are running madHcCtrl on another PC (such as a laptop), and make changes to your HTPC settings from there, will the changes have an immediate effect? That would allow you to compare algorithms without even bringing up the menu on your HTPC.

[pankov]

Hmmmm... I did a change in 0.32 which could introduce new crashes. But I actually fixed that in 0.34. So could you please double check whether the issue still occurs with 0.34?
Sadly, the log file I posted before is exactly from v0.34 (I think it's visible in the file itself).
As far as I can tell this happens at the beginning of the new file not at the end of previous one ... if that helps at all.

[THX-UltraII]

i recently formatted my hdd, it was time for a fresh w7 installation. when i try to open madvr in mpc-hc i get a notification:

madvr instance not found.

please make sure that youur firewall doesn t block madvr.

i m nnot running the w7 or any other firewall.....

[szabi]

Hi

I got this failure message when I would save image by mpc-hc with mardvr+3dlut renderer.

http://www.abload.de/img/madvr_mpchc_snapsht8q90.gif

How could any image be saved?

bye
szabi

[dansrfe]

madVR does not support frame capture at the moment. Use the print-screen button or a image capture software which locks onto windows such as FastStone Capture.

Cheers,

Daniel

[szabi]

I can save image by mpc-hc if any other renderer are used.
Now I used hali renderer plus mpc-hc ffmpeg (x264) decoder.

I do not trust printscreen because of this:

This picture was saved by mpc-hc:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/hali_render_mpc_decode3z4a.png (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=hali_render_mpc_decode3z4a.png)

This was by printscreen:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/hali_render_mpc_decodeql74.png (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=hali_render_mpc_decodeql74.png)

I think you can see the different.
That is why I am interested how to save correct image from madvr renderer, other than printscreen.

Bye
szabi

[dansrfe]

The printscreen one is right. Something is wrong in your configuration I suspect. Haali is not very accurate on the levels and RGB conversion mechanisms.

[janos666]

Did you try to make screenshots with FRAPS (http://www.fraps.com/)?
A possible explanation of this difference: When you use the CMS function, printscreen will capture the corrected image while the "save image" (Alt+I) will capture the uncorrected image. I am not sure about other functions but it can happen with any other post-processing...
By the way... What is this movie?

[cyberbeing]

@szabi

The MPC-HC image save function always converts from 16-235 to 0-255 while saving an image. The PrtScn image is 'correct' in the sense that your souce contains chroma information from 3-227 and luminance information from 3-222. MPC while saving images, clips all data from 0-15 and 236-255, so in that image all the data from 4-15 is lost.

While this is very off-topic for this thread, what you have is an improper tv cap with a shifted TV range. To correctly convert that image from TV to PC you would need to do a custom conversion expanding chroma from 3-227 -> 0-255 and luminance 3-222 -> 0-255 with the result below.

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2264/manualtvpcconversion.th.png (http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2264/manualtvpcconversion.png)

btw szabi, you should edit your post, since you are directly linking two 1MB images.

[szabi]

I did try FRAPS but it can not take snapshot while the player is paused, so I could not get exactly the same frame.

This settings are used with hali renderer:
http://www.abload.de/img/hali_settings9xy6.gif

http://www.abload.de/img/render_settings3a1e.gif

Luma range is 0-255 (this is the default anyway), so I do not understand what conversion is needed.

For your information this movie is the predators. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1424381/)

[namaiki]

madVR PC(0-255) = EVR 0-255 = Haali TV(16-235) <- The default and typical option for computer monitors.

and madVR TV(16-235) = EVR 16-235 = Haali PC(0-255).


EVR is talking about the output/screen(it seems that my PC with Intel GPU does not respect the option set by EVR-CP, but always expands), Haali is talking about the input/video(as far as I know, typically is 16-235 and as such you want to expand to 0-255 or it will look grey/gray).

[szabi]

I took snapshot by FRAPS and I got same like printscreen.
You might be right about save image function is not working properly with haali render.

Anyway I checked it with EVR render and the save image by mpc-hc gave the same result as printscreen.
Unfortunately the fraps does not work with EVR.

But I still do not understand if haali setting is PC(0-255) why it is running in TV(16-235) mode.

[namaiki]

But I still do not understand if haali setting is PC(0-255) why it is running in TV(16-235) mode.


EVR is talking about the output/screen, Haali is talking about the input/video.

The way I understand it, it means that if the Haali setting is PC(0-255) it assumes that the video itself is 0-255 and as such doesn't need to expand. EVR's 16-235 mode assumes that the screen is 16-235(for instance, some TVs) and as such 16-235 video(which is most videos) doesn't need to be expanded.

[dansrfe]

^ that's correct.

[pankov]

Guys,
while we are the topic of TV/Video and PC levels can I ask a few "dumb" questions:
Which is the preferred configuration if I use a HTPC connected to front projector (the HTPC is the only source)?
I use the projector to watch movies and TV (both live and recorded shows and sports) ... and occasionally some gaming.
Many calibration guides tell me not to clip/expand the video signal at the source (the HTPC/madVR) but use the brightness/contrast controls on the display device. Using the later I'm supposed to hide everything bellow level 16, while preserving everything up to 255. While I'm not sure if I really need the information between 235 and 255 I'm partly ready to sacrifice it but I thought it's better to ask first.
Also if I configure madVR in such a way (using levels 16-235) after I reconfigure my projector I'll "break" my gaming experience, right?
On the other hand if I set madVR to PC levels (0-255) it will have to process every frame and despite madshi's genius it it still an additional processing that can spoil the quality, right? And I'll definitely lose the information between 235 and 255, right?
So which is the lesser evil?

[leeperry]

So which is the lesser evil?
most projector's work in 0-255 internally, so feeding them 16-235 will force them to expand to 0-255 internally anyway. ffdshow has been so famous over the years because it's always done a much more convincing TV>PC conversion(even before Haruhiko's improvements) than any cheap onboard IC.

Indeed, ideally you should keep the levels untouched on the computer, and use the brightness/contrast settings in your pj(considering they're most likely processed in 10/12bit)..but that will break the windows desktop levels completely(pictures, games, etc).

And 8bit in RGB don't equal 8bit in YCbCr, so same goes for the color format...you can do a simple test as I did on my own Darkchip3 DLP pj: leave the levels untouched on the computer and set the brightness +16/contrast -17 in your pj, then go TV>PC in mVR and everything D65/2.x flat on the pj. The image is far more contrasty in the second case on my oldish HC3100, and that was even before mVR.

I personally use SmoothLevels() (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154971) these days, I find the PQ really amazing..but I haven't done any comparison against mVR, and I do need to make the TV>PC conversion before processing my Avisynth scripts.

[THX-UltraII]

i m using the latest ffdshow, mpc-hc and madvr build. my subtitles flicker. what could cause this?

[dansrfe]

Guys, it has been very simple, it is very simple and it will always be very simple:

Computer -> anything other than a crt (and some plasmas):

1) ffdshow, mpc-hc, madVR set to PC (0-255) and turn exclusive mode off unless you know what you're doing
2) Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels
3) If your output device has an option, make sure you set it to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels input.

If your setup doesn't "look" right on the output then calibrate your graphics card settings and your output device.

End of story.

PS: If you want to use subtitles with ffdshow and madVR - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1465928

[pankov]

dansfre,
if I understand you correctly you are saying - ditch the information between 235 and 255 and do all the processing in madVR and not in the projector/LCD TV, right?
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying this is not the right way to do it ... in fact this is exactly what I'm doing right now, except that I'm not using mpc-hc but ZoomPlayer ... it's just that I bought myself a i1d2 calibration probe and after reading/watching some guides on calibration I started to doubt if I'm doing things right.

[trainspotter]

Sorry for the late reply - wifey hit me with a computer ban for the holidays ;)



Are you 100% sure that the problem occurs with 0.24, and does not occur with 0.23? If so, that would be interesting...
Yes, absolutely sure. I just tested it again and every build prior to 0.24 works flawlessly.
I only tried with build 0.25 and above (as I seem to have deleted 0.24 and could not find it on any mirror). 0.23 is the last version that works for me without the described "timeout".


I'll add some more log outputs to the next build. That should help figuring out which step exactly causes the freeze for you.
Much appreciated, thank you :)



That's already a good indication! On all my PCs the tray icon appears *instantly*, right when starting the exe, without any noticeable delay. madHcCtrl.exe, before showing the tray icon, does some of the same network initialization stuff that madHcNet.dll is doing. So my current guess is that one of those network calls hangs on your PC, for whatever reason...
It's a possibility. The icon actually appears at the same time when the timeout is reached / the error message is displayed.
But if it was a network related issue, why is 0.24 showing the same behavior?
I always figured the exclusive mode to be the culprit, as it was the only major change (comparing 0.23 and 0.24) judging from the changelog. But maybe something else was changed internally back then, which causes incompatibility with my gfx card?
The Geforce 8800 Ultra is not too common anymore these days, so maybe that's why I am the only one reporting this issue so far.

[dansrfe]

dansfre,
if I understand you correctly you are saying - ditch the information between 235 and 255 and do all the processing in madVR and not in the projector/LCD TV, right?
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying this is not the right way to do it ... in fact this is exactly what I'm doing right now, except that I'm not using mpc-hc but ZoomPlayer ... it's just that I bought myself a i1d2 calibration probe and after reading/watching some guides on calibration I started to doubt if I'm doing things right.

Basically, yes, everything should be done in madVR because other methods, even those built into newer hardware will use older algorithms etc. First off, awesome job getting that calibration system. Frankly speaking I've had the same questions regarding calibration methods and what to adjust in what order with respect to:

1) the output device and its options
2) the graphics card control panel options, windows display options

Although the same setup in my previous post remains the same whether you calibrate or not.

If anyone does know this info and has some technical backing of it then please post it.

[szabi]

The way I understand it, it means that if the Haali setting is PC(0-255) it assumes that the video itself is 0-255 and as such doesn't need to expand. EVR's 16-235 mode assumes that the screen is 16-235(for instance, some TVs) and as such 16-235 video(which is most videos) doesn't need to be expanded.

Are there any program which can tell me this information about videos?

Guys, it has been very simple, it is very simple and it will always be very simple:

Computer -> anything other than a crt (and some plasmas):

1) ffdshow, mpc-hc, madVR set to PC (0-255) and turn exclusive mode off unless you know what you're doing
2) Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels
3) If your output device has an option, make sure you set it to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels input.

If your setup doesn't "look" right on the output then calibrate your graphics card settings and your output device.

End of story.

PS: If you want to use subtitles with ffdshow and madVR - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1465928

I have an ati vga but in CCC (http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/ati-catalyst/pages/ati-catalyst-control-center.aspx) never ever find this "Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels" function

[robpdotcom]

I have an ati vga but in CCC (http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/ati-catalyst/pages/ati-catalyst-control-center.aspx) never ever find this "Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels" function

In CCC it's called "Pixel Format". I think you need to set CCC to "Advanced View" to show this setting.

[szabi]

CCC 10.12 is used with advanced mode but i can not find this function "Pixel Format"

[JanWillem32]

If your display only supports full-range RGB, this item isn't displayed.

[szabi]

So I have nothing to do in that case.

[fairchild]

CCC 10.12 is used with advanced mode but i can not find this function "Pixel Format"

Depends on your card you may not have it, but if you are using the new CCC with the 10.12 drivers. While in Advanced View, on the left side you click on My Digitial Flat-Panels, under that there should be Properties (Digital Flat-Panels), Display Color (Digital Flat-Panel), HDTV Support (Digital Flat-Panels), LCD Overdrive (Digital Flat-Panels), Scaling Options (Digital Flat-Panels), and finally Pixel Format

[kostik]

Are there any program which can tell me this information about videos?



I have an ati vga but in CCC (http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/ati-catalyst/pages/ati-catalyst-control-center.aspx) never ever find this "Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels" function

You have this option only when you connect your tv via HDMI-HDMI or use DVI->HDMI ATI DOGLE.

[madshi]

If you are running madHcCtrl on another PC (such as a laptop), and make changes to your HTPC settings from there, will the changes have an immediate effect? That would allow you to compare algorithms without even bringing up the menu on your HTPC.
Yes.

i recently formatted my hdd, it was time for a fresh w7 installation. when i try to open madvr in mpc-hc i get a notification:

madvr instance not found.

please make sure that youur firewall doesn t block madvr.

i m nnot running the w7 or any other firewall.....
Does this message appear when you start a video or when you try to open the madVR settings dialog? Is the madVR tray icon working? What happens if you start madHcCtrl.exe manually? Does that work around the problem?

Which is the preferred configuration if I use a HTPC connected to front projector (the HTPC is the only source)?
I use the projector to watch movies and TV (both live and recorded shows and sports) ... and occasionally some gaming.
Many calibration guides tell me not to clip/expand the video signal at the source (the HTPC/madVR) but use the brightness/contrast controls on the display device. Using the later I'm supposed to hide everything bellow level 16, while preserving everything up to 255. While I'm not sure if I really need the information between 235 and 255 I'm partly ready to sacrifice it but I thought it's better to ask first.
Also if I configure madVR in such a way (using levels 16-235) after I reconfigure my projector I'll "break" my gaming experience, right?
For gaming and desktop you will want the PC to output classical computer levels (0-255). Many projectors have a switch in their setup menu to define whether you're sending RGB with video or PC levels. If you configure both PC and projector correctly, you should be able to get proper levels for desktop and games - if the projector has a RGB level switch. If it doesn't, you can try simulating it by modifying projector brightness and contrast controls.

Regardless of the above, for madVR you definitely want to set the GPU driver controls so that 0-255 is output. For ATI that means to set the HDMI connection to "RGB Full". For nVidia that means that you should create custom resolutions for all output modes you want to use with madVR.

Now the question is which levels (TV vs PC) you should use in the madVR settings dialog. *If* your projector has a RGB levels switch and if you also want to use the projector + HTPC for desktop, photos and gaming, you can set madVR to PC levels without any worry. The projector will not get BTB and WTW data this way - but BTB and WTW is not supposed to be shown, anyway, so that's no big loss. The advantage of this setup is that you won't have to change anything between madVR and games etc. Alternatively you could set madVR to video/TV levels (16-235). But then, if you also want to game sometimes, you'll have to switch the projector levels settings all the time.

On the other hand if I set madVR to PC levels (0-255) it will have to process every frame and despite madshi's genius it it still an additional processing that can spoil the quality, right? And I'll definitely lose the information between 235 and 255, right?
Thanks to the 16bit+ per component processing, there will be zero image quality loss, if you switch to PC levels instead of TV/video levels. The only disadvantage of PC levels is that you lose BTB/WTW. But that's mostly only a problem if you want to run a calibration DVD with BTB/WTW test patterns.

Whatever you do, of course you need to make sure that HTPC and projector use matching levels.

Yes, absolutely sure. I just tested it again and every build prior to 0.24 works flawlessly.
I only tried with build 0.25 and above (as I seem to have deleted 0.24 and could not find it on any mirror). 0.23 is the last version that works for me without the described "timeout".

I always figured the exclusive mode to be the culprit, as it was the only major change (comparing 0.23 and 0.24) judging from the changelog. But maybe something else was changed internally back then, which causes incompatibility with my gfx card?
I checked back and I did happen to add the madHcNet.dll in 0.24, without mentioning it in the changelog (because the purpose of the DLL was a secret at that time). So the whole network initialization stuff was added in 0.24. I think the problem you're experiencing has nothing to do with exclusive mode, but rather with some of the madHcNet initialization stuff. I've added some more logging to my work-in-progress sources, so please upload a new log for me, when the next madVR build is out.

The Geforce 8800 Ultra is not too common anymore these days, so maybe that's why I am the only one reporting this issue so far.
I highly doubt that the GPU model has anything to do with it. madVR is mostly GPU model independent. Well, not performance wise, of course. But in terms of problems/bugs.

[madshi]

I just reproduced the problem on my brothers PC, I updated to the latest CCCP beta on his system and installed madVR 0.32.
Installing an earlier build of MPC does not fix the problem, I tried build 2268 to test your theory.

You can either queue two files in the playlist or use the play next in folder feature. Once playback starts in windows mode I double click to maximize (The last displayed frame before maximizing is the frame that's displayed before the next file plays) I then skip to near the end of the file using the exclusive seekbar and continue to play in fullscreen.

MPC options launch files in fullscreen and exit fullscreen at end of playback were not enabled. Files queued in the playlist were not anything specific. My system is a x64 Windows 7 with ATI graphics and my brothers is running Vista with Nvidia graphics.

I tried reproducing on a Intel graphics based system running 7 but could only reproduce when exit fullscreen at the end of playback was enabled. I'll look at that system again when I have the chance, to confirm that.
I've done some more checking and logging. And I think the issue is as follows:

Whenever madVR switches between windowed and exclusive mode, Aero often likes to show a cached old image. This problem is well known (many complaints in this thread). But I don't think there's much I can do about it. I've seen in the madVR logs that when switching from one video file to the next (either through playlist of "play next file in folder"), MPC HC totally destroys the madVR renderer and recreates it. This is somewhat similar to switching between windowed and exclusive mode - just even more extreme. Again I strongly suppose that Aero is the one drawing an old frame in between.

Right now I don't have any good ideas about how to solve this from within madVR. MPC HC could solve it by not destroying+recreating the madVR renderer. MPC HC could reuse the same madVR instance when switching to the next video file. This would likely work around the problem. But I don't know if it's reasonable to expect the MPC HC guys to invest time into this, when it works relatively well with other renderers (and also with madVR, minus the cosmetical trouble).

One thing you could try is to disable Aero. Maybe that works around the issue?

[madshi]

While trying to nail down that chroma plane shifting bug, I managed to get a different one.
After pressing Alt+Enter enough, MPC-HC eventually stopped rendering the GUI and video in windowed mode and right clicking on the video caused MPC-HC to crash.. faulting module was madVR.
I've tried to reproduce this. Switched back and forth 50 times, no problems here. If you can reproduce it, we'll have to wait for some future madVR version which hopefully will be able to produce a proper crash report. For now logs don't help too much with crashes, unfortunately...

[airblaster]

I just noticed that madVR upscales videos if display width (1280px in my case) is the same as video width (1280px).
Is there any need for upscaling in this kind of situation?

The media player decides whether any upscaling is done. madVR does what the media player says. Anyway, how did you come to the conclusion that madVR upscales in that specific situation? What did the madVR OSD say? If you switch your media player to "100%" output, madVR should not scale.

I did some more tests, and it seems like I really enabled some kind of scaling in the media player. The only scaling still active at 100% output seems to be chroma scaling.

Below are the test results:

Movie: Big Buck Bunny ("MP4" version)
Display resolution: 1280x800
Movie resolution: 1280x720
All tests done in exclusive mode
Player: MPC-HC 1.4.2748.0 (MSVC 2010 version)
OS: Windows 7 64bit

### touch window from outside
Target rectangle: -71, 0, 1351,800

# Test 1: bilinear scaling for everything
dropped frames: 2
delayed frames: 1

# Test 2: chroma upscaling spline 4 taps / luma upscaling and downscaling bilinear
dropped frames: 85
delayed frames: 142

# Test 3: luma upscaling spline 4 taps / chroma upscaling and luma downscaling bilinear
dropped frames: 162
delayed frames: 208

# Test 4: luma & chroma upscaling spline 4 taps / luma downscaling bilinear
dropped frames: 297
delayed frames: 201

# Test 5: luma downscaling spline 4 taps / upscaling bilinear
dropped frames: 5
delayed frames: 2

# Test 6: everything spline 4 taps
dropped frames:
delayed frames:

#### touch window from inside
Target rectangle: 0, 40, 1280, 760
# Test 1
dropped frames: 2
delayed frames: 1

# Test 2
dropped frames: 22
delayed frames: 25

# Test 3
dropped frames: 2
delayed frames: 1

# Test 4
dropped frames: 32
delayed frames: 53

# Test 5
dropped frames: 2
delayed frames: 1

# Test 6
dropped frames: 24
delayed frames: 61

[madshi]

btw, there are two bugs i found found while using madVR in KMPlayer

1. in fullscreen mode when you press esc and it supposted to minimize it stucks on screen and you can't really do anything further - need reset or other blind actions to turn off video
This will be fixed in the next build.

2. esc again, when you open subtitles menu (alt + q) the esc which is supposted to close it just doesn't do it but does thing to video (minimize or corrupts it(see 1st))
When you open the subtitles menu, madVR has to switch back from exclusive mode to windowed mode. In this situation it can happen that the new dialog (in this case the subtitle menu) is not the active window, but the renderer is. If in this case you press ESC, the key is sent to the renderer and not the subtitle menu. If you acticate the subtitle menu before pressing ESC, even the old madVR version would have behaved as expected.

[madshi]

I did some more tests, and it seems like I really enabled some kind of scaling in the media player. The only scaling still active at 100% output seems to be chroma scaling.
Yep, that's as intended.

[trainspotter]

I checked back and I did happen to add the madHcNet.dll in 0.24, without mentioning it in the changelog (because the purpose of the DLL was a secret at that time). So the whole network initialization stuff was added in 0.24. I think the problem you're experiencing has nothing to do with exclusive mode, but rather with some of the madHcNet initialization stuff. I've added some more logging to my work-in-progress sources, so please upload a new log for me, when the next madVR build is out.
Ahh.. I see :)
Thanks for clearing that up, madshi.
All your hard work is highly appreciated!

I doubt it, but could IPv6 be a problem for madHcNet?
Except for an active IPv6 stack there is nothing really special about my network configuration.
Deactivating all network connections did not help with my issue :/
Nothing else to try comes to mind, so I will wait for the new version with enhanced logging capabilities :)

[madshi]

I have a major problem with the latest versions of madVR (> 0.31) and the latest builds of MPC Matroska splitter.

If I try to play a second file using a shortcut or the "next" button on my remote control while being in FSE mode I get the following error:
---------------------------
Zoom Player
---------------------------
Access violation at address 4A402E1A in module 'madVR.ax'. Read of address 00000018.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
I get the same error if Zoom Player automatically advances to the next video file in the playlist.
If I'm in windowed or fullscreen windowed mode everything is fine.
I haven't managed to reproduce the crash with Haali's Media Splitter and didn't try with the MPC splitter (don't have it installed as an external filter). But I've done a little change and hope that it will fix the issue in the next build. If not, please let me know. If it does fix the issue, please still send me a log file with the next madVR build from a situation where the old madVR build would have crashed. I've added some logging, so with your log I might be able to figure out whether my added fix really does work as intended.

[madshi]

I doubt it, but could IPv6 be a problem for madHcNet?
Shouldn't be a problem.

[mark0077]

madshi, when playing SOME bdmv's with madVR as the renderer, seeking using the mpc-hc seekbar works fine, but seeking using the madVR one doesn't seem to work correctly.

For example seeking back / forward perhaps a few pixels, can often jump 1 hour into the past / future with madVR. This was with Toy Story 3 blu-ray which contains many m2ts files. Is this a madVR issue, or a problem with seamless branching within mpc-hc for example? Not a big issue but something you might want to add to your list of things to look into if it indeed is a madVR problem.

[madshi]

madshi, when playing SOME bdmv's with madVR as the renderer, seeking using the mpc-hc seekbar works fine, but seeking using the madVR one doesn't seem to work correctly.

For example seeking back / forward perhaps a few pixels, can often jump 1 hour into the past / future with madVR. This was with Toy Story 3 blu-ray which contains many m2ts files. Is this a madVR issue, or a problem with seamless branching within mpc-hc for example? Not a big issue but something you might want to add to your list of things to look into if it indeed is a madVR problem.
I guess this bdmv playback is an MPC HC trick to blend multiple m2ts parts together? In this situation most probably the MPC HC seekbar is a hack, jumping into different m2ts files?

madVR's seekbar bypasses the media player and seeks directly via the DirectShow methods. My best guess is that this confuses the bdmv playback logic. But I don't really know, probably the devs who implemented bdmv playback would have to comment on this.

As far as I know, there's no easy way for madVR to tell MPC HC that it should seek somewhere, so using the DirectShow seek methods directly seems to be the only way for madVR to realize the seekbar functionality. Which means that there may not be much I can do. But I'm not 100% sure.

[j5627429]

I am contemplating the purchase of one of those Dell 27" monitors with 2560x1440 resolution.

Sorry if this seems rather obvious, but I haven't seen many people talking about this:

Would using madVR to upscale bluray 1920x1080 to full screen result in an even sharper and more accurate picture than with a native 1080p monitor, given the increased number of pixels for the dithering to work with? Are there any disadvantages of larger than HD resolutions vs. 1:1 bluray pixel mapping?

[madshi]

Would using madVR to upscale bluray 1920x1080 to full screen result in an even sharper and more accurate picture than with a native 1080p monitor, given the increased number of pixels for the dithering to work with? Are there any disadvantages of larger than HD resolutions vs. 1:1 bluray pixel mapping?
Upscaling to a higher resolution has advantages and disadvantages. The main advantage is that you're reducing aliasing, making certain image features/details more natural looking and easier to see. The disadvantage is that the image may become softer or that artifacts (like ringing) may be introduced, depending on the scaling algorithm you're using. I've once asked Dale Adams (who's developed the deinterlacing algorithms for the iScan video processors) at which scaling factor the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages in his opinion. He stated that with a scaling factor of 1.5x benefits should at least equal disadvantages or maybe outweigh them. Generally the higher the better. Now 2560 / 1920 = 1.33x. This is a scaling factor where it's hard to say whether upscaling will improve or hurt image quality. I would say it's going to look better in some aspects than 1:1 pixel mapping, but worse in others, depending on which exact scaling algorithm you're using. I don't feel safe predicting whether you'd prefer the image quality scaled to 2560x1440 or whether you'd prefer 1:1 pixel mapped 1080p. Might even be a matter of taste. Now if you had a display with twice the resolution, e.g. 3840x2160 then I'd feel safe to say that image quality should easily be improved over a 1080p display, with native 1080p content.

[j5627429]

Wow thanks for the quick reply, Madshi!. Looks like I'll just have to test it out for myself and see!

[Owyn]

any ideas why your Upscaling algorithm doesn't work? i tried with MadVR and default mix overlay video render in KMPlayer and screens of the same frame and exactly the same with and without MadVR

i see madvr icon in system tray when video is played btw

[madshi]

any ideas why your Upscaling algorithm doesn't work? i tried with MadVR and default mix overlay video render in KMPlayer and screens of the same frame and exactly the same with and without MadVR
I've no idea what you mean? madVR will upscale if KMP tells it to. Check your KMP zoom settings.

[Owyn]

what you mean?
fullscreen upscaled image is exactly the same WITH and WITHOUT MadVR


I've no idea what you mean? madVR will upscale if KMP tells it to. Check your KMP zoom settings.

well i did choose to use MadVR as video renderer in KMP and MadVR icon is showing in system tray but KMP has no special options which video renderer to use when upscaling or something like that =\

[madshi]

fullscreen upscaled image is exactly the same WITH and WITHOUT MadVR
I'm not sure what you expected. Maybe you were expecting a dramatically better image when using madVR? If so, you had too high expectations. madVR produces slightly superior results to many other renderers. But depending on the renderer, GPU, OS and also depending on the movie, you might not see much of a difference.

well i did choose to use MadVR as video renderer in KMP and MadVR icon is showing in system tray but KMP has no special options which video renderer to use when upscaling or something like that =\
If the madVR icon is showing when you start playing and if the madVR icon goes away when you close KMP then madVR is used for rendering just fine.

[fastplayer]

madVR produces slightly superior results to many other renderers.
Slightly?! Now that's an understatement!
madVR's debanding on medium-to-low bitrate sources works wonders. It's a night and day difference for me compared to VLC, WMP etc.

[leeperry]

madVR's debanding on medium-to-low bitrate sources works wonders.
it doesn't deband per se, it prevents additional banding, as LaTo explained here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1405673&postcount=10) about his own SmoothLevels() script.

I keep mentioning his script because it looks eye popping through mVR, I posted some comparisons here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1454344&postcount=96).

This will be fixed in the next build.
yeah, minimizing PotPlayer in FSE doesn't work too well either.

when the next madVR build is out.
I'm immune to your teasing http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/julm3.gif

[madshi]

Slightly?! Now that's an understatement!
madVR's debanding on medium-to-low bitrate sources works wonders. It's a night and day difference for me compared to VLC, WMP etc.
Well, ok... :) The problem is, depending on the situation, source type and "competition", the difference can be obvious or almost invisible. When reading some of the praise in this thread some people (especially madVR newbies) may be led to expect miracles. Like switching from EVR to madVR would equal the difference between DVDs and Blu-Rays or something. Which is obviously not the case.

yeah, minimizing PotPlayer in FSE doesn't work too well either.
It doesn't? Nobody told me about that yet. FWIW, when I press ESC in PotPlayer, it just goes back to windowed mode, while KMP (with default settings) hides in the tray.

I'm immune to your teasing http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/julm3.gif
Is that you in that picture. I thought you'd be older... :p

FWIW, the next build will come really soon, but in contrast to my original plans, it will be a bugfix only release.