madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[aufkrawall]

According to AMD, there will be HDMI displays with FreeSync in Q1 2016.
Would it technically be a huge effort to change madVR's presentation logic to natively output the movie's framerate?

[nevcairiel]

According to AMD, there will be HDMI displays with FreeSync in Q1 2016.
Would it technically be a huge effort to change madVR's presentation logic to natively output the movie's framerate?

This has been answered plenty times in the context of GSYNC, which is really just the same, and the answer is yes. Presentation strongly relies on the V-SYNC interrupts for timing, which happens accurately in hardware.

madshi himself has also just recently said that his primary focus is on TVs or Projectors, not PC-focused displays, so unless a TV actually adopts something like this at some point....

[Marsu42]

madshi mentioned in the past that it might arrive but that it's not a priority for him.

Thanks for sparing me to search all forum posts :-) and I'll keep my fingers crossed that madshi will have pity on us sooner or later.

Now that I've tried ffdshow's nice, but slow version I'm really hooked to non-linear scale 4:3 or widescreen content to my 16:9 display ... but anything above sd resolution is a no go with my 2ghz dual-core. Esp. watching an old 4:3 tv series in widescreen is amazing.

Btw I also tried Cyberlink's version and it's horrible b/c zero config options how strong the distortion to the edges is to be. Their version shows that there is a large speed improvement possible over ffdshow though, that's why I wondered about MadVR.

[bran]

HDMI doesn't have enough bandwidth for 4K RGB 4:4:4 in 10-bit, only 8-bit, or lower refreshrate, or lower chroma.

Unless movies actually start being 60Hz or something at some point, using 24p in 10-bit is probably best.
Speaking of, I wonder if this is a viable setup and the resolution switcher can actually deal with it.... Switching between 60Hz 8-bit and 24Hz 10-bit automatically.

Of course.. that thought never struck me. I could manually switch to 24p and 10/12bit when using madVR for movies! Hehe been so into getting everything to work that I overlooked that possibility :thanks:

Would be awesome if this could be managed automagically :D

[Nullack]

HDMI doesn't have enough bandwidth for 4K RGB 4:4:4 in 10-bit, only 8-bit, or lower refreshrate, or lower chroma.

Unless movies actually start being 60Hz or something at some point, using 24p in 10-bit is probably best.
Speaking of, I wonder if this is a viable setup and the resolution switcher can actually deal with it.... Switching between 60Hz 8-bit and 24Hz 10-bit automatically.

Apparently, amongst other things like dynamic metatdata support in HDMI 2.1, the future spec will support 10 Bpc 60Hz RGB in UHD res.

I would expect more films in UHD Blurays to be HFR - high frame rate - like what was offered in The Hobbit in cinemas.

In my test library of different video footage, all of my 60 FPS UHD HEVC content is from productions that are broadcast TV.

According to double blind studies its very difficult to see the difference in full chroma res vs chroma sub sampling for film content. Apparently the human eye is sensitive to black and white more than colour.

Cheers

[Ver Greeneyes]

According to double blind studies its very difficult to see the difference in full chroma res vs chroma sub sampling for film content. Apparently the human eye is sensitive to black and white more than colour.
Yes, in many scenes I literally can't tell the difference between bilinear chroma upscaling and NNEDI3-256. Someone did link a video where the difference is easily visible, however (if you pause it and look close, admittedly - but the difference isn't subtle), so it depends very much on the material.

[firewater]

When you change profile, an OSD message appears at the top left of the video mentioning which profile you've selected. Is there any way to hide this?

[nevcairiel]

I would expect more films in UHD Blurays to be HFR - high frame rate - like what was offered in The Hobbit in cinemas

Except that even in the cinema that's not the case. hobbit was the only movie where this was used so far. Unless more movies start using this in the cinema already, BDs also won't have it. ;)

[ashlar42]

Except that even in the cinema that's not the case. hobbit was the only movie where this was used so far. Unless more movies start using this in the cinema already, BDs also won't have it. ;)And, notwithstanding directors' enthusiastic comments, I say good riddance. Watching "The Hobbit" in HFR has been such a pain for me that I enjoyed it so much more at home, watching it at 24fps... The scene where dwarves empty his food storage looked like a supermarket commercial in HFR. :)
Sorry for the off topic.

[Aktan]

According to double blind studies its very difficult to see the difference in full chroma res vs chroma sub sampling for film content. Apparently the human eye is sensitive to black and white more than colour.

Like Ver Greeneyes said, it really highly depends on the content. I know it is very noticeable on pixel art like NES games where 1 color is used on 1 pixel to show it's a light or something and the subsampling kills the color.

[jebediah]

I have no idea if this is caused by madVR or something else, but i just bought a new 4K TV and have some problems with 720p movies.
Every time a watch a 720p movies i got 5cm black bars on the left and right side, almost like if the movie is scaled wrong. 1080p and 4K material seems to be right, so it's just 720p and maybe lower resolution.
Any iadea why and how i can fix this?

[huhn]

I have no idea if this is caused by madVR or something else, but i just bought a new 4K TV and have some problems with 720p movies.
Every time a watch a 720p movies i got 5cm black bars on the left and right side, almost like if the movie is scaled wrong. 1080p and 4K material seems to be right, so it's just 720p and maybe lower resolution.
Any iadea why and how i can fix this?


can you make a screen from the OSD?

[jebediah]

can you make a screen from the OSD?

Sorry but i don't know what you mean. OSD=On screen display, but what else do you want to know?
English is not my native language so have patience with me :)

[huhn]

you can show it with control + J

[jebediah]

you can show it with control + J

Oh sorry. Did not know about that feature. Anyway.... http://s24.postimg.org/48ld5lfs3/20151226_025640.jpg
And thanks for the fast reply

[Razoola]

I think madshi is going to want to know the 4k resolution your UHD TV supports and what resolution you are choosing to use (4096 x 2160 or 3840 x 2160)? Do you have madVR or other software changing the screen resolution based on content/framerate also?

Seems to me you are using 4096 x 2160 but madVR is expecting 3840 x 2160. I say this because based on your sceenshot 3840+128+128=4096 and your OSD reports the left black bar is 128 pixels wide.

[jebediah]

I think madshi is going to want to know the 4k resolution your UHD TV supports and what resolution you are choosing to use (4096 x 2160 or 3840 x 2160)? Do you have madVR or other software changing the screen resolution based on content/framerate also?

Seems to me you are using 4096 x 2160 but madVR is expecting 3840 x 2160. I say this because based on your sceenshot 3840+128+128=4096 and your OSD reports the left black bar is 128 pixels wide.

Just found out that i've forgot to set up my display modes in madVR. Seems to work fine now.

[rodrigo081089]

I have no idea why, but now when i open the mpc with madvr it crashes and i can´t watch any video.

If i choose the system default render the mpc works ok

[huhn]

what type of error do you get and what type of hardware is used?

[jebediah]

Got a new question for you guys.
How do i "activate" ycbcr444 on MPC-HC/madVR?
I've chosen ycbcr444 in the Nvidia control panel, but madVR still says 4:2:0 when i'm watching movies.
http://s12.postimg.org/4pdkbltod/Untitled_1.jpg

[Asmodian]

Got a new question for you guys.
How do i "activate" ycbcr444 on MPC-HC/madVR?
I've chosen ycbcr444 in the Nvidia control panel, but madVR still says 4:2:0 when i'm watching movies.
http://s12.postimg.org/4pdkbltod/Untitled_1.jpg

That is what madVR is receiving from LAV video, not what it is outputting. MadVR always outputs RGB.

[rodrigo081089]

what type of error do you get and what type of hardware is used?

Thanks, but i fixed it. The problem was because yesterday i installed nvidia 3d play tv, after i unistalled it the mpc worked again with madvr

[jebediah]

That is what madVR is receiving from LAV video, not what it is outputting. MadVR always outputs RGB.

Sorry. This is kinda new for me and i have no clue how it works. So the color space comes from the movie it self and not the player?
Also, why are madVR use RGB as output? I thought YCbCr444 was a requirement to run 4K material at 60hz?

I have some video demo (yes legal) that i'm running, both 1080p and 4K

[huhn]

you can use RGB for UHD

[Nullack]

Hi, feature request idea please. Now that Im using madVR I am missing features I used to use allot from the MPC-BE stats renderer that I found useful. These are:

* CPU utilisation
* GPU utilisation
* Description of the codec used in decoding and what it is - e.g. DXVA 2 H.264 or software MPEG4PT2ASP etc

Please consider

[Warner306]

Sorry. This is kinda new for me and i have no clue how it works. So the color space comes from the movie it self and not the player?
Also, why are madVR use RGB as output? I thought YCbCr444 was a requirement to run 4K material at 60hz?

I have some video demo (yes legal) that i'm running, both 1080p and 4K

madVR will output in RGB, either way. So converting the output at the GPU probably isn't necessary.

And RGB and YCbCr 4:4:4 are basically the same thing -- no subsampling is used.

[aufkrawall]

madVR will output in RGB, either way. So converting the output at the GPU probably isn't necessary.

madVR should to RGB conversion since dither then is applied after scaling and not before (which is not optimal).

[jebediah]

you can use RGB for UHD

madVR will output in RGB, either way. So converting the output at the GPU probably isn't necessary.

And RGB and YCbCr 4:4:4 are basically the same thing -- no subsampling is used.

Thanks. Thought there was something speciall about YCbCr 4:4:4 since my TV gave me a notice that with HDMI Deep color, 4:4:4 or 4:2:0 was the best choice

[Warner306]

Thanks. Thought there was something speciall about YCbCr 4:4:4 since my TV game me a notice that with HDMI Deep color, 4:4:4 or 4:2:0 was the best choice

RGB is a PC color space. YCbCr is a TV color space. Your TV will talk to you in its language.

[huhn]

RGB is a PC color space. YCbCr is a TV color space. Your TV will talk to you in its language.

that's not true. YCbCr was invented to sub sample and encode a picture in a meaningful way so it can be encoded more efficiently.
nearly all LCD TVs have an RGB LCD grid so the TV has to use RGB in the end. and of cause this conversation isn't lossless.

YCbCr should be avoid.

[iSeries]

that's not true. YCbCr was invented to sub sample and encode a picture in a meaningful way so it can be encoded more efficiently.
nearly all LCD TVs have an RGB LCD grid so the TV has to use RGB in the end. and of cause this conversation isn't lossless.

YCbCr should be avoid.

Isn't it true that virtually all TVs (unless in some kind of 'PC mode', which greatly restricts features) will convert an RGB signal to YCbCr to apply it's own processing before again converting to RGB for display? I really don't understand the benefit of sending RGB if this is the case.

[nlnl]

* fixed: DXVA decoding + deint -> refresh rate sometimes didn't switch

Thanks madshi! It does work, no problem.

1) Madshi, do you know any way to force vector adaptive deinterlacing using new AMD driver?
2) Please, have a look at this sample.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7a6LffuxvKUblU4NmpHYWthdjQ/view?usp=sharing
Image is not centered if black bars are automatically detected.

[jkauff]

Isn't it true that virtually all TVs (unless in some kind of 'PC mode', which greatly restricts features) will convert an RGB signal to YCbCr to apply it's own processing before again converting to RGB for display? I really don't understand the benefit of sending RGB if this is the case.
For most TVs, the internal processing is not nearly as good as what you can do in madVR. What does "PC mode" take away on your TV that madVR doesn't have covered?

[huhn]

Isn't it true that virtually all TVs (unless in some kind of 'PC mode', which greatly restricts features) will convert an RGB signal to YCbCr to apply it's own processing before again converting to RGB for display? I really don't understand the benefit of sending RGB if this is the case.

a TV can do it in a lot higher bit deep.

a lot TVs do post procressing in 4:2:2 and not 4:4:4 so it should be avoid if possible using a PC mode. there are known issues with PC mode making it impossible to use on a lot of screens, i know this.

RGB is the most undamaged type of data we can send yet.

[iSeries]

For most TVs, the internal processing is not nearly as good as what you can do in madVR. What does "PC mode" take away on your TV that madVR doesn't have covered?

All kinds of things. My TV is locked at 60hz in PC mode and many of it's controls are locked. This is a no-go for me. As far as I understand it, if you can adjust your TVs saturation control while sending RGB, your TV is converting that RGB signal to YCbCr before converting back to RGB.

[chros]

What does "PC mode" take away on your TV that madVR doesn't have covered?
e.g. 23p,24p,25p,29p,50p,59p :)

[markanini]

yes i'm sure it is soft telecine and the reported fps is 29.90 fps says source filter even with "if in doubt, activate deinterlancing".

some extra informations.
software decoding with IVTC sees 3:2.
quiicksync decoding with IVTC sees 2:2 (no repeat flags)

and there is no combed file in the whole source.

and ffmpegsource uses 23p for it.

The issue is limited to when QS decoding is enabled, correct? I reported some issues with madvr not doing interlaced to progressive switching when with QS so I've used software decoding since.

[huhn]

The issue is limited to when QS decoding is enabled, correct? I reported some issues with madvr not doing interlaced to progressive switching when with QS so I've used software decoding since.

in my short test yes.

DXVA/DXVA copyback was fine too.

[zvans18]

would it be possible to change things so if smooth motion is needed, it will pick your highest refresh rate rather than the highest 'normal' one? specifically, i run my 60hz monitors at 66hz, which never gets picked for non 15/30/60 fps content

edit: also my old problem of refresh rate only changing on my hdmi connected monitor was fixed /i believe/ with 89.19. (never used 89.18 and i could never narrow down exactly when it started)

[Warner306]

Can madVR settings be made portable?

[Vyral]

Can madVR settings be made portable?

In your madVR folder, there is a file named "settings.bin" that contains all your settings. You can make a back up of this file to keep your settings.

[daglax]

I do like the "new" zoom setting very much. I use it to shift the image to the bottom to match my screen masking for my projector. The only thing still missing is an option to crop picture to various aspect ratios (e.g. 21:9) or any other cropping feature.

Will something like this be implemented in future releases?

[aufkrawall]

In your madVR folder, there is a file named "settings.bin" that contains all your settings. You can make a back up of this file to keep your settings.
It's not there for me. Any idea why?

[jmonier]

If you designate your projector as such, you get "Screen Config" options. I believe this should do what you want in conjunction with profiles and the "Crop Black Borders" option in Zoom Control.

[Warner306]

It's not there for me. Any idea why?

I don't have a settings.bin either. I don't think this file exists.

[nevcairiel]

I don't have a settings.bin either. I don't think this file exists.

If your madVR folder is writeable, it will appear there. Works fine for me. Don't install in Program Files or other UAC protected folders. :)
Note that its only written when settings are changed, so if you fixed the folder permissions or something, change a setting to make it write it again.

[jmonier]

I certainly have settings.bin in my Program Files (x86)/MadVR folder. However, I do have UAC turned off. Note that Zoomplayer Install Center seems to install in the Program Files folder as a matter of course. I would think that UAC would warn you, that's what it seemed to do on other files when when I had it turned on.

[chros]

I certainly have settings.bin in my Program Files (x86)/MadVR folder. However, I do have UAC turned off.
UAC also turned off and the dir isn't writeable for the avarage user so I don't have a settings.bin :)

[clsid]

Settings are also stored in the Registry:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\madshi\madVR

[wolfman2791]

It's been suggested to me to turn off the DVI Dithering on my AMD card. Should i or shouldn't i? Does the dithering restrict the color gamut?