madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Manni]

I don't know, I've only tested the one driver I have currently installed (390.65). It's 100% reproducable for me with this driver. I get banding free 10bit output in SDR, but as soon as I activate Nvidia's HDR passthrough, I get banding when I try to render to 10bit.


Thanks, I'll double check banding in 10bits with 385.28 when I'm back in a few days.

In the meantime please could you not force 8bits in HDR passthrough, unless/until the bug is confirmed with all driver versions and not just the latest 39x.xx?

Maybe the banding in 10bits was introduced in the driver at the same time they borked the levels?

Also does your display support HDR 12bits natively?

Quite a few people with 10bits displays have been reporting issues using 12bits with nVidia, but this might simply be because the display doesn't support 12bits natively and the banding is introduced by the display itself when using HDR passthrough. When converted to SDR, the path might be different and the banding might not occur.

Only trying to find reasons why it might not be a universal bug, even if you can reproduce 100% with your set-up/display.

[madshi]

Thanks, I'll double check banding in 10bits with 385.28 when I'm back in a few days.

In the meantime please could you not force 8bits in HDR passthrough, unless/until the bug is confirmed with all driver versions and not just the latest 39x.xx?

Maybe the banding in 10bits was introduced in the driver at the same time they borked the levels?

Also does your display support HDR 12bits natively?

Quite a few people with 10bits displays have been reporting issues using 12bits with nVidia, but this might simply be because the display doesn't support 12bits natively and the banding is introduced by the display itself when using HDR passthrough. When converted to SDR, the path might be different and the banding might not occur.

Only trying to find reasons why it might not be a universal bug, even if you can reproduce 100% with your set-up/display.
Next build is not coming for at least a week, anyway.

I see banding in 10bit fullscreen windowed mode, but *not* in 10bit fullscreen exclusive mode, which means the display can't be at fault.

[Manni]

Next build is not coming for at least a week, anyway.

I see banding in 10bit fullscreen windowed mode, but *not* in 10bit fullscreen exclusive mode, which means the display can't be at fault.

Okay, do you have a preferred pattern/clip to test banding? I use many but I'd like to be sure the same test you use is passed/fails here.

[pankov]

The official build has a bug which can sometimes introduce a bit of banding when doing HDR -> SDR conversion. That's already fixed in this test build from AVSForum:

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrTest5.rar

This build still shows some weirdness for the blue, but the other colors should be fine. I'm not completely sure why the problem with blue happens, will have to investigate.
Confirmed - almost perfect except the blue.

I've said it a thousand times. 8bit doesn't introduce banding. Even 4bit doesn't introduce banding. That's what we have dithering for.
Principally I do agree with you that dithering will help a lot and that's why I mostly don't mind going back to 8bit for both SDR and HDR with the current fiasco with NVidia/Windows support but I'm kind of reluctant to lose that many gradation steps by enveloping every SDR BT.709 in BT.2020 ... or DCI-P3 ... or am I talking nonsense ... again?

HDR calibration is a mess. IMHO the best workaround is probably to let madVR convert HDR to SDR, and then you can just run the converted SDR video through a conventional SDR 3dlut.
But I want HDR on my TV ... and I want it to automatically switch to HDR mode with its increased OLED Light level and wider color gamut, etc ... I think ... and to be honest I don't have any experience with 3dluts. I'm kind of lost now and I might need some help to start from scratch with all this SDR/HDR/BT.2020/DCI-P3 mix. There are so many "variables" on the PC side and almost as many on the TV side ... especially with my latest finding that in "PC" mode (on LG's 2017 OLEDs this is accomplished by changing the icon for this HDMI input) I get some dull colors *and* banding which vanishes if I simply change the icon for this input in the TV settings ... but then I loose 4:4:4 support ... and I'm mad ... lost.
:stupid:

That depends. Are we talking about passing HDR through to the display? Or letting madVR convert HDR to SDR?
I'm talking about HDR passthrough mode (to my LG B7 OLED) ... and I think I must have mentioned it before to avoid the confusion. I guess my totally unrelated complaint about the HDR to SDR conversion banding mislead you. Sorry.


Just double click on the madHcCtrl tray icon.
Yes, I know I can do this but in order to do it I have to exit fullscreen mode and then go back in which temporarily alters the scaling algorithms and resets the ques (drops frames, etc) and ... I think ... it's not convenient at all - that's why I asked if there is a real reason the have the small window in-between the player's filter menu and the actual target. I've lived with it so many years that I've got used to it but in the last few days I've been improving my HTPC cooling and I've been reconfiguring madVR alot and it was quite a nag.

[el Filou]

Yes, I know I can do this but in order to do it I have to exit fullscreen modeJust press Ctrl+S

[Asmodian]

I don't know, I've only tested the one driver I have currently installed (390.65). It's 100% reproducable for me with this driver. I get banding free 10bit output in SDR, but as soon as I activate Nvidia's HDR passthrough, I get banding when I try to render to 10bit.

I was able to reproduce this with 391.35 but only when I had the mouse cursor over the display. In 10-bit FSE the mouse did not cause banding and fullscreen windowed 10-bit looked the same as FSE when the mouse cursor was moved to my other monitor. This did not happen when in SDR mode.

especially with my latest finding that in "PC" mode (on LG's 2017 OLEDs this is accomplished by changing the icon for this HDMI input) I get some dull colors *and* banding which vanishes if I simply change the icon for this input in the TV settings ... but then I loose 4:4:4 support ... and I'm mad ... lost.
:stupid:


Yes. This annoyed me greatly. I can use a 3DLUT but the color volume is so much smaller that it clips sometimes and it doesn't look as good as passthrough in non-PC mode.

This means that, for me at least, LG's 2017 OLEDs can only do HDR in 4:2:2 and I have to go into the inputs menu and change the icon when using HDR. Input lag goes up a bunch too because only game mode, with its terrible white point, has low input lag if it isn't icon'ed "PC". :mad:

[pankov]

Okay, do you have a preferred pattern/clip to test banding? I use many but I'd like to be sure the same test you use is passed/fails here.
Since the discussion is more about 10bit support than banding you might try Mehanik's HDR10 test patterns that I wrote about a few posts ago. There is a dedicated section (folder) exactly for this - "03. Grayscale" -> "04. 10bit test".
Using these I think I confirmed for myself that LG OLED's "PC Mode" when used with HDR content is total garbage. Yes we do get 4:4:4 chroma support but at the cost of washed out colors and lack of 10bit gradation.
Again using these video files I think I can say that NVidia's conversion from madVR's 10bit output to 8bit display output in 2160p50/60 is not at all bad. The reason I say this is that as we all know the HDMI 2.0 spec doesn't support RGB 2160p at 50/60Hz 10/12bit and the drivers silently switch to 8bit behind madVR's back but nonetheless I do see some gradation and not clipping which might mean that they are doing some dithering ... or some other kind of "magic".


Just press Ctrl+S
If only I had a keyboard around
;)
I'm kidding ... kind of ... Thank you for reminding me about this shortcut (a bit generic but still working) but to be honest very often I control/re-configure my player and/or direct show filters only using the mouse (a one from Logitech that has horizontal scrolling and a couple of additional buttons) since that's more convenient and because the keyboard for the HTPC is usually hidden in some drawer.

[pankov]

This means that, for me at least, LG's 2017 OLEDs can only do HDR in 4:2:2 and I have to go into the inputs menu and change the icon when using HDR.
To be honest ... after some additional tests ... I think that even 10bit SDR is not OK from "banding" (>8bit support) point of view ... or it might be just the 12bit that NVidia offers !?!? May be in PC mode LG have disabled all/most of the additional processing and since the display is native 10bit if it's fed with 12bit signal it doesn't downconvert it in high quality ... this is a wild speculation on my part but sounds logical to me.
Does anybody know if Intel (HD4000) can output 10bit 2160p?
... or is there a user with AMD and one of the 2017 LG OLEDs here that can test this for us?

[Asmodian]

I believe these TVs simply suck with >8bit input but I do get noticeably more banding in the situation I described above. As I move the mouse back and forth with paused video some banding appears and disappears. There is still some, more than in 8-bit mode, but that is due to the TV itself instead of this issue. :p

[nevcairiel]

Strange. I'm not sure exactly how JRiver draws subtitles. I think it uses one of my OSD interfaces, but I'm not sure which one.

We use the ISubRenderProvider interface

[Manni]

I was able to reproduce this with 391.35 but only when I had the mouse cursor over the display. In 10-bit FSE the mouse did not cause banding and fullscreen windowed 10-bit looked the same as FSE when the mouse cursor was moved to my other monitor. This did not happen when in SDR mode.


Thanks, this might explain why I never see banding, as I never use the mouse (except when testing). I only use my remotes / ipad, even when selecting audio tracks / subtitles as the picture is projected on my screen and I use MyMovies as a front end. I'll look for this in a couple of days. I only use the mouse (often with MadVR not in full screen) when testing as I did recently, but when it's like this I don't look for PQ as the image is downscaled anyway.

Hopefully Madshi can reproduce this and refrain from disabling 10bits universally in 10bits windowed mode on windows 10 with nVidia.

Since the discussion is more about 10bit support than banding you might try Mehanik's HDR10 test patterns that I wrote about a few posts ago. There is a dedicated section (folder) exactly for this - "03. Grayscale" -> "04. 10bit test".
Using these I think I confirmed for myself that LG OLED's "PC Mode" when used with HDR content is total garbage. Yes we do get 4:4:4 chroma support but at the cost of washed out colors and lack of 10bit gradation.
Again using these video files I think I can say that NVidia's conversion from madVR's 10bit output to 8bit display output in 2160p50/60 is not at all bad. The reason I say this is that as we all know the HDMI 2.0 spec doesn't support RGB 2160p at 50/60Hz 10/12bit and the drivers silently switch to 8bit behind madVR's back but nonetheless I do see some gradation and not clipping which might mean that they are doing some dithering ... or some other kind of "magic".


Yes we know that 4K60p 4:4:4 can only be done in 8bits due to HDMI 2.0 limitations, this is why you should use profiles and switch to 8bits dithering in that case, as you don't want the driver to dither behind MadVR's back.

[madshi]

I was able to reproduce this with 391.35 but only when I had the mouse cursor over the display. In 10-bit FSE the mouse did not cause banding and fullscreen windowed 10-bit looked the same as FSE when the mouse cursor was moved to my other monitor. This did not happen when in SDR mode.
Please check the OSD while you move the mouse. Does it say 10bit the whole time? Or does it switch to 8bit when the banding goes away?

Yes. This annoyed me greatly. I can use a 3DLUT but the color volume is so much smaller that it clips sometimes and it doesn't look as good as passthrough in non-PC mode.
Not sure what you mean with clipping here?

If passthrough looks better that probably has nothing to do with technical limitations of the 3DLUT processing, I would guess.

Thank you for reminding me about this shortcut (a bit generic but still working) but to be honest very often I control/re-configure my player and/or direct show filters only using the mouse (a one from Logitech that has horizontal scrolling and a couple of additional buttons) since that's more convenient and because the keyboard for the HTPC is usually hidden in some drawer.
So you're not happy with double clicking on the tray icon, *nor* using a keyboard shortcut (which btw you can edit in the madVR settings)? <sigh> No way to make you happy then, it seems. If you want a direct way to open the madVR settings from the right click context menu, you'll have to talk to the developer of your media player. The context menu is the reponsibility of the media player, not madVR. So it's out of my hands.

To be honest ... after some additional tests ... I think that even 10bit SDR is not OK from "banding" (>8bit support) point of view ... or it might be just the 12bit that NVidia offers !?!? May be in PC mode LG have disabled all/most of the additional processing and since the display is native 10bit if it's fed with 12bit signal it doesn't downconvert it in high quality ... this is a wild speculation on my part but sounds logical to me.
Does anybody know if Intel (HD4000) can output 10bit 2160p?
... or is there a user with AMD and one of the 2017 LG OLEDs here that can test this for us?
AFAIK, there's nothing wrong with Nvidia 10bit SDR. Either it's a configuration/user error (see FAQ in the 2nd post of this thread), or your display doesn't really support 10bit/12bit properly.

We use the ISubRenderProvider interface
Are we talking LAV's subtitles or JRiver's subtitles? Didn't JRiver use the OsdSetBitmap() API for subtitles in the past? Of course ISubRenderProvider is the better choice for this purpose. Anyway, I don't see any reason why ISubRenderProvider would result in dramatically higher rendering times on some PCs. Can you reproduce the reported problem? Or did users report this problem to you at some point? Or is this news to you, as well?

To the users who have high rendering times with JRiver's subtitles: Do you have the same problem when using XySubFilter in MPC-HC?

[nevcairiel]

Are we talking LAV's subtitles or JRiver's subtitles? Didn't JRiver use the OsdSetBitmap() API for subtitles in the past? Of course ISubRenderProvider is the better choice for this purpose. Anyway, I don't see any reason why ISubRenderProvider would result in dramatically higher rendering times on some PCs. Can you reproduce the reported problem? Or did users report this problem to you at some point? Or is this news to you, as well?

JRiver subtitles. We switched to that interface when we implemented 3D video rendering, because the old one had timing issues with that for some reason, and it was on my list to do for a long time anyway. I've heard rare reports of issues on low-end hardware before, but never really fully explained, and its hard to tell if their Intel iGPU might just be overwhelmed with madVR. I could possibly imagine bad CPU performance since we draw subtitles to the output size, but GPU issues I have no idea about.

[madshi]

JRiver subtitles. We switched to that interface when we implemented 3D video rendering, because the old one had timing issues with that for some reason, and it was on my list to do for a long time anyway. I've heard rare reports of issues on low-end hardware before, but never really fully explained, and its hard to tell if their Intel iGPU might just be overwhelmed with madVR. I could possibly imagine bad CPU performance since we draw subtitles to the output size, but GPU issues I have no idea about.
Ah, makes sense! What happens if JRiver plays DVDs? Do the subtitles come from LAV in that situation or from JRiver?

[nevcairiel]

Ah, makes sense! What happens if JRiver plays DVDs? Do the subtitles come from LAV in that situation or from JRiver?

Actual DVDs in Navigation-mode are special and should come from LAV, not any different from using it in MPC-HC or such.

[madshi]

Actual DVDs in Navigation-mode are special and should come from LAV, not any different from using it in MPC-HC or such.
Ok, so questions for those users who have problems with rendering times with subtitles in JRiver:

1) Does the problem occur with all types of subtitles (DVD, Blu-Ray PGS, external SRT), or only with some?

2) If DVD subtitles are affected: Does the problem occur when playing DVDs with subtitles with LAV, using MPC-HC?

3) If SRT subtitles are affected: Does the problem occur when playing videos with SRT subtitles, using XySubFilter in MPC-HC?

Just collecting some more information...

[stefanelli73]

To me only when upscaling blu ray to 3840x2160 and with uhd

[pankov]

So you're not happy with double clicking on the tray icon, *nor* using a keyboard shortcut (which btw you can edit in the madVR settings)? <sigh> No way to make you happy then, it seems. If you want a direct way to open the madVR settings from the right click context menu, you'll have to talk to the developer of your media player. The context menu is the reponsibility of the media player, not madVR. So it's out of my hands.
I'm starting to think that I'm failing to express my point so I'll try one final time and then leave this topic for good.
I'm used to having direct access to the filter properties/settings from the standard DirectShow filter properties menu that almost all decent media players provide. At least that's the case with all other filters/renderers that I use ... or have ever tried. Having this standard functionality seems to be very convenient since it doesn't require keyboard interaction in all the player that I know/have used and I don't understand why it would be the media player's responsibility to do something special for madVR ... not that I think this great piece of software doesn't deserve special attention ;) ... Having that in mind and also the case that the tray icon may not at all be visible (as in disabled from madHcCtrl) I was thinking that it would be better if madVR behaved like all other DirectShow filters in this regard and directly show ... all pun intended ;) ... it's settings ... of courser if it's technically possible ... on the other hand I may be missing some benefits from having this transitional window.
So, dear madVR users, do you use this window for something else than to reach madVR's settings? Would you mind if it's gone and you directly access the settings from the filter properties menu of your media player?


AFAIK, there's nothing wrong with Nvidia 10bit SDR. Either it's a configuration/user error (see FAQ in the 2nd post of this thread), or your display doesn't really support 10bit/12bit properly.

I think it's the display and only in it's "PC Mode" that's at fault. The question is if it's only at 12bit input or also at 10bit.
btw
madshi,
what display/TV are your using for 10bit/12bit testing?

[huhn]

To me only when upscaling blu ray to 3840x2160 and with uhd

can you create a folder with "ShowRenderSteps" in the madVR folder and create a screen of the OSD(control+j) with the problem?

[madshi]

To me only when upscaling blu ray to 3840x2160 and with uhd
So not with DVD? And do you get the same problem in MPC-HC, when using XySubFilter?

I'm used to having direct access to the filter properties/settings from the standard DirectShow filter properties menu that almost all decent media players provide.
Yes, but that's a window provided by the media player or by DirectShow (not sure which), into which the DirectShow filter projects its settings controls as a sub-window. This wouldn't work well for madVR, because my settings are very complex. Basically the whole current madVR settings dialog would have to be pressed into one tab of the DirectShow filter properties window. Which doesn't make too much sense.

what display/TV are your using for 10bit/12bit testing?
Sony 4K LCD.

[pankov]

So not with DVD? And do you get the same problem in MPC-HC, when using XySubFilter?


Yes, but that's a window provided by the media player or by DirectShow (not sure which), into which the DirectShow filter projects its settings controls as a sub-window. This wouldn't work well for madVR, because my settings are very complex. Basically the whole current madVR settings dialog would have to be pressed into one tab of the DirectShow filter properties window. Which doesn't make too much sense.
There are many multi-tab filter properties windows but I do see that it'll be borderline impossible to cramp up all madVR's settings in such a way ... and definitely not worth the effort ... but what about my other proposal - just to show the current madHcCtrl screen automatically in the "OnShow"/"OnCreate" event of the current properties window and just directly hide/close it? Is this also not possible?


Sony 4K LCD.
Just out of curiosity which model it is and do you only use it for testing or you actually like the picture quality and both it for real usage?

[madshi]

There are many multi-tab filter properties windows but I do see that it'll be borderline impossible to cramp up all madVR's settings in such a way ... and definitely not worth the effort ... but what about my other proposal - just to show the current madHcCtrl screen automatically in the "OnShow"/"OnCreate" event of the current properties window and just directly hide/close it? Is this also not possible?
I don't like the idea of automatically closing a window that wasn't created by me and isn't owned by me. Also, that window contains a pin information tab (at least in MPC-HC/BE) which the user might want to see. So closing the window doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Just out of curiosity which model it is and do you only use it for testing or you actually like the picture quality and both it for real usage?
I don't have the model number in mind right now. It's an older model which supports both HDR and 3D, which is why I bought it, so I could test both with one display. I don't think it's a great display because the viewing angle is terrible. If I were to buy a flat panel display for actual viewing, it would have to be OLED.

[stefanelli73]

So not with DVD? And do you get the same problem in MPC-HC, when using XySubFilter?


Yes, but that's a window provided by the media player or by DirectShow (not sure which), into which the DirectShow filter projects its settings controls as a sub-window. This wouldn't work well for madVR, because my settings are very complex. Basically the whole current madVR settings dialog would have to be pressed into one tab of the DirectShow filter properties window. Which doesn't make too much sense.


Sony 4K LCD.

No, in MPC-BE i haven't this problem only with jriver

[pankov]

I don't like the idea of automatically closing a window that wasn't created by me and isn't owned by me. Also, that window contains a pin information tab (at least in MPC-HC/BE) which the user might want to see. So closing the window doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Agreed. Closing the topic and thanks for your patience.
:thanks:

[madshi]

No, in MPC-BE i haven't this problem only with jriver
Are you using XySubFilter in MPC-BE, or the internal subtitle renderer, or VSFilter? MPC-BE supports multiple different subtitle renderers, so that's important. I've asked for a test with XySubFilter, because that one uses the same subtitle interface to communicate with madVR as JRiver does.

If the problem does not occur with MPC-BE + XySubFilter, which increase in render times do you get in MPC-BE? None at all? Or very very small?

[nevcairiel]

If the problem only occurs at 4K, there may be troubles with rendering the image fast enough and/or uploading an extra 4K image. Maybe it should not render subtitles to output resolution but let madVR upscale it, at least over a certain degree.

[sneaker_ger]

Is there no cropping or simple compression like RLE for subtitle uploading?

[madshi]

Do you render PGS Blu-Ray subtitles to output resolution in JRiver?

[nevcairiel]

Yes, all subtitles are rendered to output resolution because thats far simpler (and how the old API worked).
They are also rendered onto a full frame size canvas, so uploading would always entail a full UHD frame.

[madshi]

Yeah, I can imagine that being stressful for low powered GPUs. I think XySubFilter usually renders bitmap type subtitles unscaled, which should save some performance.

But you do re-render only when the subtitles change, not for every video frame, right?

[Asmodian]

Please check the OSD while you move the mouse. Does it say 10bit the whole time? Or does it switch to 8bit when the banding goes away?

It says 10-bit the entire time, I do most of my video watching with the OSD open. ;)

Also, the banding doesn't go away to the same degree it does when switching to 8 bit. These TVs don't do well with 10 bit input but I can definitely notice extra bands when moving the mouse over the image in full screen windowed 10 bit that doesn't happen when in exclusive 10 bit.

Not sure what you mean with clipping here?

If passthrough looks better that probably has nothing to do with technical limitations of the 3DLUT processing, I would guess.

Sorry, nothing is wrong with the 3DLUT or anything before the TV. This was me bemoaning LG's less than ideal HDR tone mapping while in PC mode. In PC HDR mode the color volume is below 50% of what Calman thinks DCI-P3 HDR should be, even when scaling to the TVs max brightness.

I can make it look similar to how it looks when not in PC mode, with a 3DLUT, but the total coverage is small enough that even when using perceptual intents extremely bright and/or colored pixels have to be squished enough that I do get visible banding/clipping of highlights during real movies. This is only and issue if I am using PC mode but all other modes use 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. :(

[nevcairiel]

Yeah, I can imagine that being stressful for low powered GPUs. I think XySubFilter usually renders bitmap type subtitles unscaled, which should save some performance.

But you do re-render only when the subtitles change, not for every video frame, right?

Yes, only on changes (unless thats broken).

[ashlar42]

Sooo... is nevcariel working for JRiver? madshi, you too? I don't use it but if both of you work for them I might consider buying the product to support you for all the goods you freely give away. Hope it's not a "bad" question for whatever reason.

[nevcairiel]

I do, madshi does not.

[ashlar42]

I do, madshi does not.Thanks for your answer. I'll have a strong good look at it.

As a Kodi user, unfortunately, I'm used my 10 feet interface and everything. So if I buy it it's just to offer support for all you've given to the community (maybe you have a donation account, I'll check that too).
Sorry everyone for the offtopic, btw.

[madshi]

Yes, only on changes (unless thats broken).
In that case I'm not sure why there's a problem with Blu-Ray subtitles. They should only change very rarely. Max 2x per second or so!

As a Kodi user, unfortunately, I'm used my 10 feet interface and everything.
I believe JRiver has a 10 foot interface, too. Haven't personally tried that interface yet, though. Not sure how customizable it is and how many skins are available, compared to Kodi.

[sauma144]

MediaPortal has a big interface too, however I don't know if there is a x64 release.

[mrmojo666]

MediaPortal has a big interface too, however I don't know if there is a x64 release.
AFAIK nope, Mp is 32bit application

[kalston]

Ok, so questions for those users who have problems with rendering times with subtitles in JRiver:

1) Does the problem occur with all types of subtitles (DVD, Blu-Ray PGS, external SRT), or only with some?

2) If DVD subtitles are affected: Does the problem occur when playing DVDs with subtitles with LAV, using MPC-HC?

3) If SRT subtitles are affected: Does the problem occur when playing videos with SRT subtitles, using XySubFilter in MPC-HC?

Just collecting some more information...

OK, I just tested different subtitle types (DVD, blu-ray, SRT) and it makes no difference. Tested different files too, it's all very consistent.

With MPC-HC & its internal subtitle renderer (and a full LAV+madvr chain) no issues at all, on any file and with any type of subs. Completely negligible impact on performance.

Now, with XySubFilter (had to install that :p ) and MPC-HC, yes, I am seeing a performance hit (rendering times in madVR overlay), but it seems a bit smaller (about 4-5ms instead of 9-10).

[Warner306]

If you haven’t already, enabling the trade quality for performance setting related to subtitles will give you a small performance boost.

[kalston]

If you haven’t already, enabling the trade quality for performance setting related to subtitles will give you a small performance boost.

Yeah, that's already done. In fact, I ticked a lot of those options on my laptop :p

It is not my primary media playback device by any means and I'm not sure how many people are affected by this anyway. I've never bothered to report it before for that reason.

[oldpainlesskodi]

On Windows 10 - I finely managed to fix my incorrect and overblown tone mapping for HDR and SDR material. I have been reading up on the whole SRBG forced system wide ICC debacle. So, I disabled my device in the Colour Management settings, and disabled WindowsColorSystem from starting at boot.

Taken from the Nvidia forum on this issue (it may also apply to AMD users) -

"Open Start Menu and type in "Task Scheduler" Select and open "Task Scheduler"
In the Task Schedule window navigate to (Task Schedular Library > Microsoft > Windows > WindowsColorSystem)
In the task list locate "Calibration Loader" right click this task, and select disable


Notes:
The problem originates from the way Windows handles its own color profile settings on user log in. Windows task is a bit slow when doing this so it ends up reverting any color profiles setup through other applications. The Nvidia color profile task seems to run faster than the Windows color calibration so it ends up reverting the changes. I imagine this could fix other issues with other programs that manage color profiles as well."

Once I did this and rebooted, all issue resolved and its like night and day, in more ways than one.

May help others.

K

[mclingo]

On Windows 10 - I finely managed to fix my incorrect and overblown tone mapping for HDR and SDR material. I have been reading up on the whole SRBG forced system wide ICC debacle. So, I disabled my device in the Colour Management settings, and disabled WindowsColorSystem from starting at boot.

Taken from the Nvidia forum on this issue (it may also apply to AMD users) -

"Open Start Menu and type in "Task Scheduler" Select and open "Task Scheduler"
In the Task Schedule window navigate to (Task Schedular Library > Microsoft > Windows > WindowsColorSystem)
In the task list locate "Calibration Loader" right click this task, and select disable


Notes:
The problem originates from the way Windows handles its own color profile settings on user log in. Windows task is a bit slow when doing this so it ends up reverting any color profiles setup through other applications. The Nvidia color profile task seems to run faster than the Windows color calibration so it ends up reverting the changes. I imagine this could fix other issues with other programs that manage color profiles as well."

Once I did this and rebooted, all issue resolved and its like night and day, in more ways than one.

May help others.

K

interesting, i'm going to try this to see if it resolves my overblown reds on my RX card with MADVR and D3D11, I can confirm the same task is there on my AMD system

[mrmojo666]

interesting, i'm going to try this to see if it resolves my overblown reds on my RX card with MADVR and D3D11, I can confirm the same task is there on my AMD system

I was thinking the same , i have similar problem with FSE + DX11 and an AMD RX460

[stefanelli73]

If the problem does not occur with MPC-BE + XySubFilter, which increase in render times do you get in MPC-BE? None at all? Or very very small?

No problem does not occur with MPC-BE + XySubFilter and render times they are the same as jriver, without increasing, but in this case the image doesn't slow

[mclingo]

I was thinking the same , i have similar problem with FSE + DX11 and an AMD RX460

no joy for me, didnt work i'm afraid, I have the same setup as you know, I also moved to an RX460.

Just had to move back to 18.2.2 all all 18.3x drivers cause my PC to hang, nearly all > 16.8.2 drivers had the same issue for me, I was stuck on 16.8.1 for a while.

I tried to setup profiles to deal with turning D3D11 off and on in MADVR, worked perfectly in MPC-BE but profiles for those settings dont wonk in my main player KODI DS. I decided to go back to setting up the calibration as DCI-P3 in MADVR so I dont have to faff about turning D3D11 off and on. These are all driver issues apparently, even though I havent yet found one that works fixes this so we must have had this issue for a long time now.

[mrmojo666]

no joy for me, didnt work i'm afraid, I have the same setup as you know, I also moved to an RX460.

Just had to move back to 18.2.2 all all 18.3x drivers cause my PC to hang, nearly all > 16.8.2 drivers had the same issue for me, I was stuck on 16.8.1 for a while.

I tried to setup profiles to deal with turning D3D11 off and on in MADVR, worked perfectly in MPC-BE but profiles for those settings dont wonk in my main player KODI DS. I decided to go back to setting up the calibration as DCI-P3 in MADVR so I dont have to faff about turning D3D11 off and on. These are all driver issues apparently, even though I havent yet found one that works fixes this so we must have had this issue for a long time now.

my experience is slightly different, wth the latest 18.3.4 i dint' have anymore hungs or other ghaphics glitches that i had with all the rest of 18.3.x. Maybe my oversaturated color with dx11 and FSE is different from your, but seems it worked with the workaround proposed. Also i use differet player, i'm on Mediaportal. I 'll le t you know in case it was just a palcebo effect :)

[mclingo]

my experience is slightly different, wth the latest 18.3.4 i dint' have anymore hungs or other ghaphics glitches that i had with all the rest of 18.3.x. Maybe my oversaturated color with dx11 and FSE is different from your, but seems it worked with the workaround proposed. Also i use differet player, i'm on Mediaportal. I 'll le t you know in case it was just a palcebo effect :)

it could be the same issue simply manifesting itself differently due to our slightly different setups / displays.

Made absolutely no difference on mine though, the difference is very obvious on mine though, my reds are very overblown though, its hard to get an image of this with me mobile as it tends to correct for issues like this so images look nowhere near as bad.

I'm posting this as a comparison shot, this isnt how it looks in person, the correct image looks at lot more natural and the red image is a lot more red.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/esxrcwdcv38osyt/Image1.jpg?dl=0

[mrmojo666]

it could be the same issue simply manifesting itself differently due to our slightly different setups / displays.

Made absolutely no difference on mine though, the difference is very obvious on mine though, my reds are very overblown though, its hard to get an image of this with me mobile as it tends to correct for issues like this so images look nowhere near as bad.

I'm posting this as a comparison shot, this isnt how it looks in person, the correct image looks at lot more natural and the red image is a lot more red.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/esxrcwdcv38osyt/Image1.jpg?dl=0Seems the same of my problem at this point icm not sure that it was the workaround, maybe the 18.3.4, did you have tried?

[mclingo]

Seems the same of my problem at this point icm not sure that it was the workaround, maybe the 18.3.4, did you have tried?

Hi, yeah I tried latest driver before I switched back to 18.2.2 so resolve me pc freezing issues.

I'm going to wait until the next driver release and test it again. Its a bit odd we are the only two reporting this or is it a case that there are still very few users with these variables - AMD RX card + WINDOWS 10 creative + DIRECT3D11 +HDR compatible 4K TV.