madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Hypernova]

I would like to ask for suggestions from follow madVR users, especially those who have/had both AMD and Nvidia card.

As AMD 68xx series launch draw near, I have to decide what I will get. One thing that interest me in Nvidia driver quite awhile is the "Custom Resolution". My question is, is it worth going to the green side for that as far as using madVR concern? I have a projector that show up both 24p and 23.976p in MPC-HC, but I think it actually use 23.90fps for both. Is custom resolution let me fine tuning the refresh rate?

This is probably the biggest factor whether I'll get GTX 460 1g or 6850. Thank you in advance. Hopefully this is not too off-topic.

[Mangix]

it's not. nvidia cards have too high a power consumption for that. powerstrip can do custom resolutions if i remember correctly.

[Hypernova]

it's not. nvidia cards have too high a power consumption for that. powerstrip can do custom resolutions if i remember correctly.

Thanks for your input. This is my main desktop (meaning I'll play game and stuff) and not just HTPC, so power consumption is still in line. Note that my AMD option is 6850.

I heard that powerstrip doesn't really work with Vista/7. Also, it's not free.

[de66ka]

I would buy the Nvidia, lowering the power consumption using Riva-Tuner. If this fails there is the possibility to flash a "custom" bios lowering voltage, core and shader clocks.
The high clocks (high voltage) are only necessary for gaming, not for watching HD using MadVR.
I'm using an underclocked Nvidia 240GT. My opinion is, that the playback results are better than AMD 4er or 5er Series cards, which I've tested before in my HTPC (HFX mini, passiv).

uuuuupppppppssssssssss, too late. Thought you would use your system as a HTPC only.
de66ka

[Mark_A_W]

Powerstrip only works up to 4xxx cards, which is why I have a 4850 instead of a 5750.


I'm afraid that if you need a custom res, the only choice going forward is the Nvidia tool. AMD needs to lift their game.

[madshi]

Wait for v0.35 before deciding, though... :D

[Razoola]

Wait for v0.35 before deciding, though... :D

I'm a waiting, as you have probably seen some of us have had problems with 034.

[noee]

Wait for v0.35 before deciding, though... :D

It will be interesting to see if custom resolutions from madVR will work with the HD2600XT (the card I am currently using).

I've tried just about every tool out there (including powerstrip) and have had limited success in a dual-mon set up with XPSP3. I have not even tried with Win7, but then, at the very least, madVR is working very well with 23.976 fps @ ~23.976Hz on my secondary mon with Aero OFF.

I'm still amazed that this card does as well as it does being 4 generations back...

[6233638]

it's not. nvidia cards have too high a power consumption for that. powerstrip can do custom resolutions if i remember correctly.160W vs 151W not a big deal. Idle power is very low on the GTX 460 too. GF104 is very efficient.

Older GF100-based cards though.. very bad. (GTX465 and up)

[pirlouy]

Wait for v0.35 before deciding, though... :D
Nice teasing ! :D

@Guns N' Roses: it's part of the known problem mentionned earlier: it's called tearing. Reading that thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=152415) will help you I think.

[Mark_A_W]

It will be interesting to see if custom resolutions from madVR will work with the HD2600XT (the card I am currently using).

I've tried just about every tool out there (including powerstrip) and have had limited success in a dual-mon set up with XPSP3. I have not even tried with Win7, but then, at the very least, madVR is working very well with 23.976 fps @ ~23.976Hz on my secondary mon with Aero OFF.

I'm still amazed that this card does as well as it does being 4 generations back...



I've always run a dual monitor setup with Powerstrip, including running a custom interlaced res on one monitor.

What's the problem? It takes time and patience to tweak the timings, but it's all possible.

[Owyn]

Wait for v0.35 before deciding, though... :D

any plans on my reported KMP bugs? ^_^:thanks:

[Mangix]

I would buy the Nvidia, lowering the power consumption using Riva-Tuner. If this fails there is the possibility to flash a "custom" bios lowering voltage, core and shader clocks.
The high clocks (high voltage) are only necessary for gaming, not for watching HD using MadVR.
I'm using an underclocked Nvidia 240GT. My opinion is, that the playback results are better than AMD 4er or 5er Series cards, which I've tested before in my HTPC (HFX mini, passiv).

uuuuupppppppssssssssss, too late. Thought you would use your system as a HTPC only.
de66ka

i own a geforce 240 gt as well and the power consumption on it is really good. but then again the 240 was made to be power efficient(sort of new architecture, 40nm, etc...). but with the 240 you get no dx11 tesselation. something to think about...

160W vs 151W not a big deal. Idle power is very low on the GTX 460 too. GF104 is very efficient.

Older GF100-based cards though.. very bad. (GTX465 and up)even the newer parts are pretty bad.

http://pcper.com/article.php?aid=1013&type=expert&pid=5

it uses more power AND on the previous pages with the benchmarks it doesn't score as high as it should. sad part is performance is worse than my 240...

[Hypernova]

Thanks again guys for your input. I would like to hear a bit more about the custom resolution though. Does it actually let you fine tune the framerate? Is it help making madVR more smooth?

Wait for v0.35 before deciding, though... :D

Your suggestion shall be my command. :)

[6233638]

even the newer parts are pretty bad.

http://pcper.com/article.php?aid=1013&type=expert&pid=5

it uses more power AND on the previous pages with the benchmarks it doesn't score as high as it should. sad part is performance is worse than my 240...This is not a GTX 460 or GF104 part. As I said many cards in the current range are not power efficient. The GTX 460 that was being discussed is very efficient.

Perhaps slightly less efficient than the new generation of AMD cards coming out tomorrow but still very efficient nonetheless and more suited to HTPC use with their custom resolution support amongst other things.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/07/12/nvidia-geforce-gtx-460-768mb-gpu-review/11

[nevcairiel]

The GT430 is a GF108, which is about the same efficiency. Its a HTPC card, who cares about peak power consumption at 100% load? Idle performance is the lowest of the whole test. Too bad such benchmarking pages always forget to measure power needs at HTPC work load, decoding some video, or something.

Granted, it could perform better in gaming, NVIDIA cut the memory bandwidth a bit too hard. But for HTPC work load, it will do fine, and continue to do so in the future. It just needs a driver update that fixes the cadence issues (the current driver has them disable for the slower cards because they didn't properly evaluate their potential yet) - which won't be a problem if you always run on the exact framerate for a movie :) (I would also wager that the cadence detection isn't needed when using madVR - maybe madshi can comment on that)

A GTX460 is overkill for a HTPC, if all you do is watching movies. Its a gaming card.

[Mangix]

Thanks again guys for your input. I would like to hear a bit more about the custom resolution though. Does it actually let you fine tune the framerate? Is it help making madVR more smooth?



Your suggestion shall be my command. :)

if you really care a lot about having really accurate framerates, get the nvidia. i have a gt 240 and with it, i just go to control panel and make 3 custom resolutions(75,72,and 60 at 1680x1050). i use the manual option to set finer fps(59.94 and 71.928). it's dead simple to do with nvidia drivers. i also select cvt-rb since my monitor is an lcd.

as for smoothness, it is. combined with madvr and it's good. going the nvidia route also gives you the benefit of 3d. but 3 displays from ati is pretty nice :)

[Hypernova]

Thank you one more time for the suggestions. I'll see what madshi comes up with 0.35 and decide.

I actually want a gaming card. That's why my choice is 460 or 6850. This is not a dedicated HTPC, but an all-purpose machine. I'll stop here though since I'm very close to off-topic.

[Razoola]

I will be amased if 035 has options to add custom resolutions. I more though madshi was leaning on gpu horsepower so I took his comment to mean more gpu hungry resizers.

Even nvidia cannot get it right when it comes to custom resolutions, what they have in their control panel is broke and has been for a while. You can add custom resolutions just to loose hicolor in standard resolutions for example. I think they are looking into it though.

[nevcairiel]

You can solve the color problem by creating custom resolutions for your "standard" resolutions as well. I created 24p, 50Hz and 60Hz resolutions, and i can't complain about anything now =)

[Hypernova]

Well my guess is not new resizer, since I can't think of anything that is power hungry enough to stress either 460 or 6850. I'm thinking more in line of he has a new trick to deal with unmatched framerate since that would make my concern on custom resolution invalid, therefore I can decide on other factors instead.

[Razoola]

Well my guess is not new resizer, since I can't think of anything that is power hungry enough to stress either 460 or 6850. I'm thinking more in line of he has a new trick to deal with unmatched framerate since that would make my concern on custom resolution invalid, therefore I can decide on other factors instead.

That would be mega. Perhaps this is what this audio jitter algo is for.... Perhaps he plans the opposite of reclock, ie match video speed to actual monitor refresh rate and then trick the audio to keep sync.

[scoz]

That would be mega. Perhaps this is what this audio jitter algo is for.... Perhaps he plans the opposite of reclock, ie match video speed to actual monitor refresh rate and then trick the audio to keep sync.
I'm pretty sure thats exactly what Reclock does... So more just incorporating it in to madVR, which I think madshi has said many times he won't do.

[Razoola]

I'm pretty sure thats exactly what Reclock does... So more just incorporating it in to madVR, which I think madshi has said many times he won't do.

I though reclock adjusts the video timers.

[scoz]

I though reclock adjusts the video timers.
If you hit the "Slave to audio clock" checkbox they always tell people not to, yeah thats what it does. Since DirectShow times everything by the audio clock, Reclock basically uses the GPU's hardware timing instead of the audio hardware timing so DS chain is timed to the video card. It then re-samples or stretches the audio to keep it in sync with the video clock based on the differences in the timings.

Assuming your not bit-streaming, in which case you either get repeats/drops, or can set Reclock to use the audio clock instead and then the video renderer is responsible for matching the audio hardware timing as if you were not using Reclock (Usually done for Exclusive bitstreaming).

[6233638]

Thank you one more time for the suggestions. I'll see what madshi comes up with 0.35 and decide.

I actually want a gaming card. That's why my choice is 460 or 6850. This is not a dedicated HTPC, but an all-purpose machine. I'll stop here though since I'm very close to off-topic.

if you care about a balance of performance and power/heat/noise, then it’s the 6870 versus the EVGA GTX 460; and the EVGA card wins in an unfair fight. As an overclocked card in a launch card article we’re not going to give it a nod, but we’re not going to ignore it; it’s 5% faster than the reference 6870 while at the same time it’s cooler and quieter (thanks in large part to the fact that it’s an internal exhaust design). At least as long as it’s on the market (we have our doubts about how many suitable GPUs NVIDIA can produce), it’s hard to pass up even when faced with the 6870.Note: Gigabytes GTX460 OC is the coolest & quietest GTX460 - even better than the EVGA.

Looks like the new AMD cards are a bit of a mixed bag. In some games they can outperform the NV cards by up to 20% or so and in other games their slower. In some games their even slower than the last generation of AMD cards.

The power consumption is slightly better at full load but heat and noise is worse.

The NV cards just got price drops yesterday too which will take effect in a few days at most retailers.

[Snowknight26]

Looks like the new AMD cards are a bit of a mixed bag. In some games they can outperform the NV cards by up to 20% or so and in other games their slower. In some games their even slower than the last generation of AMD cards.

Because the cards just released are the mainstream line, not the enthusiast cards.

[Guns N' Roses]

Ok, there seems to be another issue:
When I pause a video and then seek to different scenes, upon seek the whole frame goes out of focus and then comes back into focus (kind of when you try to focus with your camera).
This also happens when there is an abrupt change of scenery in the video.
The frame just momentarily becomes hazy and then becomes normal. WTF?!

[JarrettH]

I sure do get a lot of video glitches/lock-ups (which occur within the first minute or two of playback) since installing the new WHQL NVIDIA 260.89 drivers. Never happened before

[lych_necross]

@JarrettH
What are your specs and what player are you using?

[VHT]

I get dropped frames every few minutes after updating to latest Nvidia drivers 260.89. Before that everything was just smooth. Using Nvidia GTX460+32bitVista+KmPlayer+Coreavc+Madvr...:mad:

[Razoola]

There are issues that happen with the latest 260.xx nvidia drivers. I have not tried the just released 260.99 whql as Im just about to download them but I have seen people already reporting the same issues with video playback.

[JarrettH]

That's good then. I wanted to report it to see if others had the same problem

MPC-HC rev 2667
ffdshow rev 3608
GT 240
madVR 0.34
Windows 7 32-bit

Edit: Wait what, I thought the ones I installed were the WHQL...on to 260.99...

[Shii]

All nvidia drivers since 197.45 works bad for me. Some settings not saving, custom resolution creation fails, games lagging. Stiil waiting for really stable 2** driver and staying with 197.45.

[leeperry]

257.21 works perfectly w/ 0.32 on XPSP3...after everything I read about 260.x w/ Reclock(can't detect the refresh rate)/mVR(lockup, hiccuping), there's no hurry for me to update :D

I guess they might improve CoreAVC CUDA's performance and not much more than that for me...Nvidia prolly work hard at optimizing their latest cards, who cares about my rebadged 8800GS anymore. Updating would most likely be close to pointless.

[nevcairiel]

The 260.89 works perfectly on my GTS450 .. but a new card with new drivers, maybe it really isnt that perfect for older cards, can't comment on that :p

[BatKnight]

Wait for v0.35 before deciding, though... :D
Can't wait to be able to change automatically from 60Hz to 24Hz when playing a movie, using madVR.
It's quite annoying to have to change the resolution to 24Hz before opening MPC-HC, for it to stick after changing to fullscreen.

Bat

[robpdotcom]

It's quite annoying to have to change the resolution to 24Hz before opening MPC-HC, for it to stick after changing to fullscreen.

I have found a work around for that:

If you set MPC-HC to change the resolution as well as the refresh rate, the change will stick. For example, I currently have my desktop set to 1280x720@60Hz, and have MPC-HC set to change to 1920x1080@23Hz.

It might not be ideal, but I've started to like the larger text when using 1280x720 on my desktop since I always use my HTPC from the sofa.

[cl0ud]

HI

I would really like XBMC DSPlayer to support MadVR so I'm looking into the possibility of adding it.

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=61355

I would like to know if MadVR can render to a 3D surface? and also what are the interfaces that MadVR exposes?

[madshi]

I would really like XBMC DSPlayer to support MadVR so I'm looking into the possibility of adding it.

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=61355

I would like to know if MadVR can render to a 3D surface? and also what are the interfaces that MadVR exposes?
Please contact me via email: madshi (at) gmail (dot) com.

[tschi]

HI
I would really like XBMC DSPlayer to support MadVR so I'm looking into the possibility of adding it.
That's the most exciting thing I read from a long time, I hope You can achieve it. It would be the best media player that ever made :cool:

[cl0ud]

Yeah I think it would really give a boost to XBMC DSPlayer if it has MadVR support. I'm not actually a developer working on DSPlayer or XBMC for that matter but I would like to see MadVR support in DSPlayer so I've offered to add it in.

Problem is I know very little about directshow filters/renderers so its a bit of a learning process for me, but if I can't do it, hopefully enough people will want it and convince the real developers to add in support.

[v0lt]

I have not seen the list of "known problems", so I'll write here.
If the path to madVR are non-Latin characters, the renderer does not work. :(

[Razoola]

madshi, I just wonder if you found or know the cause the the freezing many of us have had with 034 as you have not commented on it?

[dansrfe]

madhi,

this is a definite bug which I have found. When a dvd is played the first part of it including the fbi warning and such reports to madvr as 25 fps and when it comes to the movie part it is still at 25 fps when I know for a fact ffdshow is outputting progressive ntsc film at 23.976 fps. This in turn leads madvr to start it's correction process of trying to sync to 25fps leading to very shaky playback and other stuff unless and until I pause and then play it again for which it fixes it for about the next 1 min or so. Please look into this using a regular progressive ntsc disk if possible. thanks.

[ajp_anton]

Feature request:
Make the Exclusive Mode search bar more instantaneous, MPC-HC style.

[dansrfe]

Feature request:

Add manual colorimetery selections.
Fix FPS detection on some DVDs.

It would be particularly useful if madVR could somehow communicate directly with ffdshow for certain info such as resolution and fps by options.

[Thunderbolt8]

Feature request:
Make the Exclusive Mode search bar more instantaneous, MPC-HC style.
not sure what you mean by that, but I support a request which makes it a bit easier to click on / target. sometimes it seems you just need to click exactly at one spot in order to have the effect or sometimes you click a little above the bar and it still pauses and such things.
right now the bar is more like the bar of mpc direct3d fullscreen mode which is quite messy. that being said, I guess the bar in its current form is just a kind of beta anyway and sooner or later therell be a better one.

[leeperry]

It would be particularly useful if madVR could somehow communicate directly with ffdshow for certain info such as resolution and fps
..and colorspace(601/709), no need to resort to ColorMatrix() for upscaled SD anymore..but madshi knows all this ;)

[ajp_anton]

not sure what you mean by that
When you move the mouse to the bottom, there's like a half a second delay before the search bar shows up.