madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[QBhd]

Yeah that's odd... somehow CRU was reset or set back to default. You should be okay if you just delete those standard resolutions again, okay out of CRU, Reboot, and all should be back. No need to redo everything. I just tested this today for $hit$ and giggles.

QB

EDIT: there was a Windows update this week... I am willong to bet that might be your culprit.

[mclingo]

Thanks but I wiped it all and re did it, will try that if it recurs.

[SirMaster]

Play a 23 Hz file for at least 10 minutes and create with CRU a custom resolution using a calculated one in madvr

I am not sure what to do here when I try entering the numbers that madVR calculated it wont let me save it.

https://imgur.com/2rfIL6m

[Klaus1189]

Never had issues with it. Are you probably using the resolution you want to do custom timings with? It is the only thing I can think of for now.

[Cowboydude99]

Thanks for the info on upscaling.

My gpu is Gtx 1080.

I’m running my gpu at 60hz. If I drop it to 24, I get horribly visible stutter/judder.

I can’t use RGB full at 60hz

How do you get hdr with wcg? 4:2:2 limited?

My projector has an Extended option.

I’m shooting for best image in movies. HDR WCG BT2020

[mclingo]

I am not sure what to do here when I try entering the numbers that madVR calculated it wont let me save it.

https://imgur.com/2rfIL6m

should you not be creating your custom resolution in your GPU contol panel not in CRU utility?, I just looked at mine and there are no 4k resolution in there now which is correct, I just used that to delete out all the 4k resolutions.

[mclingo]

to be honest thought mate i'm close to giving up on this myself, best I can get is about 1.55 hours no matter what I do, I thought it was several hours but once it settled it was stuck on that:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBik6hBuPVDU9z4um3VEw?e=9rngJw

If I try optimize and select one of the others and click apply nothing changes even if I reboot, measured always says 1.55 hours. However i'm trying something different now. I'm trying this.

1. Delete custom res in MADVR
2. Open CRU utility and delete all 2160p resolutions in both TV resolutions and HDMI support in the extension blocks section
3. Reboot
4. create brand new custom res in MADVR using some of the timings you gathered from previous attemp, i'm going to use those in my screen shot that clock at 4.71 days.
5. Reboot
6. play movie for 30 mins.

Will report back shortly, if this works i'll probs write up some proper instructions, if it doesnt I'm probably going to dump this card at some point and re purchase my trusty MSI nitro x RX580.

[SirMaster]

Yeah I really do wish there were better instructions to follow.

I can't figure this out at all for some reason.

I just tried following all the instructions. I just created the custom res in nVidia control panel with the timings from madVR after optimize and it isn't making any change to my dropped frames. I am still at the same 4.40 minutes per dropped frame.

I don't want to give up on this but I can't see what I am missing.

[SirMaster]

Never had issues with it. Are you probably using the resolution you want to do custom timings with? It is the only thing I can think of for now.

I just tried switching resolutions to make sure I am not in the resolution I am trying to create and still the horizontal front porch value is red preventing me from clicking OK.

[mclingo]

I tried my method as stated, no joy so I tried putting those exact figures into AMD control panel, stated my display would was not compatible.

@Sirmaster - are you adding this to your TV resolutions or HDMI Support in the CRU utility?

[SirMaster]

I tried my method as stated, no joy so I tried putting those exact figures into AMD control panel, stated my display would was not compatible.

@Sirmaster - are you adding this to your TV resolutions or HDMI Support in the CRU utility?

I am clicking this Add button.

https://imgur.com/pAh5CT0

[mclingo]

i'm starting to think nobody really knows exactly whats going on with these issues, everyone knows a little bit, some a lot more than others but I think there must be a fundamental misunderstanding about how MADVR and windows works with custom modes as nothing seems to work as it should beyond those initial figures I was given here which gives me 1.55 hours, If change the totals even by one point it drops to something horrible like one frame drop every 6 seconds or 1.5 mins.

There must be a better way to do this apart from guess what these figures should be but I also think MADVR custom modes doesnt work properly either as whenever I create on in there is does nothing at all and i cant get optimize to work at all.


i'll have one last go how you are doing it to see if that gets me the timings I want.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Sorry that I can't offer any further assistance on this mate - I'm still baffled why you need custom timings with AMD (with the 5700xt) , as I and others have said, it's rock solid stable.

[mrmojo666]

Sorry that I can't offer any further assistance on this mate - I'm still baffled why you need custom timings with AMD (with the 5700xt) , as I and others have said, it's rock solid stable.

i would say the same here with old rx460. in the past i had some timing problems, but they was becasue i was using two hdmis: one 2.0 to the tv for the video e one 1.3 to the AVr for the audio..... the day i bought my marantz hdmi2.0 AVR and started to use single hdmi all timing issues have gone

[hannes69]

Ok, some general ideas concerning custom resolutions:
Normally, madVR´s solution should work. But: Some time has passed since madshi released a new madVR version (beside the HDR betas), so in the meantime there could have developed some problems either with GPU drivers or at OS level.
MadVR calculates custom resolutions based on given timings (either EDID ones or your personally entered ones in the driver´s custom resolution section or in CRU.
If the madVR routine doesn´t work, either the driver is rejecting the suggested resolution or the display doesn´t accept/work with the given resolution or there are unsolved problems with the different GPU communication interfaces between madVR and the GPU drivers.
So: if madVR´s routine doesn´t work, the next attempt is to use the driver routine fpr custom resolutions. I personally only know the one in AMD drivers, but they all should work in a similar way.
You have simply to enter the give numbers of madVR in the custom resolution section of your GPU driver.
There you should have feedback (error, warning) when your entered numbers aren´t accepted.
If this way doesn´t work, then as a last resort you can try CRU.
There you can delete all the given resolutions and implement new ones with the numbers of madVR.

The normal behaviour is like that: You connect a display device to your computer and the device tells by EDID to the computer, which resolutions are supported and the according timings.
The driver GPU driver now knows them and implements the according resolutions and framerates at OS level.
Now you´re using this resolution and madVR measures it. Then madVR uses a interface to the GPU driver by which new custom resolutions are implemented. That´s the same way like entering numbers in the custom resolution section in your GPU driver, it´s only a sort of automation so you don´t have to do that manually. These interfaces can be broken or madVR´s code could have to be updated.
You can create new custom resolutions this way or you can use an already given resolution by EDID (combination of resolution + refresh rate). If using an already given set, this one gets an override by your custom one. So when everything is working as expected, there is no need to remove the EDID ones.
If these two ways don´t work, then I would say there is a problem on the OS side or a driver failure. Either a defective setup or errors in the driver or OS implementation.

CRU as last way overrides the given EDID of your display devices so it simulates that your display device is asking for the custom resolutions you want and not the given EDID standard ones.
If this doesn´t work out as well, then you maybe you are a victim of faulty drivers or some OS quirk. You can try to make a fresh install of OS or remove updates or try older drivers or... Maybe you should then accept the different approach of smoothmotion with a samll loss in image quality (most of the people won´t even notice).

I would say: Sometimes OS or GPU drivers are faulty, often teh display devices are picky with custom resolutions, very often the end user is incapable for the given task.
But homecinema is a matter of tinkering, learning, big efforts, investing bigger parts of your freetime, so it should be possible in the end.

I won´t deliver step by step instructions or even a youtube video. All the info is there in the net, madshi wrote a small guide, link given above, everything was explained many times. In the internet you find the necessary info.
There is no need to copy 1000 times always the same info and block server space with nothing new.
Many here expect personal assistance and are incapable or not willing to answer the most simple questions.
In very rare cases someone runs into a very special setup and a special problem. Most of the time we have standard cases with standard solutions. You have to take your time and have to work in structured manner. And rule out one error or possibility after another until the solution rests.
Most of the time there are reports and whinings like "I tried everything. I´ve done the same procedure now 10 times, always the same result. I´ll soon give up, please help me." Then some people chime in and are willing to help. There´s assistance and there are often specific questions. All of that is very often completely ignored. What do some people expect from a forum? Personal training and that other people offer solutions for personal problems and during the way no cooperation? No. You can´t expect help in a forum while not taking part in the process in a useful manner and in a manner demanded by the ones that help.

E.g. I gave the hint that you can prove if a custom resolution of madVR is applicated and where you can lookup the info. In the meantime there are more reports in the manner "Always the same drop time, regardless of what I´m doing". You have to narrow down the problem. We all now know that you always have the same drop time, nothing new, even when 1000 more times reported. Is the madVR custom resolution accepted in the GPU driver - YES/NO. Then you can move on to the next step.
I am willing to help out, definetely, but not in this unstructured manner and when I´m really mad I would say in this ignorant manner.
Sorry for being harsh, it´s not intended to be rude, but sometimes, you know, it´s time to say some 'truth'.

I just tried switching resolutions to make sure I am not in the resolution I am trying to create and still the horizontal front porch value is red preventing me from clicking OK.
Seems like CRU thinks that a limit is exceeded so it is colored red.
You can try to balance the porches. Leave the sync width alone, substract an amount from front porch (e.g -200) and add the same amount (+200 here) to back porch. The total number must stay the same.

[QBhd]

With the Optimize in madVR you select one of the "no frame drops/repeats" timings... hit apply... and reboot. Now sometimes it maybe rejected, so just move to another until you find one that is accepted. Most of the time this is linked to the pixel clock, if one has too high of a pixel clock it will more than likely be rejected (much higher than 300 MHz is usually the ceiling I found, sometimes I could go a little over, but not by much). And if none of the "optimized pixel clocks" work, use the best "same pixel clock" and try again.

Also know this... As you get closer and closer to the goal, you need longer and longer playback times to see the difference. Also be very sure that you have not paused or skipped playback. I find the best is to sit and watch a movie from beginning to end without touching the remote.

QB

[mclingo]

ok, so i followed the advice to the letter and got everything dialled in. I wasnt getting 3 hours as I first thought but more like 1.55 hours. Do i tried to tweak some of the totals in AMD control panel custom res but this just resulted in either black screen or much worse timings so I gave up on that.

the the next bit of advice was to create a custom res using the timings MADVR had already worked out, so I did, matched it exactly and guess what I got instead of 4.71 days.

30 mins.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBik6hCmOie-2txaBfikQ?e=dbPjCB

Could be MADVR being very old just isnt optimised for the RX5700 series cards and those who arent having issues are just lucky, or i'm just unlucky.


Whats worse is I cant now get back to 1.55 hours at all, where's my hammer...

[mclingo]

And just to really do my head in I decided to wipe all customs and then reset using CRU so my card was back to default driver and res settings,.. I'm now showing hors /days without drops like I normally do. Either this is another fluke or my card from the beginning had a corrupt set of resolutions setup.

Now down to 12 hours after 19 mins of playback. I'll give it 39 mins, reboot and see if this was a fluke.

[nussman]

For AMD users default settings without CRU or custom timings should be fine.
I am pretty sure you dont even recognize some random frame drops while watching a movie. Reset madVR stats after starting your film, relax and recheck after the movie how many frames are actually dropped.

[mclingo]

we wouldnt be bothering to discuss this if we didnt care about frame drops mate, anything above zero per movie is unacceptable to me, yes they do actually drop.

I'm now getting 11 hours with default settings and i havent a clue why :)

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBik6hECHVa1BfmWYvZgQ?e=dog7ss

[el Filou]

I am pretty sure you dont even recognize some random frame drops while watching a movie. Reset madVR stats after starting your film, relax and recheck after the movie how many frames are actually dropped.It really depends on the sort of movie/scene. If a drop happens during a static scene where a character is just talking you might miss it by chance, but if it's when the camera or a character is moving it's really noticeable.

[SirMaster]

Seems like CRU thinks that a limit is exceeded so it is colored red.
You can try to balance the porches. Leave the sync width alone, substract an amount from front porch (e.g -200) and add the same amount (+200 here) to back porch. The total number must stay the same.

Thanks.

I was able to subtract 300 from the front and add to the back and it let me create it. I rebooted and switched to it, but I am still seeing the same 4.40 minutes per frame drop. This is the drop time I have always seen no matter if I do the custom mode through madVR, or nVidia control panel, or now CRU.


Is the madVR custom resolution accepted in the GPU driver - YES/NO.

I feel like I am not sure how to know the answer to this question. When I press the Test Mode button on madVR custom res it says that the mode was accepted, so I think the answer is yes.

But then I reboot to make sure it's applied, and I switch to the mode and then check the playback stats in the overlay and the dropped frames still goes right to 4.40 minutes same as before the optimization.

It says my current timings have no frame drops / repeats expected and all the timing numbers match the optimized pixel clock #1 but yet it seems to make no change to my actual dropped frames.

I made sure to leave a movie playing for over 30 minutes without interruption, and I reset everything (deleted all the resolutions) and tried again with the same results after a 30+ min measurement period.

https://imgur.com/tRfPXCT

[QBhd]

Again this sounds like "standard timings" overriding any custom timings. The EDID is sometimes a real pain in the butt. First thing I would do, delete all custom resolutions in the driver, run the reset-all.exe in the CRU folder, and reboot... then in madVR delete any display "identification" that is greyed out (these get created when you make changes to the EDID with CRU)… this should revert everything back to default/out of the box settings.

QB

[Cowboydude99]

Hi everyone,
I've been trying to get my set up to work properly, but not having much luck.

Hoping you can help me a bit further, but maybe in a different way.

My goal is to get smooth video with HDR BT2020.

24hz refresh rate plays 24p terribly. I have to increase it to 60hz and use MadVR's smooth motion.

Can I use RGB 8bit Full in Windows, and have something done in MadVR to output 10bit properly?

When I try to output 4K/60 at 4:2:2 10 bit, I get some very weird green lines running on the screen. This doesn't happen every time, but often enough that if I stop a movie, it happens, or if I play a movie where the system changes to HDR. It's not always HDR, but it looks like when the system tries to set color using 4:2:0, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4...

So I'm hoping that I can set RGB 8bit, and have MadVR output 10bit. This goes against what I'm thinking, but someone pointed out maybe that is an option.

This would give me smooth video at 60hz (24p).

PS- I tried the studio drivers and the same things happen (green and magenta screens).

[mrmojo666]

we wouldnt be bothering to discuss this if we didnt care about frame drops mate, anything above zero per movie is unacceptable to me, yes they do actually drop.

I'm now getting 11 hours with default settings and i havent a clue why :)

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBik6hECHVa1BfmWYvZgQ?e=dog7ss

i do not have a 5700, but on my system as repoted before, no famedrops at all , never feel to have to use cru or other thing like that.

[QBhd]

If you have read just a little bit of this, you would know that not even setups with very similar hardware behave the same. So talk like above is actually less than helpful.

QB

[nussman]

anything above zero per movie is unacceptable to me, yes they do actually drop.

Then use reclock or a player/audiorender with similar technic.
Without "on the fly sync" you can get close but it wont get perfect anyway (imho no videoplayer with bitstream audio output can do that).

On all AMD systems (default driver settings) I have seen the frame drop/repeat stats in madVR always vary a little bit at the beginning and then growing to hours or even days.

If you get 1-2 framedrop every 1,5h movie you have a good chance to miss it. I know it depends on scene/movie etc. but I would like to see a blind test for this. ;)

And if you get 30-50 framedrops every movie there might be different problem with your system, videofile, videoplayer or directshow filter?

On the other site, setting up custom timings is not an easy task and there is a good chance to make things even worse (i.e. like you did before reset to driver defaults).

Back in the old days these problems were much bigger.
No madVR, no hdmi, but WinXP with VMR7/9 videorenderer and spdif output with frame drops/repeats every minute (and thats really annoying because you are waiting then for the next jitter).

Afaik on Intel/Nvidia the default timings are a little bit worse. So custom timings are might worth it.

[SirMaster]

Afaik on Intel/Nvidia the default timings are a little bit worse. So custom timings are might worth it.

I think that's an understatement. Stock nVida timings are a frame drop every 4-5 min and very noticeable.

I am not giving up bistream for this as I would lose Atmos and DTS:X on the 7.1.4 system. Like 80%+ of UHD movies are Atmos/DTS:X these days and pretty much every new release.

[lazostat]

Guys i have a question about duplicate screen and Madvr. Why force switch display mode doesn't work when i use duplicate screen? (Pc and TV). It works only if i make my Tv main monitor. Otherwise it goes on 60Hz, like my Pc monitor is. So everytime before i watch a movie, i have to change display shown only on TV. Then when i open the movie with WMPC and go full screen, it auto-changes the Hz according to the movie's.

Also, sometimes when i have duplicate screen, i have lags, and i don't know why. My system is good with 3600+2070 super combo.Can someone help me pls?

[nussman]

Maybe because your PC Monitor does not support 24p?

[Asmodian]

When using the duplicate option you can only use modes both displays support.

[hannes69]

I feel like I am not sure how to know the answer to this question. When I press the Test Mode button on madVR custom res it says that the mode was accepted, so I think the answer is yes.
Ok.
I´m on AMD and I don´t know the according section in nvidia control panel - if it exists.
In AMD Radeon settings there is a section where you can lookup the current timings being used - all porches, refresh rate, pixel clock, polarity and so on like in CRU or in madVR.
I mentioned this approach to rule out some possible problems on madVR´s side.
The second possibility to check this is madVR itself of course.
MadVR has the line "current timings". So you let madVR optimize your refresh rate, apply it, note it (screenshot or pen+paper), reboot, enter madVR and check now the "current timings".
In my case the behaviour is like expected: I use a certain custom resolution. I look up the current timings in madVR and in the AMD Radeon section - they are the same. Then I edit this custom resolution within AMD Radeon settings. The corresponding values in Radeon settings showing the current applied timings are updated without reboot and show the values from the custom resolution (which is applied instantly without reboot as well). When now opening madVR the line "current timings" now corresponds to the custom resolution´s change, so everything is lined up correctly.
MadVR interacts with the driver in both directions: One possibility is to send custom resolution timing parameters to the driver which implements it (or rejects it if the mode is not accepted by the driver or the display). The other way round, madVR requests from the driver the currently used timings and shows them.
This communication is realized by specific interfaces with AMD nvidia and intel. They may be broken in the context of driver updates. As a consequence madVR may sometimes not be able to apply custom resolutions or request the current timings.

You can test this interface by e.g. implementing a new refresh rate through madVR. E.g. create a custom resolution through madVR for a refresh rate you haven´t implemented yet and which doesn´t exist on the OS side.
Implement it. When it shows up (maybe after reboot) in the OS, the interface is intact, if it doesn´t show up you know it´s broken. You can choose e.g. 26 Hz (a normally not used one) and by this way you can rule out the possibility that it is maybe overwritten by the driver or OS (EDID quirks).

The crucial point is to find out, which timings are actually used.
The driver has control over that and at least AMD shows them. Would be a pity if nvidia or intel don´t offer this info.
On the other side I would say, normally I would trust madshi. When he delivers numbers for "current timings" then it is to assume that these values are actually requested from the drivers, and if this fails, that there is not shown anything else but a message like "couldn´t request current timings". I don´t know that because in my setup this was never the case.

I hope you understand what I´m trying to say.
When the drop/repeat time doesn´t change (and the time is real, so you really get drops/repeats in the given time) and you haven´t changed your audio output or there is a massive change in hardware temperatures (which influences the clocks slightly) you have to assume that the actual used resolution is always the same. But this should show up in madVR and/or in the GPU driver settings.

This is the next step.
If it is the case that all the time the same timings are used then the next step would be to find up why this is the case.
But first find out IF this is the case.

[mclingo]

Hi, there is how i got mine fixed last night, still working today, no idea if it will hold or not but right now i have good times for both 2160p 2d and 1080p 3d.

https://1drv.ms/w/s!AgvFafeelEBik6hMzYAoEAPeWrMD8Q?e=21zFGM


EDIT - sadly 3D was a fluke, best I can get with any settings is 30 mins, acting just like NVIDIA cards now, very odd behviour for AMD, 2d holding solid however at no drops for 11 hours +

[Cowboydude99]

Is there any SDR to HDR conversion?

I’ve been testing how I like some image enhancements, and wondered about sdr to hdr.

[SamuriHL]

No, SDR to HDR is not something that can be done.

[Cowboydude99]

No, SDR to HDR is not something that can be done.

Thanks!

How have you all calibrated your projectors? I use my HTPC w/ MadVR for all of my movies.

Is there a specific software that would be recommended for MadVR using projection?

Any specific hardware/meters?

[Asmodian]

i1 Display Pro is a good meter, DisplayCal is good free software. I like Calman too, but it is expensive and DisplayCal is quite good.

[hannes69]

Colormunki Display (the same like i1 Display Pro, but cheaper + a little bit slower measurements) combined with DisplayCal.

[Cowboydude99]

Great! Thank you! I will look into both meters.

Do you have to make adjustments regularly, or is it a 1 time config? I'm using a PJ, so the bulbs lose their brightness over time.

[tp4tissue]

Great! Thank you! I will look into both meters.

Do you have to make adjustments regularly, or is it a 1 time config? I'm using a PJ, so the bulbs lose their brightness over time.

Every 200-300 hours of use, it's necessary to remeasure. That's how fast it begins to drift.

VERY FAST.

[huhn]

just run a verification every 1-3 months if it fails do a new calibration.

[Cowboydude99]

Cool! Anything else to consider?

Also- anywhere to donate for MADVR? Seems like for such great software, I should be paying something...

[huhn]

you could inform yourself about your projectors behaviour.
how fast does it drift in the first 1000 hours of the lamp is it relative stable after that these kind of things.

they may or may not be a paid version of madVR "soon" something like never to 1-36 months.

[Cowboydude99]

you could inform yourself about your projectors behaviour.
how fast does it drift in the first 1000 hours of the lamp is it relative stable after that these kind of things.

they may or may not be a paid version of madVR "soon" something like
never to 1-36 months.I'll see what happens over time I guess.

OK, I'll keep a look out.

[Cowboydude99]

95% if what I watch us HDR Blu-ray disks.

Would I still use one of these devices?

Edit: I found this on the X-rite site;
According to X-Rite, only the Rev.B OEM version of the meter (not the Retail) manufactured from January 2017 or later is certified to measure up to 2000 nits.

So I guess it is not suitable for hdr.

[Asmodian]

2000 nits is way above what any projector can do. Even most consumer displays cannot do 2000 nits. I do not know of a better meter you could buy, at least for <$1000 USD.

Also, you can calibrate at 75% IRE, or lower if you need to. This does make sense for HDR, since most of the screen is not very close to peak most of the time.

[Cowboydude99]

In order to get the nits output, I’d need a light meter too?

I don’t know the nits, but supposed to be 2000 likens, not sure what the actual light hitting the screen would measure though.

Do I need to know this for a good calibration?

[Asmodian]

Measuring it is part of the calibration, a colorimeter can measure it.

[huhn]

you are nearly sure not even close to 200 nits even below 100 nits is pretty normal for a good projector projecting on a big screen.

[failax]

It is possible to create a table of peak luminance of every frame before, instead of processing in real time, so less powerful video card could read it?