madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[leeperry]

humm, you really expect any display to accept 600Hz?

double framerate would already be fantastic, through the GPU I mean...YADIF does it in ffdshow, but it's very CPU consuming.

[leeperry]

what I personnaly would like to see is the ability to specify different SD/HD LUT's depending on the display...so no need to swap them on the fly when you switch displays.

HR will let you set different convergence settings depending on the display, and they have different names in the Windows Device Manager(HR identifies them through this).

[tetsuo55]

humm, you really expect any display to accept 600Hz?

double framerate would already be fantastic, through the GPU I mean...YADIF does it in ffdshow, but it's very CPU consuming.

Ofcourse not, the magic of 600 means you can downsample to any native display refresh rate without judder or pulldown

[leeperry]

Ofcourse not, the magic of 600 means you can downsample to any native display refresh rate without judder or pulldown
so you want to create interleaved frames at 600fps, then dither down to 60? ah well, I like exact double framerate sometimes, but 23.976@60 is an artifacts feast.

if you like uber-smooth algos, maybe the Sony MotionFlow is your best option...as it seems to offer far better results than the competition(let alone PC software).

on the VW200, the picture goes 24fps@120Hz then is displayed at 240Hz(the LCD panels run at 2X refresh rate)....your movies will look pretty darn smooth :)

they also offer it in flat screens I think.

[tetsuo55]

so you want to create interleaved frames at 600fps, then dither down to 60? ah well, I like exact double framerate sometimes, but 23.976@60 is an artifacts feast.

if you like uber-smooth algos, maybe the Sony MotionFlow is your best option...as it seems to offer far better results than the competition(let alone PC software).

on the VW200, the picture goes 24fps@120Hz then is displayed at 240Hz(the LCD panels run at 2X refresh rate)....your movies will look pretty darn smooth :)

they also offer it in flat screens I think.
Yeah thats exactly the point, and indeed, sony proves it can be done. I would like to be able to have full control over it by having the pc do it instead of the display

[leeperry]

well 24X5=120X2=240, they always use multiples. 23.976@60 is prone to fail, even if you go 600 in between(and prolly worse actually due to artefacts)

but double frame rate via GPU would be awesome!

[tetsuo55]

well 24X5=120X2=240, they always use multiples. 23.976@60 is prone to fail, even if you go 600 in between(and prolly worse actually due to artefacts)

but double frame rate via GPU would be awesome!

Well i use content in the following formats:
24 fps
25 fps
30 fps
60 fps

The only way to get these equal is 600 hz

[leeperry]

you can't have a "one size fits all" in video, as you know...if you play 23.976/24/25/29.97/59.94, you'll have to play around w/ the refresh rate(+Reclock :D)

even MotionFlow won't let you do that.

and interleaving to 600fps, then dither down to 60 sounds dubious tbh...anyway, I'm quite sure madshi won't like the sound of that.

you can still interleave everything to 60fps, and hope for the best(or should I say: the worst).

[tetsuo55]

you can't have a "one size fits all" in video, as you know...if you play 23.976/24/25/29.97/59.94, you'll have to play around w/ the refresh rate(+Reclock :D)

even MotionFlow won't let you do that.

and interleaving to 600fps, then dither down to 60 sounds dubious tbh...anyway, I'm quite sure madshi won't like the sound of that.

you can still interleave everything to 60fps, and hope for the best(or should I say: the worst).
Yeah its a lossy process, interleaving to 60fps will just make things wose.

the interpolation method i'm suggesting will create new frames (not copy existing ones) by calculating the difference between the next and the last frame and interpolating a new frame based on that information (exactly how motionflow stuff works)

[leeperry]

there's many ways to create new frames in ffdshow to whatever double framerate or simply 23.976@60...it looks ugly on fast movements.

I like double frame rate on slow videos :)

indeed, some sort of GPU accelerated trimension would be great, but madshi has a pretty busy agenda...and mVR already puts slow GPU's on their knees apparently.

[Jong]

This sounds highly undesriable to me. All this will guarantee is that none of the real frames captured lovingly bythe filmaker make it onto your screen. I'm not even convinced by interpolating to 120Hz.

I just want something as close to cinema experience, i.e. straight forward double or triple shuttering of 24p stuff, that is until/if the film directors themselves decide it improves their art to move to a higher frame rate. So changing frame rates between 24p and 60Hz material will be a must for me for the forseeable future.

[leeperry]

well for non-movies, double framerate is awesome...like swimsuits competitions/documentaries/etc :p

[Jong]

Yeah, I don't have a problem for non-24p stuff. But that probably makes up about 5% of my HTPC viewing. But maybe that's just me?

[cheetah111]

@madshi, yesgrey3

Here is a strange situation:
PC1:
WIN XP SP3
NET Framework 3.5 SP1
DIRECTX Redistributable March 2009
C2DUO 8400
ATI 4850 512MB
Catalyst 8.7
MPC-HC svn 1120
Haali Media Splitter, Ffdshow included in K-Lite 4.8.0 (only codecs installed – no MPC-HC)

PC2:
WIN XP SP3
NET Framework 3.5 SP1
DIRECTX Redistributable March 2009
C2DUO 6600
ATI 3850 512MB
Catalyst 8.7
MPC-HC svn 1120
Haali Media Splitter, Ffdshow included in K-Lite 4.8.0 (only codecs installed – no MPC-HC)

1. When I select the use 3dlut option in madVR 0.10 I get the error “opening 3dlut file failed” on the 1st pc but on the second everything works fine. From 2 days of searching the only difference seems the graphic card model. I will search more because it drives me crazy. Luckily my pc2 is my htpc connected to a PANASONIC 42 inch PZ80EA (European model 60 Hz) tv.

2. Also the picture on my pc2 obtained from the filter combination: Haali Media Splitter, Ffdshow, madVR, although very nice, seems a little dark compared to what I see from the filter combination: Haali Media Splitter, CyberLink H.264/AVC decoder (PDVD8), vmr9 renderless. If someone could make CyberLink H.264/AVC decoder (PDVD8) output YV12 then I would be very very happy. Anyway, the MadVR quality is very good and the movies run smooth on both pcs.

3. Which decoders can be used with madVR? I know ffdshow and WMVideo Decoder DMO can be used.

4. Another remark: madVR version 0.1, 0.2, … , 0.9, 1.0 So is 0.10 a step back to the start as 0.10=0.1 ? :)

[Egh]

Ofcourse not, the magic of 600 means you can downsample to any native display refresh rate without judder or pulldown

How come?

E.g. if I use 85Hz? :)) it has 17 as a factor and 600 doesn't :)

[tetsuo55]

How come?

E.g. if I use 85Hz? :)) it has 17 as a factor and 600 doesn't :)

85 is not a default standard refresh rate, i should have been more clear:

24, 30, 50, 60. (and all their duplicates)

My CRT monitor is using 85hz too, but i don't watch any media on it.

[Egh]

85 is not a default standard refresh rate, i should have been more clear:

24, 30, 50, 60. (and all their duplicates)

My CRT monitor is using 85hz too, but i don't watch any media on it.

Well so did you derive 600Hz value as a LCM for framerates or refresh rates? :)

If the latter, then 85 is not included. As for the 85Hz refresh rate, on my CRT I used that with HR and found it best setting for mVR as well. 75Hz is sub-standard (and generally not recommended at a work place by standards for CRT) and 100Hz sometimes may be counter-productive in terms of video smoothness (imo owning to a fact that it may take 5 vsync intervals for a single frame). I have dual-monitor setup and 85Hz on CRT seems smoother than 60Hz on LCD.

[tetsuo55]

Well so did you derive 600Hz value as a LCM for framerates or refresh rates? :)

If the latter, then 85 is not included. As for the 85Hz refresh rate, on my CRT I used that with HR and found it best setting for mVR as well. 75Hz is sub-standard (and generally not recommended at a work place by standards for CRT) and 100Hz sometimes may be counter-productive in terms of video smoothness (imo owning to a fact that it may take 5 vsync intervals for a single frame). I have dual-monitor setup and 85Hz on CRT seems smoother than 60Hz on LCD.it's all purely based on existing video standards.

24/25/30/50/60 all fit in 600
600 would be the processing framerate, interpolating frames where needed. Then showing the needed frames in the single standard video refreshrate the display uses.

In my case it would be ANY>600>60
But as jong pointed out, in most cases i would be watching purely interpolated frames, and almost no real original frames

[honai]

... which means that, for instance, in case of soccer games you might not see the ball at all. Which is exactly what happens on most >100Hz LCD displays today.

[tetsuo55]

... which means that, for instance, in case of soccer games you might not see the ball at all. Which is exactly what happens on most >100Hz LCD displays today.thats just funny

[mark0077]

I have disabled the 120hz feature on my Samsung Series 9 TV. I just couldn't stand the noise and inability to properly interpolate frames. It seemed to be better at certain types of content than others which actually made the movie look more jittery than the original..... in the case of the Samsung I have to say its a bit of a gimmick. I wonder is taking things upto 600hz an extension of that gimmick. I saw a few photos taken of some of these 100 and 120hz tv's and the interpolated frames of a simple rotating triangle ended up being a blobby mushy circle type thing.

I will most certainly be leaving it off on this TV anyways, can't ever see them being very good without very powerful processors..., but would love to see some really good software interpolaters... the Trimension one looked pretty amazing when it was integrated with some old WinDVD versions.

[honai]

Trimension in WinDVD effectively halved the vertical resolution. ;-)

By the way, what marketing doesn't tell you for these new 120/600Hz displays is that they actually do the same, i.e. they reduce screen resolution from 1920x1080 to something along 800 lines so that the DSPs can actually handle the sheer amount of data. On my Panasonic (w/ "Intelligent Frame Creation") the loss of resolution is clearly visible, that's why I turn it off except for SD TV feeds.

[mark0077]

Trimension in WinDVD effectively halved the vertical resolution. ;-)

By the way, what marketing doesn't tell you for these new 120/600Hz displays is that they actually do the same, i.e. they reduce screen resolution from 1920x1080 to something along 800 lines so that the DSPs can actually handle the sheer amount of data. On my Panasonic (w/ "Intelligent Frame Creation") the loss of resolution is clearly visible, that's why I turn it off except for SD TV feeds.

Oh didn't know that ;) Well yeah for my Samsung I have put it into PC Mode @ 60hz. I cannot stand any of the "enhancements" that these TV's do (even with the 120 hz feature disabled and at 24hz) that end up ruining the image. Just hoping when OLED's become mainstream, we will see some models that justdisplay what they are being fed with no trickery, so we can use software like madVR and others to do all of the complicated stuff.

[Mark_A_W]

But at 60hz you're getting 3:2 judder for movies.

[tetsuo55]

refresh rate difference are a real pain.
I too have my tv in PC60 mode.

I use my HTPC for gaming, tv shows and movies.
This mixed content uses every refresh rate ever invented,

If i use 60 i get microjudder due to the pulldown, if i use 24, 25 or 30 i still get microjudder for the other content and the desktop/games are terrible.

So 60hz with pull down judder is the best solution for now

[Mark_A_W]

You can use Reclock to change refresh rate automagically. (And we'll see what madshi comes up with.)

[mark0077]

But at 60hz you're getting 3:2 judder for movies.

Oh I know, but believe me when I say, the 3:2 judder in pc mode is far less obtrusive or noticible than the trickery that these so called top of the range LCD's are doing.

I got so used to seeing untouched unalterered images for so long from PC LCD's that I could see the difference immediately. I can hardly notice 3:2 judder, doesn't bother me in the slightest when the picture quality is so good. I am in the same boat as tetsuo but for different reasons, 60hz is pretty good for me for all 24fps content. To me 24fps is such a low frame rate anyways that this tiny bit of added judder is nothing major but I would obv rather proper untouched 24hz, unfortunately not with Samsung anyways.

[73ChargerFan]

85 is not a default standard refresh rate, i should have been more clear:

24, 30, 50, 60. (and all their duplicates)

My CRT monitor is using 85hz too, but i don't watch any media on it.

I'd like support for 16-23 fps, so I can watch Metropolis & Charlie Chaplin films at a reasonable speed.

[Casshern]

The 0.10 version is much slower on my 2600 Ati card. The last i tested was 0.3 - inbetween their were some parameters to change the shader model. Are those still in 0.10? Are their any settings to effect speed? Is the LUT faster then using the inbuild conversion math?

[leeperry]

To me 24fps is such a low frame rate anyways that this tiny bit of added judder is nothing major
once your brain has gotten use to 24p, it will find it just as smooth as anything else! the visual cortex cares for smoothness, so if the frames interval is very stable, it will create the illusion of perfectly smooth motion picture. something you will NEVER get w/ 24@60

but maybe you were simply trying to reassure yourself to not toss that 60Hz-only flat screen of yours? :p

[tetsuo55]

once your brain has gotten use to 24p, it will find it just as smooth as anything else! the visual cortex cares for smoothness, so if the frames interval is very stable, it will create the illusion of perfectly smooth motion picture. something you will NEVER get w/ 24@60

but maybe you were simply trying to reassure yourself to not toss that 60Hz-only flat screen of yours? :pHis panel supports native 24p(as does mine), i agree with him for not using it within the current limitations of Pc video

[mark0077]

once your brain has gotten use to 24p, it will find it just as smooth as anything else! the visual cortex cares for smoothness, so if the frames interval is very stable, it will create the illusion of perfectly smooth motion picture. something you will NEVER get w/ 24@60

but maybe you were simply trying to reassure yourself to not toss that 60Hz-only flat screen of yours? :p

lol well it has all sorts of modes obviously from 24hz upto 60 and I see this "argument" in hundreds of forums (oh you must be blind not to see it, or youd never go back once youv tried 24hz). Yes I notice the judder at 60hz BUT you'd also have to be blind or have some sort of brain blur to think 24hz was anything near smooth in the first place.

To summarize what I mean when I say I don't care so much for the difference between 24hz vs 60hz, to give 24p at 24hz vs 24p at 60hz scores out of 10, with 10 being... well like looking through a pane of glass at the action :P ... (hopefully something that improves over time maybe with 48p or 60p), then I would give 24p at 24hz 5 out of ten and 24p at 60hz 4 out of ten... thats the best way I can explain things to you guys, 60hz isn't a a big deal to many when the motion in the first place is rubbish. The tiny judder at 60hz fits in just nicely with the awfully low frame rate we begin with.

I suggest some of you guys at least try the PC Mode on your displays. Some of you might be surprised at the difference in quality, no added effects or blurring or... well I can't even explain what some of my family members "top of the line" Tv's do the image to ruin it but I tell you, I definitely would settle for 60hz judder anytime i get a TV that adds too many of these effects. Its kind of a similar situation, once you have seen what images your TV can display with all of the trickery disabled in a pc-like mode, you will never go back;)

[yesgrey]

Is the LUT faster then using the inbuild conversion math?
Your card seems to be shader limited, so by using the 3DLUT you could save some shader power... try with both and see.;)

[leeperry]

60hz isn't a a big deal to many when the motion in the first place is rubbish. The tiny judder at 60hz fits in just nicely with the awfully low frame rate we begin with.

I suggest some of you guys at least try the PC Mode on your displays. Some of you might be surprised at the difference in quality, no added effects or blurring or... well I can't even explain what some of my family members "top of the line" Tv's do the image to ruin it but I tell you, I definitely would settle for 60hz judder anytime i get a TV that adds too many of these effects.
watching 23.976@60 makes me feel like I have a brain tumor...that makes my brain "drop" frames :scared:

I never use flat screens(I hate them tbh :o) and I'm perfectly willing to believe that they apply bogus processing....but a CRT or DLP in 48Hz looks perfectly smooth to me, in the idea that the frames interval is spot-on at 41.666~ ms so it's "smooth", the frames don't hiccup...after a while, your brain will accept it as a fact! motion blur is your buddy after all : http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

it's been more or less demonstrated that 72fps is the sweet spot where the brain can be completely fooled.

[mark0077]

watching 23.976@60 makes me feel like I have a brain tumor...that makes my brain "drop" frames :scared:

I never use flat screens(I hate them tbh :o) and I'm perfectly willing to believe that they apply bogus processing....but a CRT or DLP in 48Hz looks perfectly smooth to me, in the idea that the frames interval is spot-on at 41.666~ ms so it's "smooth", the frames don't hiccup...after a while, your brain will accept it as a fact! motion blur is your buddy after all : http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

it's been more or less demonstrated that 72fps is the sweet spot where the brain can be completely fooled.

Yeah can't wait for that day :D Probably going way off topic but I wonder how OLED's will fair when they get released... Would you consider replacing your CRT or DLP with a jumbo high quality OLED. I'm just waiting for an excuse to give this TV to my bro lol

[FoLLgoTT]

Real 24Hz with full stroboscope effect is smooth as hell! Only the frame repetitions causes the well known motion blur in our brain. This is because out brain itself interpolates the motion between frames and the repeated image is blended with the interpolated image. With 48Hz you can clearly see always two edges/objects in moving scenes. With 72Hz you see three and so on.
Only with 24Hz stroboscope the motion is absolutely smooth. It is stunning if you see this the first time. It just opens your eyes! Suddenly your eye can follow every motion without any annoying blur! Sadly 24Hz also flickers as hell which makes watching impossible for a longer period of time.

Manufacturers are aware of this problem and build flashing back light in some LCD TV's to produce black insertion frames like CRT's do. But since the biggest difference in motion blur comes with the first frame repeat (every additional repeat doesn't amplify the motion blur much) the problem can only be solved with temporal interpolation.

On one hand I like the smoothness of interpolations like DNM on the other hand the movies are not meant to look like this. I hope there will be cinema with more than 24FPS some day, but this seems to be a very long way...

PS: I recommend to try 24Hz to everyone. Some CRT monitors or projectors can do this. For example Sony CRT projectors.

[tetsuo55]

watching 23.976@60 makes me feel like I have a brain tumor...that makes my brain "drop" frames :scared:

I never use flat screens(I hate them tbh :o) and I'm perfectly willing to believe that they apply bogus processing....but a CRT or DLP in 48Hz looks perfectly smooth to me, in the idea that the frames interval is spot-on at 41.666~ ms so it's "smooth", the frames don't hiccup...after a while, your brain will accept it as a fact! motion blur is your buddy after all : http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

it's been more or less demonstrated that 72fps is the sweet spot where the brain can be completely fooled.Nice link, that filled some of the gaps in what i know about the eye.

It basically says that starting from +/- 500 FPS(of actual footage) the video will be recieved as reality(assuming enough pixels @ distance to viewer)
this 500 is the minimum from the perfect viewing angle, and probably a relatively large distance from a small screen

[leeperry]

not quite 500fps, some say 60 is enough, and 72 is definitely reality to the human brain...it would appear.

well, cinema projectors(since the Lumiere brothers invention) play 24fps@48Hz, the shutter speed is twice higher..as explained on page 12 of that (french) PDF : http://www.derriere-le-hublot.com/documents/cours_projection_zinema.pdf

I use Reclock exactly like this on my DLP projector! 24fps @ 48Hz, and I can easily follow any moving object very distinctively :)

some more food for thoughts, when we discussed this issue on another (private) forum :

Our own visual image appears to be continuously updated as long as our eyes are open. We can see what it might be like to have an intermittently updated world image, by using a stroboscope at night. This is sometimes done at discotheques, and it produces some dramatic effects. A dancing person appears as a succession of frozen statuesque attitudes. Obviously, the faster we set the strobe, the more the image corresponds to normal 'continuous' vision.
Stroboscopic vision 'sampling' at the bat's cruising rate of about 10 samples per second would be nearly as good as normal 'continuous' vision for some ordinary purposes, though not for catching a ball or an insect.
about the 'eye' seeing 60fps as max and studies memerious referred to. Recent studies have shown that when in a danger situation, so adrenaline is pumping the human brain effectively slows down time. So you can perceive more than you normally would. They done these experiements by having a display device show certain numbers every X seconds. At rest no one could make out what number was being displayed. When thrown out with a bungee cord the subjects could see the number.

The applicability of all this to us watching TV is interesting. I'd say: If you're watching a horror film, adrenaline levels are increased so maybe extra frame rate is useful. If you're watching a comedy, pointless. If you're playing a multiplayer video game and are really pumped up, maybe its useful. If you're watching your hockey team in G7 of the Stanley Cup finals and it's tripple OT, you will be massively pumped so it is useful.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0001295
60fps is the point where science has shown that the brain stops increasing in reaction to stimuli. You can watch 100fps, but your brain will essentially do a pulldown to 60fps on you. They proved this by measuring activity in the brain while people watched different movies. By varying genres, moods, etc they were able to account for regular activity that wasn't effected by the stimuli (think of it as your brains background noise). Then they accounted for the waves that were effected by the stimuli. After different gambits of tests they found that by increasing the framerate of the video that people had a distinct psychological reaction that allowed them to process the information. They noticed that after 60fps however, that the change was diminished and almost non-existant. Thus, it was discovered, through several other retests and peer reviews that it was determined that we see the world at 60fps. This is for 99.9% of the population, there will of course be the small anomalies that can see better, but they are VERY rare. Gamers will swear they can see at 100fps+, but until one of them shows any scientific evidence they are just deluding themselves to explain their $800 video card.

There is ONE Navy study (gamers always sight it) that suggested that combat fighter pilots could sometimes see objects in their field of vision for 1/100th of a second suggesting 100fps is possible. However, even the Navy acknowledges that these results are slightly "Skewed' since combat fighter pilots have to pass one of the most rigorous physicals and have PERFECT vision. No contacts, glasses, LASIK, etc. If you weren't born with perfect eyes you need not apply. The Navy's subjects were also selected because they performed better than anyone else at tracking targets (these are the .1% people). That in addition to the hundreds of hours of reaction drills and tracing targets in simulators, and practice dogfighting they have trained their brain to take in information faster. Even then, this is only a peak level and not sustainable. They also haven't done further testing to discount "luck" or statistical anomaly.

P.S. 24fps was picked for movies because it is the point just above where they human eye discerns individual pictures. Thus it was best because it required the least amount of film. It had nothing to do with quality, it was simply a money decision.

although 24fps was initially chosen for movies for monetary reasons, it is kept today because of its artistic effect that low framerate does have on the viewer.

http://www.daniele.ch/school/30vs60/30vs60_3.html

and a pretty interesting interview from a film maker : http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117983864.html?categoryid=1043&cs=1
Increasing the data-handling capacity of the projectors and servers is not a big deal, if there is demand. I've run tests on 48 frame per second stereo and it is stunning. The cameras can do it, the projectors can (with a small modification) do it. So why aren't we doing it, as an industry?

Because people have been asking the wrong question for years. They have been so focused on resolution, and counting pixels and lines, that they have forgotten about frame rate. Perceived resolution = pixels x replacement rate. A 2K image at 48 frames per second looks as sharp as a 4K image at 24 frames per second ... with one fundamental difference: the 4K/24 image will judder miserably during a panning shot, and the 2K/48 won't. Higher pixel counts only preserve motion artifacts like strobing with greater fidelity. They don't solve them at all.

maybe someone should create a separate thread, so madshi doesn't accuse us of threadcrapp*ng :D

[madshi]

maybe someone should create a separate thread, so madshi doesn't accuse us of threadcrapp*ng :D
Yes, please. madVR will most probably never do any kind of intermediate frame interpolation. So this discussion doesn't really belong here.

[TinTime]

Some of these framerate themes were covered in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1281299#post1281299) recently.

[sucht]

i just swiched from XP(SP3) 64bit to Vista 64bit and Windows 7 64bit, i never had a real big problem with this renderer, but now on Vista 64 and Windows 7 64 i get this Macrovision Fail thing everytime i try to play one of my many DVDs(NTSC and PAL) :(
is there a workaround for this or do i have to switch to another renderer?


thanks and ciao
thomas

[KoD]

It could be that on the 64 bit versions of Vista and Win7, the protected media path allows only signed components to be loaded during playback (so that nobody could dump the video stream). That would make it impossible to use unsigned components (like ffdshow or madVR).

[tetsuo55]

It could be that on the 64 bit versions of Vista and Win7, the protected media path allows only signed components to be loaded during playback (so that nobody could dump the video stream). That would make it impossible to use unsigned components (like ffdshow or madVR).Luckily that's not the case, as every renderer except MadVR (and even with MadVR some discs do work)

[kostik]

Why Madvr 0.10 doesnt have the two 3dlut files ?
and how do I use them? just copy them from the 0.9 release and put them in the folder where madvr is?
10X

[t3nk3n]

Is there plans for a x64 version?

[ikarad]

I don't know if you mean strictly .ICM profile or LUT files.

HR doesn't care for .ICM files because it's not color managed..but it does care for LUT files in ARGYLLCMS(actually all the renderers do, except Overlay)

anyway, ARGYLLCMS is far more accurate than any other color calibration package, especially in "HQ" mode :)

I speak about icm profile created by lacieblueeye pro (hardware color calibration). I don't know what lut means but All I know is that madvr doesn't support color profile like overlay renderer and it's a big problem because powerdvd (except for blu-ray), windows media player, vlc, mpc-hc with vmr7,vmr9,evrcustom support color profile.

I hope that madshi will correct this problem ifnot madvr will be useless now and maybe even in ten years because It doesn't exist one monitor well calibrated in the world without hardware calibrator (ie deltaE<1 for all colors). Maybe i nten years it will be different but not today.

oh ok, well AFAIK PowerDVD is not color managed...so I don't see how its VMR9 Renderless presenter could take simple .ICM files in account :confused:

anyway, case closed...if mVR does take the graphic card's CLUT in account, there's nothing to see here :)

@ikarad: I also have the Lacie BlueEyePro(rebadged i1d2), their software is awful...try ARGYLLCMS, I've discussed its usage thoroughly on HCFR w/ MLill ;)

something like "dispcal -v -yc -t6500 -g2.3 -qh test"

;)

PowerDVD works with color profile except with blu-ray mode (here color profile is desactivated under vista or xp).

Lacie blu eye pro software is very good. It works very fine.

[yesgrey]

I don't know what lut means
The idea of the 3DLUT is to achieve the same thing as the icm profile, accurate colors per standard in any display.

[leeperry]

how big is your .ICM file? probably it contains a LUT already...I never really bothered w/ the Lacie software, coz ARGYLLCMS does a finer job anyway..and ARGYLLCMS is fully compatible w/ any video renderer except Overlay.

[ikarad]

how big is your .ICM file? probably it contains a LUT already...I never really bothered w/ the Lacie software, coz ARGYLLCMS does a finer job anyway..and ARGYLLCMS is fully compatible w/ any video renderer except Overlay.

my .icc (created with lacieblueyepro) file (3ko)
http://www.zshare.net/info.html?60687437-8a14b9c25d59c48735a5bec553875850

[Thunderbolt8]

how do delayed frames alter the viewing experience? with dropped frames, there is stuttering, but how do only delayed frames change the look of the movie?