madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[oddball]

I will admit that I don't know much about the 4k space and HDR yet, but, I do know that MS just pushed an update recently to Windows that defaults HDR to off. You probably know this but just in case, make sure it's enabled in Windows. If you have, my apologies for butting in where I don't know what I'm talking about. LOL :)

It was always off for me. Anyhow I do not want HDR always on as it will completely screw up non-HDR video colorspace. I only want it on for HDR video playback.

The other issue is if I set my display to 10 bit then 8 bit colorspace gets screwed up in MadVR. Really I need MadVR to do all the switching for 8/10 bit and HDR sources.

[Jasch]

@Madshi

Still does not auto switch to HDR on AMD. I have to switch manually in Win10 display settings.
Still does not work in fullscreen exclusive mode (washed out colors).

EDIT: Just need to add that if I have 10 bit on in MadVR and 10 bit set in AMD display settings colorspace is wrong when playing 8 bit videos (everything is oversaturated). I have to manually set either the AMD display settings to 8 bit. Or MadVR to 8 bit in the display properties or use BT202 in MadVR calibration settings (close but not perfect doing it that way though) when both AMD and MadVR are set to 10 bit.

I need for MadVR to do all this switching automatically.

I can confirm this,
I use 8bit amd madvr 10bit and dci-3 cal. profile.

[SamuriHL]

It should be off, if i quote Madshi right.
If its on all non HDR Material has wrong Color.

It was always off for me. Anyhow I do not want HDR always on as it will completely screw up non-HDR video colorspace. I only want it on for HDR video playback.

The other issue is if I set my display to 10 bit then 8 bit colorspace gets screwed up in MadVR. Really I need MadVR to do all the switching for 8/10 bit and HDR sources.

That makes complete sense. Just like having madVR switch on 3D instead of leaving it on in the OS. So yup, that does make sense to me. All things I'll need to learn when I eventually move to 4K. Just don't want to give up my 3D. SIGH

[walstib]

I've not had this issue with my 1060 and the latest nVidia drivers. That being said, I'm not using FSE as much these days as I was in the beginning when I first got the card. When I get a free minute I can test this out and reply back. Just an FYI, I've switched to the 64 bit builds, not that it should be relevant to your issue. Although, who knows, worth trying?

EDIT: P. S. Do you have 3D enabled in Windows display settings? If so, you may try turning that off and letting madVR turn it on when needed. There's been some screwy issues with that lately and I ended up disabling it in Windows which solved the problems I was having.

I'm on Windows 10 Creators Update; yeah - 3D is set dynamically (so typically off). I also am trying the 64bit build.

It's weird that for 2D, FSE kicks in but for 3D it does not. Dropping back down to MC22, and it works fine, 2D or 3D which leads me down the path of a JRiver issue.

Do you have the nVidia 3D Vision drivers installed? Assuming that is needed of course.

With the nVidia card I've never had 3D MVC working without FSE

[austinminton]

Thanks madshi for the new release. HDR in FSE is working again. I had skipped 0.92.2 because of this problem. Now that I have the latest release, i finally tried custom resolution. Works well, frpm one frame dropped every 12 mins to a drop once in 1.29 days!

Only problem now is that I don't get the OSD from my avr on the custom resolutions. Guessing its because the new resolution is not exactly 23/24p?

[CruNcher]

Is the current Afterburner release able to display it's Statistic server OSD successful into madvr D3D11 ?

http://leakimg.com/8siOzj0/image.png
http://leakimg.com/gvnLizT/image.png

i guess i need to update for Pascal anyway now to get rid of this hysteresis occurring now inside the semi passive cards Design :(

[aufkrawall]

Is the current Afterburner release able to display it's Statistic server OSD successful into madvr D11 ?

Is it that much work to tick the checkbox and try it out yourself? :rolleyes:

[CruNcher]

i thought i get away from updating it if it wouldn't work anyways no real reason for it but thinking about it to access the nice new power curves to maybe be able to fix the hysteresis (by undervolting to get lower heat dissipation for the fans to turn on, off, on, off,on off as crazy as they do currently) here i wont have another option anyways as to update it i guess if i want or not.

I could lower madvrs render overhead maybe a little further i guess but that wouldn't be really the right way to tackle this, last option i would try.

ultimately i want to get rid of this

http://leakimg.com/oJ9DNu8/image.png

you can see how the hysteresis starts to creep up reaching the starting point @ 52-53°C then it starts to on,off,on,off

i want to avoid this without additional cooling which i think is unnecessary for this use case.

[madshi]

@madshi FYI, I'm using 1703 (15063.608) + GTX 1070 + I've reset to the default settings too. The videos don't flicker, but the OSD does flicker under windowed mode only.
That's strange, not sure what's going on, I'll try to reproduce it here. Does this only apply to the Ctrl+J OSD, or also to things like e.g. the FSE seekbar or OSD texts like "Paused" etc?

@madshi, could you please give us a little up-to-date writeup which parameters of GPUs are most important for madVR speed? something which we can use as guidelines when looking for a new graphics card. e.g. when going to the "List of Nvidia graphics processing units" and "List of AMD graphics processing units" at wikipedia, which coloms of features (like bandwith for example) are most important.

would love to see this a) for general madVR speed and b) additional/different factors which possibly come into play with SSIM downscaling and NGU upscaling (if there are any compared to the general ones)
a simple example.
you have an old GCN 1.0 like a r9 270 with about 2.5 Gflop and compare it to a new GCN 2.0 RX 480 with 6 Gflops than the RX 480 is at least double as fast as the r9 270 but with NGU that not the case because of drivers or/and other stuff.

so a bigger card in the same series is generally faster for madVR and a bigger card is usually faster in everything.
^

Generally, game performance is roughly similar to madVR performance, with the weird exception of NGU which seems to be somewhat slower on Polaris GPUs compared to other GPUs.

Solved the issue.
Here are the steps on a clean install of the display driver and madVR:
1. Set the NVIDIA color settings to "use nvidia color settings".
2. In madVR control panel, create the custom resolution.
3. Go to NVIDIA control panel - resolution not listed there.
4. Click on "Customize..." to get to the create new custom resolution screen.
5. You'll see the custom resolution that madVR had created - but it's unchecked (as in - disabled). Check it and click OK.
6. New custom mode appears on the main resolution selection screen (although listed as 24hz).
7. madVR now changes to that resolution when choosing 2160p23 regardless of the mode (FSE/D3D9/DSD11).
Interesting!! I'm not sure about the "unchecked" in step 5. I'm using the private Nvidia API to create custom resolutions, and I don't remember seeing an option there to "enable" und "disable" custom modes like that. But I'll double check.

@madshi : I tested the screenshot functionnality with MediaPortal (latest "madVR test build" v327), but it only works with D3D9 presentation and not D3D11. Is this a bug, or do you think it's because MediaPortal is using D3D9 for its GUI and it somehows conflicts with madVR's screen capture?
I've been working with one of the MediaPortal devs on this. I think this will probably be fixed in a future MediaPortal version.

Tiny bug: The settings page is called "screeenshots" with 3 "e"s :)

Edit: Just tried it, seems to work well!
Ooops, thanks!

Linear light for downscaling after using NGU?

Was it a choice not to show linear light in the stats?
After NGU upscaling it's probably less useful than when downscaling content directly, without having it doubled before. It's on my to do list to maybe add the LL info to the OSD.

Does anyone know what is the reason for such kind of artifacts? They are appearing only while playing 4K HDR 10 bit content on non HDR displays. The artifacts are there regardless of the decoder chosen in LAV Video and whether or not I am using HDR to SDR conversion in madVR.
No idea. Does it also happen with copyback, or with other video renderers?

When switching to FSE the player freezes. This deoesn't happen before v.23
What is v.23? Can you create a freeze report for me? (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break/Pause)

i just tested in FSE Mode now, cause i didnt have the time really, it is working way better now, from 8 times i started the movie, only 2 times it happened that the render queue didnt fill up..

im going to test some more over the weekend and will be back with more detailed results + an error report, or an LOG where it shows what happens when the queue doesnt fill up..
So how does it compare to older madVR builds? Is it the same as e.g. v0.91.x? Or was it better some time ago? If so, can you pinpoint the exact version where the issue was introduced?

also, just an littel observation, when the gpu´s VRam downclocks the render times tripple. and sometimes the queue starts to lag behind a bit. from 9/10 to 8/10.
when i use CUDA in LAV, this does not happen since Cuda doesnt downclock, but thats not what i want..i guess theres nothing you can do against this behavior. id just wish the vram wouldnt or only downclock to 1500 or 2000 instead of 350mhz..(3050) is normal.
It's been reported multiple times recently that especially Nvidia GPUs have trouble in madVR with the latest drivers when dynamically downswitching. Various users have reported that setting the GPU to "Adaptive" power seems to fix the problem. Maybe that will also fix your problems?

Using 0.92.3, trying mode switching for the first time on a desktop monitor (1920x1080 native). madVR switches to the custom mode just fine (1080p75), but doesn't restore the current mode (1080p71) when I close the player as I've specified in the settings. I'm running the current version of Win 10, and the OS recognizes both modes. Standard is a custom mode that gives me a 71.928 refresh rate.

Am I doing something wrong? Any workarounds?
Are you sure that the media player is really totally closed? Maybe it's still lurking in the background as a zombie process?

If you're sure that the media player process is really completely gone then can you please create a debug log, zip it, upload it somewhere (don't attach here) and then link to it here?

Having issues with the combo of madVr 0.92.3, JRiver MC23, and MVC 3D playback.

I have an nVidia 1080TI (latest drivers), and in order for MVC to work properly, it has to kick into FSE. Unfortunately since Jriver 23, this rarely if ever works. madVr won't switch out of windowed mode.
Please create a debug log, zip it, upload it somewhere (don't attach here) and then link to it here. Please make sure you have the Ctrl+J OSD active while creating the debug log. Thanks.

What is or should braking the Windows 7 SP1 Platform Update here ?

other D3D11 renderer work also without problems ?
Everything worked under Win 7 before some stuff im reading here about DXVA failing now makes me pretty nervous im pretty unsure to update either lav filters, nvidia drivers nor madvr from this relatively stable state i was in (currenty im in), which suddenly seems broken for so many resulting even in crashes ?
Idiotic movements someone should start doing a Vulkan Video Renderer and Decoder not following this crap path.
Just to make sure that there are no misunderstandings:

Nothing has changed whatsoever about software decoding, native DXVA decoding, copyback DXVA decoding, D3D11 presentation/rendering, CUVID decoding, whatever. It's all the same and should still work as well as in older madVR + LAV builds.

The only thing that has changed is that there is now a new (and additional, optional) decoder in LAV called "D3D11". This new decoder is somewhat similar to the older DXVA2 decoder, except that DXVA2 is based on D3D9 while the new D3D11 decoder is based based on D3D11. You don't have to use the new decoder, you can stick to what you were using before, and nothing should change for you.

The reason why the new decoder doesn't work on Windows 7 is a limitation of the Microsoft Windows 7 APIs, even with the Platform update installed. The API limitation in detail is that madVR wants to access the luma and chroma channels directly in its pixel shaders, in order to provide exactly the same lossless quality as when using software or DXVA copyback decoding. But Windows 7 doesn't allow accessing the D3D11 decoder textures from within D3D11 pixel shaders. This feature was introduced only in Windows 8, and the Windows 7 Platform Update doesn't retro fit it, unfortunately. We've tried, but it simply isn't available.

FYI, when using DXVA2 native decoding, the same problem exists. It's not possible to access the luma and chroma channels directly because neither D3D9 nor D3D11 pixel shaders can access DXVA2 decoding surfaces directly, in any OS. So as a result, chroma quality is very slightly lower when using DXVA2 native decoding. That's one of the reasons why nevcairiel and I implemented the new D3D11 decoder - but sadly the benefits only work on Windows 8+.

Vulkan would have no benefit for me, considering that madVR is Windows, only. Most likely Vulkan GPU drivers will be less stable than D3D drivers for a while yet, so changing to Vulkan would only make things less stable than they are now. Going Vulkan makes sense mostly for devs who want to go multi-platform. Sadly, I don't have the resources to do that at this point in time.

[madshi]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1816765#post1816765

This is still happening with native mode and v0.92.3. But now it's random and when it does happen the video does not recover, it just freezes and I have to End Task MPC-BE.
Could you please create another debug log for this situation, and ideally also a freeze report (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Pause/Break)?

Hi Madshi, i still can´t get My TV to switch to HDR.

For testing i made a new Install Win 10 1703.
AMD RX560 @Crimson ReLive Edition 17.9.1
Lav Nightly 70.2-74
Madvr 92.3

Desktop is set to 1080 Full RGB 4:4:4
Win 10 HDR switch off
(when i use the Win10 HDR switch, TV is switching to HDR)
settings:

https://picload.org/view/dgdarccr/lav.jpg.html
https://picload.org/view/dgdarcil/relive.jpg.html
https://picload.org/view/dgdarcca/madvr1.jpg.html
https://picload.org/view/dgdarccl/madvr2.jpg.html
https://picload.org/view/dgdarcci/madvr3.jpg.html
https://picload.org/view/dgdarccw/madvr4.jpg.html
https://picload.org/view/dgdarcir/madvr5.jpg.html
https://picload.org/view/dgdarcia/madvr6.jpg.html

When Playing HDR content Madvr Overlay shows
https://picload.org/view/rwipgpaw/osd.jpg.html


One other thing maybe its the same Problem.
When i set manual 10bit my AVR info shows 10bit.
When madvr switches to 4k TV stream (Fashion 4K..), it (OSD) shows P010 10bit, but AVR info say 8bit.
Have you tried resetting madVR to default settings, and then re-enter the necessary settings like 10bit display bitdepth and D3D11 presentation? I'm asking because you have some somewhat unusual settings, like D3D11 presentation, but without the "present a frame for every VSync" option active, and with "present frames in advance" unchecked.

Also, have you tried FSE mode?

Which media player are you using? And you didn't remove the "amd_ags_???.dll" files, did you?

Your AVR only reporting 8bit even though the madVR reads 10bit is an ominous sign. It should really be 10bit.

Still does not auto switch to HDR on AMD. I have to switch manually in Win10 display settings.
Still does not work in fullscreen exclusive mode (washed out colors).
See also my reply directly above this one.

Washed out colors is with HDR switched on or off in the win10 display settings? If on, then it's a GPU driver or OS problem, nothing I can do about it.

EDIT: Just need to add that if I have 10 bit on in MadVR and 10 bit set in AMD display settings colorspace is wrong when playing 8 bit videos (everything is oversaturated). I have to manually set either the AMD display settings to 8 bit. Or MadVR to 8 bit in the display properties or use BT202 in MadVR calibration settings (close but not perfect doing it that way though) when both AMD and MadVR are set to 10 bit.
Is this once again with HDR turned on or off in the OS display settings? All hell will break lose if you enable that option, which is why I very strongly advice not to use it. The OS and drivers are terrible with that option turned on, nothing works correctly that way, in my experience. Not my fault. Please don't report bugs when the OS HDR switch is turned on. For now all problems with that configuration are very likely either OS or GPU driver issues, so I won't even try to look into it. Sorry. But Microsoft and the GPU manufacturers need to get their act together first to make the OS HDR option viable. For now the only thing we can do is to use the private AMD + Nvidia HDR APIs, which work much better, in my experience.

Thanks madshi for the new release. HDR in FSE is working again. I had skipped 0.92.2 because of this problem. Now that I have the latest release, i finally tried custom resolution. Works well, frpm one frame dropped every 12 mins to a drop once in 1.29 days!

Only problem now is that I don't get the OSD from my avr on the custom resolutions. Guessing its because the new resolution is not exactly 23/24p?
Weird. Yeah, I guess your AVR doesn't like the custom modes. Thankfully it at least seems to pass it through properly!

Apologies, let me clarify.
When I enable/disable the calibration I can visually see gamma/colour changes on the picture - that is the calibration being enabled/disabled.

Let me try and recap:

- "disable GPU gamma ramps" - unchecked. I can see the calibration is being applied and I am in windowed mode.

- MadVR switches to Exclusive: calibration not applied anymore ( I can see that visually)

- I switch back to windowed: calibration still not applied despite "disable GPU gamma ramps" is still unchecked.

- I check "disable GPU gamma ramps" in windowed mode: calibration not applied - as it should be, but it should have been applied before!

- I Uncheck "disable GPU gamma ramps" in windowed mode: now I see the calibration is being applied again.

- I switch back to exclusive mode: calibration is being disabled again (but "disable GPU gamma ramps" is still UNCHECKED).

I believe this is more obvious if your calibration is greatly different than your monitor native response - then you can clearly see the difference between calibration being enabled/disabled.
Thanks for your other advice: I already switched to 0-255 following a previous post.
All those settings changes are while the media player is still running, you didn't stop and restart it at any time between those steps you're rporting, is that correct?

Okay. Thanks.

Here's a screenshot of a sample of Life Of Pi, with all my mad VR settings.

https://abload.de/img/sinttulo76swp.png

My TV doesn't have a true 10 Bit panel, it has (i think) 8 bit + FRC. Maybe that's why colours are not right? Maybe I should set my display to 8 bit; madVR to 8 bit; disable dithering in madVr. And let the TV do its 8 bit + dithering when it detects the HDR signal? I'll give that a try.
Ok, thanks for the added details. I'm still missing some things, though. For several of my suggestions you said "I've already tried that", but you didn't say what the exact result of each of those tries was?

Generally, do you see any difference if you switch madVR's HDR settings back and forth between "let madVR decide" and "passthrough HDR content"? And is there any difference if you toggle between "send HDR metadata to the display" while "passthrough HDR content" is active?

[CruNcher]

@madshi
So as a result, chroma quality is very slightly lower when using DXVA2 native decoding. That's one of the reasons why nevcairiel and I implemented the new D3D11 decoder - but sadly the benefits only work on Windows 8+.

so slightly higher chroma quality fully accelerated under windows 8 by default not only your and nevs shaders ?

what is the difference you measured ?

Microsoft had this already with Windows Media Player for Windows 8 implemented since the beginning part of the new Media Foundation ?

[madshi]

so slightly higher chroma quality fully accelerated under windows 8 by default not only your and nevs shaders ?
Default is still whatever decoder LAV uses by default. Not sure which that is, but I don't think it's D3D11 yet at this point. madVR is still missing some features when using native D3D11 decoding, like DXVA/D3D11 deinterlacing + scaling. So it's still a work in progress. Not sure what you mean with "only your and nevs shaders"?

what is the difference you measured ?
Difference in what? Chroma quality? That depends on the GPU (drivers) and is not really "measurable". Speed should be similar to native DXVA2, maybe even a tiny bit faster (not sure).

Microsoft had this already with Windows Media Player for Windows 8 implemented since the beginning ?
I don't know. Maybe, but obviously Windows Media Player doesn't have any of madVR's high quality chroma and luma scaling algorithms, so having a higher chroma quality to start with probably didn't really bring much benefit for Windows Media Player users.

I rather think. though, that Windows Media Player probably asks D3D11/DXVA to directly convert the video to RGB, in which case you get chroma upscaling quality depending on GPU drivers, and no access to any custom scaling algorithms. In that case accessing luma and chroma channels separately probably was never used by Windows Media Player.

[Jasch]

[QUOTE=madshi;1818726
Have you tried resetting madVR to default settings, and then re-enter the necessary settings like 10bit display bitdepth and D3D11 presentation? I'm asking because you have some somewhat unusual settings, like D3D11 presentation, but without the "present a frame for every VSync" option active, and with "present frames in advance" unchecked.

Also, have you tried FSE mode?

Which media player are you using? And you didn't remove the "amd_ags_???.dll" files, did you?

Your AVR only reporting 8bit even though the madVR reads 10bit is an ominous sign. It should really be 10bit.

[/QUOTE]

Thx for the reply.

I have tried reset default, new windows install...
(madvr version 92.1 .2 .3)

"present a frame for every VSync" (i was thinking a while back someone stated, this must be off for HDR)
on and off makes no difference

"present frames in advance" unchecked.(i had this off all wayback, to gain faster zapping times in DVBViewer)
testet with on and off makes no difference.

FSE on or off no diff.

HDR let Madvr decide or pass. no diff.

I am using DVBViewer latest Version.

i did not remove those files amd_ags_???.dll, both are in the madvr folder.(should i ?)

One thing i was see, when i manual put 10bit Desktop,
normal 1080/720 is output 10bit(AVR report BT2020, Colors are borked)
when i start now 4K/23Hz HDR BT2020 File, its now 10bit 2020 but no HDR.
if i switch to 4k/50HZ BT709 TV stream -> its 4k50Hz 8bit.(osd says still 10, but AVR now says 8bit).

i have also try´d now without AVRm direct to TV but still the same no HDR.


Another Question, over testing i was seeing Travel 4K Channel on Astra who is HLG Testchanel (4K 50Hz BT2020, HLG) i guess there is no support for now. OSD did not show a sign of HDR.


If you need me something to test, just let me know.

[el Filou]

For me, deinterlacing is working if i use DX11 CB.
In LAV use DXVA11 and choose you GPU -> CB
Automatic -> nativeYes, I meant Native D3D11 deinterlacing.
At least on NVIDIA, I think D3D11 deinterlacing should be of better quality than DXVA2, because DXVA Checker reports it uses more past and future frames to analyse the interlacing with D3D11VA, so we might possibly get better quality with Native D3D11 deinterlacing when it's implemented.

I've been working with one of the MediaPortal devs on this. I think this will probably be fixed in a future MediaPortal version.Yes I've seen there's been a new test build, thanks! :)

[aufkrawall]

At least on NVIDIA, I think D3D11 deinterlacing should be of better quality than DXVA2, because DXVA Checker reports it uses more past and future frames to analyse the interlacing with D3D11VA, so we might possibly get better quality with Native D3D11 deinterlacing when it's implemented.

Judging by renderers who support it already, it still looks worse (aliased) than YADIF to me.

[mrmarioman]

Ok, thanks for the added details. I'm still missing some things, though. For several of my suggestions you said "I've already tried that", but you didn't say what the exact result of each of those tries was?

Generally, do you see any difference if you switch madVR's HDR settings back and forth between "let madVR decide" and "passthrough HDR content"? And is there any difference if you toggle between "send HDR metadata to the display" while "passthrough HDR content" is active?

No difference at all between "let madvr decide" and "passthrough hdr".

Yes, if I toggle that option the picture dims or lights up.

I think my problem is that I'm not seeing the Wide Colour Gamut colours -I'm just seeing rec709 colours with hdr.

Just tested a 'Patriot Day' sample, and I'm getting the same problem. Many of the colours that are visible using the TV's own player (via usb) are not visible on PC with mpc-hc+madvr.

I also tried with everything set to 8 bit and no dithering in madvr, didn't make any difference.

[Kotik]

Judging by renderers who support it already, it still looks worse (aliased) than YADIF to me.

Whats the current deinterlacing status on NVIDIA vs AMD? I remember some years ago that AMD hardware deinterlacing was slightly better than NVIDIA, is it still the case?

[oddball]

Thanks madshi for the new release. HDR in FSE is working again. I had skipped 0.92.2 because of this problem. Now that I have the latest release, i finally tried custom resolution. Works well, frpm one frame dropped every 12 mins to a drop once in 1.29 days!

Only problem now is that I don't get the OSD from my avr on the custom resolutions. Guessing its because the new resolution is not exactly 23/24p?

I am guessing you are an Nvidia owner. I have yet to hear of anyone with an AMD GPU getting HDR working correctly in FSE nor auto switching to HDR when HDR is set to off in display settings.

[oddball]

Could you please create another debug log for this situation, and ideally also a freeze report (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Pause/Break)?


Have you tried resetting madVR to default settings, and then re-enter the necessary settings like 10bit display bitdepth and D3D11 presentation? I'm asking because you have some somewhat unusual settings, like D3D11 presentation, but without the "present a frame for every VSync" option active, and with "present frames in advance" unchecked.

Also, have you tried FSE mode?

Which media player are you using? And you didn't remove the "amd_ags_???.dll" files, did you?

Your AVR only reporting 8bit even though the madVR reads 10bit is an ominous sign. It should really be 10bit.


See also my reply directly above this one.

Washed out colors is with HDR switched on or off in the win10 display settings? If on, then it's a GPU driver or OS problem, nothing I can do about it.


Is this once again with HDR turned on or off in the OS display settings? All hell will break lose if you enable that option, which is why I very strongly advice not to use it. The OS and drivers are terrible with that option turned on, nothing works correctly that way, in my experience. Not my fault. Please don't report bugs when the OS HDR switch is turned on. For now all problems with that configuration are very likely either OS or GPU driver issues, so I won't even try to look into it. Sorry. But Microsoft and the GPU manufacturers need to get their act together first to make the OS HDR option viable. For now the only thing we can do is to use the private AMD + Nvidia HDR APIs, which work much better, in my experience.


Weird. Yeah, I guess your AVR doesn't like the custom modes. Thankfully it at least seems to pass it through properly!


All those settings changes are while the media player is still running, you didn't stop and restart it at any time between those steps you're rporting, is that correct?


Ok, thanks for the added details. I'm still missing some things, though. For several of my suggestions you said "I've already tried that", but you didn't say what the exact result of each of those tries was?

Generally, do you see any difference if you switch madVR's HDR settings back and forth between "let madVR decide" and "passthrough HDR content"? And is there any difference if you toggle between "send HDR metadata to the display" while "passthrough HDR content" is active?


Doesn't work. Nevever worked. Cleared out MadVR several times. Been through a few driver updates and now a change of GPU (RX 480 to RX Vega 56). Still the same issue. Private AMD does not work to auto switch to HDR. It just plays HDR converted to fake HDR colors when HDR is switched off in Win10 display settings. I don't have HDR switched on by default. If I switch HDR on then HDR works but ONLY with FSE unticked. If FSE is ticked I get washed out colors. I have yet to see an AMD GPU owner state that HDR is correctly switching with HDR turned off in Win10 settings and FSE ticked. But please do chime in if anyone has.

To get correct color output (with HDR switched off in Win10 display settings) I either have to set 8 bit in AMD Relive, MAdVR or just set MadVR to Rec 2020 colorspace.

I wish you had a recent AMD GPU and HDR UHD TV to play around with so you could see what is happening.

[oddball]

No difference at all between "let madvr decide" and "passthrough hdr".

Yes, if I toggle that option the picture dims or lights up.

I think my problem is that I'm not seeing the Wide Colour Gamut colours -I'm just seeing rec709 colours with hdr.

Just tested a 'Patriot Day' sample, and I'm getting the same problem. Many of the colours that are visible using the TV's own player (via usb) are not visible on PC with mpc-hc+madvr.

I also tried with everything set to 8 bit and no dithering in madvr, didn't make any difference.

Try with fullscreen exclusive unticked it's the only way I could get it to display HDR. On the RX 480 I had to click on the MadVR icon though to get it working otherwise the colors were washed out. On my new RX Vega I don't need to do that and in fact if I click the MadVR icon the colors instead go psykadelic!

[jkauff]

Are you sure that the media player is really totally closed? Maybe it's still lurking in the background as a zombie process?
You're right, the players I use (MPC-BE, MPC-HC, JRiver MC) don't completely close. I had tried a workaround, adding the default 1080p71 mode to the list madVR can use, but it didn't work. Turns out madVR calls this rate 71, as does Windows, but Nvidia calls it 72. Once I added 1080p72, mode switching works fine. Doesn't solve the original problem, but I'm getting what I want.

Another totally different problem: madVR never manages to optimize my custom rates. I follow the instructions, play a video at that resolution for 30 minutes or more, but when I click Optimize again I get the original popup, never the analysis results popup. I'm using a native driver for the monitor, using a GTX 1060 with the latest driver. EDID is read with no problem.

[aufkrawall]

Whats the current deinterlacing status on NVIDIA vs AMD? I remember some years ago that AMD hardware deinterlacing was slightly better than NVIDIA, is it still the case?
I couldn't see difference between cuvid and quicksync in motion, so I'd be surprised if AMD was really better.
Maybe there are differences and I can't just see them with my limited samples. However, even with a few videos, the advantage of YADIF seems uncatchable.

[Kotik]

I couldn't see difference between cuvid and quicksync in motion, so I'd be surprised if AMD was really better.
Maybe there are differences and I can't just see them with my limited samples. However, even with a few videos, the advantage of YADIF seems uncatchable.


There was a test sample lurking somewhere on avs forums some years ago, it had moving text + stacked up lines all over the place. I remember running it to compare my SkyLake iGPU vs AMD deinterlacers, AMD had better results.
I am not sure if this test video should be taken seriously when comparing and in any case i never had an NVidia card to run the test there.
Is it possible to double the frames with YADIF? Hardware deinterlacers always double the output.

[nevcairiel]

There was a test sample lurking somewhere on avs forums some years ago, it had moving text + stacked up lines all over the place. I remember running it to compare my SkyLake iGPU vs AMD deinterlacers, AMD had better results.
I am not sure if this test video should be taken seriously when comparing

That particular video had one purpose - identifying which GPU algorithm was actually in use on AMD, because AMD screwed their options up so much back then that you could never tell.

Its otherwise quite far from reality for actual content.

[aufkrawall]

YADIF allows to choose between film and video mode (LAV Filters offer this).

YADIF:
https://abload.de/thumb/yadifpvu8p.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=yadifpvu8p.png)

DXVA2 Nvidia:
https://abload.de/thumb/dxva230ukn.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dxva230ukn.png)

It's frame 480/960 of the H.264 interlaced sample offered by the Kodi page (I however reencoded it as interlaced because the original sample doesn't meet hardware decoding specs).
YADIF isn't perfect here either, but that aliasing of GPU deinterlacing is just devilish...

[Kotik]

YADIF allows to choose between film and video mode (LAV Filters offer this).



Yep noticed it, thanx.

The difference on your sample is huge indeed. I wonder how AMD performs on this sample, could you upload it somewhere so I can run it through here.

[aufkrawall]

Here it is:
http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/ldGtNBxW/file.html

[Kotik]

https://abload.de/thumb/amdo2sdm.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=amdo2sdm.png)

This is with AMD, clearly better than NVidia.

[aufkrawall]

Seems it looks much better. But could you try getting the exact same frame? It should work by jumping to frame 480 or 960 in MPC HC.

[austinminton]

I tried the new D3D11 decoder on LAV (0.72.2.74). On a perfectly running setup of DXVA2 copyback, just changed it to D3D11 and left hardware device at automatic. MPC-HC (1.7.13-x64) now launches and madvr resolution change kicks in, but the video doesn't play at all. Just stays paused. Ctrl-J doesn't work. Even if I go into windowed from FSE, it stays paused and doesn't play. What am I missing please?

Windows 10 pro (x64) creators update, nvidia 1080 (385.41)

[huhn]

aufkrawall please check the same frame in EVR not EVR CP.
i'm now pretty sure that there is a bug in madVR DXVA handling.
just look a little bit closer we have the same chroma sub pixel offset as with DXVA chroma scaling.

never forget that nvidia, intel and amd are using frame adaptive deinterlancer so if you just jump to a frame it will not work properly.

[CruNcher]

YADIF allows to choose between film and video mode (LAV Filters offer this).

YADIF:
https://abload.de/thumb/yadifpvu8p.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=yadifpvu8p.png)

DXVA2 Nvidia:
https://abload.de/thumb/dxva230ukn.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dxva230ukn.png)

It's frame 480/960 of the H.264 interlaced sample offered by the Kodi page (I however reencoded it as interlaced because the original sample doesn't meet hardware decoding specs).
YADIF isn't perfect here either, but that aliasing of GPU deinterlacing is just devilish...

The Psy difference here is sharpness response in motion it's cleaner with Nvidias Result.

also look closer on the very fine details the guitar strings especially they get reconstructed very nicely very precise yadif looses them a little bit aliased yes but not vaporized

depending on the output device distance and overal setup to it the aliasing would slowly vanish you shouldn't really percept it that much any more in motion but chances are high you gonna still percept the finer details rather unknowingly in motion ;)

And as Huhn said that extreme aliasing result looks overall strange to begin with for Nvidias Temporal Deinterlacer when the output is right :D

[SamuriHL]

I tried the new D3D11 decoder on LAV (0.72.2.74). On a perfectly running setup of DXVA2 copyback, just changed it to D3D11 and left hardware device at automatic. MPC-HC (1.7.13-x64) now launches and madvr resolution change kicks in, but the video doesn't play at all. Just stays paused. Ctrl-J doesn't work. Even if I go into windowed from FSE, it stays paused and doesn't play. What am I missing please?

Windows 10 pro (x64) creators update, nvidia 1080 (385.41)

Do you have 3D enabled in the Windows display settings? If so, disable it and try again.

[aufkrawall]

aufkrawall please check the same frame in EVR not EVR CP.

There is basically no difference with EVR.
It's true that GPU deinterlacing looks better in motion than with still image, however it's still more aliased than YADIF. The result is temporally less stable.

[Kotik]

never forget that nvidia, intel and amd are using frame adaptive deinterlancer so if you just jump to a frame it will not work properly.

That's actually right, cause I cannot get a decent result by just jumping into a frame with the "Navigate To" option. It looks terrible.

In any case i skipped madVR here and went for EVR. Both tests were used with "Go To".

YADIF:

https://abload.de/thumb/yadifevrvideomodeqdkwj.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=yadifevrvideomodeqdkwj.png)

AMD:

https://abload.de/thumb/amdevrvideomodetxjii.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=amdevrvideomodetxjii.png)

[austinminton]

Do you have 3D enabled in the Windows display settings? If so, disable it and try again.

Thanks for your reply. 3D is disabled both in windows and nvidia control panel.

[Sebastiii]

Thanks for your reply. 3D is disabled both in windows and nvidia control panel.

Maybe you need to create a freeze report ?
:)

[huhn]

@Kotik
i wonder why the YADIF frame shows interlancing lines.

i'm not shocked that amd deinterlancer shows the interlancing it is not made for one frame.

after a couple of frames i'm not a fan of this file i found frames where the chroma channel doesn't match the luma channel.
@aufkrawall
this is my 480 nvidia frame without goto: https://abload.de/img/480mesbt.png

using goto to test a frame adaptive deinterlancer is a viable.

[CruNcher]

That's actually right, cause I cannot get a decent result by just jumping into a frame with the "Navigate To" option. It looks terrible.

In any case i skipped madVR here and went for EVR. Both tests were used with "Go To".

YADIF:

https://abload.de/thumb/yadifevrvideomodeqdkwj.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=yadifevrvideomodeqdkwj.png)

AMD:

https://abload.de/thumb/amdevrvideomodetxjii.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=amdevrvideomodetxjii.png)

What i really don't understand for what do we have shadowplay and Crimson ReLive and Microsofts Game Capture and so many other these days just capture the result and then use the captured frame ;)


@Kotik
i wonder why the YADIF frame shows interlancing lines.

i'm not shocked that amd deinterlancer shows the interlancing it is not made for one frame.

after a couple of frames i'm not a fan of this file i found frames where the chroma channel doesn't match the luma channel.
@aufkrawall
this is my 480 nvidia frame without goto: https://abload.de/img/480mesbt.png

using goto to test a frame adaptive deinterlancer is a viable.

yep strings reconstructed for the awefull quality of the input source even very nicely :)

[nevcairiel]

What i really don't understand for what do we have shadowplay and Crimson ReLive and Microsofts Game Capture and so many other these days just capture the result and then use the captured frame ;)

Because a lossy compression of a video makes any comparison of fine details null and void.

[CruNcher]

it should be able to capture what happens on the strings even with Nvidias and AMDs Encoder setup and you don't need to capture lossy at all it just the easiest way any avg joe can do it these days pre integrated unless it's a secured dxva path that displays it :D

[austinminton]

Maybe you need to create a freeze report ?
:)

If only my keyboard had a pause/break button :) (logitech k810). Will try to figure it out.

A bit more digging and I found this behaviour.

I have launch files in full screen enabled in mpc-hc. A double click on an mkv launches mpc-hc in full screen and everything stays paused. FSE on or off doesn't make a difference.

However, if I open the file from within mpc, it doesn't go into full screen on its own and the file plays. Going into full screen keeps the video going, but on exit full screen, video pauses again.

[aufkrawall]

using goto to test a frame adaptive deinterlancer is a viable.
Well, I already commented on the result in motion.

[huhn]

it should be able to capture what happens on the strings even with Nvidias and AMDs Encoder setup and you don't need to capture lossy at all it just the easiest way any avg joe can do it these days pre integrated unless it's a secured dxva path that displays it :D

AMD doesn't support lossless encoding and not sure if ffmpeg can decode lossless nvidia encodes.

and catching the same frame get's even harder this way and so many other problems and stuff that can go wrong...

[Kotik]

So here is the result in motion without using "Go To"

AMD:

https://abload.de/thumb/amd8xayf.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=amd8xayf.png)

So how does it compare to NVidia?

By the looks of it AMD Deinterlacing is better. Or someone sees something that i don't?

Especially on the parts that i marked, this is @huhn sceenshot with NVidia, on the one that i uploaded here AMD does a slightly better job with the lines.

https://abload.de/thumb/capture38rvb.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=capture38rvb.png)

P.S Don't try to compare based on the marked screencap, try to compare the original screen capture of Huhn.

[huhn]

not the same frame and nearly for sure not the same chroma scaler.

and even with 2 identical frames you can't say deinterlancer X is in general better because it could fail in other situations.

aufkrawall yadif: http://abload.de/img/yadifpvu8p.png
mine nvdia DXVA: https://abload.de/img/480mesbt.png

DXVA deinterlancing has an offest in the chroma here so it is chroma bleeding quite hard but as far as i can see line handling is a lot better with DXVA on this image.
not sure how YADIF works maybe it needs multiply frames too so this could be a worthless frame too.

[Kotik]

How did u manage to get to frame 480 without using "Go To"? And which renderer did u use?

[aufkrawall]

You don't notice the aliasing in motion with Nvidia?

[huhn]

madVR. mpc-HC goto 480, x2 control left arrow key, 4x control right arrow key should do the job.

[huhn]

You don't notice the aliasing in motion with Nvidia?

a small guess you using 6 or less GPU queue?