madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

that actually works with nvidia and some TVs sadly not all.

[If6was9]

But why before wanting to use the 10bit at all costs, don't you do this test, to check if your chain be able to support them?
madVR 8bit + dithering V.S. 10bit direct
Surely you will discover the nature of your panels, and many the goodness of the work done by madVR.:
http://tweakvideo.altervista.org/blog/test-per-capire-se-il-display-supporta-i-10-bit-colore-con-madvr/

[If6was9]

Your projector goes into HDR mode at 8bit output madVR settings? :eek:

Of course, with EDID1

[chros]

You can use the same P3 or BT2020 calibration for everything with a flat panel, but not with a projector if you care about picture quality. Using the same calibration for HDR and SDR raises the black floor and lowers the contrast in SDR unnecessarily. Not a problem with OLED, but an issue with projectors.
Oh, thanks.

What are you trying to accomplish? With DisplayCal, it takes just a few minutes to calculate the additional LUTs.
:) Exactly this is what I do *not* want to do :) I only want to use 1 madvr slot.

[mclingo]

I with the RX580 in 8bit quietly send the HDR to the PJ
I see that you use full 4:4:4 RGB color space at 60hz,
maybe that's the problem, and not the AMD drivers.
There are very few chains that can manage 4K HDR in full RGB 60hz, let alone 10bit,
but it's not an AMD problem

I thought that too, this has been discussed in detail a couple of times but never got any traction, sadly this is mainly an NVIDIA problem fix thread...., only joking.. :)

I've also tried 442 and 420, all exhibit the same problem, it happens to me with all SDR material, nobody has been able to explain why calibrating for BT2020 fixes it or why this only effects resolution sub 60hz, its not my TV or receiver either as I bypassed my receiever and tried my other non HDR TV, the problem is definately generated at the PC end before it goes to TV.

I can understand MADSHI reluctance to look at something which only affects one set of cards but he seems happy to deal with NVIDIA problems which dont effect AMD cards, so I live in the hope he'll get time to have a look at this at some point once he's finished with projectors and HDR.

Main thing though I guess is we have several workarounds people can use, this problem is the only issue AMD cards have so we should be grateful for that I guess.

[mclingo]

blocking 10 bit for SDR would be ok if the issue would be present all the time like it was blocked on nvidia because nvidia broke it and there was no except everyone got the problem but as far as i can see it right now that's not the case her.

custom rates is useful for AMD and intel user too and you know that...

I dont think there are any exceptions here either, anyone using a 10 bit AMD HDR MADVR setup playing a 23,976 SDR movies should have over saturation mainly in reds, it can be quite subtle on some movies though.

Hit me up if you dont have this problem AMD users, I'd be interested to know how you machine is setup in detail.

[clsid]

If you guys want all these drivers issues fixed, you should start by reporting them in the appropriate places: NVIDIA driver forum (https://forums.geforce.com/default/board/33/) and AMD driver forum (https://community.amd.com/community/support-forums/drivers-software). Get several people to report them and it will raise priority.

[mclingo]

Previous ticket:8200703976

well here's my ticket ref for AMD, I went as far as logging it as a fault, they seemed to be looking into it, they were replying every couple of days first with generic responses like reinstall drivers / windows etc but then they said it has been excalated to the drive team so I thought I was getting somewhere, next thing I know I got this:

This is an automatically generated email. Please do not reply.

Dear xxxxx,

You recently contacted AMD Global Customer Care.

If you submitted your request electronically, we have sent a response
to your inquiry and have had no reply from you in the last 10 days.

The then closed the issue pretending I hadnt contacted them further, even though I had several times asking why I was getting this email.

They've done this twice to me with this problem, I just gave up in the end, i'm not logging it again, someone else needs to take on the baton.

:)

[mclingo]

what we really need is someone who can work out what the problem is so we can go back to AMD and state clearly what they problem is and what needs to be done, half the problem is explaining the issue, its complicated when you factor in MADVR, bits and colour spaces etc.

[mclingo]

If you guys want all these drivers issues fixed, you should start by reporting them in the appropriate places: NVIDIA driver forum (https://forums.geforce.com/default/board/33/) and AMD driver forum (https://community.amd.com/community/support-forums/drivers-software). Get several people to report them and it will raise priority.

Note also, this is hardly the appropriate place to log an AMD fault, this forum is not watched or moderated by AMD, you have to log a fault direct yourself where they can ignore it officially.

[madjock]

He says ....3 posts in a row. :rolleyes:

[Warner306]

what we really need is someone who can work out what the problem is so we can go back to AMD and state clearly what they problem is and what needs to be done, half the problem is explaining the issue, its complicated when you factor in MADVR, bits and colour spaces etc.

Why don't you just send them the link I posted earlier with a complete summary of the steps to reproduce the issue? I could add "23-24 Hz Output Only" if that is also true.

[Alexkral]

because madVR can output what ever you want the HDR->SDR doesn't change this.
if an bt2020 SDR file is played madVR will do the "same".
i have no clue if the madVR gamut mapping (not HDR related) using a roll of or is clipping or something else and i don't know that for 3D LUT too. i guess it's clipping.

Colorimetric LUTs always clip, I guess madVR too. This is HDR related because in this case many colors are out of gamut because of the luminance.

[mclingo]

Why don't you just send them the link I posted earlier with a complete summary of the steps to reproduce the issue? I could add "23-24 Hz Output Only" if that is also true.

thanks but i'm done with this, already wasted too many hours with it, someone elses turn, plus i've already given AMD that info, dont you remember at the time, it was me you were discussing this with, I sent it to them the very next email, this is where they told me it had gone to the drivers guys, then the emails stopped and they closed the ticket for no reason.

Its a shame MADSHI doesnt have a contact at AMD like he does with NVIDIA.

[x7007]

Does anyone uses Potplayer with LavFilters 74 in HDR movie and HDR is engaged in Full Windowed mode and when you go to the button of the window to the seek bar and it disable HDR everytime the seek bar pop out and it goes HDR mode when it disappear again. It didn't happen before, I think I only change LavFilters from 73.1 can anyone check if it happens with 73.1 whoever who didn't update yet

[j_manou]

Does anyone uses Potplayer with LavFilters 74 in HDR movie and HDR is engaged in Full Windowed mode and when you go to the button of the window to the seek bar and it disable HDR everytime the seek bar pop out and it goes HDR mode when it disappear again. It didn't happen before, I think I only change LavFilters from 73.1 can anyone check if it happens with 73.1 whoever who didn't update yet

DsPlayer does the same but when i press volume control and also when i press Ctrl + S for the Madvr setup. But it started after last windows update.

[tp4tissue]

Colorimetric LUTs always clip, I guess madVR too. This is HDR related because in this case many colors are out of gamut because of the luminance.

Righto,

What is the info on how Madvr is handling the color space conversion.

I understand that it's slotting the P3 from HDR down to 709 by default.

But what if you gave it a p3 lut. does it then apply a different transformation ? or will the p3 lut cause oversaturation

[Alexkral]

Knowing that the content is P3 is only useful for non colorimetric rendering intents, because then the compression within 709 is less. If you don't change anything in the calibration tab then madVR will map 2020 to 709. This is not the same as a simple colorspace conversion, because it takes into account the luminance. If you give madVR a P3 HDR 3DLUT then madVR will do nothing, the LUT will do the tone mapping and change the coordinates to P3. Assuming that the content is really P3 and the screen is calibrated for P3, it will not cause oversaturation. I'm not sure if that's what you're asking.
Another story is that I'm seeing that secondary colors are usually slightly out of the P3 gamut. But since I don't think there are screens that go beyond P3, that doesn't change anything.

[tp4tissue]

Giving madvr a p3 lut, causing madvr to do nothing.

DO YOU MEAN, using the 3D lut to do tone mapping setting ?


That's not my question, I am not using the HDR tone mapping via lut setting.

My question is if I use a P3 SDR 3Dlut, would That cause oversaturation, because after madvr brings p3 down to rec709, then 709 is expanded again into P3 by the lut

[huhn]

if you use a source DCI p3 d65 3d lut madVR never down converting to bt709.

what the target of the 3d LUt is is a different story.

[tp4tissue]

Is using a p3 , 3dlut the correct operation if the monitor is in wide gamut ?

Does it do some sort of conversion from rec2020 container.

How is madvr handling the conversion between different spaces. is it via colormetric/ relative etc

[huhn]

if you load a source DCI p3 3d LUT madVR wil convert the image to DCI p3 first and that the end of madVR works.

with HDR it depends on a lot of settings and nothing you have to thing about.

[Alexkral]

I don't think that madVR does any color space conversion in that case, so the source profile for the 3DLUT should be 2020 and the target P3. Selecting P3 in "this display is already calibrated" should be more correct though.

[huhn]

madVR can't beat a 3D LUT in gamut mapping. doing the same in real-time is simply not possible.

so a BT 2020 -> DCI P3 3dLUT should be more accurate then the intenral workings but on the other hand the HDR mapping can be different when madVR does gamut mapping.

[Alexkral]

You said it, for the 3DLUT to do the gamut mapping it has to be loaded in the HDR tab. Loading it in the calibration tab there is no gamut mapping neither by the 3DLUT nor by madVR.

[huhn]

tone mapping is not gamut mapping.

gamut mapping is done by sdr 3d LUT when the gamut doesn't match.

[Alexkral]

Maybe I'm wrong but I do not think so. Gamut mapping implies taking the luminance into account, so that the result doesn't end out of gamut. I think that applying a 3DLUT to the output of the tone mapping shader could result in out of gamut values.

[huhn]

HDR-SDR conversation creates a normal SDR image so nothing changes for the 3D LUT.

[tp4tissue]

@ Alexkral

The 3DLUT definitely changes the image if applied. including for HDR 2 SDR.

It does not have to be in the HDR tonemapping tab. It works in the regular 3DLUT SDR calibration Tab.


I would never ever watch a movie without a 3DLUT. night and day.

It's like that episode of Rick and Morty when Morty experiences True-Level.. You can not go on without 3Dlut, everything's crooked.

https://imgur.com/LRgMGeP

[DMU]

Of course, with EDID1

I think this is not what is needed. Your projector does not receive meta, you simply force HDR mode.

[ka]

Hey guys I have 1080Ti and 7700k with AIO. My temps are at least 70-80 celcius while playing on 1440p resolution (144Hz with SVP) with 1080p Remux. It is too high same with when playing Battlefield V. Using Bicubic75-Ar-CUVID.

[tp4tissue]

Hey guys I have 1080Ti and 7700k with AIO. My temps are at least 70-80 celcius while playing on 1440p resolution (144Hz with SVP) with 1080p Remux. It is too high same with when playing Battlefield V. Using Bicubic75-Ar-CUVID.

Assuming the paste is fine, it comes down to fan curve.

Set it higher manually. If it doesn't respond to higher fan, then you need to repaste.

[el Filou]

Why would 70-80 be too high?
My 1050 Ti is rated for 83°. What's the rated temp. of a 1080 Ti?
Your card will be obsolete long before the GPU dies from heat.

[aduwind]

@CLSID
Optimized NVIDIA profile for MPC-HC/BE
:goodpost:

[ka]

Assuming the paste is fine, it comes down to fan curve.

Set it higher manually. If it doesn't respond to higher fan, then you need to repaste.

Actually my point is decreasing the load on both GPU and CPU because I dont want to hear fan noise, I want Madvr not to use to the very end.

[ryrynz]

To be blunt the only way I can see you achieving what you want is to drop SVP and use Smooth Motion instead, you may also need to lower a few madvr settings to assist further (trade quality for performance etc)

[NM20]

I have been trying to get the settings correct to tone map with Mad VR and my JVC X7500. I just want to be sure the settings I have are correct.


I have MAD VR and Nvidia settings at 0 - 255 and LAV on 16-235. Is this correct?


I have my JVC on Gamma 2.2, colour profile BT2020, colour temp HDR 6500k.


Nvidia settings are 12bit, RGB, with the latest drivers.


I have MAD VR calibration on DCI-P3 and Gamma Power Curve 2.4. I am not using any LUT files (I don't know how)


I have had my projector professionally calibrated for SDR and HDR, but since then have discovered MAD VR tone mapping.

The only issue I have come across is in the latest Mission Impossible in 4K, I got horizontal banding on the iMAX scenes towards the end. This happened in the sky mainly.


When looking at the MPC status, it says D3D11 Fullscreen Windowed (8 bit) should that not be 10 bit? Or is there anything else wrong with these settings?

I just want to make sure I am maximising the capability of my system.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qsJ5PJT6hcxF_z3CJw1mRxgP_DIiUPr8

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nPwD7Nf49wYW_8Xuy5VniHRNGUZIxoWj

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xdT1M9quBTyn-7s7rAojZq4mMOdPYQPE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GwcjUIjaA8-VL5Hrsn8wDfs8JDfTrwDz

16812

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[Warner306]

You could improve a couple of things:

- Set the projector gamma to 2.20 to match madVR.
- Select BT.2020 in madVR, or DCI-P3 with report BT.2020 to display checked. I've read that JVC projectors need a BT.2020 flag to select the correct color profile.

Did you select 10-bits in madVR? If you aren't getting 10-bits in the OSD, try enabling fullscreen exclusive mode. The video output levels checkboxes in LAV Filters aren't relevant, so I wouldn't worry about them.

The link in my signature has more information on tone mapping. The links "HDR -> SDR: Toolkit" and "HDR -> SDR Instructions: Mapping wide color gamuts" are most relevant.

[SirMaster]

Does anyone know if madVR tone-mapping handles HDR10+? Or should I avoid it and just stick with HDR10 for now. Would there even be a benefit to HDR10+ metadata over HDR10 for madVR's test builds with dynamic tone-mapping?

[Klaus1189]

[ATTACHMENTS]

Upload on external hoster such as Google drive or similar, other users like me cannot view them now, these are still pending.

[zapatista]

just use a synthetic 3D LUT.

and again HDR-SDR has nothing todo with this.

what is a "synthetic 3D LUT" ?

i am trying to figure out if i can create a 3DLut file for my display without using a light meter (or if i can use a generic 3DLut file for ex , if i know some of the basic parameters my display, like max nits, black level and the color space it is intended for).

one suggestion somebody made is that i might be able to create a 3D Lut profile from EDID data of the display with DisplayCAL

the main purpose of the 3D lut file would be to load it in madvr and send down converted 4k rec.2020 video to my 1080 display while maintaining the rec.2020 color space.

[huhn]

synthetic 3D LUT is a 3D LUT created by 2 synthetic profiles instead of using a synthetic source and a measured target/destination.

EDID information are not going to help you her.

i wanted to make a thread with common HDR->SDR 3D LUT and some normal ones like adobeRGB but i guessed this would do more harm then good.

[NM20]

Upload on external hoster such as Google drive or similar, other users like me cannot view them now, these are still pending.

Thanks. Links added to the original post.

[NM20]

You could improve a couple of things:

- Set the projector gamma to 2.20 to match madVR.
- Select BT.2020 in madVR, or DCI-P3 with report BT.2020 to display checked. I've read that JVC projectors need a BT.2020 flag to select the correct color profile.

Did you select 10-bits in madVR? If you aren't getting 10-bits in the OSD, try enabling fullscreen exclusive mode. The video output levels checkboxes in LAV Filters aren't relevant, so I wouldn't worry about them.

The link in my signature has more information on tone mapping. The links "HDR -> SDR: Toolkit" and "HDR -> SDR Instructions: Mapping wide color gamuts" are most relevant.

Thanks. I have added the images into the original link, so you will now get a better idea of the settings i am using. I will try the exclusive mode to see if that helps.

[mkohman]

Hi Guys,

A friend of mine has just setup madVR on his HTPC for HDR dynamic tone mapping etc.. He has an Epson 9300 which I believe is a 5040ub model. Can someone who has the Epson recommend which settings to choose on the projector please? Thank you so much :)

[tp4tissue]

i am trying to figure out if i can create a 3DLut file for my display without using a light meter


A synthetic lut would only be useful if the monitor is already extremely accurate in a preset colorspace.

This is NEVER the case. Even factory calibrated monitors will drift after 500-1000 hours. making the factory calibration worthless.

The factory calibrations will also not give you the maximum contrast ratio on the display, because you're fighting the preset whitepoint.

Using 3Dlut in general without at-least a colorimeter, is quite silly.

colormunki display or i1dpro, either one works great. It's worth everypenny, watching a movie without a 3DLut, You might as well stop, go outside and exercise, because movies look like crap without calibration.

[Warner306]

Thanks. I have added the images into the original link, so you will now get a better idea of the settings i am using. I will try the exclusive mode to see if that helps.

I would try removing the 8-bit profile to ensure 10-bits is being selected in the control panel. After that, if neither windowed mode or fullscreen exclusive mode is giving you 10-bit output, you should try another driver.

What driver version are you using?

[Warner306]

Does anyone know if madVR tone-mapping handles HDR10+? Or should I avoid it and just stick with HDR10 for now. Would there even be a benefit to HDR10+ metadata over HDR10 for madVR's test builds with dynamic tone-mapping?

madVR can't yet use HDR10+ metadata. I doubt there would be much of a difference compared to creating similar metadata with madMeasureHDR. And the live tone mapping already produces results similar to madMeasureHDR. So they should all be quite similar.

[svengun]

A synthetic lut would only be useful if the monitor is already extremely accurate in a preset colorspace.

colormunki display or i1dpro, either one works great. It's worth everypenny, watching a movie without a 3DLut, You might as well stop, go outside and exercise, because movies look like crap without calibration.


This is only for projector owners ? or would you state the same for a 55" OLED ?

[NM20]

I would try removing the 8-bit profile to ensure 10-bits is being selected in the control panel. After that, if neither windowed mode or fullscreen exclusive mode is giving you 10-bit output, you should try another driver.

What driver version are you using?

Thanks.

I am using the latest NVIDIA drivers, 417 maybe? I game on the PC too, so it needs to be the latest driver otherwise games don’t work.

Another issue I have noticed is my JVC projector had been on ‘standard’ for input level, I have changed it to ‘Auto’ that seems to have helped as the image was quite dark.