madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[nevcairiel]

The newer drivers are mostly suffering from trying to integrate with Microsofts HDR developments, which are not quite .. done, yet. Hopefully 10 1709 should resolve some of those issues, a NVIDIA rep hinted as much as well.

[cyber201]

It works for me, and as far as I've heard also for the other Nvidia users. On a purely technical level, the latest Nvidia drivers are not as good as the old drivers were for HDR switching, but I've managed to workaround the driver problems, so you shouldn't notice a difference.

Thanks...
You are great:D

[madshi]

The newer drivers are mostly suffering from trying to integrate with Microsofts HDR developments, which are not quite .. done, yet. Hopefully 10 1709 should resolve some of those issues, a NVIDIA rep hinted as much as well.
FWIW, I've tried to convince Microsoft to support dynamic HDR switching (I've even got a well known external expert involved). But so far I've failed. At this point I don't think Microsoft knows what they're doing. So I guess we'll have to stick with private Nvidia/AMD APIs for the forseeable future.

[Fabulist]

Why don't you simply give it a try? Shouldn't cost you more than 10 minutes. Maybe it works, and you just giving it a try will save us all precious time. If it doesn't work, the madLevelsTweaker also allows you to undo the tweak. So no harm done in any case.

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I use a receiver mainly for audio which bypasses video signal to the TV, hence I do not get the option to use the tool on the TV connected to the receiver, only the PC monitor seems selectable. I never really did have the option to try it.


See FAQ in the 2nd post of this thread.


I did read the FAQ in its entirety trying to find an answer, but the FAQ explanation does not apply to my situation.

You claim that setting the signal at NVIDIA's CP at Full is the best option for multiple reasons and that the only problem is with TV's that need a limited signal, something that can be fixed via madVR and therefore the only thing affected would be anything off the player.

Well this is not the case for me, since setting NVIDIA's CP dynamic range at Limited will provide a different output than having it at Full during playback, this is while having madVR and the TV set to "Limited". In reality, setting madVR or the TV to full will crush dark areas further, and having madVR and the TV to full with crush the image to almost complete darkness.

NVIDIA's CP settings override everything else, as does madVR and as do the TV's settings, to each its own.

If your TV supports RGB Full and madVR + GPU + TV are set to Full and you still get crushed blacks then it means your TV brightness setting is not correct.

I do not really know if the TV supports RGB, I know it has options to handle RGB, and I can tell you that I run various black level tests and it expects "Limited" levels by default according to these tests.

Increasing the brightness creates an unnaturally washed out video while the areas that are crushingly dark remain crushingly dark but bright dark, details are still lost - only a limited amount of areas which were too dark before become bearable afterwards.

I've tried DDU and clean install of several drivers (Edit: I've also tried madshi's NVIDIA levels tweaker but it has no effect). I wanted to avoid reinstalling Windows from scratch because that's the only thing that doesn't work right and it's clearly an NVIDIA problem and there's so much to reconfigure for HTPC use but that might be my only hope. :(

This is really peculiar, it sounds like a range issue DDU should have resolved, maybe try a fresh installation? You could try contacting your GPU's manufacturer (unless it's directly from NVIDIA). Companies like EVGA/ASUS and their forums that have a community oriented support are relatively knowledgeable and could help you with special issues such as these, maybe they have better ideas.

Other than that you can save all essential settings from the registry, like madVR/LAV/Player settings and so on.

[Manni]

The Vertex can remove the PQ flag and SMPTE 2086 metadata, but if the Nvidia GPU does more than that (e.g. actually send out YCbCr 4:2:0 pixels, but claim to send out RGB) then the Vertex won't help there.

The weird thing is that the issue only appears to apply to 60fps. Why is that? I find it hard to understand that, except if some of the parties involved change their behaviour because they believe the bandwidth is too high for HDMI. And since you said that directly connecting the HTPC to the JVC shows the same behaviour, it's most likely to be the GPU.

But then, why does 60fps HDR seem to work for everyone else (e.g. me)? I can only guess that your JVC's EDID block contains something that confuses the GPU, and that my EDID block is different. But I'm wildly speculating here...


I agree with the above in principle, and definitely with the part about the main culprit being the GPU, but then why would "don't send HDR metadata to the display" in MadVR prevent the GPU from doing what it's doing that confuses the display? Supposedly, this MadVR option only prevents the metadata from being sent. It shouldn't have any impact on whatever the GPU is doing under the hood if it's indeed sending YCC 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 while still reporting RGB. So I don't think that's what's at play here.

Given that not sending the metadata from MadVR solves the issue, logic would dictate that the issue is metadata related, not bandwidth or pixel format related.

Although the GPU sees the JVC EDID when connected directly to the JVC, it never sees it when the Vertex is in the chain as the Vertex sends a custom EDID with everything enabled. So I don't think it's EDID related.

But as we know, bugs and logic don't always go together... :)

I've emailed you a link to the Klute sample, with a short clip from the film and the menu as requested. Please let me know when you have it so I can delete it.

[ryrynz]

Well this is not the case for me, since setting NVIDIA's CP dynamic range at Limited will provide a different output than having it at Full during playback, this is while having madVR and the TV set to "Limited". In reality, setting madVR or the TV to full will crush dark areas further, and having madVR and the TV to full with crush the image to almost complete darkness.


This is the case for me too. For the longest time I had things set as recommended with full out and madVR set to TV levels but the output isn't correct. Set it to TV levels out and it's all as it should be. Dunno if it's something madshi can fix but I suspected this was all down to the TV expecting limited output and ruining the picture as a result. I can only expose the option to set full range on the tv if I use DVI out or strip the audio block from the HDMI signal. Since I Bitstream, setting to limited output seems like the best option.

[dvd1]

Those screenshots are from complex profile setups. Does the same problem still occur with default settings without any profiles? Which media player are you using? E.g. Kodi's dsplayer may overwrite madVR settings, depending on how you've configured it.

The GPU is at the limit when the average rendering time gets near to the "frame" interval (e.g. 41.71ms for 23.976fps movies).

576 TO 1080P D3D11
720P TO 1080P D3D11
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1819046#post1819046
only on the 1080p disables the D3D11 and I always have D3D9

[imhh11]

my JVC projector goes magenta too when I play HDR videos. 24 hz and 60 hz. The same thing happens with the Roku at 60z/hdr but it's working at 24hz/hdr. SDR/60hz is fine.
It also did the same thing before the ''Windows HDR update'' when I tried to play HDR games at 60hz. Now games are working.

If I enable Windows 10 hdr slider then no more magenta and hdr is working most of the time with madvr. Sometimes I get locked in a black screen and can only get out of it by accessing my pc remotely and by disabling the hdr slider.

madvr is set to '' let madvr decide''

No issue at all on my 2nd computer connected to an HDR tv.

[har3inger]

Madshi, latest update fixes the performance problem I mentioned with 10 bit files on my laptop. Thanks!

[Johnzilver]

If you also get crashes in copyback mode, can you please also upload a crash report for that?

The crash happens in the middle of playback? Or after you've done something, like seeking, stop/play etc?

You're using an outdated madVR build, though. I don't think updating to the latest build will help, but it might still be worth a try.


D3D11 copy/back: I have tested several times, and have only had problems a couple of times:
1. The video get stuck and does not let the player close.
The freeze report: https://mega.nz/#!JtcgEA7J!ntXOHvkchCfsUA4B1ZgDaqR-zwDZGiXGSYYx6b9qbpY

2. The player stops and does not let me create a freeze/crash report.
3. No MadVR crash this time.

D3D11 Native: I have problems mush more often (almost every tries) in the middle of playback, and almost every time I close the OSD (which sometimes freeze the entire PC, but still not tested with MadVR 0.92.4)

P.D.: I am using a generic driver but my laptop have a custom HP iGPU so I will test with the official driver, but i will not keep it because the generic driver is more stable for everything else, and it's too old.

[nsnhd]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmojo666
seems it works! now AMD is switchng my tv to hdr.

Am I Dreming?
[/QUOTE]
Finally!! It was working for me all the time, so I had a hard time understanding why it failed for everyone else...
madshi is offline Report Post [/QUOTE]

Does that mean now I can go out to buy any AMD RX4xx/5xx card to enjoy HDR without any worry ?

[Asmodian]

Well this is not the case for me, since setting NVIDIA's CP dynamic range at Limited will provide a different output than having it at Full during playback, this is while having madVR and the TV set to "Limited". In reality, setting madVR or the TV to full will crush dark areas further, and having madVR and the TV to full with crush the image to almost complete darkness.

NVIDIA's CP settings override everything else, as does madVR and as do the TV's settings, to each its own.

The GPU will always assume full range input so if you have both madVR and the GPU set to limited then the GPU will compress it again so you get something like 30-222 for the dynamic range. Your TV should never expect 30-222. :p

The limited and full range options do not change the data format, 0-255 (8-bit) is always sent, the only difference is if the range is compressed or not.

If you need the double compression your TV is using bad settings or has terrible black crush. Try out the levels test patterns AVS-HD 709 (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/#/topics/948496), they help with understanding what your TV is doing.

[Manni]

my JVC projector goes magenta too when I play HDR videos. 24 hz and 60 hz. The same thing happens with the Roku at 60z/hdr but it's working at 24hz/hdr. SDR/60hz is fine.
It also did the same thing before the ''Windows HDR update'' when I tried to play HDR games at 60hz. Now games are working.

If I enable Windows 10 hdr slider then no more magenta and hdr is working most of the time with madvr. Sometimes I get locked in a black screen and can only get out of it by accessing my pc remotely and by disabling the hdr slider.

madvr is set to '' let madvr decide''

No issue at all on my 2nd computer connected to an HDR tv.

Thanks, what do you call "Windows HDR update"? Is that the Spring Creators Update? What is your OS build, GPU and driver version please?

[chros]

Making a sample of the menu of a DVD is also relatively easy:
Just take all the files from the DVD, but leave out the VOB files for the main title (usually VTS_01_*.VOB, the set with all the 1GB files)
I noticed the same thing during the weekend with my old pc (current apps). I managed to sort it out by setting negative % for the "bottom" value in mpc-hc.
Note that there are 2 places in mpc-hc where you can set sub position.

Other question: can madvr output mvc 3d to 2 output like stereopistic player can?
My friend has a dual projector setup.
Thanks

[madshi]

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I use a receiver mainly for audio which bypasses video signal to the TV, hence I do not get the option to use the tool on the TV connected to the receiver, only the PC monitor seems selectable. I never really did have the option to try it.
Yes, you do have the option to try it. You simply start madLevelsTweaker.exe, and then move the window to the monitor which displays on your TV. That way madLevelsTweaker will modify the settings for your TV, not your PC monitor.

I did read the FAQ in its entirety trying to find an answer, but the FAQ explanation does not apply to my situation.
Yes, it does.

This is the case for me too. For the longest time I had things set as recommended with full out and madVR set to TV levels but the output isn't correct. Set it to TV levels out and it's all as it should be. Dunno if it's something madshi can fix but I suspected this was all down to the TV expecting limited output and ruining the picture as a result. I can only expose the option to set full range on the tv if I use DVI out or strip the audio block from the HDMI signal. Since I Bitstream, setting to limited output seems like the best option.
The GPU will always assume full range input so if you have both madVR and the GPU set to limited then the GPU will compress it again so you get something like 30-222 for the dynamic range. Your TV should never expect 30-222. :p

The limited and full range options do not change the data format, 0-255 (8-bit) is always sent, the only difference is if the range is compressed or not.

If you need the double compression your TV is using bad settings or has terrible black crush. Try out the levels test patterns AVS-HD 709 (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/#/topics/948496), they help with understanding what your TV is doing.
^

I can say with 100% reliability that setting both the GPU control panel *and* madVR to 16-235 ("limited") is definitely an incorrect setup and will never produce perfect results. If you guys get proper black & white levels only by setting both the GPU control panel and madVR to "limited" then something somewhere is totally screwed up. Because as Asmodian explained, in this situation the HTPC would output black as 30. Maybe your TV settings are screwed up. Or maybe your GPU has an invalid calibration GPU gamma ramp installed. Or something else.

I agree with the above in principle, and definitely with the part about the main culprit being the GPU, but then why would "don't send HDR metadata to the display" in MadVR prevent the GPU from doing what it's doing that confuses the display? Supposedly, this MadVR option only prevents the metadata from being sent. It shouldn't have any impact on whatever the GPU is doing under the hood if it's indeed sending YCC 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 while still reporting RGB. So I don't think that's what's at play here.
Well, I named the option "send HDR metadata to the display", but it might not be a totally accurate description. The option does multiple things, and how these things are named depends on the API set I'm using (Microsoft vs Nvidia vs AMD). E.g. with Nvidia I'm calling an "HdrColorControl" API to set the "HDR mode". Ideally, doing all this should only result in the "PQ" flag being sent to the display together with the SMPTE 2086 metadata. But it's a black box. The Nvidia driver may decide to change something else, too, when I call that API, like changing the color format from RGB to YCbCr or things like that. The API is not called "SetMetadata", but more something like "SetHdrMode".

576 TO 1080P D3D11
720P TO 1080P D3D11
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1819046#post1819046
only on the 1080p disables the D3D11 and I always have D3D9
As I said before, you need to make sure that DSPlayer is not overwriting the madVR settings.

my JVC projector goes magenta too when I play HDR videos. 24 hz and 60 hz. The same thing happens with the Roku at 60z/hdr but it's working at 24hz/hdr. SDR/60hz is fine.
Weird.

Madshi, latest update fixes the performance problem I mentioned with 10 bit files on my laptop. Thanks!
:)

D3D11 copy/back: I have tested several times, and have only had problems a couple of times:
1. The video get stuck and does not let the player close.
The freeze report: https://mega.nz/#!JtcgEA7J!ntXOHvkchCfsUA4B1ZgDaqR-zwDZGiXGSYYx6b9qbpY
Can't see anything wrong in that freeze report, unfortunately.

D3D11 Native: I have problems mush more often (almost every tries) in the middle of playback, and almost every time I close the OSD (which sometimes freeze the entire PC, but still not tested with MadVR 0.92.4)
Ok, seems you may have to disable D3D11 decoding for now. I'll change some things about D3D11 in a future version, maybe that will solve those issues for you.

Does that mean now I can go out to buy any AMD RX4xx/5xx card to enjoy HDR without any worry ?
Probably. Polaris is rather slow with madVR's NGU algorithm, though. So if you plan to use NGU, at this point I'd rather recommend an Nvidia GPU.

I noticed the same thing during the weekend with my old pc (current apps). I managed to sort it out by setting negative % for the "bottom" value in mpc-hc.
Note that there are 2 places in mpc-hc where you can set sub position.
Huh? Does the subtitle position option in MPC-HC affect how LAV Video Decoder does DVD subtitles?? That would surprise me!

Other question: can madvr output mvc 3d to 2 output like stereopistic player can?
My friend has a dual projector setup.
You mean sending the left eye to one screen and the right eye to another screen? No, that's currently not supported.

[Fabulist]

The GPU will always assume full range input so if you have both madVR and the GPU set to limited then the GPU will compress it again so you get something like 30-222 for the dynamic range. Your TV should never expect 30-222. :p

The limited and full range options do not change the data format, 0-255 (8-bit) is always sent, the only difference is if the range is compressed or not.

If you need the double compression your TV is using bad settings or has terrible black crush. Try out the levels test patterns AVS-HD 709 (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/#/topics/948496), they help with understanding what your TV is doing.

How can this be the case when the image is nearly identical with the blu-ray's when I set "Limited" from NVIDIA's CP, "Limited" from madVR, and have "Limited" on the TV. The blu-ray cannot be double compressing.

The only test patterns I understood how to use and tested on are for checking the dynamic range here: https://referencehometheater.com/2014/commentary/rgb-full-vs-limited/ and here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1248012

Are you talking I should find something different in AVS the Forum? Sorry, but I really do not know what to do, I know very little about calibrating.

Yes, you do have the option to try it. You simply start madLevelsTweaker.exe, and then move the window to the monitor which displays on your TV. That way madLevelsTweaker will modify the settings for your TV, not your PC monitor.

Thank you I did not know that, it also seems that when I apply full to one monitor the tool appears ticked on both when moved to the other monitor. However, the tool made no difference.

Yes, it does.

How it does? Am I not understanding your FAQ correctly?

[madshi]

Thank you I did not know that, it also seems that when I apply full to one monitor the tool appears ticked on both when moved to the other monitor. However, the tool made no difference.
How is your multi monitor setup configured? Are you using Clone or Extend or something else? In my setup I'm using Extend, which means that my computer monitor and my TV are two completely separate "monitors" to the OS. Does the madLevelsTweaker text change at all when you move it from one monitor to the other?

How it does? Am I not understanding your FAQ correctly?
The FAQ explains what happens in the background, and which effect setting the GPU control panel and madVR to 16-235 or 0-255 has exactly. As such it always applies, to any PC/situation.

I'm not sure why you're getting incorrect black levels with a proper setup. There must be something wrong somewhere, but it's hard for me to analyze from a distance.

Are you using a dedicated PCIe GPU? Or are we talking Laptop? Can you make screenshots of your Nvidia control panel (all pages related to TV and color setup) and upload them somewhere for us to look at? Please don't post the images in full in this thread, just post links to the images here.

[Manni]

Well, I named the option "send HDR metadata to the display", but it might not be a totally accurate description. The option does multiple things, and how these things are named depends on the API set I'm using (Microsoft vs Nvidia vs AMD). E.g. with Nvidia I'm calling an "HdrColorControl" API to set the "HDR mode". Ideally, doing all this should only result in the "PQ" flag being sent to the display together with the SMPTE 2086 metadata. But it's a black box. The Nvidia driver may decide to change something else, too, when I call that API, like changing the color format from RGB to YCbCr or things like that. The API is not called "SetMetadata", but more something like "SetHdrMode".


Thanks for taking the time to explain, I understand now. So maybe it has to do with the PQ flag, as the metadata itself seems to be filtered by the Vertex (for example, when I set "disable HDR" to on in the Vertex, the display doesn't switch automatically to its own HDR implementation and I can select mine manually). But maybe if the PQ flag is still set that's enough to trip the weird magenta mode.

Not to say that the GPU isn't doing anything else, but enabling the "send HDR metadata" in MadVR produces the same effect as switching the HDR on in the OS display property, so it would be good to see if something else can be done, for example looking at that PQ flag.

I'll investigate and will let you know what we find.

[imhh11]

Thanks, what do you call "Windows HDR update"? Is that the Spring Creators Update? What is your OS build, GPU and driver version please?

before there was an ''HDR slider'' in windows display setting.

I'm on Windows creator update (not insider), gtx1070 and gtx1060, driver 385.69

[David]

I'm not sure why you're getting incorrect black levels with a proper setup. There must be something wrong somewhere, but it's hard for me to analyze from a distance.

http://thepowerpointblog.com/media/blogs/all/12_Oct/Nvidia_full.jpg?mtime=1349183522

Is there any configuration in madvr where that setting touch the video range? Something like hardware upscaling

If that setting is working then video range will be PC Levels and with gpu output to limited and display expecting limited ... range levels would be correct even if madvr is sending limited.

[chros]

Huh? Does the subtitle position option in MPC-HC affect how LAV Video Decoder does DVD subtitles?? That would surprise me!
Errr... I have been talking about srt subs (embedded or external) not subpictures. Haven't you? :)

You mean sending the left eye to one screen and the right eye to another screen? No, that's currently not supported.
No worries :)

[noee]

Probably. Polaris is rather slow with madVR's NGU algorithm, though. So if you plan to use NGU, at this point I'd rather recommend an Nvidia GPU.

I'm currently testing an RX560 4G (MSI)* using quad NGU(High) for luma, NGU Med for chroma and SSIM100 LL downscaling, material is DVD to 1080P and it appears there is even more headroom. Very High NGU is a slide show, however. Would this be considered a hard load on the GPU? NGU seems to be very efficient.

Haven't tried scaling with DVD to 4K yet with this card.

*Win7, latest Crimson stuff, JRiver MC x64

[Fabulist]

How is your multi monitor setup configured? Are you using Clone or Extend or something else? In my setup I'm using Extend, which means that my computer monitor and my TV are two completely separate "monitors" to the OS. Does the madLevelsTweaker text change at all when you move it from one monitor to the other?

I am using Extend same as you because I need the monitors to have different refresh rates. The tool instantly has its text changed when moved across monitors, but if I go for Full on one monitor it appears as Full or "Force PC levels (0-255)" ticked on both.

The FAQ explains what happens in the background, and which effect setting the GPU control panel and madVR to 16-235 or 0-255 has exactly. As such it always applies, to any PC/situation.

I'm not sure why you're getting incorrect black levels with a proper setup. There must be something wrong somewhere, but it's hard for me to analyze from a distance.

But if everything works as intended in the NVIDIA CP and madVR then there has to be something with the TV, but the TV has only 1 setting regarding RGB and everything else are viewing modes which more or less alter sharpness, color, brightness and gamma and not much else.

Are you using a dedicated PCIe GPU? Or are we talking Laptop? Can you make screenshots of your Nvidia control panel (all pages related to TV and color setup) and upload them somewhere for us to look at? Please don't post the images in full in this thread, just post links to the images here.

I am using an NVIDIA 1080 Ti and everything works with this graphics card exactly the same as it did with the NVIDIA 760 before it and an NVIDIA Titan even before that. The TV set remained the same.

The links below contain albums with the settings you requested, if you need more or missed something let me know and I will post it ASAP. The ones relating to the TV are in order, so if an option is highlighted in a screenshot the next image is that option's settings, otherwise there is a description on the top left corner.

NVIDIA CP: https://imgur.com/a/VXouP
TV: https://imgur.com/a/DtNcO

[nsnhd]

I'm currently testing an RX560 4G (MSI)* using quad NGU(High) for luma, NGU Med for chroma and SSIM100 LL downscaling, material is DVD to 1080P and it appears there is even more headroom. Very High NGU is a slide show, however. Would this be considered a hard load on the GPU? NGU seems to be very efficient.

Haven't tried scaling with DVD to 4K yet with this card.

*Win7, latest Crimson stuff, JRiver MC x64

I'm interested in the RX560 too, but mostly for 4K HDR. Are you going to test it ?
Btw, which NGU have you tested, NGU AA, NGU Standard or NGU Sharp ?

[SamuriHL]

Sounds good to me. See FAQ in the 2nd post of this thread.


Finally am home and was able to do some more testing of my equipment. So for me, my Panasonic plasma certainly "allows" limited and full, even on 3D playback. However, for 3D, it *MUST* receive limited in order for playback to be correct. If I use full, and I tested this on my xbox one just to be sure it wasn't something screwy with my HTPC, it will "ghost" the background. At least I can rule out the HTPC as being the problem. As I said, limited->full->limited works fine for me and your explanation of what's happening in the FAQ with those settings works for me. I may experiment with setting the TV to auto and using a profile to set madvr to full for all non-3D content and limited for 3D and see if that works.

[yukinok25]

I've tried to read few pages back but maybe I missed something, it seems like my LAV Video cannot see my GPU under "active hardware accelerator" no matter if I use native or copy-back, the result is always "none", I used to see it just a while ago before update madVR to 0.92.3, is it something related to madVR by the way?

I updated today to 0.92.4, but I didn't pay attention if this happened also with the 0.92.3, sorry If I am asking something wrong, here's a couple of screenshot:

https://imgur.com/a/AVpfD

[mrmojo666]

I'm interested in the RX560 too, but mostly for 4K HDR. Are you going to test it ?
Btw, which NGU have you tested, NGU AA, NGU Standard or NGU Sharp ?

I have a RX460 and there is no way to get ngu standard with 4k tv.

[huhn]

I've tried to read few pages back but maybe I missed something, it seems like my LAV Video cannot see my GPU under "active hardware accelerator" no matter if I use native or copy-back, the result is always "none", I used to see it just a while ago before update madVR to 0.92.3, is it something related to madVR by the way?

I updated today to 0.92.4, but I didn't pay attention if this happened also with the 0.92.3, sorry If I am asking something wrong, here's a couple of screenshot:

https://imgur.com/a/AVpfD

when using D3D11 you will always get hardware decoding if it is a supported format madVR has nothing todo with it.

so the file is maybe incompatible

[madshi]

Is there any configuration in madvr where that setting touch the video range? Something like hardware upscaling

If that setting is working then video range will be PC Levels and with gpu output to limited and display expecting limited ... range levels would be correct even if madvr is sending limited.
I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what you're saying. Can you clarify/explain?

Errr... I have been talking about srt subs (embedded or external) not subpictures. Haven't you? :)
No, definitely not. This is why I don't like if people comment in this thread with "I have the same problem" or with "I noticed the same thing", because it's rarely really the same thing. The original user reported problems with DVD *menus*, not with external srt subs. So when you wrote you noticed the same thing, obviously I expected you were talking about DVD menus.

Finally am home and was able to do some more testing of my equipment. So for me, my Panasonic plasma certainly "allows" limited and full, even on 3D playback. However, for 3D, it *MUST* receive limited in order for playback to be correct. If I use full, and I tested this on my xbox one just to be sure it wasn't something screwy with my HTPC, it will "ghost" the background. At least I can rule out the HTPC as being the problem. As I said, limited->full->limited works fine for me and your explanation of what's happening in the FAQ with those settings works for me. I may experiment with setting the TV to auto and using a profile to set madvr to full for all non-3D content and limited for 3D and see if that works.
Interesting to hear. So your plasma is at fault here! But it's good to find these things out, so you can optimize the settings accordingly.

I've tried to read few pages back but maybe I missed something, it seems like my LAV Video cannot see my GPU under "active hardware accelerator" no matter if I use native or copy-back, the result is always "none", I used to see it just a while ago before update madVR to 0.92.3, is it something related to madVR by the way?

I updated today to 0.92.4, but I didn't pay attention if this happened also with the 0.92.3, sorry If I am asking something wrong, here's a couple of screenshot:

https://imgur.com/a/AVpfD
For LAV related questions, please ask in the LAV thread. This doesn't seem to be madVR specific.

The links below contain albums with the settings you requested, if you need more or missed something let me know and I will post it ASAP. The ones relating to the TV are in order, so if an option is highlighted in a screenshot the next image is that option's settings, otherwise there is a description on the top left corner.

NVIDIA CP: https://imgur.com/a/VXouP
TV: https://imgur.com/a/DtNcO
The Nvidia settings look alright to me. One thing to double check, though: For "Content type reported to the display" you have selected "Movies". Have you tried other settings there? This setting *could* have an effect, depending on whether your TV reacts to this or not.

Looking at your TV settings screenshots, the most important setting is probably "HDMI RGB Range", which you currently have set to "AUTO". Have you tried different settings there?

The "HDMI Content Type" settings in your TV also look like they could be related. Does changing that stuff do anything to your black and white levels?

[noee]

I'm interested in the RX560 too, but mostly for 4K HDR. Are you going to test it ?
Btw, which NGU have you tested, NGU AA, NGU Standard or NGU Sharp ?

I've tested *all* variants of NGU doubling/quad-ing and very high is where it hits the wall -- hard. Again, with DVD 4x-ed/downscaled to 1080p.

I don't have a 4K/HDR screen currently and I have to give this machine up in a couple of days and the next build I do will most likely be with a Vega variant of some sort....I hope to have a 4K/HDR option available at that point (hopefully in a month or so).

[SamuriHL]

Interesting to hear. So your plasma is at fault here! But it's good to find these things out, so you can optimize the settings accordingly.


I was quite surprised by the result I got. However, the xbox one at RGB FULL showed the exact same problem that I got when I set madvr and gpu to full. Quite depressing as I don't see this issue with 2D playback, hence why I think I want to try a profile and set it to limited only for 3D. Very strange but at least now I know what's going on with it.

[yukinok25]

when using D3D11 you will always get hardware decoding if it is a supported format madVR has nothing todo with it.

so the file is maybe incompatible

For LAV related questions, please ask in the LAV thread. This doesn't seem to be madVR specific.

I thought so too madshi, just wanted to make sure with someone here first, thanks guys!



Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

[Manni]

Well, I named the option "send HDR metadata to the display", but it might not be a totally accurate description. The option does multiple things, and how these things are named depends on the API set I'm using (Microsoft vs Nvidia vs AMD). E.g. with Nvidia I'm calling an "HdrColorControl" API to set the "HDR mode". Ideally, doing all this should only result in the "PQ" flag being sent to the display together with the SMPTE 2086 metadata. But it's a black box. The Nvidia driver may decide to change something else, too, when I call that API, like changing the color format from RGB to YCbCr or things like that. The API is not called "SetMetadata", but more something like "SetHdrMode".


As promised, I've done more tests and here is the temporary result:

1) I wanted to find a way to rule out the HDR metadata, so I used the Vertex to capture the full metadata sent by the GPU when the OS is set to enable HDR (here it is FYI, with the header: 87:01:1a:b0:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80:3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01). I then set the OS back to HDR off.

2) I placed an Integral between the AVR and the Vertex and I used the Integral to inject the exact same HDR infoframe (the OS was still set to SDR). I was able to switch the display to HDR without any magenta issue in 4K60p RGB 8bits.

So as expected, this is NOT a metadata issue or a bandwidth. It's something else done by the GPU.

I discussed this with HD Fury and they have identified the issue as being caused by the AVI Infoframe. They are working on it.

I'll keep you posted when I have some news, but I thought this interim report might be useful, in case it helps you to figure out what the nVidia API is doing wrong when you call it.

This is purely intended to provide you some feedback, I've followed your suggestion and am using profiles to disable metadata when fps is above 30, so from a user point of view I'm sorted for now.

[madshi]

I discussed this with HD Fury and they have identified the issue as being caused by the AVI Infoframe. They are working on it.
Oh, so they can reproduce it?? Do they have a JVC to test with? Or does it also occur with other displays? That's very interesting!

[Manni]

Oh, so they can reproduce it?? Do they have a JVC to test with? Or does it also occur with other displays? That's very interesting!

I don't have any details yet, I'll let you know when I do, but I don't think they have a JVC.

[mrmarioman]

I'm struggling to have a good idea of what the problem could be. If toggling the "send HDR metadata" switch results in a visible change in "passthrough HDR content to the display" mode, then obviously madVR is able to successfully switch your TV into HDR mode. In "passthrough" mode madVR simply outputs all pixels more or less untouched, so there's not so much that could go wrong on madVR's side.

I figure it out. Nothing to do with madvr. Sorry. I had to change a few settings from my Samsung TV. It has an option for 'Colour space', and it was set to 'auto'. I changed it to 'Native' and voila, colours now look right. Funny enough if I go back to 'auto' they also look good now.
I also had to change the 'hdmi black level' setting -which is an option for 16-235 or 0-255- from full to limited. Or else I would get washed out blacks. Now it looks great. :) Thanks for your time.

[steakhutzeee]

I use a 1920*1080 full hd monitor, and mpc-be. Zoom settings in madvr are configured to move subs to the bottom.

I tried with ISR, VSFilter and XySubFilter but subs are not showed in the black bars, but on top of video. How can i solve?

As i can see (using xysubfilter), the subs are on top of video for a portion of time, then go in black bars, then returns on the video area... don't know why...

[Fabulist]

The Nvidia settings look alright to me. One thing to double check, though: For "Content type reported to the display" you have selected "Movies". Have you tried other settings there? This setting *could* have an effect, depending on whether your TV reacts to this or not.

Looking at your TV settings screenshots, the most important setting is probably "HDMI RGB Range", which you currently have set to "AUTO". Have you tried different settings there?

The "HDMI Content Type" settings in your TV also look like they could be related. Does changing that stuff do anything to your black and white levels?

Content type reported to the display does nothing when I change it because HDMI Content Type is disabled on the TV. Therefore, the TV ignores such signals from the PC. I do not really need it since I can force the best HDMI Content Type for movies from the TV instead of waiting for NVIDIA's CP signal. Now, changing the HDMI Content Type to anything but "Graphics" and "Photos" gives an unnatural image. Graphics and Photo modes have a less dynamic image, showing less vibrant and not so rich colours (as if the gamut range is crippled) and although the TV's main menu settings seem unchanged, brightness and gamma seems lower as well. Cinema is a weird mode that is disabled from factory defaults (so it won't activate on its own) and can be forced on, but it seems a bit washed out and dark, brightness and gamma are too low and it forces warm colours, looks similar to the so called "THX Cinema" mode, which is complete crap. Game is a mode I cannot force on but it should be able to activate automatically - I do not know under which circumstances it activates and what it does but I am pretty sure it will not do any good for movies with madVR. Lastly, NVIDIA's CP "Auto" Content type will always sent a "Graphics" signal when madVR is playing and the TV will treat it as such if I have everything turned on. If I force the content type from NVIDIA's CP to "Movies" the TV will treat it as "Off" (no mode) by default unless I have Cinema mode on, which is not a factory setting.

The HDMI RGB Range has 3 settings: Auto, Full, Normal. For some reason the TV means "Full" = 16-235 and "Normal" = 0-255. This is an inconsistency which I never really noticed since I always used "Auto", until recently that I started fiddling with NVIDIA's CP output and madVR's settings. The TV's "Normal" (0-255) will force a 3rd black crushing level when activated which is slightly more unnatural than the black crushing NVIDIA's CP / madVR does when set to their equivalent "0-255" - as if there is a loss in quality. Auto seems to almost always use "Full" (16-235) or Limited for everything else, and this is what it defaults to when receiving signal directly from the blu-ray disc or any signal in general, in all my tests it never switched to its 0-255 levels. This mode does nothing when YCbCr signal is sent.

[leandronb]

Hi guys. I noticed that in recent madvr versions image upscaling and doubling are now on the same page, most guides i checked was on older versions, so i am wondering which option should i choose.
I have a GTX 1070 and was using dxva2 on most options, very low render time but i read that i was losing some image quality. So which settings are considered the best to use on a good gpu?
Also if i have a good gpu, is there a reason to not use dxva2 on image downscaling? Isn't downscaling only used when the window is not on fullscreen?
Edit: I use a 1080p display.
I also notice how little resources dxva2 uses. I put every possible setting on dxva2 and only chroma upscaling on nnedi 128 neurons gives me 0,3ms render time, gpu is almost at idle.
I already tried some settings but it seems that it doesn't make much difference.
I tried one that uses NGU and other settings enabled that put my 1070 to really work hard but not really sure if I saw any difference.
I tried with 720p and 1080p sources, all with high bitrates.

[el Filou]

Now, changing the HDMI Content Type to anything but "Graphics" and "Photos" gives an unnatural image.If you want a neutral image (i.e. no sharpening), set "HDMI Content type" to "Off", and then "Sharpness" to 0.
If you want more 'pop' I think it'd better to sharpen with madVR (because it can be adapted to the content being played using profiles) rather than with the TV's Content/Sharpness settings.

it forces warm colours, looks similar to the so called "THX Cinema" mode, which is complete crap.Whaaat? :eek:
(sorry but that's rare to see a Panasonic plasma owner say the THX mode looks like complete crap, it's the most accurate factory mode! :scared:)

The HDMI RGB Range has 3 settings: Auto, Full, Normal. For some reason the TV means "Full" = 16-235 and "Normal" = 0-255.No, Full always means PC which is 0-255 and Normal means Video which is 16-235. If it's the other way around there's a bug somewhere. Did you try to update your TV's firmware?

I think I know what's wrong here: as can be seen on the first screenshot of your TV settings, it's on Dynamic mode. That mode uses non-defeatable dynamic contrast which means you can never have any consistency in brightness levels as the TV will always try to artificially boost contrast by crushing blacks and/or clipping whites. So if you want consistent levels you need to use another mode than Dynamic, sorry. If you absolutely want Dynamic then you can forget about any accurate brightness levels setup.
Your best chance is to manually copy all the settings values from Dynamic mode to the Custom one. This should give you a picture closest to it but without the dynamic contrast that messes up the brightness levels.

[Fabulist]

If you want a neutral image (i.e. no sharpening), set "HDMI Content type" to "Off", and then "Sharpness" to 0.
If you want more 'pop' I think it'd better to sharpen with madVR (because it can be adapted to the content being played using profiles) rather than with the TV's Content/Sharpness settings.

I always kept sharpness to 50 (default) because I always assumed that 50 is 0 for Panasonics, in a sense that anything below 50 will make the screen unnaturally smoother, like for example DOOM's (2016) sharpness slider has 0 at 1/4 or some TVs that have for example 30 as 0 and anything below it increases smoothness. Are you sure 0 is recommended for Panasonics? I know there is a general sense that it should always be 0 but that is not the case for all TVs and systems since some have their "0" at a higher number other than 0.

Whaaat? :eek:
(sorry but that's rare to see a Panasonic plasma owner say the THX mode looks like complete crap, it's the most accurate factory mode! :scared:)
Haha sorry but for me it is and pretty much everyone I tested various modes with agree that this one looks the worst. I highly doubt this mode is accurate, everything looks yellowish, worn out, and muddy. Sames goes for THX Cinema Bright Room. Maybe it's the model, but it has always been like this.

No, Full always means PC which is 0-255 and Normal means Video which is 16-235. If it's the other way around there's a bug somewhere. Did you try to update your TV's firmware?

Yes absolutely the TV's firmware is updated, but the RGB settings are the other way around - I thought it was normal considering another model I configured in the past had "Normal" and "Limited", Normal meaning Full and Limited meaning Limited. I thought that my TV has its own kink like that one.

I think I know what's wrong here: as can be seen on the first screenshot of your TV settings, it's on Dynamic mode. That mode uses non-defeatable dynamic contrast which means you can never have any consistency in brightness levels as the TV will always try to artificially boost contrast by crushing blacks and/or clipping whites. Normal mode uses it too (although a bit less agressively), so if you want consistent levels you need to use another mode than Dynamic or Normal, sorry. If you absolutely want Dynamic or Normal then you can forget about any accurate brightness levels setup.
Your best chance is to manually copy all the settings values from Dynamic mode to the Custom one. This should give you a picture closest to it but without the dynamic contrast that messes up the brightness levels.

I already tried all possible modes, it was the first thing I tried. You are right, Dynamic mode enhances the problem but there is a stark difference between having Limited and Full and crushed Full levels on the TV. If I use a blu-ray system to play a disc there are no such issues, Limited appears as it should. I have issues only with the PC.

[SamuriHL]

Whaaat? :eek:
(sorry but that's rare to see a Panasonic plasma owner say the THX mode looks like complete crap, it's the most accurate factory mode! :scared:)


I would tend to agree. My custom settings aren't TOO far off the THX settings for my Panny plasma. It's definitely all subjective but I would venture something's not configured right somewhere if it's that far off.

[ryrynz]

I always kept sharpness to 50 (default) because I always assumed that 50 is 0 for Panasonics, in a sense that anything below 50 will make the screen unnaturally smoother..


No TV makes things "unnaturally smoother" so set it to 0. The sharpening madVR does is better than just about anything else on the market. Only use the built in sharpening for broadcast content.

Annd I'm wrong.

[Asmodian]

Haha sorry but for me it is and pretty much everyone I tested various modes with agree that this one looks the worst. I highly doubt this mode is accurate, everything looks yellowish, worn out, and muddy. Sames goes for THX Cinema Bright Room. Maybe it's the model, but it has always been like this.


No, that is completely normal. The other modes are "looks good at first glance on a show floor" but the THX modes are the most accurate. Use one for a day and the yellowish muddy look goes away (human perception of white point is adaptive) and you get the video similar to how it looked on the mastering monitor.

It is fine if you want to keep using the other modes but do understand that they are much more inaccurate and have very blue white points (>8000K) when the standard is 6500K. This is why it looks yellowish to you, your perception of white adapts to blue=white so white=yellow to you until your perception of white adapts again.

[70MM]

The sharpening madVR does is better than just about anything else on the market.

Its interesting talking about sharpening...
Ive always used a little sharpening as I find I need some with BDs and DVDs upscaled to 4K on a 145" dia, scope screen.
Enhance detail is what Ive been using for sometime.
However Ive been recently experimenting with adaptive sharpening after reading the definitions, as I wasnt too happy when I saw that enhance detail also sharpens artefacts.
A very tiny amount of Adaptive sharpening with NGU AA Very High, looks spectacular on my large screen with the JVC X9500.

Below are the definitions:
Enhance detail: [1.0] Sharpens textures like skin or cloth, also sharpens artifacts.
AdaptiveSharpen: [0.5] Tries to sharpen medium sharp edges the most, it avoids sharpening near flat areas and very sharp edges

Do any others use Adaptive Sharpen, or what are your thoughts?

[nsnhd]

I'm using Luma Sharpen on 1080p screen, I tried Enhance detail but dont like it because it sharpens skin.

[ryrynz]

I wasnt too happy when I saw that enhance detail also sharpens artefacts.

Do any others use Adaptive Sharpen, or what are your thoughts?

Well you have to have visible artifacts to begin with, sometimes light values on one or two sharpeners is a useful and broad enough stroke to be beneficial to most content, evaluate it based on what you see not what the descriptions tell you.

I'm a big fan of Adaptive Sharpen, use 0.5-1.0 on pretty much everything.

[huhn]

No TV makes things "unnaturally smoother" so set it to 0. The sharpening madVR does is better than just about anything else on the market. Only use the built in sharpening for broadcast content.

well bad news on sony screens 50% is usually neutral and yes if you go lower it will unsharp.

[mrmojo666]

Is HLG support in the backlog ? Thank you

[Fabulist]

No, that is completely normal. The other modes are "looks good at first glance on a show floor" but the THX modes are the most accurate. Use one for a day and the yellowish muddy look goes away (human perception of white point is adaptive) and you get the video similar to how it looked on the mastering monitor.

It is fine if you want to keep using the other modes but do understand that they are much more inaccurate and have very blue white points (>8000K) when the standard is 6500K. This is why it looks yellowish to you, your perception of white adapts to blue=white so white=yellow to you until your perception of white adapts again.

But I do not use the "Cool" mode or >8000K settings despite what you see in the photos which are settings I have temporarily set for testing purposes - which I suppose is why you made this assumption. I just do not use THX modes, they really look ridiculous in comparison to other TVs, monitors, and a movie theatre itself. They default to Warm colours, which are by definition yellowish in this case. I never 'got used' to them like in my PC monitor for example where I tested its "Cool" mode for a couple of weeks and switched back to the calibrated RGB values (close to Warm). This took some getting used to but for a couple of hours.

On the TV they always look yellowish to me (and pretty much everyone else), and you never get used to it - maybe it is the model, but THX modes definitely do not look right under any circumstance, it seems as if RGB and whites are not properly calibrated, using "Normal" mode with less brightness and "Warm" colours looks very similar to THX modes, this does not seem right to me, even the colours look washed out in certain situations in comparison to plain old "Normal" mode.

When we first bought the 2x 4k Samsungs we cross-referenced with the plasma and another 1080p LG for comparison. They lacked the THX modes (or we did not find them) and they looked absolutely fine on their Normal or Movie/Cinema modes. If I remember correctly, one of the Samsung's also defaults to "Warm" on its Cinema mode, but it is a calibrated Warm, not the same as switching to Warm on Normal mode which is what the THX mode looks like on the plasma. Now, I know the dynamic mode with "Normal" colour settings is far from correct, but its image is closer to the other TVs and the movies look closer to what we saw in the cinema - something far from true when we run Panasonic's THX modes.