madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

that's the file name thing: levels: levels=PC|TV|fullrange|limited|doubleExp|tripleExp *range= is synonymous

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787

[ashlar42]

This guide is terrible honestly. The worst guide ive seen in a while. Ive spend a lot of time and still couldn't make it work.I don't want to pick a fight or anything but still... you say it's terrible and yet you haven't posted asking for help. I (and hannes69) have invested a lot of time to write it, hoping for it to be clear enough. If it isn't I've openly stated that I'm all for changing it for the better (and I have done so upon suggestions received).

Hannes69 has worked on a program that will simplify some of the calculations needed and streamlines the process. We are currently testing.

But really, if anyone finds the guide too complicated or is in need of help, please post there. I will gladly help to the best of my ability.

Thank you.

Edit: also, for ryrynz, the fact that you have a working starting point doesn't mean you'll have perfect playback. Check the stats in madVR. The point of the guide was not to have an "okay" setting, the point of the guide is having a perfect setting. One that moves the drops/repeats outside the normal usage range (once you reach... 5 or 6 hours, chances are you'll never experience one, considering the material we watch usually).

[CarlosCaco]

I don't want to pick a fight or anything but still... you say it's terrible and yet you haven't posted asking for help. I (and hannes69) have invested a lot of time to write it, hoping for it to be clear enough. If it isn't I've openly stated that I'm all for changing it for the better (and I have done so upon suggestions received).

Hannes69 has worked on a program that will simplify some of the calculations needed and streamlines the process. We are currently testing.

But really, if anyone finds the guide too complicated or is in need of help, please post there. I will gladly help to the best of my ability.

Thank you.

Edit: also, for ryrynz, the fact that you have a working starting point doesn't mean you'll have perfect playback. Check the stats in madVR. The point of the guide was not to have an "okay" setting, the point of the guide is having a perfect setting. One that moves the drops/repeats outside the normal usage range (once you reach... 5 or 6 hours, chances are you'll never experience one, considering the material we watch usually).

For me it's only guide that have real important content... i really like it and I glad you for the hard work...
if people be persistent certanly the guide will bring good results

[Asmodian]

Is there a way to tell madvr to use double expanded range for a specific file every time? I've heard you can add something into the filename, but what about a header in the mkv or a tag?

You can add it to the directory name too, if you don't want to have to edit a lot of file names.

No header or tag for mkv, it would be an odd custom one and double expanded isn't something that should be part of normal video spec, imo.

[JarrettH]

Thanks ShiftyFella and Asmodian :D

[AngelGraves13]

You can add it to the directory name too, if you don't want to have to edit a lot of file names.

No header or tag for mkv, it would be an odd custom one and double expanded isn't something that should be part of normal video spec, imo.

Yes I know but Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake has incorrect mastering of black levels.

[Stereodude]

Is it possible to add profiles for 3dluts? Or maybe a keyboard shortcut to switch them? My plasma calibrates completely differently at different refresh rates so this would be very useful.
It already can be done. I have a different 3DLUT for 24Hz when my Plasma uses a 96Hz refresh than I do when it's refreshing at 60Hz. You can create a profile rule based on refresh rate and change between them automatically.

[Uoppi]

You can add it to the directory name too, if you don't want to have to edit a lot of file names.

I don't know but it seems I am the only person on the planet who never got this to work, for whatever reason (in Kodi + DSPlayer).

The tag for double expansion is doing absolutely nothing at all (I posted about it here a few months back) but fortunately the black and white level tags DO work, so that I am able to achieve a similar result. So all is well but it is an odd thing for sure.

[robl45]

Weird problem tonight maybe due to win10 update. Half the time I would play movie it would show queue for render and present at 1-2 instead of 11-12 or whatever. It was also randomly picking 24 Hz or 23.976 when it always picked 23.976 before and my queues were always near full. Anyone else have this or have any ideas?

[ryrynz]

Anyone else have this or have any ideas?

First thing I'd do is reinstall the graphics driver.

[Kotik]

I don't want to pick a fight or anything but still... you say it's terrible and yet you haven't posted asking for help. I (and hannes69) have invested a lot of time to write it, hoping for it to be clear enough. If it isn't I've openly stated that I'm all for changing it for the better (and I have done so upon suggestions received).

Hannes69 has worked on a program that will simplify some of the calculations needed and streamlines the process. We are currently testing.

But really, if anyone finds the guide too complicated or is in need of help, please post there. I will gladly help to the best of my ability.

Thank you.



I did follow the guide and i am very happy with the results, i don't find the guide complicated. People tend to confuse the guide with the procedure itself. The guide is fine, people have to understand that the nature of the procedure is complicated, yes.... sometimes in our lives we have to press more than one button to get what we want.

Thanx for the guide and sorry for the off topic.

[Georgel]

Quick discovery that didn't come as obvious at first:

For most videos,

We need to disable

Rendering -> trade quality for performance -> use DXVA chroma upsampling when doing native DXVA decoding.

If we don't disable this, the chroma is not upsampled using madVR algorithms, or at least so it seems.

If anyone has better knowledge, please do expand on this. One thing that I noticed is that if we disable that option, the render times grow significantly.

[nussman]

"Use DXVA chroma upscaling when doing native DXVA decoding"
What do you expect with this option checked?

Of course then DXVA chroma upscaling is used and not madVR algo's ("when doing ..." ).

[Asmodian]

Rendering -> trade quality for performance -> use DXVA chroma upsampling when doing native DXVA decoding.

If we don't disable this, the chroma is not upsampled using madVR algorithms, or at least so it seems.

If anyone has better knowledge, please do expand on this. One thing that I noticed is that if we disable that option, the render times grow significantly.

Native DXVA decoding is not recommended for use with madVR in general (copy-back is preferred). This is why this option is the default even though it silently bypasses madVR's chroma upscaling option.

As you noticed it is faster and the only reason to use DXVA native would be if you were very performance starved, in which case DXVA chroma scaling is probably a good idea.

[neno]

WIN10 X64
RX480 8GDDR5 LASTEST DRIVER
LATEST MADVR/BLUESKYFRC

Hi~
I find that when playing 4K avc video(1080 is OK), my potplayer crashes as soon as I pause the video.
Interestingly, if I choose to use EVR, it is OK.
On the other hand, if I do not use BLUESKYFRC(a frame interpolation tool, see: http://bluesky23.yukishigure.com/en/BlueskyFRC.html), it is also OK.
The issue occurs when using BOTH of them, only in 4K playing. I have tried many settings, the FSE mode may play the 4k avc video to the end and can seek without crash, but as soon as I pause, crash! Other mode and queue size like new/old path D3D9/11 windowed and small/large queue do not make things better, and sometime it crashes in playing.
Other madvr settings is just the deafault, and no smooth video, no active scaling, and refinements.

I would appreciate it if anyone can help in this issue and any ideas for finding the cause is welcome.
THX.

[HillieSan]

WIN10 X64
RX480 8GDDR5 LASTEST DRIVER
LATEST MADVR/BLUESKYFRC

Hi~
I find that when playing 4K avc video(1080 is OK), my potplayer crashes as soon as I pause the video.

Madvr has issues. Some blame the driver, but the issues show that it is madvr that kills the driver, potplayer or MPC-HC in various circumstances. Other filters are working fine.

Upscaling and going to full screen is a serious problem with madvr. Can you upscale 1080p to 4K and play in full screen mode using madVR with NEDDI3 or Super-xbr? I've tried many settings but nothing works. Only moving to another renderer works here.

This seems to be an old problem and many experience this problem. I cannot find a fix on the internet that works for me. Do you experience this problem and is there a solution?

[leeperry]

if I do not use BLUESKYFRC(a frame interpolation tool, see: http://bluesky23.yukishigure.com/en/BlueskyFRC.html), it is also OK.
The issue occurs when using BOTH of them, only in 4K playing.

Oh cool, how does it compare to mVR's FRC? No workee with a HD7850?

I'm curious how it can even technically work as an extra layer after mVR, no hiccuping?

[HillieSan]

WIN10 X64
Interestingly, if I choose to use EVR, it is OK.
On the other hand, if I do not use BLUESKYFRC(a frame interpolation tool, see: http://bluesky23.yukishigure.com/en/BlueskyFRC.html), it is also OK.
The issue occurs when using BOTH of them, only in 4K playing.

I cannot reproduce this problem. I use both without problems. I use the latest Potplayer64.

You have confused me. If you are using EVR and BlueskyFRC then this is not madvr related, is it? Do not run SVP at the same time with BlueskyFRC.

[huhn]

Oh cool, how does it compare to mVR's FRC? No workee with a HD7850?

I'm curious how it can even technically work as an extra layer after mVR, no hiccuping?

it does the "same" as SVP so it can't be compared to madVR FRC.

to give you an idea: https://abload.de/img/remindsmeofsvpkcauz.png

and like SVP is runs before madVR so no real problem.

i would like to do more tests but i did the mistake of buying an AMD card again. delivering an image to the screen is already a huge struggle...

[neno]

I cannot reproduce this problem. I use both without problems. I use the latest Potplayer64.

You have confused me. If you are using EVR and BlueskyFRC then this is not madvr related, is it? Do not run SVP at the same time with BlueskyFRC.

BlueskyFRC almost dose the same as SVP, but using a feature of AMD GPU, not mainly relying on the CPU like SVP.
So I just do not use SVP at all.
To clarify my situation(WIN10x64/RX480 8G/Potplayer) and not confuse anyone, I summary it as below, hoping a solution:

1080Pvideo+madVR+Bluesky=OK
4Kvideo+madVR+Bluesky=CRASH(interestingly, 100% as soon as I pause the play in ANY mode, and plus random crash in modes except FSE)
4K+EVR+Bluesky=OK
4K+madVR=OK

Here, no active image scaling(for it is 4K), no smooth video, nor image refinements in madvr. Various queue size also tried.
When reproducing it, please be sure you have an AMD GCN GPU and turn on fluid motion in Radeon Setting and BlueskyFRC is actually working(get interpolated frames).

In 4K+madVR+Bluesky, I wonder why I can play a video to the end in FSE mode and even seek to any position in the bar, and forward/backward, but can not pause the video(crash). Other modes crashes randomly in playing and also 100% after pause.
Can this suggest something and get some idea or direction or clues? How can a pause 100% leads to crash?

[Sunset1982]

i would like to do more tests but i did the mistake of buying an AMD card again. delivering an image to the screen is already a huge struggle...

What card did you get? rx480? Would be nice if xou could share you experience/problems with me. Feel free to pm me.

[HillieSan]

BlueSkyFRC uses AMD’s fluid motion and it works well on my RX 480. SVP also works, but sometimes it shakes the picture a bit. I don’t use SVP anymore.

In my case:

1080P+madVR+Bluesky = OK in windowed mode, but crashes/freezes when switching to FSE
4K+madVR+Bluesky = OK in windowed mode, but crashes when switching/freezes to FSE
4K+EVR+Bluesky = OK in windowed and FSE mode (I use Haali or the OpenCL filter instead of EVR)
4K+madVR = OK in windowed mode, but crashes/freezes when switching to FSE

Problem occurs with Potplayer and MPC-HC. The Potplayer freezes video (audio continues) and MPC-HC crashes. Sometimes the driver is killed.

SuperRes-xbr and NNEDI3 are better, but useless in FSE. PowerDVD works great but its upscaling to 4K is just EVR quality...not the best.

[ashlar42]

Kind of surprising to see this BlueSkyFRC supporting AMD and Intel but not Nvidia. Is Nvidia support coming or are there reasons why it's not there?

[wolfman2791]

BlueSky is fantastic. With my R9 390, I get the same effect as SVP but with a better picture and no halo effects, which was my big beef with SVP.

Perfect for AMD users who want 60fps.

I've had no problems at all with MPC-HC - Madvd - BlueSky.

[huhn]

if you really like it you should ask the author for advanced settings like frame rate doubling not targeting 60 HZ to avoid the 5/2 interpolation which is throwing away 50 % of the original high quality frames.

blue sky is blending most of the time anyway so running madVR SM after it doesn't hurt.

[huhn]

Kind of surprising to see this BlueSkyFRC supporting AMD and Intel but not Nvidia. Is Nvidia support coming or are there reasons why it's not there?

didn't saw this.

this tool is using the frame interpolation provided from the "driver".

AMD and INTEL have one and nvidia not AFAIK.
so it's kinda like DXVA decoding. kinda...

[CarlosCaco]

didn't saw this.

this tool is using the frame interpolation provided from the "driver".

AMD and INTEL have one and nvidia not AFAIK.
so it's kinda like DXVA decoding. kinda...


Intel have one? Do you know how to use/active? Without bluesky

[huhn]

your playback programs have to support it.

and don't forget it has to run before madVR. so you need an extra DS filter.

this should be it: https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/frame-rate-conversion-frc-in-intel-media-sdk

[CarlosCaco]

your playback programs have to support it.

and don't forget it has to run before madVR. so you need an extra DS filter.

this should be it: https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/frame-rate-conversion-frc-in-intel-media-sdk

Thank you for the explanation... I really don t use interpolation, i have pretty descent modes so don t have a reason to use... tried svp on 60, 72 and 75 but did not like

But these days I thought that if in 48 svp increase video quality I give I try...
what do you think about? Svp on 48 is better than a well tuned 23,976?
In 72 svp discard good frames too?

[huhn]

i think frame interpolation should be burned with fire.

72 hz interpolation shouldn't drop good frames with a 23/24p source.

[neno]

So, can anyone reproduce my issue asked in #39634 and #39639?
Still wonder how can a pause 100% leads to crash? Maybe @madshi knows :)

Yes, 72hz interpolation shouldn't drop good frames, though the interval of the frames after a 1/6 quantity frame-dropping(assuming a 60hz display) may not equal, which can bring minor jitter just like interpolation of 24->60.

[Anvi]

BlueSkyFRC uses AMD’s fluid motion and it works well on my RX 480. SVP also works, but sometimes it shakes the picture a bit. I don’t use SVP anymore.

In my case:

1080P+madVR+Bluesky = OK in windowed mode, but crashes/freezes when switching to FSE
4K+madVR+Bluesky = OK in windowed mode, but crashes when switching/freezes to FSE
4K+EVR+Bluesky = OK in windowed and FSE mode (I use Haali or the OpenCL filter instead of EVR)
4K+madVR = OK in windowed mode, but crashes/freezes when switching to FSE

Problem occurs with Potplayer and MPC-HC. The Potplayer freezes video (audio continues) and MPC-HC crashes. Sometimes the driver is killed.

SuperRes-xbr and NNEDI3 are better, but useless in FSE. PowerDVD works great but its upscaling to 4K is just EVR quality...not the best.

I've noticed that MPC x64 crashes a lot with BlueSkyFRC while 32-bit version works perfectly.

[Shiandow]

Has anyone who fiddled around with mapping HDR to an SDR screen figured out a good setting for 'hue preservation'? I've been doing some tests with Sony's Camp sample, and I can't make figure out a way to make the fire at 1:09 look vaguely realistic. The best I can manage is just to turn hue preservation off, which makes it look like this (http://i.imgur.com/hLHHuGq.jpg).

Now as far as I can tell it should look something like this (http://i.imgur.com/It9KJsk.jpg) instead, which doesn't seem to be possible in MadVR (yet), but maybe I'm missing something.

[AngelGraves13]

Chroma and all forms of scaling with Jinc and SuperRes at 4 looks really clean and sharp. Any different scaler and there are tons of artifacts present.

Jinc + SR 4 seems like the winner.

[Betroz]

Chroma and all forms of scaling with Jinc and SuperRes at 4 looks really clean and sharp. Any different scaler and there are tons of artifacts present.

Jinc + SR 4 seems like the winner.

I use NNEDI3 256 for Chroma Upscaling and NNEDI3 64 for Image Doubling, and that is nice too if you got a fast GPU that can handle it (I have a 1080 card).

[CarlosCaco]

Hey folks in yours opinion using madvr should I benefit more from a GTX 780ti that has a wider memory bus or a GTX 970? I detached a lot but seen the rankings and benchmarks are confuse between the two cards

[huhn]

stay with maxwell. better openCL performence.

[jkauff]

I use NNEDI3 256 for Chroma Upscaling and NNEDI3 64 for Image Doubling, and that is nice too if you got a fast GPU that can handle it (I have a 1080 card).
Just for fun, switch those numbers and see if you like the results.

[Betroz]

Just for fun, switch those numbers and see if you like the results.

Yes and a lot of dropped frames too ;)

[Georgel]

Madvr has issues. Some blame the driver, but the issues show that it is madvr that kills the driver, potplayer or MPC-HC in various circumstances. Other filters are working fine.

Upscaling and going to full screen is a serious problem with madvr. Can you upscale 1080p to 4K and play in full screen mode using madVR with NEDDI3 or Super-xbr? I've tried many settings but nothing works. Only moving to another renderer works here.

This seems to be an old problem and many experience this problem. I cannot find a fix on the internet that works for me. Do you experience this problem and is there a solution?

I peacefully disagree with you.

Latest nvidia drivers are broken in every way possible, they crash the card and do more bad things...

When drivers work, madVR works. Haven't experienced problems with madVR when everything else worked fine, using windows 10 64bit, nvidia GPUs, laptop. Tried multiple configurations and all went well on most configurations.

Even on ati laptops it worked flawlessly.

Just saying, some companies break the drivers and let us walk in the darkness, had to reinstall windows + nvidia drivers 3 times to get those things working. not only madVR was broken, but everything else was...

Well, they seem stable now and everything runs well now on most configurations I've tried, so we can happily use madVR now :D

But I've had my share of mpc-hc has stopped working and mpc-hc critical errors, can understand where you're coming from...

[Georgel]

I use NNEDI3 256 for Chroma Upscaling and NNEDI3 64 for Image Doubling, and that is nice too if you got a fast GPU that can handle it (I have a 1080 card).

Wish a better algorithm than Jinc would come to image upscaling too (it's great that the algorithm for image doubling is to good), but with image upscaling, the effects are really visible on some situations.

A bit sad here that nvidia DSR doesn't work with madVR, since with most games it creates really nice results... Especially for using image upscaling of a larger factor instead of using only chroma and luma upscaling.

[CarlosCaco]

Wish a better algorithm than Jinc would come to image upscaling too (it's great that the algorithm for image doubling is to good), but with image upscaling, the effects are really visible on some situations.

A bit sad here that nvidia DSR doesn't work with madVR, since with most games it creates really nice results... Especially for using image upscaling of a larger factor instead of using only chroma and luma upscaling.

Image doubling in madvr have superior quality than downsanpling with DSR, try supersampling.... also if you want to use DSR with madvr potplayer have an internal setting to do that (but is really a waste of resources since madvr algorithm much higher quality than DSR)

[ryrynz]

I use NNEDI3 256 for Chroma Upscaling and NNEDI3 64 for Image Doubling, and that is nice too if you got a fast GPU that can handle it (I have a 1080 card).

Switch to 64 neurons for chroma screenshot that and 256 and compare, tell me truthfully that you think it's worth the rendering time.
PS: It's not.

[ryrynz]

Now as far as I can tell it should look something like this (http://i.imgur.com/It9KJsk.jpg) instead, which doesn't seem to be possible in MadVR (yet), but maybe I'm missing something.

Maybe it's not meant to be as realistic as you'd like it to be. For comparison it may be an idea to just fire it up on a good HDR TV and compare.

[Betroz]

Switch to 64 neurons for chroma screenshot that and 256 and compare, tell me truthfully that you think it's worth the rendering time.
PS: It's not.

I have tried super-xbr for Chroma Upscaling in combination with NNEDI3 128 for Image Doubling too (Luma & Chroma Doubling), but overall rendertime was a lot higher. Image Doubling is taxing as you know. So I went down to 64 neurons. Strangely enough, then I could use NNEDI3 256 for Chroma Upscaling.

[huhn]

Image doubling in madvr have superior quality than downsanpling with DSR, try supersampling.... also if you want to use DSR with madvr potplayer have an internal setting to do that (but is really a waste of resources since madvr algorithm much higher quality than DSR)

the biggest problem is that people don't understand the difference between DSR using on a game and DSR using on a video.

a video has a fixed resolution most PC games doesn't have a fixed resolution.

taking this into account it should be very very easy to understand why DSR has a potential positive effect on picture quality and not on video picture quality.

[Asmodian]

I have tried super-xbr for Chroma Upscaling in combination with NNEDI3 128 for Image Doubling too (Luma & Chroma Doubling), but overall rendertime was a lot higher. Image Doubling is taxing as you know. So I went down to 64 neurons. Strangely enough, then I could use NNEDI3 256 for Chroma Upscaling.

Even if you have the performance available 256 neuron chroma upscaling is a waste of electricity/heat. I suggest you never use above 64 neurons for chroma upscaling, even that is overkill but less overkill than 256 neurons, which is just excessive.

Luma/Chroma doubling is harder than chroma upscaling because, assuming 1080p 4:2:0 video, chroma upscaling has to scale 960x540 to 1920x1080 while luma/chroma doubling has to scale 1920x1080 to 3840x2160. Also chroma doubling is twice as hard as luma doubling; chroma is two planes, U and V, while luma is only one, Y. Your results are not strange at all. :)

Use as high as you can for luma doubling but don't go above 32 neurons for chroma doubling and 64 neurons for chroma upscaling.

With a Titan X (Pascal) I have plenty of performance available but using more neurons for chroma really is pointless.

[madshi]

Has anyone who fiddled around with mapping HDR to an SDR screen figured out a good setting for 'hue preservation'? I've been doing some tests with Sony's Camp sample, and I can't make figure out a way to make the fire at 1:09 look vaguely realistic. The best I can manage is just to turn hue preservation off, which makes it look like this (http://i.imgur.com/hLHHuGq.jpg).

Now as far as I can tell it should look something like this (http://i.imgur.com/It9KJsk.jpg) instead, which doesn't seem to be possible in MadVR (yet), but maybe I'm missing something.
We've had discussions about the best way to handle these situations in this thread a while ago. I've also talked to Calman, Florian (displaycal), zoyd and Graeme about this.

The key is the "fix too bright & saturated pixels by" combobox in the madVR settings. Try setting that to "0% luminance reduction", and you'll get something nearer to what you expect. This may produce better looking results for this specific scene, but in other scenes it looks worse because the pixels actually become near white which means they're losing their color information.

You can create HDR conversion 3dluts with the latest dispcal. The 3dluts seem to be slightly better than what madVR does with pixel shaders, but the overall look is pretty similar.

[AngelGraves13]

I use NNEDI3 256 for Chroma Upscaling and NNEDI3 64 for Image Doubling, and that is nice too if you got a fast GPU that can handle it (I have a 1080 card).

I have a 1080 GTX as well (FTW) and Jinc with SR 4 for Chroma and Scaling with Linear Light and Anti-ringing checked looks much better than NNEDI3 256. The image looks real, not digitized. SuperXBR and NNEDI3 have a very digitized and processed look to them.

NNEDI3 is a good scaler for chroma, but it makes colors look overprocessed and in some cases they can cross.

Jinc is the cleanest scaler around and when you super-res it it only gets sharper. Other scalers like NNEDI3 and SuperXBR gets sharper too, but you start to see the artifacts easily.

[Sunset1982]

I have a 1080 GTX as well (FTW) and Jinc with SR 4 for Chroma and Scaling with Linear Light and Anti-ringing checked looks much better than NNEDI3 256. The image looks real, not digitized. SuperXBR and NNEDI3 have a very digitized and processed look to them.

NNEDI3 is a good scaler for chroma, but it makes colors look overprocessed and in some cases they can cross.

Jinc is the cleanest scaler around and when you super-res it it only gets sharper. Other scalers like NNEDI3 and SuperXBR gets sharper too, but you start to see the artifacts easily.


So what would you suggest for upscaling to 4K?

Chroma: NNEDI3
Image: Jinc +LL +AR +SR4

Atm I use:

Chroma: SuperXBR 100, AR, SR1
Image Doubling: SuperXBR AB25
Image: Jinc AR