madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Asmodian]

1) I've got all my HTPC files on a ramdisk and that'll waste an extra 100MB of my 2 gigs
2) There'll be an uncalled for loading time wait each time I'll open a video file

Hey these two at the same time don't make sense, anyway I never notice a loading time even just using a SSD. Give it a try, it is much easier and faster than it was in the first versions. It seems pointless for madshi to implement different gamut mapping options to me, unless something really is wrong with yCMS.

[madshi]

Any more details?
Do you scale using 1 pass in 2D? 2 passes in 1D? 2 passes in 2D?
Does it work well in YCbCr?
Is it any better or worse in linear light?
Linear light scaling doesn't really look good to me, neither with Lanczos nor with Jinc. Scaling with Jinc in YCbCr should work just fine, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work well. madVR is scaling in R'G'B', though.

Jinc has to be done in 1-pass 2D. It doesn't work any other way, because the true distance "Sqrt(xDist*xDist + yDist*yDist)" is used to calculate the weight of the source pixels around the destination pixel. For Jinc3 you basically use a circle of source pixels with a max distance of 3.0 around the destination pixel.

Here are test results with a very artificial test pattern. It shows quite nicely the key difference between Lanczos and Jinc, IMHO. You can see that the whole "look" (including ringing artifacts) is more rectangular with Lanczos and more round with Jinc:

original image (http://madshi.net/MiniOrg.png) -|- Lanczos4 (http://madshi.net/MiniLanczos4.png) -|- Jinc4 (http://madshi.net/MiniJinc4.png) -|- Jinc4 AR (http://madshi.net/MiniJinc4AR.png)

As you can see, there are still some artifacts in the Jinc4 AR algorithm, so it still needs some improvement.

[NicolasRobidoux]

@Eric: What colorspace to use is not fully dependent on the filter. See http://www.imagemagick.org/discourse-server/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21804, which unfortunately does not include Y'CbCr, and uses a variant of tensor Lanczos 3 that I like more.

[pankov]

I could "fix" it, but I don't think I should. After all there's a difference between Ctrl+J and Ctrl+Shift+J, and we want to have the option to use these two key combinations for different things, don't we?
I agree
Thanks for your time.

I have one somewhat personal request:
Can you check this ticket
https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/2671
I opened in the MPC bug tracking system and share your opinion on the subject?
In short it's about a problem with VSFilter which "clears" the deinterlace flags in the video and thus cheating madVR into not deinterlacing a perfectly interlaced 1080i50 video captured with a digital camera. Do you think it's possible for madVR's "detection engine" to ignore the value of dwInterlaceFlags that VSFilter sets and read it from the decoder/filter which is before VSFilter in the graph? After all we know that VSFilter can't do deinterlacing so I think it can't be a reliable source for this flags, right?

[egur]

@Nicolas
Thank a lot.

[madshi]

@pankov, please use xy-vsfilter and if that has the same problem, report it there. The xy-vsfilter developer actually does fix bugs, so you have a pretty good chance to getting it fixed there. Of course it would be possible to work around the problem in madVR, but it would cost me extra time, so I'm reluctant. Soon, madVR + xy-vsfilter will be the best subtitle solution, anyway, and will totally bypass the normal DirectShow connection chain.

[pankov]

madshi,
I was actually using xy-vsfilter and it has the exact same problem. I was advised (by cyberbeing) to report it to the MPC team because the xy-vsfilter developer is alone and doesn't have much experience with such interlaced files.
I guess I'll wait for the real solution (the one that bypasses the DirectShow chain) and use the new keyboard shortcuts that I'm now able to control via Girder (thanks again) till then.
I just wanted your expert opinion on the matter.
Thanks again.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Eric:
Here is an example of EWA LanczosSharp (a.k.a. Jinc 3) used with an alternate method, namely sigmoidization, that reduces halos and that Mathias found does not work well in some circumnstances. (And I'm going to have to double check on this, because it's worrisome. I'm actually not sure at all it would work well with Y'CbCr. And, after Mathias comments, I'm not even sure it always works well with sRGB pngs.)
http://web.cs.laurentian.ca/nrobidoux/misc/madVR/glyphsEWALanczosSharp.7p5.png

[leeperry]

A great GPU would be the 660, if you can swing it.
Quite frankly what I hate with new computer parts is that they lose 50% of their value in 1 year, and 2 years later they can only be sold as paper weights...there's also a large number of ppl who constantly upgrade being desperate to sell their 1yo board for cheap , but the 650Ti seems to provide a much higher bang for bucks ratio -even brand new- so buying used doesn't seem to make much sense.

So anyone's got an advice on a good nvidia board for 720p to 1080p Jinc3 AR chroma+luma upscale please? How about a $150 1GB GTX650Ti? I've got no idea how much crunching power this monster of an algorithm might require for 720p to 1080p....really the +1K SP's of the 660 :confused:

But it's good to see that the 650Ti is a very power efficient GPU and that my 400W Corsair PSU will do nicely: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-650-ti-benchmark-gk106,3318-18.html :)

BTW, I advised Kazuya to try Jinc3 AR upscale and he's hooked! He ditched his ffdshow Spline upscale profile in a split second, figures ;)

I never notice a loading time even just using a SSD. Give it a try, it is much easier and faster than it was in the first versions.
OK, sounds good! I'll be running gamut mapping comparisons then :)

[cyberbeing]

@pankov, please use xy-vsfilter and if that has the same problem, report it there. The xy-vsfilter developer actually does fix bugs, so you have a pretty good chance to getting it fixed there. Of course it would be possible to work around the problem in madVR, but it would cost me extra time, so I'm reluctant.
I was actually using xy-vsfilter and it has the exact same problem. I was advised (by cyberbeing) to report it to the MPC team because the xy-vsfilter developer is alone and doesn't have much experience with such interlaced files.

@madshi

Since this was brought up here, what would you consider the 'correct' way VSFilter should handle interlaced video flags, considering it likely 'weaves' interlaced video to progressive (combing artifacts), alphablends progressive subtitles on top, and then outputs to a video renderer like madVR? Can such video actually be properly deinterlaced after VSFilter has had its way with it? If so, how should it be flagged?

[nevcairiel]

Video is already "weaved" when you get it. DirectShow doesn't really do single interlaced fields, what you get is one image with both fields weaved together. As long as you don't modify the video itself (scaling or conversion to another pixel format unsupported by GPU deinterlacing), you should just output it as-is with the same flags as from the source (dwInterlaceFlags is usually 0x81, AMINTERLACE_IsInterlaced|AMINTERLACE_DisplayModeBobOrWeave, on many video decoders), and of course the per-frame flags should stay as well (they indicate field order, and which frames to deinterlace). In short, just pass-through the dwInterlaceFlags value and the per-frame flags.

[madshi]

So anyone's got an advice on a good nvidia board for 720p to 1080p Jinc3 AR chroma+luma upscale please? How about a $150 1GB GTX650Ti?
I expect the 650Ti will probably be able to do Jinc3 AR for chroma+luma. But what happens if I add more funny algorithms to madVR? The 660 would give you a bit more breathing room for things like de-banding, de-ringing, sharpening, error diffusion, whenever that might come (not too soon, if at all). But then, probably these algorithms will not consume as much power as Jinc3 AR does. But I don't really know that yet. Of course if the 650Ti will run out of steam by then, you could upgrade again. Maybe not even the 660 will be fast enough then? No idea right now...

BTW, I advised Kazuya to try Jinc3 AR upscale and he's hooked! He ditched his ffdshow Spline upscale profile in a split second, figures ;)
Who's Kazuya?

Video is already "weaved" when you get it. DirectShow doesn't really do single interlaced fields, what you get is one image with both fields weaved together. As long as you don't modify the video itself (scaling or conversion to another pixel format unsupported by GPU deinterlacing), you should just output it as-is with the same flags as from the source (dwInterlaceFlags is usually 0x81, AMINTERLACE_IsInterlaced|AMINTERLACE_DisplayModeBobOrWeave, on many video decoders), and of course the per-frame flags should stay as well (they indicate field order, and which frames to deinterlace). In short, just pass-through the dwInterlaceFlags value and the per-frame flags.
Agreed.

[Pat357]

GPU usage should not change much with different video files or scenes.

Except for FPS from videofile, you mean.
The FPS can obviously change the GPU usage a lot.

[madshi]

Yes, of course. FPS makes one hell of a difference. Twice as much FPS means roughly twice as much work for every part of madVR. What I was trying to say is that GPU consumption does not depend on whether you're watching a soft and slow motion landscape or whether you're watching a sharp and high motion action movie.

[cyberbeing]

What I was trying to say is that GPU consumption does not depend on whether you're watching a soft and slow motion landscape or whether you're watching a sharp and high motion action movie.
If you use an 8-bit 3DLUT, NVIDIA GPU usage can potentially spike quite a bit depending on scene motion and color complexity.

On my GT440, certain colorful high motions scene will cause a temporary +5-15% increase in GPU usage (i.e. 25%->30-40%), without any queue drops. The more powerful the GPU, the less change there is. Nothing new, as it's the same problem we discussed extensively in the past mostly related to my 7800GTX and that GTX460 I briefly tested. Still it's noteworthy for users of lower powered NVIDIA GPUs, as I know Fermi and prior generations suffered from this. No idea about Kepler.

[leeperry]

I expect the 650Ti will probably be able to do Jinc3 AR for chroma+luma. But what happens if I add more funny algorithms to madVR? The 660 would give you a bit more breathing room for things like de-banding, de-ringing, sharpening, error diffusion, whenever that might come (not too soon, if at all). But then, probably these algorithms will not consume as much power as Jinc3 AR does. But I don't really know that yet. Of course if the 650Ti will run out of steam by then, you could upgrade again. Maybe not even the 660 will be fast enough then? No idea right now...
Ahhhh, but buying gear based on potential future needs is usually not too wise in the computer world. Jinc3 AR for chroma+luma works fine when going SD>1080p on my 96SP 8800GS, so I would guess that the 768SP 650Ti will be a hell more powerful! And possibly bring enough headroom for additional processing, and by then ATi will lower their prices, nvidia will be forced to follow etc etc....6 months from now, the 660 will be old news and my $250 investment would be merely worth $120 on the used market.

I'm not a fan of debanding or sharpening, but diffusion/floyd-steinberg dithering would indeed kill :devil:

IIRC, each pixel in games like Crysis 2 goes through like a thousand PS scripts, and simple video PS scripts in MPC barely require any GPU cycles.

CUDA optimization would also be most welcome, but I can understand that this would be a waste of your time, considering that ATi provide better bang for bucks if you're willing to live without CUDA & CUVID.

It's about time you cash-in on mVR and hire a bunch of ppl to assist you :D

Who's Kazuya?
A major A/V nutcase who's given the taste of endless HTPC setup nitpicking to many ppl on HCFR (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homecinema-fr.com%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D1196%26t%3D29968248). Apart from the red test pattern you used in the OP(that I cut from the end credits of "Les Bronzés font du ski"), he's the one who provided all the other video test patterns I use. I very much trust his judgment ;)

[madshi]

If you use an 8-bit 3DLUT, NVIDIA GPU usage can potentially spike quite a bit depending on scene motion and color complexity.
Ok, using 3dluts may be an exception to what I said, but it should be the only exception, and not every GPU might show similar behaviour with 3dluts.

Ahhhh, but buying gear based on potential future needs is usually not too wise in the computer world. Jinc3 AR for chroma+luma works fine when going SD>1080p on my 96SP 8800GS, so I would guess that the 768SP 650Ti will be a hell more powerful! And possibly bring enough headroom for additional processing, and by then ATi will lower their prices, nvidia will be forced to follow etc etc....
True. So get a 650Ti then.

[nautilus7]

Hi, since it's the first time I post in madVR thread, I would like to state how worderful this software is and what a great and methodical job madshi has done in developing it! Thanks a lot!

Now, I am trying to calibrate a friend's lcd tv using some test patterns. While playing arround, I decided to create some paterns of my own using photoshop. So, the question is, which color profile should I choose for the images in Photoshop? Forgive my ignorance in such matters, but apart my pc monitor, I haven't calibrate any other digital display. The available ones are below:

http://t.imgbox.com/abtqeulg.jpg (http://imgbox.com/abtqeulg)

Should I choose sRGB, Rec.709 or something else? The calibration will be performed using a laptop (win7 and ati card, if that's important) connected via hdmi. I am keen on testing madVR's image displaying when support (through lav filters) is ready, as well.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Mathias:
The http://madshi.net/housetop.png test image is a pain in the *ss.
Enlarging through Lab, which has always looked slightly better in my tests than using straight sRGB, gives a result that is also more jaggy on the roof line (like the sigmoidized result at contrast=7.5).
I'm reasonably sure that what is going on is that you want something which is "maximally good with dark halo" because the original has significant light halo next to sharp dark features, and in a sense you want to minimize the halo of this light halo. And, among the common options, it's sRGB, not sigmoidizing, not linear RGB, not Lab.
I'm very tempted to chalk it up to "exception", just like the "cabins" image has dark letters which happen to be friendly to ... linear RGB.
If you some time at some point, and you happen to know, please point me to other test images where sigmoidization "fails".
At this point, I suspect that originals with haloing may not always be sigmoidization's friend.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Ah ah! I think I see what's going on:
The original housetop.png has a very pronounced asymmetrical dark straicase on that roof line. It's actually in the original.
Enlarging straight through sRGB happens to "paper over" this oscillation found in the original.
I feel better now.
(Not that sigmoidization is necessary safe from challenge. Far from it. But it's nice to see that actually sigmoidization and Lab are more faithful to a feature found in the original.)
P.S. That is, the "antialiasing" of the roof line is only effective on the "light" end, right in the original.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Now, if I only can figure the best way to deal with Y'CbCr.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Put another way: sRGB thins out light features more than Lab, which thins them out more than sigmoidized light: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/filter/nicolas/#upsampling_examples. Linear RGB makes light features "fat" when using a filter with a significant negative lobe.
The "offending party" in the housetop test image is light halo. So, "thinning out light features" leads to a better result.

[NicolasRobidoux]

Mathias:
You knew that Sandy Bridge has a built-in algorithm which can roughly be described as an AntiRing system? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1551981#post1551981

[6233638]

Hi, since it's the first time I post in madVR thread, I would like to state how worderful this software is and what a great and methodical job madshi has done in developing it! Thanks a lot!

Now, I am trying to calibrate a friend's lcd tv using some test patterns. While playing arround, I decided to create some paterns of my own using photoshop. So, the question is, which color profile should I choose for the images in Photoshop? Forgive my ignorance in such matters, but apart my pc monitor, I haven't calibrate any other digital display. The available ones are below:

http://imgbox.com/abtqeulg

Should I choose sRGB, Rec.709 or something else? The calibration will be performed using a laptop (win7 and ati card, if that's important) connected via hdmi. I am keen on testing madVR's image displaying when support (through lav filters) is ready, as well.I would recommend creating the patterns in sRGB but not saving a color profile with them if you are going to create JPG test patterns.

For calibration though, you might want to use the AVS HD MP4 package: http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

[nautilus7]

Ok, thanks. I 'll check the link and come back with questions.

[mzso]

[...]

Ugh... So, when will OLED-s be available? :)

[6233638]

Ugh... So, when will OLED-s be available? :)Supposedly there will be sets from Samsung and LG by the end of the year, but I am skeptical, as they have shown very little, and they keep getting pushed back.

I don't think OLED panels are going to be as perfect as everyone is expecting either.

Motion handling will be great. (excellent if they implement interpolation and black frame insertion)

Viewing angles will be good and potentially great, depending on the panel design. At best, they will match Plasma. (which is already excellent)

At the very least, I would expect them to have similar power/brightness-limiting functions to Plasma TVs, and potentially crosstalk. (I have seen it on other OLED displays, but nothing that size)

Color gamut is going to be super-saturated out of the box, and I wonder if they will actually implement an adequate CMS for accurate BT.709 color reproduction.

Image retention/burn-in is of course a concern with these displays.

Neither the Samsung nor LG displays that have been announced have standard RGB stripe pixel structures, so they aren't suited to being used as a monitor. (fine for video and probably games)

Both sets are 1080p, and for what they cost, I would want a 4K panel. Neither are using that "zero reflection" glass that has been demoed by a few companies earlier this year. (including Sharp who have actually shown it on a working display)

They will hopefully have industry-leading contrast performance, though OLED does not guarantee it. Sony's OLED headset only has 10,000:1 contrast for example (5,000:1 when calibrated to reference levels) which is no better than a high end plasma.


I think it will be at least 2015 before OLEDs are actually starting to become affordable, and they work out the bugs that are inevitable from a first generation product.

[JarrettH]

Now that LAV will do DVDs, I'm wondering whether the quality is the same? None (weave) in lav video (pass on to gpu) vs DXVA2 in madvr, or should they be identical? :thanks:

[mzso]

Supposedly there will be sets from Samsung and LG by the end of the year, but I am skeptical, as they have shown very little, and they keep getting pushed back.

I don't think OLED panels are going to be as perfect as everyone is expecting either.

Motion handling will be great. (excellent if they implement interpolation and black frame insertion)
Why the hell would you need BFI? They don't have shitty response times like LCD?


Neither the Samsung nor LG displays that have been announced have standard RGB stripe pixel structures, so they aren't suited to being used as a monitor. (fine for video and probably games)
What do you mean by this?

[pie1394]

Why the hell would you need BFI? They don't have shitty response times like LCD?


Human eyes' persistence of vision...

It does not mean this visual effect is eliminated on hold-type display devices with < 1ms response time...

This is also why impulse-type display devices (Ex: CRT/PDP) often produce higher motion object's resolution...

[Xaurus]

So anyone's got an advice on a good nvidia board for 720p to 1080p Jinc3 AR chroma+luma upscale please? How about a $150 1GB GTX650Ti? I've got no idea how much crunching power this monster of an algorithm might require for 720p to 1080p....really the +1K SP's of the 660 :confused:

Hi leeperry,

I had gpu-z running in the background while watching a 720p BR rip movie upscaled on my 1080p display. Latest LAV with CUVID. This with Jinc4 AR for chroma and Lanczos4 AR for image.

Here are the max stats:
Temperature: 54 C
Memory used: 473 MB
GPU load: 47%
Memory controller load: 17%
Video engine load: 12%

Thought you might find it useful.

[jokerb47]

what would be better for luma upscaling: Lancos 3 AR or Jinc 3 noAR?

[ryrynz]

what would be better for luma upscaling: Lancos 3 AR or Jinc 3 noAR?

There really is no "better" but I think most pros here would choose to go with Lanczos3AR over Jinc3 but it really depends on how nitpicky you want to be about ringing. Take a screenshot of each and compare for yourself.

[leeperry]

I had gpu-z running in the background while watching a 720p BR rip movie upscaled on my 1080p display. Latest LAV with CUVID. This with Jinc4 AR for chroma and Lanczos4 AR for image.

Here are the max stats:
Temperature: 54 C
Memory used: 473 MB
GPU load: 47%
Memory controller load: 17%
Video engine load: 12%
Sweet, thanks! How about Jinc3 AR for both luma and chroma please? I'll be ordering the 650Ti tomorrow I think. I'll just install my VF1000 onto an overclocked board.

And the board is in its highest clocks settings? Kazuya tells me that Jinc4 AR chroma+luma only does spikes to 29% on his HD4850.

[Xaurus]

Sweet, thanks! How about Jinc3 AR for both luma and chroma please? I'll be ordering the 650Ti tomorrow I think. I'll just install my VF1000 onto an overclocked board.

And the board is in its highest clocks settings? Kazuya tells me that Jinc4 AR chroma+luma only does spikes to 29% on his HD4850.
I would love to test it for you but a few minutes after my testing the SSD with Windows on it in my HTPC died. Yeah, died. I didn't even think they could do that.

So basically it will be a few days until I get a new one.

I find it really strange if he claims Jinc4 AR chroma+luma max is 29% with a HD 4850 for 720p -> 1080p...
http://www.hwcompare.com/13397/geforce-gtx-660-vs-radeon-hd-4850-1gb/

edit: Actually I never checked which performance state the GPU was in. Should have fired up gpu-z after a minute or so I guess. So you can discard my numbers for now. :)

[Moony349]

While we are talking about TV's, just wanted to say that I absolutely adore my Panasonic P50-UT50.

For ~800 dollars I don't think any LCD (or other Plasma, for that matter) comes close.

I run a black background on the TV and I can barely tell that it's on when the room is completely dark. The bezel is the same color as the bars when watching widescreen films. Handles motion perfectly; unlike large LCDs in remotely similar price range. Drawbacks; of course; burn-in, IR, reflective as hell --> don't watch it in a bright room and don't leave anything on the screen.

Anyway, just wanted to throw in my recommendation for 2012 Panny's; especially the UT50 and its more expensive cousins. Looks gorgeous with MadVR.

[dansrfe]

Behold, the best TV as of yet: http://elitelcdtv.com/elite-lcd-hdtv-overview/

Of course I love my Panasonic TC-P65V10 but the next TV I'm going to buy will probably be an OLED when they're bigger and in the right price range.

[dansrfe]

Ok so apparently the last couple of madVR versions don't acknowledge the ICC profile set by Windows...it used to consider it in previous versions of madVR though. I think it has to do with madVR's new behavior where it resets Direct3D or something like that because the screen flickers when I resize videos into fullscreen exclusive mode and before the last couple of versions madVR didn't do that.

[mzso]

Human eyes' persistence of vision...

It does not mean this visual effect is eliminated on hold-type display devices with < 1ms response time...

This is also why impulse-type display devices (Ex: CRT/PDP) often produce higher motion object's resolution...

Yeah, so? The point is for the motion to be fluid not flickery.

[6233638]

Why the hell would you need BFI? They don't have shitty response times like LCD?The majority of motion blur seen on LCDs is now caused by the human vision system due to LCDs being sample-and-hold type displays rather than being impulse-driven like CRTs were. (and Plasmas somewhat are)

This is why modern LCDs with scanning backlights can have essentially zero motion blur.

OLED is similar to LCD in that it is a sample-and-hold display technology if it's not using black frame insertion.


Interpolation will still be necessary because 24p is not nearly a high enough framerate to perceive fluid motion. (native 24p judders a lot on panning)

Yeah, so? The point is for the motion to be fluid not flickery.Both CRTs and Plasma flicker. (in many cases, a Plasma can actually flicker more than CRT)

LED backlight scanning operating at 240Hz+ should have no, or almost no perceptible flicker relative to either of these technologies.

There's no reason OLED couldn't be more like LCDs with LED backlight scanning, rather than being more like CRT/Plasma.

What do you mean by this?LG are using RGBW subpixels, and Samsung appear to be using a vertical subpixel arrangement. Neither of these are suited to use as a monitor, which expects horizontally arranged RGB stripes.

http://i.imgur.com/BvzNV.jpg (http://roricon.egloos.com/m/3810249)

Behold, the best TV as of yet: http://elitelcdtv.com/elite-lcd-hdtv-overview/The Elites have serious color decoding issues due to the Sharp Quattron panel that uses RGBY subpixels, and it does not turn local-dimming zones off, so the set still glows in a dark room. (but does still exceed contrast of most other displays)

You need to use an external CMS with one of these for good color reproduction, and even then I don't know that it's worth it.

Sharp make good LCD panels, but bad TVs. (though I would avoid anything using a Quattron UV2A panel rather than an RGB UV2A panel)

[njfoses]

With all the new versions out in the last few weeks i have not really been keeping up. Im in the same boat as you as i cant stand ringing. I have a dlp and prefer the film look. What would you recommend at this point for chroma, image up and image down on the latest madvr?

Would anybody be willing to share their opinion on the quoted text for somebody that want's as little ringing as possible?

[jokerb47]

Would anybody be willing to share their opinion on the quoted text for somebody that want's as little ringing as possible?As i get from this thread, if you have enough GPU, you may go with Jinc3 AR for everything. If problems, try first change chroma to SoftCubic 80/100 and test, then luma to Lancos3 AR.

[6233638]

Would anybody be willing to share their opinion on the quoted text for somebody that want's as little ringing as possible?For the lowest amount of ringing, SoftCubic 80 still seems to be the best. (without the anti-ringing filter - that actually makes SoftCubic worse) SoftCubic has the lowest amount of aliasing, tied with Jinc. (Jinc wins on some tests, SoftCubic wins on others)

For good sources (HD or ringing/artefact-free DVD) that's probably going to be too soft though.

The next option would be Mitchell-Netravali with the anti-ringing filter which has almost no ringing, is quite a bit sharper, but can suffer from aliasing. I would still call that a "soft" filter though - it's just nowhere near as soft as SoftCubic is.

If you want sharper than that, Jinc 3 with the anti-ringing filter seems to be the best option. It does introduce some ringing, but only a small amount, and it has excellent aliasing properties. It's also quite a sharp filter, which is good for HD or good SD sources.

Right now, I find myself switching between SoftCubic 80 and Jinc 3 depending on the quality of the source, which is easy to do now thanks to being able to customise shortcuts.


For Chroma upscaling, I am liking Jinc 3 with the anti-ringing filter enabled for sharper Luma scalers (basically anything above Mitchell-Netravali) and Spline 3 with the anti-ringing filter for the softer luma scalers.


For Luma downscaling, which I should point out is not something I use often, Catmull-Rom with both the anti-ringing filter and linear light options enabled seems to be the best choice in my testing so far. Most of the scaling algorithms look really bad in linear light to be honest, but Catmull-Rom combined with the anti-ringing filter seems to avoid most of those problems.

As i get from this thread, if you have enough GPU, you may go with Jinc3 AR for everything. If problems, try first change chroma to SoftCubic 80/100 and test, then luma to Lancos3 AR.You should definitely not use SoftCubic on Chroma - at least that is my opinion. Even SoftCubic 50 is far too soft, and reduces the brightness of, or desaturates Chroma.

[jmone]

Great - got a Asus ENGTX660-DC2-2GD5 GF GTX660 DirectCU II PCI-E 3.0, 2GB on order (hope it gets here for the weekend) and will repost the 60i results.

FYI - 1080/60i material dropped to 52% GPU utalisation on this card with Jin3 AR :)

After almost an hour the temp is in the low 70c and fan speed is low 60% mark. It is quiet as Nevcairel suggested but I'm not one that is annoyed by some fan noise (and I think most of the noise is the Shuttle Case Fan anyway). It was a squeeze getting this card in a Shuttle SFF case!

[vivan]

LG are using RGBW subpixels, and Samsung appear to be using a vertical subpixel arrangement. Neither of these are suited to use as a monitor, which expects horizontally arranged RGB stripes.This is true only if you're talking about Windows and ClearType without any modifications.

[nx6]

This is true only if you're talking about Windows and ClearType without any modifications.

Keeping in mind this is a MadVR thread, and MadVR is Windows only.

[vivan]

Keeping in mind this is a MadVR thread, and MadVR is Windows only.Keeping in mind MadVR doesn't use ClearType, and thus subpixel arrangment doesn't make any difference when watching video.
So, talking about using something as display not for watching video was offtopic in the first place.

[Keiyakusha]

I believe even windows's ClearType is adjustable to any subpixel arrangement.

[6233638]

This is true only if you're talking about Windows and ClearType without any modifications.It applies to any kind of subpixel rendering, not just Microsoft's ClearType.
It can also create aliasing issues in games and other computer graphics.

Keeping in mind MadVR doesn't use ClearType, and thus subpixel arrangment doesn't make any difference when watching video.Actually, it can affect video quality. Sharp's UV2A panels can show aliasing or other artefacts (such as moiré) due to their non-standard subpixel arrangement/addressing, for example.

Anything other than RGB stripes is detrimental to image quality in general. It also results in a lower fill-factor when only some of the subpixels are lit. (as each subpixel has to be smaller to fit in the same space)

I believe even windows's ClearType is adjustable to any subpixel arrangement.This does not work as well as one might think. Switching ClearType to BGR results in color fringing on a lot of text on displays which use that subpixel arrangement, for example. I think it only has RGB and BGR options though, not anything else, like vertical subpixel arrangement (which wouldn't really help text rendering much anyway) and there certainly aren't RGBW or RGBY options.

ClearType is not the only subpixel rendering used with computers though. Adobe does its own subpixel font rendering, so does Apple, and subpixel rendering is not only used for text.


This is starting to get wildly off-topic now though, and I apologise for contributing to that.

[njfoses]

For the lowest amount of ringing, SoftCubic 80 still seems to be the best. (without the anti-ringing filter - that actually makes SoftCubic worse) SoftCubic has the lowest amount of aliasing, tied with Jinc. (Jinc wins on some tests, SoftCubic wins on others)

For good sources (HD or ringing/artefact-free DVD) that's probably going to be too soft though.

The next option would be Mitchell-Netravali with the anti-ringing filter which has almost no ringing, is quite a bit sharper, but can suffer from aliasing. I would still call that a "soft" filter though - it's just nowhere near as soft as SoftCubic is.

If you want sharper than that, Jinc 3 with the anti-ringing filter seems to be the best option. It does introduce some ringing, but only a small amount, and it has excellent aliasing properties. It's also quite a sharp filter, which is good for HD or good SD sources.

Right now, I find myself switching between SoftCubic 80 and Jinc 3 depending on the quality of the source, which is easy to do now thanks to being able to customise shortcuts.


For Chroma upscaling, I am liking Jinc 3 with the anti-ringing filter enabled for sharper Luma scalers (basically anything above Mitchell-Netravali) and Spline 3 with the anti-ringing filter for the softer luma scalers.


For Luma downscaling, which I should point out is not something I use often, Catmull-Rom with both the anti-ringing filter and linear light options enabled seems to be the best choice in my testing so far. Most of the scaling algorithms look really bad in linear light to be honest, but Catmull-Rom combined with the anti-ringing filter seems to avoid most of those problems.

You should definitely not use SoftCubic on Chroma - at least that is my opinion. Even SoftCubic 50 is far too soft, and reduces the brightness of, or desaturates Chroma.

Thanks for the input i appreciate it. 99% of my material is hd so i will try jinc 3 with ar for chroma up, jinc 3 with ar for image up, and catmull-rom ar and linear for image down.