madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[VBB]

That's why I said "future-proof" :D

But yeah, sadly enough, budget is now priced at $399. I don't remember paying anywhere close to that for my 960 back then.

[SamuriHL]

Future proof...is that like "you have to travel to the distant future to proof one?" sigh :) You'll be waiting a LONG time. If you think the scalping was bad on the 700 dollar high end card, just wait til the 3060 and 3070 are unleashed. The idea that nVidia is going to learn anything from last week's failure is laughable at best.

[scott1256ca]

Thanks people. Gives me a place to start.
Do you think this would do it?
GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER Overclocked 4GB
the 12G model looks to be about the same performance wise as as a 1060 6G according to userbenchmarks, but for my purposes I don't know how much the loss of the 8G would hurt.

[CZ Eddie]

What do you guys think the cheapest used Nvidia card is that will run 1080i and 720P upscaled with medium NGU settings on a 1080P TV?
It won't ever be doing 480P or 1080P or 4K. Only 720P/1080i OTA TV (my area won't get ATSC 3.0 for a while yet).

I read that I'd want the 10XX series or newer to get the hardware decoder for HEVC.
But I don't think that is necessary since this installation will only be for watching live OTA TV in 1080i and 720P on a 1080P TV.

I have also read that MadVR likes Cuda Cores, so I put together a list of ~$80-$150 video cards and how they ranked for cuda cores.
I added my HTPC card and a couple of more expensive GPU's just to see how the lower cards stacked up against them.

Am I wrong to think the 780ti could be the best <$100 budget card for my needs?

https://i.ibb.co/9Vzq3YR/Untitled.jpg

[huhn]

a 1060 can do that with ease. i don't have one around but a 960 should be fine too for this task both cards are available in relative high numbers.

[nevcairiel]

A 780 Ti is frankly too old, you miss out on practically all recent video improvements, and cuda cores isn't the only metric.
I would agree that a 960 is probably a good choice, a 4GB model if possible. You can even get 1050 Tis for around 100 new here, so a used 1060 or such below 100 should be possible as well.

[CZ Eddie]

Thanks, guys!

[*MidnightWatcher*]

GTX 1060 6GB, not the 3GB version.

[chros]

Yes, and if you can wait couple of months until the new gen mid range will be released then they will be even cheaper.

[CZ Eddie]

I need a card now because this is for my NCAA football watching setup out in the garage, which handles the whole-house audio & video also.
Ended up buying a PNY GTX 1060 6GB for $140.
More than I wanted to spend, but it was the best deal I could find on eBay at that moment.
The 960's were about $110 but I figured it was worth it to spend $30 more on a 1060 to get HEVC decoding in case I need it for next year when ATSC 3.0 (4K OTA) hits my area.

Now I can button up the garage build by this weekend and go back to working on more productive projects.

hook 'em horns!

[Ilovetv9]

Rookie here, need some help. I'm trying to watch some .mpg files that are "Top Field First" "interlaced video" according to mediainfo. When watching those same files in vlc and turning on deinterlace, vlc properly deinterlaces the video and it plays very smooth like it should. But when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters it does not deinterlace properly. I have my settings set up like this - mpc-be video decoder configuration scan type = progressive. In lav filters settings - deinterlacing mode = disabled (progressive). In madvr settings - I turn on deinterlace film mode or video mode, neither does any deinterlacing. And if I try to use mpc-be deinterlacer or lav filters deinterlacer, both fail at deinterlacing the video, just like madvr is. What am I doing wrong? VLC does it properly, but I prefer to use mpc-be+madvr+lav filters because it plays all videos in better quality. How can I deinterlace these .mpg video files properly with mpc-be+madvr+lav filters? Please and thanks for any help.

[Ilovetv9]

Doing a little more testing with mpc-hc. I realized, when I disable madvr and use the system default, then the deinterlacing works like it should. But when I enable madvr and try to deinterlace, it will not deinterlace. Why is this happening?

[VBB]

You're probably using DXVA2 or D3D11 native GPU decoding. Switch to copy-back in LAV filters, and it should work.

[el Filou]

I'm trying to watch some .mpg files that are "Top Field First" "interlaced video" according to mediainfo.Can you give more information on the source? DVD, camcorder, TV recording? This is 25 fps, right?I have my settings set up like this - mpc-be video decoder configuration scan type = progressive. In lav filters settings - deinterlacing mode = disabled (progressive).Well this is wrong because it sends the frames to the render as progressive, i.e. not interlaced, so madVR won't even try to deinterlace because the decoder tells it doesn't have to.
Set Deinterlacing Mode/scan type to Auto, choose DXVA2 copyback as decoder (just to be sure), and disable LAV software deinterlacing.In madvr settings - I turn on deinterlace film mode or video mode, neither does any deinterlacing.Can you confirm you're seeing interlacing (combing) artifacts in the scenario where you're saying it doesn't work?
In madVR settings, check "automatically activate deinterlacing when needed", uncheck "disable automatic source type detection" (i.e. the options "force film/video mode" should be greyed out. Then it should deinterlace. If it still doesn't, please link to a screenshot of the madVR OSD during playback (Ctrl+J), post it to an image hosting site.

[Ilovetv9]

Can you give more information on the source? DVD, camcorder, TV recording? This is 25 fps, right?Well this is wrong because it sends the frames to the render as progressive, i.e. not interlaced, so madVR won't even try to deinterlace because the decoder tells it doesn't have to.
Set Deinterlacing Mode/scan type to Auto, choose DXVA2 copyback as decoder (just to be sure), and disable LAV software deinterlacing.Can you confirm you're seeing interlacing (combing) artifacts in the scenario where you're saying it doesn't work?
In madVR settings, check "automatically activate deinterlacing when needed", uncheck "disable automatic source type detection" (i.e. the options "force film/video mode" should be greyed out. Then it should deinterlace. If it still doesn't, please link to a screenshot of the madVR OSD during playback (Ctrl+J), post it to an image hosting site.

Hey. Thanks so much for the help. Here is a link to a .mpg file that didn't deinterlace properly for me with madvr+lav filters enabled in mpc-be.

Link - https://archive.org/download/the-all-new-alexei-sayle-show-s1-e1/The%20All%20New%20Alexei%20Sayle%20Show%20-%201x01.mpg

In lav filters settings I changed what you said to - Deinterlacing Mode/scan type to Auto, and hardware decoder to use - DXVA2 copyback. And that did fix my problem and it deinterlaced when I enabled madvr deinterlacer video mode.

About 50% of interlaced videos will properly deinterlace for me when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters, but some (like the one I posted) does not deinterlace. I thought I remember reading that you are not supposed to use more than 1 deinterlacer when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters becuase that is redundant and will worsen the quality as you are only supposed to use 1 deinterlacer to keep maximum quality. Is that wrong and I need to always use lav filters deinterlacer and madvr deinterlacer at the same time? Do I always have to use one of the hardware decoders in lav filters settings to deinterlace these types of videos properly? Next to hardware decoder setting there are resolutions sd hd. Hd was checked automatically, should I also check sd for the best possible quality? Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be sure I'm maintaining highest possible quality when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters and deinterlacing.

[huhn]

the trick is simple you make sure that lavfilter settings are left at default so it can say "hey look madVR this file is interlaced"
this works as long as d3d11 native is not used madVR will fully automatically deint every video that is flagged as interlaced.

lavfilter only deint when you actives one of the present deint option and is capable of doing so (doesn't work with native decoder) and if lavfilter is using deint madVR isn't going to deint because it will tell madVR that the file is progressive.
as long as you are not changing the deint settings on the left.
it's not applied 2 times.

edit: you don't use an AMD card by any chance aren't you?

[el Filou]

About 50% of interlaced videos will properly deinterlace for me when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters, but some (like the one I posted) does not deinterlace.I've looked at that file with DXVA deinterlacing on both a GeForce and a Radeon and it seems like it's mixed material, i.e. some parts are sourced from film and others from video, so it cannot be deinterlaced all the time as it's not video all the time. What often happened in the old days was outside scenes were shot on film, and inside scenes were shot on video. If you look for example at around 12:00 when it transitions from a street scene to a studio scene, the scene in the street is using 2:2 film cadence, while the studio scene is using 50i video (if you pause in MPC and use Ctrl+right key you can frame-skip and see the individual frames). If you disable deinterlacing (Shift+Ctrl+Alt+D until you see it says off), you can see the scene shot outside still has clear motion (well, as clear as a composite video recording from that time can look anyway :)), while the following scene in the studio suddenly has a load of combing artifacts on motion.I thought I remember reading that you are not supposed to use more than 1 deinterlacer when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters becuase that is redundant and will worsen the quality as you are only supposed to use 1 deinterlacer to keep maximum quality. Is that wrong and I need to always use lav filters deinterlacer and madvr deinterlacer at the same time?As huhn explained, you can't deinterlace an image two times, so there's no risk. However, your quality (and performance) will be determined by the deinterlacer that runs first, so the one in the decoder if it can run. The best way is usually to let madVR handle it, so not enable deinterlacing in LAV.
Do I always have to use one of the hardware decoders in lav filters settings to deinterlace these types of videos properly? Not necessarily, you can also use software decoding and madVR will deinterlace the image using hardware as long as you set the Deinterlacing Mode setting to Auto.
To check that madVR is deinterlacing, press Ctrl+J to bring up the OSD and find the line that says "deinterlacing" (it should be just above the queue stats): it should say "on (says upstream)".Next to hardware decoder setting there are resolutions sd hd. Hd was checked automatically, should I also check sd for the best possible quality?That doesn't control deinterlacing, only if hardware decode is used for specific resolutions. You can check SD if you want, it shouldn't cause problems but SD video is very easy to decode by the CPU especially MPEG2, so it wouldn't make a lot of difference in performance.

[Ilovetv9]

edit: you don't use an AMD card by any chance aren't you?

Yes. My computer's video card is a - amd radeon hd 8330. (super old I know I need to upgrade lol)

But thank you very much huhn & el Filou for the help and advice. I will test and tweak the different settings you guys suggested. I am very grateful. And super happy to finally be able to watch old analog interlaced videos in the best possible quality on my computer. :)

[huhn]

this old card with relative old driver should have one of the best hardware deinterlacer out there.

[CZ Eddie]

Can anyone help for my broadcast TV setup?

Which is the best Lav video setting for watching nothing but 720P and 1080i broadcast TV on a 1080P TV with an older GTX 1060 GPU on an 8GB 3Ghz quad-core system?

I thought it might be D3D11, but then I read that D3D11 Native does not support interlacing.
And 1080i is most of what I'd be watching on this particular setup.

Also, what are some of the better MadVR settings to try for cleaning up broadcast TV artifacts and make things look more clear?

[CZ Eddie]

Can anyone help for my broadcast TV setup?

Which is the best Lav video setting for watching nothing but 720P and 1080i broadcast TV on a 1080P TV with an older GTX 1060 GPU on an 8GB 3Ghz quad-core system?


Hmm, I just ran through most of the Lav decoder options while watching FOX football via JRiver.
And none seemed to have any affect on my MadVR rendering ms.
Didn't really notice any obvious video quality differences either.
Though FOX 720P OTA football games is not a very good quality source to begin with.

The artifacts on my 2019 $700 cheapo LG 75" 4K football-watching TV are pretty crazy and I'm on a mission to clean them up if possible.

[el Filou]

DXVA2 Native gives blurred chroma on NVIDIA cards, so to get the best quality other decoding options are better.
If you only watch HD I would use DXVA2 Copyback (it gives deinterlacing artefacts with 576i on my setup, but not with 1080i), or even software. Try to compare both while watching CPU and GPU clocks and %age utilization, software will use the CPU more but H.264 L4.0 is really easy to decode on a modern CPU, DXVA Copyback will use the GPU slightly more with madVR but with 720p/1080i it should be hardly noticeable.

You say you're watching on a 1080p TV but then you talk about a 4K 75" one? Which is it?

madVR has "reduce compression artifacts" (in processing => artifact removal), which is self-explanatory. If you use it in combination with NGU sharp you also gain some processing time.
I've found that with HDTV, "reduce banding" is useful too, I use it at low setting, and previously when my cable provider was stuffing too many channels on each mux sometimes I had to push it to medium (I mapped it to a keyboard shortcut and only increase it when I notice too obvious banding in the content I'm watching).

[Alexkral]

If you only watch HD I would use DXVA2 Copyback (it gives deinterlacing artefacts with 576i on my setup, but not with 1080i), or even software.

Is there any reason why you don't even consider CUVID?

[huhn]

currently doesn't add anything over DXVA2 copyback and forces your GPU to maximum performance pstate.

there was even a consideration to remove it a long time ago. a new mode was shared as an idea no clue what is currently planned so don't take this as up to date.

[CZ Eddie]

If you only watch HD I would use DXVA2 Copyback (it gives deinterlacing artefacts with 576i on my setup, but not with 1080i), or even software.

Hmm, okay thanks. I will focus my attention on testing those two specifically.

Try to compare both while watching CPU and GPU clocks and %age utilization, software will use the CPU more but H.264 L4.0 is really easy to decode on a modern CPU, DXVA Copyback will use the GPU slightly more with madVR but with 720p/1080i it should be hardly noticeable.

I was only looking at rendering ms but this is a good suggestion.
Huhn recommended GPU-Z in another thread to somebody. Mabye I'll try that software.



You say you're watching on a 1080p TV but then you talk about a 4K 75" one? Which is it?

The 4K TV is my primary TV but I am running my HTPC at 1080P, not 2160P.
I'd rather spend all my processing power on cleaning up the crappy OTA image than upconverting to 4K.
Sometimes OTA looks really good and clean, but much of the time it's full of various artifacts.


madVR has "reduce compression artifacts" (in processing => artifact removal), which is self-explanatory.

Yep, was hoping for some guidance on those options (and where they can help) and anything else that might help.

If you use it in combination with NGU sharp you also gain some processing time.

What does "gain some processing time" mean? Are you saying it consumes more GPU processing power?

I've found that with HDTV, "reduce banding" is useful too, I use it at low setting, and previously when my cable provider was stuffing too many channels on each mux sometimes I had to push it to medium

Thanks for the tip!

I mapped it to a keyboard shortcut and only increase it when I notice too obvious banding in the content I'm watching.

I really need to sit down and configure keyboard shortcuts to my remote control.

[Ilovetv9]

[QUOTE=huhn;1924256]the trick is simple you make sure that lavfilter settings are left at default so it can say "hey look madVR this file is interlaced"
this works as long as d3d11 native is not used madVR will fully automatically deint every video that is flagged as interlaced.

For best possible video quality when using madvr+lav filters, which should I choose of the 5 options in my hardware decoder list?
- nvidia cuvid, intel quicksync, dxva2 copy back, dxva2 native or d3d11

Are you saying madvr cannot automatically deinterlace if I choose d3d11? I thought it's always better to not automatic deinterlace because sometimes videos are flagged incorrectly as interlaced and it's always best to use your own eyes to determine, so I always try to keep the interlaced settings as progressive, unless I know the video needs to be deinterlaced, then I turn on auto, then enable madvr deinterlacer. Am I correct?

[huhn]

just leave it at auto and d3d11 will never do deint it can't do it with madVR madshi never implemented it.

you can just toggle deint with control+alt+shift+d no need to change lavfilter settings.

just stick to DXVA2 copyback it really doesn't matter that much.

[el Filou]

Yep, was hoping for some guidance on those options (and where they can help) and anything else that might help.Can't really help with RCA sorry, as I don't use it on my HTPC with the plasma already masking some artefacts up to a point, and I don't enable it on my desktop for other reasons. I suggest experimenting, like starting with a low level and increasing progressively until you find artefacts don't really bother you anymore.What does "gain some processing time" mean? Are you saying it consumes more GPU processing power?No, the opposite actually, but only if you also use NGU Sharp at the same time. IIRC, due to the way the two algorithms works madVR can combine steps used in both and it doesn't cost much more processing power to do NGU Sharp + RCA than NGU Sharp used alone.

[Damien147]

I've read that my TV has 8 bit panel but rtings says this:

Color Depth 10 bit

The Samsung KU6300 can display our gradient test image fairly well. On our test picture, the gradation is smooth overall in the light shades with some small anomalies in the darker shades, especially in the green color. But it should not be an issue in regular content.

Update 10/26/2016: Our original test was showing 8 bit gradations due to incorrect drivers on our system. After some correction to our test apparatus, we have retested the color depth and found that it is able to display a 10 bit gradient smoothly.

What's the proper bit depth to put in Madvr properties?8 bit or 10 bit?:confused:

[Asmodian]

8 bit is safer. Test it, and if you cannot tell the difference use 8 bit. madVR has very good dithering so having it dither to 8 bit is often better than any dithering the panel, display, or GPU might do when sending 10 bit from madVR.

I like these gradient test patterns:
gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1 24fps.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/file/4dia3lixs0n9xyo/gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1+24fps.mkv/file)
gradient-perceptual-v2.1 24fps.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/file/z1f4ahg3784lfwz/gradient-perceptual-v2.1+24fps.mkv/file)

[Damien147]

It says 10 bit(8 bit+FRC).You made a point and I don't think I need to search more,8 bit it is.Thank you.

[SirMaster]

It says 10 bit(8 bit+FRC).You made a point and I don't think I need to search more,8 bit it is.Thank you.

Yeah, FRC is a type a dithering, but I would reckon madVR's error-diffusion dithering is higher quality than your display's FRC algorithm.

[jandari]

Im using kodi dsplayer 17.6. and madvr. Last working nvidia driver was 446.14 since then i had a lot of bugs improperly switching hdr on off and with gui. With previous version 456.38 almost all was fixed but issue remains when stopping dsplayer playback and getting back to kodi gui, the gui of kodi remains extremely dark. You have to restart kodi to return to normal brightness(windows gui is normal color, no resolution switch happens). With rolling back to 446.14 driver everything works fine. I think I must be nvidia driver issue.

[mclingo]

Im using kodi dsplayer 17.6. and madvr. Last working nvidia driver was 446.14 since then i had a lot of bugs improperly switching hdr on off and with gui. With previous version 456.38 almost all was fixed but issue remains when stopping dsplayer playback and getting back to kodi gui, the gui of kodi remains extremely dark. You have to restart kodi to return to normal brightness(windows gui is normal color, no resolution switch happens). With rolling back to 446.14 driver everything works fine. I think I must be nvidia driver issue.

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=351534

have u tried this build of DS?

[Damien147]

Yeah, FRC is a type a dithering, but I would reckon madVR's error-diffusion dithering is higher quality than your display's FRC algorithm.

Yeah,that's what I understood with Asmodian's words and slight googling.Thanks for the confirmation.

[cosmitz]

Hey there. So i have had a bit of audio sync issue for forever now, but i've just settled on debugging it tonight since there were /so/ many moving parts, but after testing i've traced it back to madVR exclusive mode. I'm running madVR (latest, upgrading didn't solve it), on MPC-HC, W7, and here's the debug stats imgur (https://imgur.com/ONuhgfn).

The issue is that while in exclusive fullscreen mode (which btw, the 3 second delay setting does nothing), i have a measure of audio lag/desync which stays consistent, and is not stuttery or anything, just always a step behind the video. Not really sure how much but feels like 100-200 ms. Also, not using exclusive creates some random video jutter which i'd rather avoid. Any idea where to start looking?

[VBB]

What display, video card, receiver do you have? I switch between FS exclusive and windowed all the time, and I've never noticed any difference in audio delay.

[senzaparole]

Hi guys, I use Madvr with MPC-HC on a PC with RX 5700 XT video card.
In the Lav Video I have selected:

- Hardware Decoder to use: D3D11;
- Active Decoder: inactive;
- Active Hardware Acceleration: none;
- Hardware Device to use: Automatic (native).

My doubt is whether it is correct that Active Decoder is set to "inactive" and the Active Hardware Acceleration is set to "none"

[jandari]

Yes, no diference. Its obviously nvidia driver problem, because it works flawlessly with older version driver. And with previous version there are some fixes for madvr only this bug is left, a lot were fixed that appeared in versions in between.Maybe madshi can contact nvidia.

[VBB]

@senzaparole - Yes, this is correct when looking at it while not playing anything. Your settings are OK.

[cosmitz]

What display, video card, receiver do you have? I switch between FS exclusive and windowed all the time, and I've never noticed any difference in audio delay.

I'm using a Samsung older non-smart TV on a 1070 via HDMI with audio. But it really doesn't matter where i fullscreen exclusive or windowed (on any of my 4 monitors), the behavior remains the same while putting out audio through the TV with madVR on exclusive. I've tried switching audio renderers, and i think the non-direct sound is slightly better, but i'd need some testing video clip to scrub through frame by frame to figure it out exactly.

[VBB]

Are you bit-streaming or decoding on the PC? Either way, this sounds odd. The only time I deal with audio delays is when I use processing on the TV (Real Cinema, I'm looking at you!) :P

[chros]

:) Which state of Real Cinema? Because it works exactly the opposite way than most think.

[el Filou]

I'm running madVR (latest, upgrading didn't solve it), on MPC-HC, W7, and here's the debug stats imgur (https://imgur.com/ONuhgfn).
The issue is that while in exclusive fullscreen mode (which btw, the 3 second delay setting does nothing), i have a measure of audio lag/desync which stays consistent, and is not stuttery or anything, just always a step behind the video. Not really sure how much but feels like 100-200 ms. Also, not using exclusive creates some random video jutter which i'd rather avoid. Any idea where to start looking?Any reason why you're running a present queue of 14? That is really big. This is Windows 7? Have you tried D3D11 presentation just to check if it changes anything?
I assume you took this photo while playback was paused? Could you take another one while the meda is playing?

[clsid]

- Active Decoder: inactive;You must access the settings of an ACTIVE instance of the filter to see what is used during playback.

MPC-HC menu > Play > Filters > LAV Video

[VBB]

@chros - Real Cinema ON, which then does a 5:5 pull down, adds a huge delay to the video. I can only speak to how it works when going through a receiver, though, and of course also only when it comes to my LG C7. In addition to Real Cinema, playback at 24Hz also adds a delay compared to 60Hz. Audio delay drives me nuts, and that's actually the reason I am now back at 60Hz with smooth motion: no noticeable delay.

[cosmitz]

Any reason why you're running a present queue of 14? That is really big. This is Windows 7? Have you tried D3D11 presentation just to check if it changes anything?
I assume you took this photo while playback was paused? Could you take another one while the meda is playing?

Did a fair bit of research when i set this all up so i'm sure it was for a good reason but i can't tell you what that was for the life of me. Lowered it down to 12. W7, yes, no aero and desktop compositing off, but tried turning all of that on and setting it up from madVR and it still defaults to D3D9.

https://streamable.com/6vfcuq << vid, exclusive mode, excuse the phone but setting up obs and stuff i think would'ave interfered with the process. You can notice the audio delay there. (i have to admit that hearing that line 'my mother named me Enola' with the punchy enunciation on Enola clearly marking the word was was triggered me to solve this since it was so visible)

For comparison, this is with it in non-exclusive mode https://streamable.com/l3emvd There is definitely a difference in sync clearly visible when objectively recording. Which also drops frames constantly and delays, which is what i assume the stutters i notice are.

[j_manou]

Im using kodi dsplayer 17.6. and madvr. Last working nvidia driver was 446.14 since then i had a lot of bugs improperly switching hdr on off and with gui. With previous version 456.38 almost all was fixed but issue remains when stopping dsplayer playback and getting back to kodi gui, the gui of kodi remains extremely dark. You have to restart kodi to return to normal brightness(windows gui is normal color, no resolution switch happens). With rolling back to 446.14 driver everything works fine. I think I must be nvidia driver issue.

I have exactly the same problem

[dejarik]

I have used Madvr for a while with a TCL 6 and never had
any problems with HDR passthrough but with my new Sony it's
a mess i'm force to use tone mapping, it looks good but i would
prefer using the TV HDR directly is there something i could be doing wrong ? or Madvr simply doesnt support the TV.

[huhn]

what GPU?