madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

madVR doesn't crash, it's probably bugged behavior of the driver (kind of flickering with SuperRes, playback stops, reddish-dark tone with FS).
No problems with NNEDI.
Now I wonder why doubling works well under these circumstances, but quadrupling doesn't.
Oh, I've just tested with my NVidia 650 and can reproduce a problem. Well, I don't get flickering or reddish dark tone, but playback freezes with a black screen. FWIW, you can do image doubling with NNEDI3 and quadrupling with NEDI. That works. But quadrupling with NNEDI3 doesn't seem to work. Not sure why yet. No problem on AMD or Intel. Just NVidia.

Could you create a bug tracker entry for this? I won't have time to look into this until next weekend, at the earliest...

[Ver Greeneyes]

Hmm, I'm still having some issues with the latest version and the D3D11 path, in windowed mode, with video playback getting stuck showing the same frame forever (audio continues just fine and there's no crash, but the frame never changes even if I seek). Using 64-bit MPC-HC 1.7.8.162 and madVR 0.88.5, in Windows 7. My GPU is a GeForce GTX 580. I don't have steps to reproduce, but it seems to happen most frequently when MPC-HC doesn't have focus and I do something that causes a bit of lag (like refreshing this page in Firefox). But that's just a guess, really. I also don't think it happens if I pause the video before interacting with another program, but pausing and unpausing doesn't fix it.

In case it matters (since I'm not sure anyone else has reported this), I have the flush settings for windowed mode set to "don't flush", "flush", "don't flush", "don't flush", and "present several frames in advance" is checked. I use a 3DLUT and 3-tap Jinc for chroma upscaling, but no doubling, enhancements or refinement (and there's no image scaling going on, because the window fits the video resolution).

[ryrynz]

Yeah I've had some rather odd display issues as well, also can't seem to get good present queues going.. will have to try and compare vs old versions.

[Ver Greeneyes]

My present queues look good, though the render queues seem to get stuck on 10 or 11 out of 16 and dip down to 6 or so (but they don't drop to 0 or anything unless I pause, haven't checked when the problem is happening). I have CPU queue size set to 24, GPU queue size set to 16, "how many video frames shall be presented in advance" set to 8. I also haven't seen this problem without the D3D11 path enabled.

[toniash]

@madshi
Why I can apply shaders before and after DXVA upscaling and I can't apply your image enhancements?
:thanks:

[madshi]

Hmm, I'm still having some issues with the latest version and the D3D11 path, in windowed mode, with video playback getting stuck showing the same frame forever (audio continues just fine and there's no crash, but the frame never changes even if I seek). Using 64-bit MPC-HC 1.7.8.162 and madVR 0.88.5, in Windows 7. My GPU is a GeForce GTX 580. I don't have steps to reproduce, but it seems to happen most frequently when MPC-HC doesn't have focus and I do something that causes a bit of lag (like refreshing this page in Firefox). But that's just a guess, really. I also don't think it happens if I pause the video before interacting with another program, but pausing and unpausing doesn't fix it.

In case it matters (since I'm not sure anyone else has reported this), I have the flush settings for windowed mode set to "don't flush", "flush", "don't flush", "don't flush", and "present several frames in advance" is checked. I use a 3DLUT and 3-tap Jinc for chroma upscaling, but no doubling, enhancements or refinement (and there's no image scaling going on, because the window fits the video resolution).
Would be nice if you could find a way to reproduce this problem reliably. If you found a way, it would be great if you could check if the same problem also occurs with the madVR default settings. And if not, which changes cause the problem.

Why I can apply shaders before and after DXVA upscaling and I can't apply your image enhancements?
The "image enhancements" should work. But the "upscaling refinement" options will not work because all the scaling is done by DXVA before the image even reaches madVR's own rendering pipeline.

[MS-DOS]

Hmm, I'm still having some issues with the latest version and the D3D11 path, in windowed mode, with video playback getting stuck showing the same frame forever (audio continues just fine and there's no crash, but the frame never changes even if I seek). Using 64-bit MPC-HC 1.7.8.162 and madVR 0.88.5, in Windows 7. My GPU is a GeForce GTX 580. I don't have steps to reproduce, but it seems to happen most frequently when MPC-HC doesn't have focus and I do something that causes a bit of lag (like refreshing this page in Firefox). But that's just a guess, really. I also don't think it happens if I pause the video before interacting with another program, but pausing and unpausing doesn't fix it.

In case it matters (since I'm not sure anyone else has reported this), I have the flush settings for windowed mode set to "don't flush", "flush", "don't flush", "don't flush", and "present several frames in advance" is checked. I use a 3DLUT and 3-tap Jinc for chroma upscaling, but no doubling, enhancements or refinement (and there's no image scaling going on, because the window fits the video resolution).
Would be nice if you could find a way to reproduce this problem reliably. If you found a way, it would be great if you could check if the same problem also occurs with the madVR default settings. And if not, which changes cause the problem.

It seems to be the same bug I'm having (https://www.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1721017#post1721017) and is most probably related to Win 7 desktop composition.

[Francois76l]

With the last release (0.88.5) the present queue is stuck at 0-4/8.
I tested on my laptop (display @ 60Hz + Smooth motion).
Same for you?

[toniash]

The "image enhancements" should work. But the "upscaling refinement" options will not work because all the scaling is done by DXVA before the image even reaches madVR's own rendering pipeline.

Ok Thanks!

[Schwartz]

Would be nice if you could find a way to reproduce this problem reliably. If you found a way, it would be great if you could check if the same problem also occurs with the madVR default settings. And if not, which changes cause the problem.

Ver Greeneyes has got it right; it happens when something else comes to the foreground, such as browsing the web while MPC-HC still plays in a maximized background window. I've so far only seen it happen with DX11 mode + Overlay both enabled.

[a8213711]

Regarding 8 vs 10 bit: the latter would take more VRAM/power? If yes, it would take more than with 8 bit with dithering?
Also from my Windows Control Panel ( http://oi59.tinypic.com/10ifk8w.jpg ) I read 32 bit...I can understand 24 bit, but 32?!

[huhn]

i did some tests with FSE d3d11 10 bit mode.

i get tearing form time to time and i always get tearing when i pause unpause.

so i did some changes to the number of frames present in advanced.

with 1 frame i get always tearing the whole time and that with present times of max below 0.7 ms.

with 2 i get no tear problem yet it working totally fine but i have to check for a longer time.

this is with my AMD system my nvidia system looks more stable with FSE d3d11 10 bit mode but i haven't tested it for a long time.

[huhn]

Regarding 8 vs 10 bit: the latter would take more VRAM/power? If yes, it would take more than with 8 bit with dithering?
Also from my Windows Control Panel ( http://oi59.tinypic.com/10ifk8w.jpg ) I read 32 bit...I can understand 24 bit, but 32?!

RGBA

red green blue and alpha channel.
it "is" 24 bit or 8 bit per channel.

[detmek]

Is that only when using 10bit output, or also when using 8bit output?

Uhm, Pentium G3320 IGPU? Never heard of that yet! My best guess is that the driver are at fault. I've no such problem as you report with my HD4000 on Windows 8.1 x64, at least. MPDN calls D3D11 APIs in a different way. IMHO my way is better. In your specific situation my way seems to make problems, though, but I believe the GPU drivers are at fault for that.


Its a Haswell Pentium processor. It uses GT1 GPU with 10EU units. HD4000 has 20EUs, I think. I may try with previous driver.

[tFWo]

Hmm, I'm still having some issues with the latest version and the D3D11 path, in windowed mode, with video playback getting stuck showing the same frame forever (audio continues just fine and there's no crash, but the frame never changes even if I seek). Using 64-bit MPC-HC 1.7.8.162 and madVR 0.88.5, in Windows 7. My GPU is a GeForce GTX 580. I don't have steps to reproduce, but it seems to happen most frequently when MPC-HC doesn't have focus and I do something that causes a bit of lag (like refreshing this page in Firefox). But that's just a guess, really. I also don't think it happens if I pause the video before interacting with another program, but pausing and unpausing doesn't fix it.

In case it matters (since I'm not sure anyone else has reported this), I have the flush settings for windowed mode set to "don't flush", "flush", "don't flush", "don't flush", and "present several frames in advance" is checked. I use a 3DLUT and 3-tap Jinc for chroma upscaling, but no doubling, enhancements or refinement (and there's no image scaling going on, because the window fits the video resolution).

I have this on Win8.1, 32bit MPC-HC and AMD 270X card.

It happens every time if MPC-HC loses focus when i use "aero peek" (moving the mouse to the lower right corner of the screen) or when i minimize MPC-HC. Not only does the video freeze, but also madvr's OSD freezes.

The only way to resume playback without exiting MPC-HC is to go fullscreen.

It doesn't happen when i just switch/alt tab to another window.

edit: Also noticed that there is a minimum time when it doesn't happen when minimizing the window. Window has to be minimized for approximately one second for the freeze to occur.

[Ver Greeneyes]

It seems to be the same bug I'm having (https://www.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1721017#post1721017) and is most probably related to Win 7 desktop composition.Yes, that sounds like the same issue. I haven't seen it very often, but I've gone ahead and reset my settings to see if I can reproduce it while only enabling D3D11.

It happens every time if MPC-HC loses focus when i use "aero peek" (moving the mouse to the lower right corner of the screen) or when i minimize MPC-HC. Not only does the video freeze, but also madvr's OSD freezes.
[...]
edit: Also noticed that there is a minimum time when it doesn't happen when minimizing the window. Window has to be minimized for approximately one second for the freeze to occur.Oh, good call. I can reproduce it just fine by using Aero peek, even with default settings (aside from enabling D3D11). I may have been using Aero peek accidentally (I sometimes leave my cursor in that area).

[James Freeman]

Minimize MPC-HC window so its only on the task bar and not visible.
Use Winkey+Tab to return to MPC-HC.
Frozen video.

When I resize the window I see the video speed up till it reaches the correct spot, GPU load, MCU and VPU skyrocketing during this stage.
I think all the frames are stored somewhere till they are called to be used... madshi?

[Dogway]

Is it possible to restrict 1080p24 mode to 24fps sources? I can't seem to add a profile group to Displays.
Main reason is "LED clear motion" option in TV (to reduce motion blur) is shared between all these "p" modes but I only want it for 24p, I'm fine playing the rest of the contents as "PC mode".

[madshi]

Regarding 8 vs 10 bit: the latter would take more VRAM/power?
A little bit more RAM, maybe, but not much, and not much more power, either, I would say. But why don't you simply try it out yourself?

Is it possible to restrict 1080p24 mode to 24fps sources? I can't seem to add a profile group to Displays.
Profiles are not supported yet for displays. I'm not totally sure I understand what you need/want. madVR should only switch to 1080p24 for 24fps sources, anyway. So what else do you want?

i did some tests with FSE d3d11 10 bit mode.

i get tearing form time to time and i always get tearing when i pause unpause.

so i did some changes to the number of frames present in advanced.

with 1 frame i get always tearing the whole time and that with present times of max below 0.7 ms.

with 2 i get no tear problem yet it working totally fine but i have to check for a longer time.
Why so low number of frames presented in advance? I would use at least 8!

I have this on Win8.1, 32bit MPC-HC and AMD 270X card.

It happens every time if MPC-HC loses focus when i use "aero peek" (moving the mouse to the lower right corner of the screen) or when i minimize MPC-HC. Not only does the video freeze, but also madvr's OSD freezes.

edit: Also noticed that there is a minimum time when it doesn't happen when minimizing the window. Window has to be minimized for approximately one second for the freeze to occur.
Strange, I thought this would only occur on Windows 7. I can't reproduce any of these problems on my Windows 8.1 x64 PC. I wonder why...

Anyway, for those of you who have problems when MPC-HC is minimized, or when using Aero Peak, does this test build change anything?

http://madshi.net/madVR885test.zip

[James Freeman]

unfortunately no.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Nope, I can still reproduce with tFWo's steps.

[bcec]

I seem to be getting 10-bits only when my display is at 60Hz. When at 23Hz, I don't seem to be getting the 10-bit output.

That is possible, I guess. It could be the GPU or the display, I can't say. There's most probably nothing I can do about it.


I think it is the display (Samsung hu8550). When feeding RGB signal via HDMI, only 60Hz shows 10-bit image. However, if I change nVidia output to YCbCr, then I get 10-bit image at all refresh rates.

[MS-DOS]

Anyway, for those of you who have problems when MPC-HC is minimized, or when using Aero Peak, does this test build change anything?

http://madshi.net/madVR885test.zip
It doesn't for me.

[madshi]

Too bad. Would have been too easy, I guess...

[tFWo]

Anyway, for those of you who have problems when MPC-HC is minimized, or when using Aero Peak, does this test build change anything?

http://madshi.net/madVR885test.zip

Nope.

[James Freeman]

madshi,
As soon as anything happens to the video in terms of SIZE the video comes back to life again.
Even if you stretch the video by only a pixel, maybe it can help...

[huhn]

Why so low number of frames presented in advance? I would use at least 8!

but that's the problem i get tearing with 8.
and don't worry doesn't make any sense to me too...

[MS-DOS]

madshi,
As soon as anything happens to the video in terms of SIZE the video comes back to life again.
Even if you stretch the video by only a pixel, maybe it can help...
It does for me too if the freezing occurred right after minimizing\restoring MPC-HC. However, with some videos I need to keep it minimized for a while for it to happen, and then resizing restores playback just for a moment with about 2000 dropped frames reported and then it freezes again, now forever.

[James Freeman]

It does for me too if the freezing occurred right after minimizing\restoring MPC-HC. However, with some videos I need to keep it minimized for a while for it to happen, and then resizing restores playback just for a moment with about 2000 dropped frames reported and then it freezes again, now forever.

So basically when minimized the renderer needs to be paused, if not, it continues to run and causes trouble.
When it becomes the main window again it should be revived back to life.

What a modern game that uses direct3d 11 does when minimized and then winkey+tab to it back again?

[thegilpins]

Hi with version 88.x I get madvr crashes sometimes when opening or closing video files within potplayer. This only happens if I enable 'use Direct3D for presentation'. I have attached two crash files. This is easily reproducible.

[detmek]

Is that only when using 10bit output, or also when using 8bit output?

Uhm, Pentium G3320 IGPU? Never heard of that yet! My best guess is that the driver are at fault. I've no such problem as you report with my HD4000 on Windows 8.1 x64, at least. MPDN calls D3D11 APIs in a different way. IMHO my way is better. In your specific situation my way seems to make problems, though, but I believe the GPU drivers are at fault for that.



Its a Haswell Pentium processor. It uses GT1 GPU with 10EU units. HD4000 has 20EUs, I think. I may try with previous driver.

Nope, its not a driver. I even did something I wanted to do in last 10 days - I upgraded Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 TP 10074. Problem remains.

Driver version is different on Windows 10, it 10.18.15.4124. It doesn't matter if I use 10bit, 8bit or usual 7bit output, MPC-HC or MPC-BE, x86 or x64.

************
Upgrading from Win 8.1 to Win 10 was not a good idea. It created some system instability (high CPU usage). I had to refomat so I decided to try with Windows 7. Problem remains.

[aufkrawall]

Have created a tracker entry regarding the NV NNEDI3 quadrupling issue.

----------------

Regarding chroma scaling:
I think it was a good idea to remove the NNEDI3 chroma doubling options since they were pretty much redundant because of NNEDI3 chroma scaling and luma doubling/quadrupling options.
I think no one will miss it.

However, in the first post of this thread, it says:
"- no shortcuts, highest quality has priority over anything else"
which is not true anymore with that C-R chroma "shortcut". ;)
I could probably search for days and wouldn't find a (good) example for doing chroma scaling completely via Jinc3. But who knows, I already stumbled over nasty artifacts with NNEDI3 chroma scaling. If it didn't matter how chroma is scaled, you could remove everything instead of bilinear and C-R for it.
It's not impossible that pure Jinc3 scaling can look better than C-R, while the other way round is highly unlikely.

I think MPDN has a nice compromise with those quality templates.
I really want to have a maximum quality mode without any shortcuts, like promised in the first post. It's also about the impression of not educating or teaching users what is good for them and what is not.
When using NNEDI3 image doubling and quadrupling with each 64 neurons, I really don't care if rendering is 1-2% slower due to pure Jinc3 chroma scaling. It doesn't matter.

[JPulowski]

Hi madshi,

Thanks for including LumaSharpen. I did some testing and here is some feedback:

Looks like currently you are using the old version of LumaSharpen, which is 1.4.1. Current version is 1.5.0, which is included with Reshade + SweetFX bundle. I have already modified it for MPC-HC use, you can find it here (http://pastebin.com/rxDjqmGg).
Current madVR implementation uses Pattern 2 (9 tap gaussian, 4+1 texture fetches), although it looks nice on video games it doesn't look that good when it comes to videos (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1673897#post1673897). In my opinion, it would be better if you'd include the other patterns as options.
This is more of a personal request: I am normally used to MPC-HC's shader management. For instance I do always apply LumaSharpen, no matter if there is resizing or not. With madVR even though I can use profiles it gets complicated in this case. Because sometimes I watch videos downsized in windowed mode, which LumaSharpen does not apply unless it is pre-resize. And pre-resize and post-resize(upscale) applications of LumaSharpen is quite different from each other and requires additional fiddling. It would be nice if there would be an option to apply LumaSharpen always as post-resize.


Also just to inform, after version 0.88.2 NNEDI3 upscaling/doubling artifacts came back for my NVIDIA GTX690. If I remember correct it was a Kepler-specific bug in NVIDIA drivers which was fortunately fixed with the driver version 350.12. I tried downgrading madVR but the issue is still there.

[Anime Viewer]

About Jinc3 vs. Catmull-Rom: I've yet to see even a difference between Jinc3 vs *Bilinear*, when talking a replacement for chroma doubling. But if nobody can find any evidence for Jinc3 helping, then why allowing users to make a bad choice? Actually, it's not even that: Of course I could add just another setting to let users select the chroma doubling algorithm (e.g. Catmull-Rom or Jinc3), but really, I want to *reduce* the number of similar options, not increase them. The number of scaling options is already larger than I like. I will probably decrease them further at some point, too.

I agree. I see no difference between Jinc3 and Bilinear or any other scaling algorithm (other than DXVA2 which alters shading and color) when features like image doubling and enhancements like FineSharp and SuperRes are enabled. I am all for you eliminating upscaling, and other options (ex: certain dithering options, etc) that are no longer useful given new features implemented in madVR.

[huhn]

Also just to inform, after version 0.88.2 NNEDI3 upscaling/doubling artifacts came back for my NVIDIA GTX690. If I remember correct it was a Kepler-specific bug in NVIDIA drivers which was fortunately fixed with the driver version 350.12. I tried downgrading madVR but the issue is still there.

this bug isn't fixed. after installing madVR you just have to use the 32 bit version of madVr first and the bug will trigger if you start the 64 bit version first the bug will not trigger.

[huhn]

I agree. I see no difference between Jinc3 and Bilinear or any other scaling algorithm (other than DXVA2 which alters shading and color) when features like image doubling and enhancements like FineSharp and SuperRes are enabled. I am all for you eliminating upscaling, and other options (ex: certain dithering options, etc) that are no longer useful given new features implemented in madVR.

as far as i know DXVA is altered by settings in your GPU driver. and nvdia doesn't dither so you get a ton of banding.

[JPulowski]

this bug isn't fixed. after installing madVR you just have to use the 32 bit version of madVr first and the bug will trigger if you start the 64 bit version first the bug will not trigger.Just tested it and can confirm that it works. Thanks. :)

[Anime Viewer]

as far as i know DXVA is altered by settings in your GPU driver. and nvdia doesn't dither so you get a ton of banding.

Its possible its gamma as opposed to color itself that may be shifting, so I'll look in my Nvidia gamma settings to see if that is indeed what is happening. I haven't seem any increased banding in my testing as of yet...

[madshi]

I think it is the display (Samsung hu8550). When feeding RGB signal via HDMI, only 60Hz shows 10-bit image. However, if I change nVidia output to YCbCr, then I get 10-bit image at all refresh rates.
Ok. I would think twice about outputting YCbCr, though. It's better to output RGB. I'd suggest that you test in 60Hz 10bit vs 8bit (with dithering *enabled*), to find out if you can see any difference at all. Probably you won't see any difference, which means you can safely just stick to 8bit. Really, the 10bit mode is probably only useful for those very very few users who have a true native 10bit displays. 99.9% of today's displays are really only 8bit or less, and they dither internally.

but that's the problem i get tearing with 8.
and don't worry doesn't make any sense to me too...
Oh, I see. Somebody else had the same problem in Windows 10, and got rid of it by downgrading to a non WDDM-3.0 driver, or something like that. I think it was aufkrawall, IIRC?

Hi with version 88.x I get madvr crashes sometimes when opening or closing video files within potplayer. This only happens if I enable 'use Direct3D for presentation'. I have attached two crash files. This is easily reproducible.
You did also send me a crash report via email, right? So far I've not been able to reproduce the problem, unfortunately, but I'll try again later. This is probably a driver bug, but I can't say for sure right now.

Nope, its not a driver. I even did something I wanted to do in last 10 days - I upgraded Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 TP 10074. Problem remains.

Driver version is different on Windows 10, it 10.18.15.4124. It doesn't matter if I use 10bit, 8bit or usual 7bit output, MPC-HC or MPC-BE, x86 or x64.

************
Upgrading from Win 8.1 to Win 10 was not a good idea. It created some system instability (high CPU usage). I had to refomat so I decided to try with Windows 7. Problem remains.
Ouch. I'm sorry that you spent so much time with different OSs just to find out it didn't help at all. Unfortunately I don't know what to do. I can't reproduce the problem you have on my PC. And it seems nobody else has the same problem which you have. I've no clue why.

If it would be very easy for you, maybe you could create a short digicam video, showing the problem you're seeing? But don't bother if it would be hard for you to do.

Have created a tracker entry regarding the NV NNEDI3 quadrupling issue.
Thanks.

However, in the first post of this thread, it says:
"- no shortcuts, highest quality has priority over anything else"
which is not true anymore with that C-R chroma "shortcut". ;)
I could probably search for days and wouldn't find a (good) example for doing chroma scaling completely via Jinc3. But who knows, I already stumbled over nasty artifacts with NNEDI3 chroma scaling. If it didn't matter how chroma is scaled, you could remove everything instead of bilinear and C-R for it.
It's not impossible that pure Jinc3 scaling can look better than C-R, while the other way round is highly unlikely.

I think MPDN has a nice compromise with those quality templates.
I really want to have a maximum quality mode without any shortcuts, like promised in the first post. It's also about the impression of not educating or teaching users what is good for them and what is not.
When using NNEDI3 image doubling and quadrupling with each 64 neurons, I really don't care if rendering is 1-2% slower due to pure Jinc3 chroma scaling. It doesn't matter.
I could also use double float (64bit) for all madVR calculations and store all temp results in 32bit float. That would in theory increase the precision and exactness of madVR's rendering. But it wouldn't bring a visible improvement, and would slow down everything a lot.

The first page says "highest quality has priority over anything else", and that is still my goal. However, the point here is that I don't think that there's a visible difference between Catmull-Rom and Jinc for chroma doubling. The situation is different for chroma upscaling. There the difference is much bigger than for chroma doubling.

You won't get highest quality by using the most expensive algorithm for every part of the processing pipeline. You will get highest quality by spending your GPU for algorithms which make a difference. Instead of worrying about chroma doubling, have a look at FineSharp and SuperRes.

Look, I could have hidden what I'm doing. I could just have said nothing and hidden the Catmull-Rom information from the OSD. Nobody would ever have known. There are many such things hidden in various places. Not only in madVR, but also in MPDN. E.g. NEDI falls back to Lanczos *without* AR. Or SuperRes for chroma upsampling uses bilinear upscaling to upscale the error. These are fixed parts of the algorithms and no global setting in MPDN or madVR influences that. I guess you might call this "shortcut", but I think it only qualifies as a shortcut in a negative way if it ends up being visible. If I used the most expensive algorithms everywhere, madVR would be 5 times slower than it is now, and you wouldn't see the tiniest difference in quality. It's all about spending the GPU power wisely, so you have some left for algorithms which do make a visible difference.

But I'm willing to bow to the majority. What does everybody else say? Should I "allow" Jinc3 to be used for chroma doubling? Instead of blocking it and using Catmull-Rom instead?

Also just to inform, after version 0.88.2 NNEDI3 upscaling/doubling artifacts came back for my NVIDIA GTX690. If I remember correct it was a Kepler-specific bug in NVIDIA drivers which was fortunately fixed with the driver version 350.12. I tried downgrading madVR but the issue is still there.
Nothing I can do about it.

BTW, I double checked and my version of LumaSharpen is identical to that from version 1.5.0, except that my code also has an optional experimental limiter in it. And I'm using the "best" pattern which is available in either 1.4.1 or 1.5.0, which is pattern 3.

-------

I've done some digging and hacking and raping Direct3D, I think I have the refresh rate problems sorted out. Give this build a try:

http://madshi.net/madVR885refreshRateFix.zip

Should work for D3D9 and D3D11 now, and also for 64bit. Once again, I've spent a lot of time to fix Microsoft's stupidity. They actually *intentionally* use 59.940Hz (23.976Hz) even if you ask for 60.000Hz (24.000Hz). There's no way to convince Direct3D to use 60.000 (24.000), except by going behind their back and twisting and binding their fingers, like I've done. I wonder if there's any other software besides madVR which can switch FSE mode to 24.000/60.000? I kinda doubt it...

[pirlouy]

Dude, I hope I wont ruin your day/night, but it does not work for me. It still switches to 59 when entering FullScreen.
Let's hope it's only me. xD

[MS-DOS]

What does everybody else say? Should I "allow" Jinc3 to be used for chroma doubling? Instead of blocking it and using Catmull-Rom instead?

Someone suggested a trade quality option, it could be a good way to please placeboquality maniacs without sacrificing the speed for everyone else.
I'm fine with CR. Not sure if its much faster than, say, Lanc3AR though.

[Fullmetal Encoder]

But I'm willing to bow to the majority. What does everybody else say? Should I "allow" Jinc3 to be used for chroma doubling?

I think you should use your best judgment on such matters. But I appreciate that you let us know what you are doing so that so that in some of these cases we can compare the different algorithms used on different content. I think that's important for educating ourselves on the real world value of what we're using.

[huhn]

But I'm willing to bow to the majority. What does everybody else say? Should I "allow" Jinc3 to be used for chroma doubling? Instead of blocking it and using Catmull-Rom instead?

i know content where nnedi3 chroma upsampling does have a very huge effect... pixel art computer games. but i don't think that matters.

leave it as it is i wouldn't waste power on such a thing.

[madshi]

Dude, I hope I wont ruin your day/night, but it does not work for me. It still switches to 59 when entering FullScreen.
Let's hope it's only me. xD
Did it ever work for you, in D3D9, I mean?

i know content where nnedi3 chroma upsampling does have a very huge effect... pixel art computer games. but i don't think that matters.
FWIW, NNEDI3 is still supported for chroma upsampling, just not for chroma doubling. Could you test that pixel art games for quality differences between 1) v0.87.21 NNEDI3 chroma doubling 2) v0.87.21 Jinc3 AR chroma doubling 3) Catmull-Rom AR chroma doubling?

[huhn]

FWIW, NNEDI3 is still supported for chroma upsampling, just not for chroma doubling. Could you test that pixel art games for quality differences between 1) v0.87.21 NNEDI3 chroma doubling 2) v0.87.21 Jinc3 AR chroma doubling 3) Catmull-Rom AR chroma doubling?

sorry should be more clear. even quadrupling has a huge effect compared to jinc or other resizer.
so i'm talking about the even more demanding setting like the usually total over kill called NNEDI3 chroma doubling.
it's a 320x200 pixel art game stored in RGB not a real source.

[AngelGraves13]

Seeking is problematic unless pre-rendered frames are set to Application.

[aufkrawall]

I could also use double float (64bit) for all madVR calculations and store all temp results in 32bit float. That would in theory increase the precision and exactness of madVR's rendering. But it wouldn't bring a visible improvement, and would slow down everything a lot.

I'm not exactly sure if this is a good comparison... :devil:


The first page says "highest quality has priority over anything else", and that is still my goal. However, the point here is that I don't think that there's a visible difference between Catmull-Rom and Jinc for chroma doubling. The situation is different for chroma upscaling. There the difference is much bigger than for chroma doubling.

Good point.
Btw: How'd I use chroma doubling with 0.87? Testing with 4:2:2 content? If yes, this is way too much effort.


You will get highest quality by spending your GPU for algorithms which make a difference.

Yes, but afaik, C-R is hardly better in any situation compared to Jinc3.


Instead of worrying about chroma doubling, have a look at FineSharp and SuperRes.

SuperRes for luma is tempting.
However, I'd really like to have a deblocking filter because sharpening can make the blocking way too obtrusive.

I know this may seem like a fuss about nothing, but I still think this optimization can make much sense for slow GPUs, but not for fast ones.
Maxwell was a huge boost for HTPC and 16nm GPUs are probably not very far either.

[madshi]

sorry should be more clear. even quadrupling has a huge effect compared to jinc or other resizer.
so i'm talking about the even more demanding setting like the usually total over kill called NNEDI3 chroma doubling.
it's a 320x200 pixel art game stored in RGB not a real source.
Luma quadrupling yes. But chroma doubling/quadrupling? I'd like to see a comparison screenshot.

Does the test build fix the refresh rate problem for you?

With D3D11 Presentation enabled, seeking in MP4 files causes the video to skip in a loop. Disabling it fixes it.
I doubt that it has to do with MP4 files.

[AngelGraves13]

Luma quadrupling yes. But chroma doubling/quadrupling? I'd like to see a comparison screenshot.

Does the test build fix the refresh rate problem for you?


I doubt that it has to do with MP4 files.

Fixed by setting Pre-rendered frames to Application instead of 1 in NVIDIA Control Panel.

[mark0077]

madshi, this is a question, not specifically related to the newer versions of madVR so absolutely no priority in a reply to this (FYI using the latest 0.88.5 version)

I just got a GTX 980 and have it overclocked as much as I can push it, so I have been experimenting with NNEDI 32 neurons for image doubling / quadrupling. Quadrupling seems to be working fine at 32 neurons on very low resolution files. I'm now testing of a movie which is 1280 x 720, so to get to 1920 x 1080 I can see the following is being used in Ctrl-J stats

chroma > Jinc3 AR
luma > Nnedi32 < Catmull-Rom AR
chroma > Catmull-Rom AR

This seems to be alot more demanding than the quadrupling of the lower resolution files, which is fine, so in gpu-z I can see GPU Load hitting ~90% but my question is.

I don't see any dropped frames, delayed frames or presentation glitches, however the queues are as follows

decoder queue 15-16 / 16
upload queue 7-8 / 8
render queue 1-2 / 8
present queue 0-2 / 8

My question is, although I know my gpu is literally at its absolute limits, how come some of the queues seem full, while others are nearly empty all the time, yet my gpu isn't under enough pressure to drop frames. Absolutely very low priority question, just thought it was worth mentioning as I'm not sure if the render and present queues not being full in this scenario may be something madVR is controlling and could potentially be improved to have them more full seeing as frames aren't being dropped.