madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Soukyuu]

I'd highly recommend not getting an ATI card in your laptop since you're buying a new one anyways. What you've read about ATI's driver's not being as stable as NVidia's is true based on personal experience.

I have a laptop with an ATI Mobility GPU 4570 from 2009 and built a desktop with an nvidia card and the difference in driver stability is clear.

Just my 2 cents.Considering how nVidia drivers have been behaving lately, that might not necessarily be true anymore. To be honest, my AMD based htpc runs without any worries with the stock drivers, while my current PC with an nVidia gpu often suffers driver crashes. And then there is that story with 320.18 driver causing blank screens or burning GPUs, and it's not the first time this happens.

For AMD, I'd say the biggest problem is to find a driver version that works for your setup, and it's not necessarily the newest one. So in my experience, it's pretty comparable to nVidia, I'm still using the 306.97 drivers for more stability.

[noee]

I'd highly recommend not getting an ATI card in your laptop since you're buying a new one anyways. What you've read about ATI's driver's not being as stable as NVidia's is true based on personal experience.

I have a laptop with an ATI Mobility GPU 4570 from 2009 and built a desktop with an nvidia card and the difference in driver stability is clear.

Just my 2 cents.

I disagree. I have two Toshiba APU laptops that work great with madVR (using the latest Toshiba-supplied drivers) and I have two HTPC systems currently using HD6570 and HD7750 and they are both flawless with the Onkyo/LG combo (HDMI).

The late 12 series and the newer 13 series drivers on AMD are rock-solid with madVR.

[DragonQ]

Considering how nVidia drivers have been behaving lately, that might not necessarily be true anymore. To be honest, my AMD based htpc runs without any worries with the stock drivers, while my current PC with an nVidia gpu often suffers driver crashes. And then there is that story with 320.18 driver causing blank screens or burning GPUs, and it's not the first time this happens.
Plus the fact that a bug was introduced in an nVidia driver about 4 years ago that is yet to be fixed, which causes some Source games to crash randomly when using DX10 cards. :(

[nevcairiel]

Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. In my personal experience, AMD/ATI has caused more issues with their drivers then NVIDIA, especially for HTPC usage. But then i also usually run recent hardware, which drivers are usually more optimized for. My HTPC has been running just perfectly with NVIDIA, while i had some minor issues with an AMD card i used for a few month, until NVIDIA released a new generation.

But does that prove that NVIDIA drivers are better? Probably not. All i know is that the HW decoder in AMDs cards is inferior to NVIDIA (both in speed and features, eg. even in latest generations a driver had to disable 4K decoding on AMD because it was broken), but if that matters for you is only something you can decide.

[DragonQ]

Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. In my personal experience, AMD/ATI has caused more issues with their drivers then NVIDIA, especially for HTPC usage. But then i also usually run recent hardware, which drivers are usually more optimized for. My HTPC has been running just perfectly with NVIDIA, while i had some minor issues with an AMD card i used for a few month, until NVIDIA released a new generation.

But does that prove that NVIDIA drivers are better? Probably not. All i know is that the HW decoder in AMDs cards is inferior to NVIDIA (both in speed and features, eg. even in latest generations a driver had to disable 4K decoding on AMD because it was broken), but if that matters for you is only something you can decide.
Agreed. I haven't had any driver-related issues with my HTPC as far as I know, which uses nVidia. I just have a grudge against nVidia for that 4-year-and-counting bug. :devil:

[psousa]

what i really want know is if CUDA from nvidia make lot of diference with madVR. the hd5650m have a decent performance for a laptop gpu (6700 points in 3dmark06),will not be good enought for madVR?

btw i only see 1080p movies and 720p series on a panasonic 46G20. as far i understand madVR will upscale the 720p series to 1080p right?

[bugmen0t]

Hi madshi!
I just watched a movie a few minutes with OSD on and found several times where for about 30 sec the max rendering time was about half the average rendering time. Never seen this before as far as I can remember. Is that normal or is it maybe a bug?

[leeperry]

My 2007 LG 720p (1024x768 rectangular pixels) still ouputs 4:2:2 even with PIP active (OTA HDTV channel in the PIP)... so not sure what your Sammy is doing

Well, from what I've read 4:2:0 is really supposed to be a jaggy feast....I still kinda think that HDMI and SD TV run in 4:2:2 and HD in 4:4:4, reason why forcing SD PIP remains 4:2:2 and HD PIP goes 4:4:4. That's what the original test pattern showed anyway :o

But I didn't run any harcore A/B comparisons and being colorblind, I'm hopeless without a colorimeter.

Maybe more people can testproof this pattern and once a consensus will have been found, madshi can add it to the first page :)

[6233638]

Well, from what I've read 4:2:0 is really supposed to be a jaggy feast....I still kinda think that HDMI and SD TV run in 4:2:2 and HD in 4:4:4, reason why forcing SD PIP remains 4:2:2 and HD PIP goes 4:4:4. That's what the original test pattern showed anyway :oYou can only use these patterns when displayed using 1:1 mapping. If your display is scaling from SD, the results are invalid.

I would expect chroma resolution to drop (if anything) when you enable PIP rather than improving.

4:2:0 will only appear very aliased when it's displayed natively.
Most of these displays will only be processing in 4:2:0 (discarding chroma resolution) and then upsampling it - the issue is that most displays do a poor job of the upsampling, and some sources (e.g. computer graphics/games) are 4:4:4 native.
For example: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1162100/the-official-pioneer-9g-north-american-krp-500m-krp-600m-owners-discussion-pt-ii/6200_100#post_20822997

Processing in 4:2:0 results in very soft, blurred chroma, not aliased chroma.

[leeperry]

Well, I was hoping for a firmware bug considering that your previous test pattern appeared fine :o

Apparently 4:2:0 is really fubar: http://www.ntt-electronics.com/en/products/video/products/codec_system_solutions/hv9100/picture-quality-of-cascaded-video-codec.html

I can see how 4:4:4 might be considered overkill for displaying 4:2:0 YV12 sources and why some(many?) TV sets save money by processing in 4:2:2: http://www.5dfilmmaking.com/tut_444.htm

PS: OK, case closed (http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy352/floatpoo/444_faq/tint-blue-rgb-1080p.png): whatever I do in "movie" mode, red blue and magenta never look as sharp as the others.

Actually, the darn thing can go 4:4:4(even with PIP enabled) if I rename the input to "PC" but then no more BFI & REC.709 gamut..

[psousa]

maybe you guys already know this, but i find avsforum 4:4:4 topic great.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread

[e-t172]

I believe I am seeing jerky motion while watching a telecine'd TV recording from Showtime with LAV + madVR IVTC + madVR smooth motion (30i IVTC → 24p → 60Hz smooth motion).

Does anyone happen to know a good IVTC motion test file so that I can try to reproduce that more reliably and try to find out if my file is bad, or the timestamps from LAV are bad, or madVR IVTC is bad?

[Pat357]

I believe I am seeing jerky motion while watching a IVTC'd TV recording from Showtime with LAV + madVR IVTC + madVR smooth motion (30i IVTC → 24p → 60Hz smooth motion).

Does anyone happen to know a good IVTC motion test file so that I can try to reproduce that more reliably and try to find out if my file is bad, or the timestamps from LAV are bad, or madVR IVTC is bad?

First important question : does MavdVR detect & show the 3:2 cadence on OSD without too much "cadence breaks" ?

Second : did you disable the build in "Telecine processing" from the GPU ? If it's enabled, it can interfere with the MadVR IVTC.

Third : is maybe a typo from you, but I'm not sure : are you sure your TV recording is already IVTC'd ? Then you can't really IVTC it again : obviously only Telecine sources can be IVTC'd !

Fourth : is your TV source soft Telecine'd or hard Telecine'd or maybe even mixed soft/hard Telecine'd ?

[e-t172]

First important question : does MavdVR detect & show the 3:2 cadence on OSD without too much "cadence breaks" ?

The cadence is properly detected, and there are zero cadence breaks.

Second : did you disable the build in "Telecine processing" from the GPU ? If it's enabled, it can interfere with the MadVR IVTC.

Irrelevant. I'm not using any GPU video processing (no DXVA, no CUVID, and madVR is doing the rendering).

Third : is maybe a typo from you, but I'm not sure : are you sure your TV recording is already IVTC'd ? Then you can't really IVTC it again : obviously only Telecine sources can be IVTC'd !

Ah, yes, sorry for the confusion. Of course I meant the original file is telecined, and I am trying to IVTC it using madVR.

Fourth : is your TV source soft Telecine'd or hard Telecine'd or maybe even mixed soft/hard Telecine'd ?

No idea. Probably a mix since it's a TV broadcast (I'm not sure how clean the Showtime broadcast is), but AFAIK madVR is supposed to be able to handle all kinds of crazy soft/hard telecine mixes.

[dansrfe]

madVR requires film mode to be manually selected prior to video playback in order to properly apply smooth motion with the current release. I think madshi will update this later to work on-the-fly with keyboard shortcuts as expected.

[e-t172]

Not sure what you mean. Currently I have "disable automatic source type detection" checked, "force film mode" checked, and "enable smooth motion only if there would be motion judder without it" checked. When I play the video, the OSD says "film mode, cadence 3:2" and "smooth motion on". What do you think I should do exactly?

Note that bug 113 (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=113) doesn't seem to apply to me, since smooth motion is enabled according to the OSD. It just doesn't seem to work well.

[dansrfe]

Not sure what you mean. Currently I have "disable automatic source type detection" checked, "force film mode" checked, and "enable smooth motion only if there would be motion judder without it" checked. When I play the video, the OSD says "film mode, cadence 3:2" and "smooth motion on". What do you think I should do exactly?

Note that bug 113 (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=113) doesn't seem to apply to me, since smooth motion is enabled according to the OSD. It just doesn't seem to work well.

Well, if you've already done that then I'm out of ideas. :/ Are you using Reclock, by any chance? Sometimes it doesn't pick up the correct refresh rate for IVTC'd material depending on the source content.

[e-t172]

I'm not using ReClock.

What I'm really looking for is some hard/soft telecine 1080i30 motion test files so that I can try to reproduce this thing in isolation.

[Luv]

How is it that nobody ever speaks about the Intel decoders? The MPEG2 one is now my default and I just tried the H.264,and it works like a charm (x.264,1080i,blu-ray)?

Errr,Madshi:

Intel Media SDK 2013 R2
http://software.intel.com/fr-fr/forums/topic/356800

[dansrfe]

Is there a way to make txt subtitles respect the video/3D LUT? Or is this a limitation of MPC-HC's subtitle renderer?

[tschi]

hi,
I have a A/V receiver (denon 4311) with two HDMI outputs (TV, Videoprojector) linked to ATI 5770 graphics cards (hdmi ->hdmi) .
madVR can not detect which device is used (I guess it's a normal situation). is there a way to switch between several devices (I don't see any shortcut). I can create a new device in preferences but I can not tell to madVR to use it. I would like to use different PC/TV levels and 3dlut for each display linked to AV Receiver.

Thanks !

[kasper93]

Is there a way to make txt subtitles respect the video/3D LUT? Or is this a limitation of MPC-HC's subtitle renderer?

It's not a limitation of the sub renderer. MPC-HC doesn't support any kind of the 3DLUT. You can use XySubFilter (not sure if 3dlut is applied to text subs, it should be) or just use VSfilter like renderer which will add subtitles to video frame before it reach madVR

[Yvese]

Hi. I have a 144hz monitor ( ASUS VG248QE ) and was wondering if this refresh rate is supposed to reduce/eliminate motion judder due to it being a multiple of 24p. I'm mainly watching anime atm and I used this guide (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=516729) to set up MPC-HC and MadVR ( I'm using the highest preset in the guide for scaling )

Sadly, motion judder is still existent and is even worse now since Smooth Motion appears to not work at 120hz. I was wondering if anyone could help me with this and whether or not I'm missing something.

Specs are: 2600k @ 4.5ghz with a radeon 7950.

[webs0r]

Hi. I have a 144hz monitor ( ASUS VG248QE ) and was wondering if this refresh rate is supposed to reduce/eliminate motion judder due to it being a multiple of 24p. I'm mainly watching anime atm and I used this guide (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=516729) to set up MPC-HC and MadVR ( I'm using the highest preset in the guide for scaling )

Sadly, motion judder is still existent and is even worse now since Smooth Motion appears to not work at 120hz. I was wondering if anyone could help me with this and whether or not I'm missing something.

Specs are: 2600k @ 4.5ghz with a radeon 7950.

I would run at 120 Hz and turn smooth motion off. No benefit to smooth motion in madVR when the refresh rate is an exact multiple of the source; it should be perfect for you already.

If judder persists in this case it must be the source.

[huhn]

i got a vg248 too.

make sure windows aero uses composition rate 120 hz. that hard some times else use fullscreen exlusive mode.

you can put smoothmotion on always if you like. you shouldn't be able too see the ghosting in 120 hz but the frame repeat every ~42 sec is gone.

use lightboost : http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/
this reduce motion blur a little in 24hz and it nearly completely eliminate on true 120 hz content

and try 1 of these icc profiles : http://pcmonitors.info/reviews/asus-vg248qe

[nonob]

Hi,
Sorry if the answer is somewhere in the 994 pages ;)
Can i use dxva with madvr and mpchc on Windows XP ?

Thanks

[wanezhiling]

No, madVR only supports DXVA2.0 which is not available on WinXP.

[nonob]

Thanks for your quick replie :)

[Mercury_22]

Does a gtx 650 Ti makes any difference over a gtx 650 for madVR ?

[wanezhiling]

GTX 650: GK107 (384CUDA, 32TMUs, 16ROPs), 1058/5000MHz, GDDR5, 128bit, 812.54GFLOPS
GTX 650 Ti: GK106 (768CUDA, 64TMUs, 16ROPs), 928/5400MHz, GDDR5, 128bit, 1425.41GFLOPS

I will choose 650 Ti without any hesitation. :)

[Mercury_22]

GTX 650: GK107 (384CUDA, 32TMUs, 16ROPs), 1058/5000MHz, GDDR5, 128bit, 812.54GFLOPS
GTX 650 Ti: GK106 (768CUDA, 64TMUs, 16ROPs), 928/5400MHz, GDDR5, 128bit, 1425.41GFLOPS

I will choose 650 Ti without any hesitation. :)

Thanks for your answer.
So you're saying that for madvr the difference will be obvious ?

P.S. I'm interested if it's a difference only from madVR's standpoint, not for other apps / programs (e.g. gaming) :)

[wanezhiling]

So you're saying that for madvr the difference will be obvious ?

I think so.

768 VS 384
already enough :)

[leeperry]

There were some test results posted earlier and the 650Ti is barely fast enough for 60fps 720p or 1440*1080 to 1080p using Jinc3AR for both chroma & luma IIRC, and there's always the possibility that madshi would come up with an even more demanding scaler than Jinc. Of course if you can make do with a less power hungry scaler, then the 650 will more than likely be OK. I think a good buy would be the 650Ti Boost(essentially a slightly slower 660) but it's more or less selling for the price of the 660(at least in Europe). I've seen the Asus 660 selling for 145€ shipped, it's dead silent.....I'm currently waiting for the sale to be renewed so I can pull the trigger :D

[Mercury_22]

Thanks for your help guys ! My main "problem" is if gtx 650Ti it's worth to give up of a passive cooled card (= gtx650), I mean do I get an increase in PQ worth that ?


P.S. Taking in consideration usual usage = Blu-ray or 720@29->1080 at most Cause let's face it 60fps it's just for testing or some "exotic" :) encodes

[leeperry]

Well, 29.97@59.94fps deinterlaced 1440*1080 and the 650Ti will stutter with J3AR.

[Mercury_22]

Well, 29.97@59.94fps deinterlaced 1440*1080 and the 650Ti will stutter with J3AR.

Ouch Can't remember that happening with my HD7770 Well thanks for the info !

[DragonQ]

If a card can do 1440x1080i with the settings you want it should be fine for all other situations.

P.S. Taking in consideration usual usage = Blu-ray or 720@29->1080 at most Cause let's face it 60fps it's just for testing or some "exotic" :) encodes
It always annoys me that internet releases are so rarely 50 or 60 fps. A show that I download (not on TV in the UK) is shot at 1080i/30, yet all encodes I have except one are 720p/30. One is 720p/60 and is the same file size as all the others - it looks great and doesn't suffer any additional artefacting or anything. So why not use it all the time? :(

[Yvese]

I would run at 120 Hz and turn smooth motion off. No benefit to smooth motion in madVR when the refresh rate is an exact multiple of the source; it should be perfect for you already.

If judder persists in this case it must be the source.Yea it's off at 120hz.

Not sure why it's still juddering really. A lot of the anime I watch is 720/1080p 10-bit so maybe that has something to do with it?

If anyone else here watches anime, I use Durarara!!'s first ED to test the juddering. At 120hz it's really bad. However, if I enable display mode switching to 60hz with smooth motion on, the judder is reduced.

I'm stumped :(

[dansrfe]

Yea it's off at 120hz.

Not sure why it's still juddering really. A lot of the anime I watch is 720/1080p 10-bit so maybe that has something to do with it?

If anyone else here watches anime, I use Durarara!!'s first ED to test the juddering. At 120hz it's really bad. However, if I enable display mode switching to 60hz with smooth motion on, the judder is reduced.

I'm stumped :(

If you post a sample then I can test it on my 120Hz monitor and see if I can reproduce the issue.

[Yvese]

If you post a sample then I can test it on my 120Hz monitor and see if I can reproduce the issue.I don't know how to properly encode so I found a raw and uploaded it to RS: http://rapidshare.com/files/1673097862/%5BRUELL-Raws%5D%20DURARARA!!%20NCED1%20(BD%201920x1080%20x264%20FLAC).mkv


Hopefully the link works.

[Guest]

I don't know how to properly encode so I found a raw and uploaded it to RS: http://rapidshare.com/files/1673097862/%5BRUELL-Raws%5D%20DURARARA!!%20NCED1%20(BD%201920x1080%20x264%20FLAC).mkv What do you mean by you "found a raw" and where did you find it?

[Yvese]

What do you mean by you "found a raw" and where did you find it?Raw means it has no subs and not encoded to a lower size.

As for where I found it - torrent which is where most anime is found since very few get dubbed and we have to rely on fansubbers to view them.

Was I not supposed to post that?

[Guest]

Raw means it has no subs and not encoded to a lower size.

As for where I found it - torrent which is where most anime is found since very few get dubbed and we have to rely on fansubbers to view them.

Was I not supposed to post that? That's correct. You cannot discuss torrent downloads here. Read the forum rules. If you do it again, you will get strikes.

@all

No help to be given for this issue.

[tschi]

hi,
I have a A/V receiver (denon 4311) with two HDMI outputs (TV, Videoprojector) linked to ATI 5770 graphics cards (hdmi ->hdmi) .
madVR can not detect which device is used (I guess it's a normal situation). is there a way to switch between several devices (I don't see any shortcut). I can create a new device in preferences but I can not tell to madVR to use it. I would like to use different PC/TV levels and 3dlut for each display linked to AV Receiver.

Thanks !
Ok, I found the "Output device" tab in order to switch between device :o
Anyway, is it possible to add the a keyboard shortcut to switch easily ?
Thanks.

[Plutotype]

Just tested Intel HD4000 and a I5-3427U ( Ultrabook ) and everything went ok beside one thing: seeking in the timeline with smooth motion on ( 24fps @60hz ) leads to frame repeats and flickering.
Latest madVR/MPC-HC (LAV), Reclock and Intel HD Graphics 15.31.17.3257. Will test HD4400 in a couple of weeks. Nothing crucial, but AMD5670 works without any similar issues.

[e-t172]

Just tested Intel HD4000 and a I5-3427U ( Ultrabook ) and everything went ok beside one thing: seeking in the timeline with smooth motion on ( 24fps @60hz ) leads to frame repeats and flickering.

Make sure you have the "use a separate device for presentation" option on.

[ryrynz]

Not so sure that would be the cause, I disable 'use a separate device' on my HD Graphics 4000 & 3000 and and have never had that problem, sounds more like the queue sizes should be increased.

[psousa]

i tested my panasonic G20 and it only do 4:2:2. need to set anything special to use madVR on 4:2:2 tv? i have this configuration to see movies: laptop (with hd5650m) -> denon 2309 (receiver) -> panasonic 46G20.

[Qaq]

i tested my panasonic G20 and it only do 4:2:2. need to set anything special to use madVR on 4:2:2 tv?
I'd try to set both video driver and TV to YCbCr 4:4:4. This way madVR's RGB 444 will be converted to YCC 444 and not to YCC 422.

[QBhd]

I'd try to set both video driver and TV to YCbCr 4:4:4. This way madVR's RGB 444 will be converted to YCC 444 and not to YCC 422.

I would highly disagree with that (Maybe some with more authority can chime in). As far as I know, the TV will be outputting RGB 4:2:2 so it's best to leave your GPU driver to output RGB 4:4:4 and have everything flow down the chain from the renderer at RGB 4:4:4 and let the TV do it's final work on the image (preferably at it's native resolution).

QB