madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[SamuriHL]

hi please can you post a link to NEOXP's settings, its impossible to find anything in that thread, the main page is never updated with the lastest madvr version either which is also annoying as there doesnt seem to be a beta link on MADSHIs web site either.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/post-60250637

That's his latest.


And that's why I joke recently about "direcror's intent", if something is out in DV then you have to watch it that way. That's the closest we can get :) Everything else is BS.

Are you sure about that, though? I know you were mostly joking but the idea that DV is somehow superior or "closer to director's intent" is certainly debateable. That assumes that the director graded it or had some oversight on it. And it assumes that your chosen DV display perfectly tone maps. And yes, DV is still tone mapping, only with "dynamic metadata". Who's to say that's better? madshi has said in the past he doesn't think so, although he wishes he could have the 12 bit video to use. To be sure, DV is better implemented than HDR on our LG screens. But I question whether it's drastically superior. It's still tone mapping since these displays are nit limited. Which is another reason I refuse to replace my display. Why trade one low nit display for another? i want a 4000 nit display. Then we can limit tone mapping to anything between 4001 and 10000. Ultimately, we want to get out of the tone mapping game altogehter.

[el Filou]

There's a range between "100% identical to the grading monitor" and "100% bullshit", though. The goal is to try to approach the former rather than do totally random stuff, and it's commendable.

[SamuriHL]

Exactly. One of the things madvr does (or attempts to do) which is commendable in its approach is to attempt to not introduce artifacts. That's important because almost all tone mapping by definition is going to be a compromise. Look at LG's dynamic tone mapping solution...it screws with brightness. That's just one example. madvr attempts to compress into the allocated nit range while not messing up the picture. That's admirable.

[tp4tissue]

If you look in the Dolby Vision manual, (paraphrasing) it only stipulates the final grade get a (cursory) look over on an LG Oled. No other tv, nothing else. The LG isn't used for grading, it's just an -in case something goes horribly wrong-

So, that's the limitation of Dolby vision as it applies to Director's Intent on consumer side, which is to say, Equally Bullshit.

Again, I like madvr's rendition, I'm fine with Neoxp, I only wanted to know if we doing Big ears on a mouse. I intended no disparagement.

But if he's using a 400nit screen, maybe that's why it looks good on my setup because I clamp my screen to 330 nits, beyond that (LCD) black level becomes unacceptable. I'm using a 6500:1 contrast panel.

[SamuriHL]

I mean you can't really know if you're getting director's intent when tone mapping of any kind is applied. You're taking something that's meant for a very high nit display and compressing it into a range that's far smaller. By definition, you're now changing the director's intent else they would have mastered it into a lower nit range. So the best you can hope for is what madshi is trying to achieve.

[jkauff]

Directors also are not always color experts (and in fact could be color-blind). Was it LOTR that picked up a greenish cast when the Blu-ray was released? And no one noticed until it was out in circulation?

The Technicolor contract included a requirement that a Technicolor color coordinator be on the crew to make sure the heavily saturated colors were right. Natalie Kalmus is the name you see most often in the early films. She was married to Herbert Kalmus, who invented the technology.

[Alexkral]

I mean you can't really know if you're getting director's intent when tone mapping of any kind is applied.
That's correct, but things like dynamic target nits tend to make all scenes look similarly bright. This is clearly not the director intent. Neither Dolby Vision nor HDR10+ do anything like that. I can understand that it's probably a must for projectors, but I wouldn't use it with a 400 nit screen. In the end it seems that madshi is determined to get the most detail out of each scene, both in the shadows and in the highlights, which makes the scenes look good but with less differences between them. That's OK with me, but it seems to contradict his claiming of a correct and scientific rendering. If the shadow details are hidden on the mastering monitor, they should stay that way.

[mclingo]

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/post-60250637

That's his latest.



Are you sure about that, though? I know you were mostly joking but the idea that DV is somehow superior or "closer to director's intent" is certainly debateable. That assumes that the director graded it or had some oversight on it. And it assumes that your chosen DV display perfectly tone maps. And yes, DV is still tone mapping, only with "dynamic metadata". Who's to say that's better? madshi has said in the past he doesn't think so, although he wishes he could have the 12 bit video to use. To be sure, DV is better implemented than HDR on our LG screens. But I question whether it's drastically superior. It's still tone mapping since these displays are nit limited. Which is another reason I refuse to replace my display. Why trade one low nit display for another? i want a 4000 nit display. Then we can limit tone mapping to anything between 4001 and 10000. Ultimately, we want to get out of the tone mapping game altogehter.

Thanks, they work great for me but I set my nits at 400 too match my panel instead of 150

[Siso]

I installed win 10 pro a day ago, and I had noticed something in the nvidia control panel, should I enable these options for madvr. I'm attaching screencaps.
https://imgbox.com/u3wf1pqR
https://imgbox.com/CxIgvAQp

[huhn]

the first screen just show the output setting which you should set up if you know what they need to be.

the second is completely irrelevant for madVR just leave it to the player.

[Siso]

the first screen just show the output setting which you should set up if you know what they need to be.

the second is completely irrelevant for madVR just leave it to the player.

In win 7 in the first screenshot, they were "use nvidia color settings". So I guess I'll have to select this option, right?

[huhn]

sorry i can't follow you this didn't change as far as i know maybe the default values are different.

but you set it nvidia color setting and if your device supports it correctly full range RGB with the highest bit deep that works correctly (if in doubt 8 bit if you see no difference 8 bit.)

[Siso]

sorry i can't follow you this didn't change as far as i know maybe the default values are different.

but you set it nvidia color setting and if your device supports it correctly full range RGB with the highest bit deep that works correctly (if in doubt 8 bit if you see no difference 8 bit.)

The monitor is 8 bit. I'll enable nvidia color settings. I have no idea why win 10 didn't enable them by default.

[IngramAU]

Why can't MadVR handle custom res on more recently Nvidia drivers? I've tried the 113 beta and latest drivers. Have to stick with drivers from May that still work. I'd like to install the just now released drivers for CP2077 but not if I can't have custom res.

[huhn]

not sure why madVR should be the issue here.
but you can just try your luck with CRU.

[mikahawkins1]

It is certainly better than RGB conversion.

[IngramAU]

not sure why madVR should be the issue here.
but you can just try your luck with CRU.

Not sure either it has been the case since May, perhaps there's a more revent driver that works but I'm not playing that game to find out.

Whenever I try to save a custom res it says the GPU rejected for unknown reasons.

I had a look at CRU but I have no idea what to do to fix it.

[glc650]

Not sure either it has been the case since May, perhaps there's a more revent driver that works but I'm not playing that game to find out.

Whenever I try to save a custom res it says the GPU rejected for unknown reasons.

I had a look at CRU but I have no idea what to do to fix it.
Before I could use madVR's custom modes I had to use CRU to remove all TV related resolution/refresh rate combos. I used this guide to do so: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1895131&postcount=528

Then I was able to add them all back via madVR custom modes. I followed this guide: http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html

Only then (and after playing back enough content) was I able to use the custom modes to eliminate frame repeats/drops during playback for all refresh rates. In fact, I was able to get 23, 24, 25 and 29 fully optimized and 59 essentially full optimized at 3.5+ days. In order to change the timings on those with optimization data available I often had to hit the reset gpu button before applying the new timings (and often after failing to apply new timings without hitting the button) otherwise it would say it took affect even though it didn't (when it actually works the asterisk will move to the res that you just applied timings to). Also, you can't change timings on the active res/refresh rate (so you may have to disable res switching or just be aware of which video files you launch when navigating to madVR settings.

When you are done, you will notice in the nvidia settings a bunch of added custom resolutions including dupes (24 added twice). This is another indication that it worked.

[IngramAU]

Thank you I will have a look at the guides. I have tried just now to do it with 460.79 and it's the same issue. Even using the Nvidia custom res does not work so it's likely not a MadVR issue.

[QBhd]

I love seeing my content being useful :P

Funny thing for me though... I don't even use custom resolutions anymore. I now use PotPlayer's built-in WASAPI renderer and just leave all the default EDID resolutions in... I just got tired of "chasing the dragon" so to speak :)

QB

[IngramAU]

I have never had to chase the dragon once I activate custom res for 23.976 and let it optimize I have zero drop or repeats. I only need to optimize 23.976 as all the other refresh rates "just work."

Looking into CRU atm it seems there's no data for 23.976. Either way I will follow your guide and delete the lot. I shall report back.

EDIT: You bloody beauty! It works! Thanks so much! Now I can play CP2077 with optimised drivers AND enjoy my films with no drops :D

Thank you!

[VBB]

With Nvidia's recent change in timings, I feel like there isn't a need for custom resolutions anymore. We now get a single frame drop/repeat per 1.05 hours at 23.976 Hz. I can live with that, and I'm major OCD ;)

[traykov77]

I get drop frames when start movie and when set on pause, after begin again. I use pot player and default renderer for dts-hd and dolby true hd. Is it normal?

[Asmodian]

Yes, that always happens. If you hit ctrl-r to reset the stats after starting playback you can track frames dropped while playing, when they matter.

There are often dropped frames after seeking as well.

[glc650]

I love seeing my content being useful :P

Funny thing for me though... I don't even use custom resolutions anymore. I now use PotPlayer's built-in WASAPI renderer and just leave all the default EDID resolutions in... I just got tired of "chasing the dragon" so to speak :)

QBI know what you mean but I found that as long as you have enough "headroom" (10+ hrs usually) so that if you do anything to disrupt playback (fast forward, pause, etc) you still won't see any frame drops for the remainder of the movie (even if that 10+ hrs shrinks to just a couple and never works its way back up to the max). In my case, the first custom timing (after obtaining optimization data) I selected for 23 went fully optimized. 24 went fully optimized during the initial acquisition of optimization data. 25 did as well and 29 may have as well (at worst it didn't take more than one timing change I don't remember). 59 was my most "troublesome" but only because I was hunting for fully optimized. With 59, the first timing I tried gave me 1.37 days. The next 4 or 5 custom timings I tried were all over the place (~3hrs to 3.58 days). The last one I tried gave me 3.71 so I just stopped there. Obviously, the first timing would of been more than fine. I've also discovered that if I save (screen cap) the timings in madVR I can reuse them (so if a vid driver update or window update or clean install of vid driver breaks things I can manually re-enter the "saved" timings after optimization data has been obtained and every thing goes back to how it was).

[glc650]

I get drop frames when start movie and when set on pause, after begin again. I use pot player and default renderer for dts-hd and dolby true hd. Is it normal?I use a harmony remote coupled with autohotkeys to execute the ctrl-r after every rewind/fast forward/sub title selection/play/etc so if I play the video the rest of the way through and happen to check the madVR stats during the credits I'll know for sure if there was any "errors" since the last fast forward (or whatever) event. I also have my pause hot key bring up madVR stats and hide madVR stats (after clearing them) on resume.

[*MidnightWatcher*]

I use a harmony remote coupled with autohotkeys to execute the ctrl-r after every rewind/fast forward/sub title selection/play/etc so if I play the video the rest of the way through and happen to check the madVR stats during the credits I'll know for sure if there was any "errors" since the last fast forward (or whatever) event. I also have my pause hot key bring up madVR stats and hide madVR stats (after clearing them) on resume.
What Harmony remote model are you using? Thinking I need one.

[HillieSan]

With Nvidia's recent change in timings, I feel like there isn't a need for custom resolutions anymore. We now get a single frame drop/repeat per 1.05 hours at 23.976 Hz. I can live with that, and I'm major OCD ;)

Recently, I switched from AMD RX 480 to GTX 1080 and I have noticed that the GTX runs nicely out of the box, like the RX does. No custom resolutions required.

[huhn]

guess you are lucky. great!

[HillieSan]

In guess so, but why lucky? Is CRU still required?

[huhn]

many "need" it you don't. there are quite some variables.

[glc650]

What Harmony remote model are you using? Thinking I need one.Harmony Smart Control (which I don't think they sell any more) and the Hub I already had. It doesn't really matter as long as it is a hub model. The non-Hub models don't support IP or BT control (they may not support RF either I don't remember). The Elite is their high end hub model but I didn't like it (too buggy) so I switched to the cheapest Hub compatible model at the time (the Smart Control). I use both IR and BT to control my PC. IR just for on/off (couldn't get BT to turn on sleeping PC) and BT for the rest (BT has additional functions/key combos that can be assigned to buttons on the Harmony - perfect for using with autohotkey).

[QBhd]

I still use the remote that came with my ATi All-in-Wonder 9600 Pro. It's RF.

There used to be plugins for it way back in the day... But those days are 15+ years of ancient history. Then I couldn't get it to work after Windows 7... Found a work around for that. Then I found Promixis Girder to map keyboard shortcuts. And found out that you can get it to start-up with a Windows start-up XML. They don't make things like they used to... When I clean it up, it looks brand new. And the effort it takes to keep it working is well worth it... RF is amazing

QB

[cork_OS]

Planned Future Algorithms (http://madvr.com/EnvyModelComparison.pdf) for ENVY:

AI-based motion interpolation
AI-based motion compensated video deinterlacing
AI-based motion compensated multi frame noise/grain reduction
AI-based grain agnostic sharpening
AI-based 4K HDR dynamic tone mapping processing

It doesn't seem to have been posted here. I wonder what are the chances of seeing these features in madVR?

[quietvoid]

Probably only for RTX+ NVIDIA GPUs, if at all.

[toki]

For some reason, the Nvidia driver seems to make 1080 video skip. It works fine with everything else.

[chros]

Probably only for RTX+ NVIDIA GPUs, if at all.
Close to 0 chance :) maybe tone mapping. But honestly I wouldn't miss any of those, maybe motion interpolation.

[clsid]

"AI" does not necessarily mean it will use Tensor cores. It may very well be new neural network trained algorithms. Similar to how NGU was made.

But new fancy stuff will likely be exclusive to Envy.

[IngramAU]

Looks like the latest Nvidia drivers are broken for me. After playing a HDR show and stopping my desktop levels are blown rhe f out and washed out to the max. I have fiddled with just about everything and Nvidia remains the culprit. Back to 446 it is...

[SamuriHL]

I've not had a chance to upgrade my HTPC to the latest yet. Something about Cyberpunk 2077 being released. LOL I'll check it out in a bit and post metadata results as well.

[Asmodian]

I don't have any issues with HDR and 460.79.

3090, Win10 20H2, Zoom Player.

[VBB]

Same here.

[SamuriHL]

No issues for me. I posted in the driver thread.

[IngramAU]

Looks like I was wrong as same issue under previous driver. What is happening is I'm playing a HDR episode in Media Portal and when I stop playback my TV is still reporting HDR mode is on. I then go to play a non HDR episode and HDR is still engaged on the TV however MadVR is not reporting NV HDR it's just reporting normal, this is causing my colours to be blown out or displayed way too dark.

Not sure what is causing it. Have recently updated Media Portal to latest and windows is now 20H2.

Anything I did within CRU would be undone with a driver change correct? I'm using DDU every time, reinstalling MadVr each time.

Issue isn't happening when I use MPC-HC so I guess something doesn't like Media Portal :(

[VBB]

Yes, that is the issue chros described and I quoted when I asked you. Thanks for confirming that it has not been fixed. Perhaps it isn't happening for you with MPC-HC, because you have the player set to exit after playback.

[Asmodian]

The way I use Zoom Player I naturally close it between videos (unless watching a series) so this issue does not affect me.

It does sound very annoying for those who don't want to restart the player and regularly watch a mix of HDR and SDR content. :(

[IngramAU]

Sorry VBB I didn't see any question from you. What is the cause for this bug?

I'm now using external player within Media Portal and MPC-HC. It works for now until this is fixed. I wonder what the cause is however. Is the new Windows update to blame?

EDIT:

On a positive note, now with the recent Nvidia drivers actually reporting 23.976 and no longer needing custom refresh rate I can easily use 10Bit mode on my TV for 23/24Hz. Can't say it looks any better but I will just tell myself it does :D

[SoySauceWDF]

For the last few months (can't remember exactly when it started) I've been having presentation glitches that visualize as frame drops. Using madvr (latest hdr beta), MPC-HC x64, 2080 ti, latest Nvidia drivers (been happening on multiple driver versions).

I'm using windowed mode but same thing happens in FSE. The only way to get rid of the presentation glitches is under Rendering - Windowed Mode, use flush & wait (sleep)... after copy to backbuffer. The problem then is that the render queue stops filling all the way, 3-4/8, and causes random stuttering and frame drops, especially after seeking. Also using Present Frames in Advance - 1.

Happens in both D3D11 and DXVA2 - Copyback in LAV filter settings. Did a clean uninstall and install of Nvidia drivers and that didn't help. Any advice is much appreciated.

EDIT - FIXED! - I had vsync forced on in the Nvidia control panel, so I turned it off in madvr and voila no presentation glitches

[arcspin]

Here are a collection of settings that may help in battling the stutter problem.

In Nvidia Control panel and under manage 3D settings:
Change the Vertical sync to "ON".
Change the Power management mode to "Adaptive".

In madVR
Set (in madVR, under rendering - Windowed mode) present frames in advance to 1. (you can try other numbers as well, some have had good results with presenting 3 frames in advanced)

Sent from my SM-F916B using Tapatalk

[ausvette]

Yes, that is the issue chros described and I quoted when I asked you. Thanks for confirming that it has not been fixed. Perhaps it isn't happening for you with MPC-HC, because you have the player set to exit after playback.

What are the last nvidia drivers which don't have the problem with BT2020 output stuck on and levels changed?