madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Qaq]

As far as I know, the TV will be outputting RGB 4:2:2
RGB is only 444

see what happens:
madVR outputs RGB 444
video driver passes RGB 444 as is
Panny TV converts RGB 444 to YCC 422
processes it and converts YCC 422 back to RGB 444 (TV's matrix is RGB)

My suggestion:
madVR outputs RGB 444
video driver converts RGB 444 to YCC 444
Panny TV accepts YCC 444 as is
processes it as is and converts YCC 444 back to RGB 444

RGB 444 to YCC 444 convertion is more accurate.

[madshi]

And is there a way to take ambient lighting conditions into account for different times of the day? Would I have to do calibrate the monitor at different brightness levels in different ambient lighting conditions and manually load the appropriate 3DLUT file in madVR at the time?
Of course you can do several calibrations, one for each ambient light level, but that probably only makes sense for front projection or similar things where the ambient light level will dramatically modify the measured results. With a flat panel display I would not expect calibration to produce much different results with different ambient light levels.

What you could do is use madVR's brightness and contrast controls to adjust the image when the ambient light level changes. madVR's brightness control actually modifies the gamma value and madVR's contrast control modifies the form of the gamma curve. So if you find the image too washed out when there's no ambient light, or if you find shadow detail to be eaten away by high ambient light levels, just use the brightness/contrast controls to do small adjustments...

i found a resize bug in in madvr

lanczos8ar video codec is ZMBV output is rgb24
http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/lanczos8ar325f536apng.png

unscaled it looks like this http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/schweif0024877b96bavisnapshot004877b96b0020134877b96b084877b96b10214877b96b304877b96b394877b96bpng.png

bilinear and dxva look very similar and flicker with my gtx 760
That sounds bad. I can't reproduce either problem on my PC.

HI, is there any problem or changes in default configuration of madvr if i use lav video filter with dxva copy back?
There's nothing specific you need to change.

Can you please explain in a simple way, what is the benefit having the possibility to import eeColor 3dlut files in madVR?

Does this mean, that madVR can correct display perfomance using 3dlut correction tables created after calibration using Lightspace CMS software (not cheap) and eeColor processor? No need for a external video processor after video leaves the madVR based HTPC via HDMI then?

edit: found this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484257/madvr-now-support-lightspace-3d-cube-lut-files
Correct, this feature allows you to use eeColor 3dlut files created by LightSpace CMS, Calman, ArgyllCMS and maybe ChromaPure (not sure if ChromaPure can create eeColor 3dlut files), without needing the eeColor hardware box.

Getting occasional freezing when transitioning from window to full-screen in Potplayer. Log is below.

-Opened file
-Browsed to bookmark
-Double click to fullscreen
-Completely frozen video/player, audio still playing.
A log doesn't really help much if a freeze occurs. What would help is a freeze report which you can usually create by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Pause/Break. After you press those keys, a freeze report file should be created on your desktop. However, for the freeze report to be useful, PotPlayer would have to contain (or be distributed with external) debug information. Not sure if that is the case.

I'm trying to verify the 3DLut created by ArgyllCMS. I'm using HCFR with madVR as pattern generator. As I'm running the greyscale series, is it normal that the grey screens are filled with some clear artifacting (posterization banding?)? Shouldn't it be homogenous? When playing the greyscale screens as .mp4 files from the AVSHD set there are no issues. There seems to be some compatibility issues as well, often the test patterns just freeze at 0/n. The ArgyllCMS patches in the madVR pattern generator also exhibit similar artifacting.
Posterization/banding is an artifact where you see clear bands in the image. This can usually only happen if there's a gradiant of some sort. The measurement test patterns shown by madVR/madTPG are supposed to be a solid color without any gradiants. So I'm not sure how such a test pattern could have banding artifacts? Maybe you can make a photo with a digicam?

madVR does use dithering, but that's just a low level noise floor covering the image. That's very different from banding/posterization.

I also seem to be getting better results using DispcalGUI and generating a .icm profile and loading it than I did using the command lines to create a 3Dlut for MadVR.
Which command lines did you use? In any case, this topic is better suited for the AVSForum ArgyllCMS + madVR forum thread. Discussing detailed calibration stuff in this thread is sort of out of topic. In the AVSForum thread also the ArgyllCMS developer is helping, so I'd suggest that you move over there.

What are the advantages in madVR of a 3DLut compared a loaded .icm profile? I'm at least having issues with the full screen patterns, sometimes the deltaE's can go up to 15, but sometimes they are within 0-2 dE without doing any changes to the monitor or the profile. Is this an issue with the .icm profile not being applied?
A normal .icm profile supported by the OS only corrects the red, green and blue channels separately. This works to correct some things. But it's not a complete calibration. A 3dlut can pretty much correct every single color value, resulting in a much more complete calibration. Please note that the suggestions from the first post in the madVR + ArgyllCMS AVSForum thread are *NOT* recommended to be used. Look into the thread to find the command lines I personally recommend.

I have some mkv movies and when the upstream says "full range" then I get "limited range" on my PC monitor ( too bright, no deep black ). I guess this is a bug or something, right? MPC HC without MadVr does show the same clips with correct, full range no matter what the upstream says.
Yes, it's a bug - but not in madVR. If those mkv movies are encoded with the "full range" flag but look incorrect when actually honoring this flag, then the movies are encoded incorrectly. MPC-HC without madVR is not clever enough to actually honor the flag. Only madVR can do that. That's a feature, not a bug. But if you want madVR to behave as stupidly as MPC-HC's internal renderers do, then that's easy enough to change: Just press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I to modify the source levels to TV, then press F2 to store your changes. After that madVR will always ignore the "full range" flag.

Also, is there a way to get MPCHC's native OSD? I find it truly nice whilst on the other hand, MadVr's could get a few improvements in design...
MPC-HC could in theory display its own OSD, but it would cost the MPC-HC developers a bit extra development time to do that. Because of that they haven't implemented that (yet?). So for now you're stuck with the madVR OSD. I might improve it in a future version, but that has low priority for now.

Second, there is a chance to have MadVR as processing filter?
I want to upscale and frame rate adjust some streams. The output could be sent to a file, to a virtual camera device or to BlackMagic card.
Maybe at some point in the future, but probably not any time soon. Too many other things to do. FWIW, the "Smooth Motion FRC" is heavily tied to the VSync to achieve optimal results. So this feature wouldn't make sense to be used in a processing filter, at least not in its current form.

Thank you for testing this - I think this is what you should expect. (I was rushed earlier)

Seeing your photographs gave me an idea though. Does this work for you?

EDIT: Updated the pattern.

http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-small-2ygo6v.png (http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-large-29ooi6.png)

Hopefully this pattern will work to easily identify what your display is using for chroma processing.

4:4:4 and 4:2:2 should be obvious, and it seems that the image should just appear to be a solid color with 4:2:0 processing.
4:4:4 example (http://www.abload.de/img/444-photo6krz2.jpg), 4:2:2 example (http://www.abload.de/img/422-photo6dr38.jpg).

EDIT: 720p friendly pattern (http://s14.directupload.net/images/130815/fo4y4cgf.png).
Looks good! Will add this to the first few posts in this thread.

I just watched a movie a few minutes with OSD on and found several times where for about 30 sec the max rendering time was about half the average rendering time. Never seen this before as far as I can remember. Is that normal or is it maybe a bug?
That should be a bug. Can you please try to find out in which circumstances this bug occurs? Maybe only when using SmoothMotion FRC? If you have found out, could you please create an issue in the madVR bug tracker for this? Thanks.

I believe I am seeing jerky motion while watching a telecine'd TV recording from Showtime with LAV + madVR IVTC + madVR smooth motion (30i IVTC → 24p → 60Hz smooth motion).

Does anyone happen to know a good IVTC motion test file so that I can try to reproduce that more reliably and try to find out if my file is bad, or the timestamps from LAV are bad, or madVR IVTC is bad?
The problem with test files is that if they work but your TV recording does not, you still don't know much more than before, because jerky motion could be caused by many different things (e.g. broken timestamps).

If you want to know whether Smooth Motion FRC works alright, you can test this with any 24p Blu-Ray. The IVTC processing itself should work correctly, if it reports 3:2 and no cadence breaks and if you don't see any combing artifacts.

The best idea might be to upload a small sample for me to look at. You could also cross check with the DScaler IVTC Mod.

I have a A/V receiver (denon 4311) with two HDMI outputs (TV, Videoprojector) linked to ATI 5770 graphics cards (hdmi ->hdmi) .
madVR can not detect which device is used (I guess it's a normal situation). is there a way to switch between several devices (I don't see any shortcut). I can create a new device in preferences but I can not tell to madVR to use it. I would like to use different PC/TV levels and 3dlut for each display linked to AV Receiver.
Ok, I found the "Output device" tab in order to switch between device :o
Anyway, is it possible to add the a keyboard shortcut to switch easily ?
I don't accept feature requests at the moment (too much on my list already). Please feel free to request this again when madVR has reached v1.0.

Hi. I have a 144hz monitor ( ASUS VG248QE ) and was wondering if this refresh rate is supposed to reduce/eliminate motion judder due to it being a multiple of 24p. I'm mainly watching anime atm and I used this guide (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=516729) to set up MPC-HC and MadVR ( I'm using the highest preset in the guide for scaling )

Sadly, motion judder is still existent and is even worse now since Smooth Motion appears to not work at 120hz. I was wondering if anyone could help me with this and whether or not I'm missing something.
At 120hz it's really bad. However, if I enable display mode switching to 60hz with smooth motion on, the judder is reduced.
Can your monitor do 72Hz? If so, just use that, turn off smooth motion FRC and results *should* be smooth in theory. Smooth motion FRC is really only meant to be used for displays which are not able to handle a refresh rate which is an even multiply of the source framerate. Using 120Hz for movie playback itself doesn't have any benefits over 72Hz, unless you want to use things like BFI etc, which madVR currently does not support.

Of course generally 120Hz should also produce smooth output. Are you using fullscreen exclusive mode? Does the madVR OSD (Ctrl+J) report any frame drops, delayed frames or presentation glitches? For 120Hz you might want to increase the size of the GPU queue and the number of backbuffers / pre-presented frames.

No, madVR only supports DXVA2.0 which is not available on WinXP.
Actually, DXVA2 is available on XP, when you install .NET 3.0 or newer. However, whether GPU drivers support DXVA2 decoding on XP is another question.

Just tested Intel HD4000 and a I5-3427U ( Ultrabook ) and everything went ok beside one thing: seeking in the timeline with smooth motion on ( 24fps @60hz ) leads to frame repeats and flickering.
Latest madVR/MPC-HC (LAV), Reclock and Intel HD Graphics 15.31.17.3257. Will test HD4400 in a couple of weeks. Nothing crucial, but AMD5670 works without any similar issues.
That sounds weird. Do you have the "use a separate device for presentation" on or off? Try turning it off. There are some known problems with this feature turned on, when using the very latest Haswell + Ivy Bridge drivers.

RGB is only 444

see what happens:
madVR outputs RGB 444
video driver passes RGB 444 as is
Panny TV converts RGB 444 to YCC 422
processes it and converts YCC 422 back to RGB 444 (TV's matrix is RGB)

My suggestion:
madVR outputs RGB 444
video driver converts RGB 444 to YCC 444
Panny TV accepts YCC 444 as is
processes it as is and converts YCC 444 back to RGB 444

RGB 444 to YCC 444 convertion is more accurate.
I believe the only reason why a TV is converting to YCC 422 is because some internal chip is limited to this resolution during processing. Usually it's the chip responsible for deinterlacing, scaling, color tweaks etc. Which means that it doesn't really matter whether you feed the TV RGB 444 or YCC 444. *Both* are likely to be downconverted to YCC 422.

There are 2 new problems you're getting when using YCC 444 output with your GPU:

(1) You can only hope that the RGB -> YCbCr / YCbCr -> RGB matrixes used by the GPU and the display are identical. If they're not, colors will get screwed up.

(2) If the GPU converts the madVR RGB 444 output to YCC 444 behind madVR's back, it *probably* does so without dithering in 8bit. I don't know for sure, maybe some newer GPUs do this in a higher bitdepth if the display supports DeepColor. But I somehow doubt it. Converting RGB to YCC without dithering in 8bit is lossy and can introduce banding artifacts.

[Qaq]

I believe the only reason why a TV is converting to YCC 422 is because some internal chip is limited to this resolution during processing. Usually it's the chip responsible for deinterlacing, scaling, color tweaks etc. Which means that it doesn't really matter whether you feed the TV RGB 444 or YCC 444. *Both* are likely to be downconverted to YCC 422.
Not really. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p50vt50b-p50vt50-201204101757.htm?page=Performance
When we test input lag and 4:4:4 chroma reproduction, we hook up a laptop or PC graphics card using a DVI-to-HDMI cable, which by nature causes computer-style RGB signals to be fed to the TV (DVI does not support the more video-centric YCbCr digital component format). When we were feeding the Panasonic VT50 with video in this way, the [1080p Pure Direct] mode was not selectable in the menus, and the TV did not resolve full 4:4:4 chroma bandwidth.

We found a newer laptop, with an HDMI output, and connected this to the TX-P50VT50. This did allow the [1080p Pure Direct] mode to be turned on, and the chroma resolution did increase to allow tiny coloured details to be visible. However, when we looked at the tiny pixel-thin details on our 4:4:4 test chart, we saw that the transitions were not entirely clean and suffered from subtle edge enhancement artefacts, suggesting that the chroma channels are subject to the same micro-sharpening we noted at length earlier. So, 1080p Pure Direct is not 100% pure. We did also try the tricks we normally use on Samsung HDTV sets (naming the input PC in the [Input Label] screen), but this doesn't unlock any subtle picture differences on the Panasonic TX-P50VT50B.
..............
Panasonic sells Blu-ray players with Reference Chroma Processing, which promise to better reconstruct the details lost to chroma sub-sampling, and then output the chroma-upscaled image as a full-bandwidth 4:4:4 signal over HDMI. Ironically, the effects of these players will have mostly been lost on previous Panasonic plasmas due to their inability to display full chroma bandwidth! We assume that the 1080p Pure Direct feature has been added to address this irony, and that it is intended for use with these advanced BD players, meaning that customers now have an entirely Panasonic-branded solution for enhanced chroma detail from Blu-ray.

[madshi]

The text you've quoted seems to suggest that in "1080p Pure Direct" mode 4:4:4 is fully supported ("the chroma resolution did increase"). I don't see any evidence in your quote that RGB would be downscaled to 4:2:2 while YCbCr 4:4:4 would not.

[Qaq]

OK. Maybe someone interested will read the whole article.

[QBhd]

Well the point is moot for me. When I output a 1024x768 signal from my HD5770, the options to set to YCbCr disappear. Those are only available in the HDTV modes.

[huhn]

can someone plz try out lanczos 8 ar with an gtx 760 and/or windows 7 overlay mode and report back?

in the same pc my hd4000 works totally fine so i don't think reinstalling the hole pc can fix this.

on top of this windows 7 overlay outputs a black screen.

this happens with every video. i just notice this with the d-fend recording.

[turbojet]

When forcing ivtc on any file with deint=ivtc in the file name does Potplayer show very bad artifacts, almost to the point of being unwatchable, for others?

[Yellow_]

Hi, I'm trying to calibrate a Samsung LED 4200 series HDTV with PC attached using latest Argyl and dispcalGUI until new replacement monitors arrive and I'm getting posterized shadows viewing after calibration.

Settings I've used are 6500k, 80 cdm, rec709 gamma.

The result is quite a milky bright flat output in a dimmly lit room.

Any advice, should I be using sRGB curve or setting a 2.2, 2.4 gamma specifically or is my black point way out? Not sure how I should be setting and balancing between backlight, contrast and brightness. dispcalGUI has only asked me to adjust RGB gains to get the channels aligned in its gui and hit the 80 cdm.

Didn't have this problem with my CRT but it's just packed up. :-(

[dansrfe]

In this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms), specifically this post (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms/570#post_23607581) you'll find madshi's recommended params for calibrating with Argyll which worked well for me.

EDIT: added a link to madshi's actual post

[pankov]

Please note that the suggestions from the first post in the madVR + ArgyllCMS AVSForum thread are *NOT* recommended to be used. Look into the thread to find the command lines I personally recommend.

madshi,
would you, please, add a link to your recommended lines in the first post of the current thread? This will make it a lot easier for beginners in calibration like me.

I've been reading the 4:2:2/4:4:4 discussion lately and when I did the test I was sad to see that my two projecors (EPSON TW2000 and TW9000) are both using 4:2:2 when in 1080p24 mode while maintaining 4:4:4 mode when using 1080p50/60 modes. So I'd like to ask the community here including you madshi which would you consider the lesser evil for wathcing 24p content (Blu-ray movies) - the cut down chroma channel or the ghosting and other potential artefacts when using Smooth Motion FRC at 1080p60?

[madshi]

on top of this windows 7 overlay outputs a black screen.
Windows only supports one overlay per monitor. If some other software is already using overlay, madVR might show a black screen. That's something on my to do list, to check for this problem and automatically use normal windowed mode instead of overlay, if somebody else is already using overlay. However, I wonder how likely it is that somebody else is already using overlay on your PC. Maybe media playback in your browser? Maybe it's more likely that it simply doesn't work at all on your PC, for whatever reason...

When forcing ivtc on any file with deint=ivtc in the file name does Potplayer show very bad artifacts, almost to the point of being unwatchable, for others?
Does this only happen when using the file name tag? Or does also happen if you switch to forced film mode via keyboard shortcuts? Or when you force film mode in the madVR settings and then restart the media player? In other words: Is this specific to the file name tag, or does forced film mode not work at all with PotPlayer on your PC?

I'd like to ask the community here including you madshi which would you consider the lesser evil for wathcing 24p content (Blu-ray movies) - the cut down chroma channel or the ghosting and other potential artefacts when using Smooth Motion FRC at 1080p60?
Try both and let your eyes decide. The cut chroma channel might not be a big problem if all you're doing is 4:2:0 video playback and if the display is using a "good" algorithm to upsample chroma again to 4:4:4 after all the other processing is done. On the other hand, personally, I don't see any ghosting artifacts with Smooth Motion FRC. I'm still not convinced that those users who see ghosting are maybe using displays which have a different internal refresh rate or a scanning backlight which runs at a different refresh rate, or whether something might go wrong on their setups...

[THX-UltraII]

Is there a keyboard shortcut possible for showing the time bar in exclusive mode? I m using a Logitech HR with MPC-BE and madVR and would like to be able to see this time status bar when pressing a button (I can config this with my Logitech HR, an IR receiver and Eventghost)

[turbojet]

Does this only happen when using the file name tag? Or does also happen if you switch to forced film mode via keyboard shortcuts? Or when you force film mode in the madVR settings and then restart the media player? In other words: Is this specific to the file name tag, or does forced film mode not work at all with PotPlayer on your PC?

It's specific to file name tag. No artifacts with force film and no tag but also isn't ivtc'd correctly. I tested it on 3 PC's, same artifacts with potplayer on all, no artifacts with mpc-be on all.

[ryrynz]

Is there a keyboard shortcut possible for showing the time bar in exclusive mode? I m using a Logitech HR with MPC-BE and madVR and would like to be able to see this time status bar when pressing a button (I can config this with my Logitech HR, an IR receiver and Eventghost)

Nope. I use a keyboard shortcut to view the remaining time in MPC-BE (Ctrl I) which is just as good really.

[vulture_g7]

Hello all, first post here!

One question: I've a 2600k and a 7870. Now, I have my out usually set to the onboard gfx to save power and it fires up the 7870 when needed via virtu software. My question is, how can I set madvr to use the 7870 for acceleration when the output is set to my onboard?

[Aikibana]

I notice something strange, but very subtle and hard to spot while playing HD content.

Everything seems to play buttersmooth, but during specific tiny movements (typically a slow moving object in the distance or background) I notice some stutter, exclusively focussed on that object. it's like the object jumps from one place to the next (but very subtle) and there are some frames missing in between.

But even during these moments, all other motion and all other objects of the image are perfectly portrayed. The statistics also show no frame drops whatsoever.

My best guess: some motion detection algorithm is playing the wrong tricks?

Specs:
AMD Radeon 7770
Intel i5
HDMI-out to Panasonic 55VT60
MPC-HC+Madvr+Lav (hi settings focussed on quality)

[leeperry]

The cut chroma channel might not be a big problem if all you're doing is 4:2:0 video playback and if the display is using a "good" algorithm to upsample chroma again to 4:4:4
While we're at it, would there be any way or test pattern to find out how the display converts to 4:4:4? I guess that'd boil down to nearest neighbour, bilinear filtering or Mitchell-Netravali two-part cubic?

And as you just said, isn't 4:2:2 more than enough when YV12 is 4:2:0 anyway?

And also if the display itself only takes 4:2:2 input, wouldn't that make sense to convert chroma in mVR to 4:2:2 instead of 4:4:4? I presume that a 4:2:2 display will process an averaging lossy conversion anyway.....most likely from the computer's RGB32 to 4:2:2 YCbCr and then back to RGB :o

The ideal scenario would be to output 4:2:2 YCbCr from the computer, but the latter is more than likely processed in 8bit from RGB32 and that'd open the can of decoding matrix worms :p

[THX-UltraII]

Nope. I use a keyboard shortcut to view the remaining time in MPC-BE (Ctrl I) which is just as good really.

And this also works in Exclusive Mode?

[THX-UltraII]

Madshi,
Zou je in een volgende release de Exclusive Mode notificatie linksboven in het scherm als optie kunnen verwijderen?

[Selur]

@THX-UltraII: wrong language,...

[Boltron]

I notice something strange, but very subtle and hard to spot while playing HD content.

Everything seems to play buttersmooth, but during specific tiny movements (typically a slow moving object in the distance or background) I notice some stutter, exclusively focussed on that object. it's like the object jumps from one place to the next (but very subtle) and there are some frames missing in between.

But even during these moments, all other motion and all other objects of the image are perfectly portrayed. The statistics also show no frame drops whatsoever.

My best guess: some motion detection algorithm is playing the wrong tricks?

Specs:
AMD Radeon 7770
Intel i5
HDMI-out to Panasonic 55VT60
MPC-HC+Madvr+Lav (hi settings focussed on quality)

Check that your refresh rate playback matches your TVs capabilities. For example if you have set the PC/madVR to 23.976 and your TV only supports 1080p24/1080p60 you will see this type of judder.

[nevcairiel]

And also if the display itself only takes 4:2:2 input, wouldn't that make sense to convert chroma in mVR to 4:2:2 instead of 4:4:4? I presume that a 4:2:2 display will process an averaging lossy conversion anyway.....most likely from the computer's RGB32 to 4:2:2 YCbCr and then back to RGB :o

PCs cannot really output native YCbCr 4:2:2, internally there is always a RGB step, and even if you tell your GPU to output YCbCr, it would convert it from RGB.

[bugmen0t]

While trying to reproduce a madVR bug I switched between LAV decoders and found the following behaviour I don't understand:

With DXVA (both native and copy-back) the madVR OSD shows much higher rendering stats then with software or CUVID decoding.

I thought DXVA is lighter on the GPU than CUVID. Or do I misinterpret the meaning of rendering stats: I know it doesn't show the GPU load but I thought less decoding work for the GPU should decrease the timings? Can someone please explain this phenomena to me? Thanks.

[leeperry]

PCs cannot really output native YCbCr 4:2:2, internally there is always a RGB step, and even if you tell your GPU to output YCbCr, it would convert it from RGB.
Yep, got that but maybe the downconversion in the display from the computer's RGB32 to YCbCr 4:2:2 would be somehow "better"/smoother if mVR didn't interpolate 4:2:0 chroma to 4:4:4 when in the end it'll be converted to 4:2:2 anyway? Just a speculation and I do realize that successive RGB/YCbCr conversion are extremely harmful so I guess it might very well not matter at all :scared:

And I guess the ability to change the dithering "pattern" would also be welcome because we are basically adding noise on purpose and it's tempering with/amplified by the successive lossy RGB32>YCbCr 4:2:2>RGB conversions. But yeah, I do realize that PS cannot do more than random dithering. Floyd–Steinberg and/or dithering "size" settings would be amazing someday :)

[chros]

And this also works in Exclusive Mode?
Yes, even MPC-HC/VLC Remote (android app) supports this functionality :)

[MokrySedeS]

With DXVA (both native and copy-back) the madVR OSD shows much higher rendering stats then with software or CUVID decoding.

CUVID is switching the gpu to the highest power state. DXVA does not.

[bugmen0t]

CUVID is switching the gpu to the highest power state. DXVA does not.
But software decoding behaves the same as CUVID (just by accident?) and the former doesn't switch to highest power state, right?

[sneaker_ger]

Well, how about you test it with monitoring software? On ATI it seems to work similar: it goes into power saving mode when using DXVA decoding, apparently ATI seems to assume that video decoding = don't need much power. It does not detect that if you use software decoding, because it does not really know the difference between madVR and a video game. It's just another software making use of the GPU.

[huhn]

But software decoding behaves the same as CUVID (just by accident?) and the former doesn't switch to highest power state, right?

software can use the highest power state. some gpu limiting them self to medium power state when dxva is used like an 6770 so rendering times can be higher with dxva

[bugmen0t]

OK understood, :thanks: guys.

Whenever the present queue is set lower than the render queue so the former cannot hold all rendered frames (or rendered + blended ones with FRC used) the rendering time increases.
Does this mean the renderer has to wait for the present queue to free up and this waiting time is added to the rendering time?
I thought having the queues filled completely was good but it's faster if the present queue is not by setting the present queue higher than the render queue.

[Niyawa]

Have any of you guys heard about a bug that makes madVR produce artifacts or something? Especially in few occasions where you're using either 59 or 60 Hz.

[Q-the-STORM]

Have any of you guys heard about a bug that makes madVR produce artifacts or something? Especially in few occasions where you're using either 59 or 60 Hz.

Can you vague that up for me?

[Niyawa]

Can you vague that up for me?
Hahaha, my bad. I was kinda in a hurry there. To be more precise, this is what I'm talking about.

http://i.imgur.com/YVF4zdr.jpg

At first I thought it could be either a bad configuration setup or a corrupted file, but the guy who reported the issues told me that when he switches his refresh rate to 59 hz (instead of 60 hz) the issue fixes itself, but appears in other videos. He has yet to tell me which types of videos this happens (like their fps and whatnot) but I want to hear everyone's opinions, as this might be something that has already happened around here.

[leeperry]

Talking about BFI
Adding a bit about BFI as it's really exciting to play around with all those BFI/mVR FRC goodies and now that that the BFI new toy syndrom has worn out, here are my real-world conclusions:

-24p@24Hz: interframe jitter is excellent but the 24p judder is really hiccupy, especially on slow pans. Also, flickering is fairly annoying on flat bright objects(a long shot from 100Hz CRT, though ^^)

-24p@24Hz + BFI: hardly anymore backlight flickering and the synced BFI hides motion blur amazingly well. The flip side of the coin is that it acts as a motion-based EE and the picture looks really "colored" for lack of a better word. The subjective pop effect is highly increased but it doesn't look natural, it really has a "digital" flat-screen look.....my brain is not tricked into believing that it's watching through a window(the original intent of HD video). I can literally "feel" the syncopated shutter of the BFI and that really gives a "digital" unnatural look. 24p judder is still there and it's painful.

-24p@60Hz + mVR FRC: Ah, goodness! This time the motion blur doesn't hide/cheat anymore, it strives to make things look a hell lot smoother. Pop effect is astounding, 24p judder is history and it literally makes me feel like I'm watching through a window, too good to be true :cool:

OTOH, once BFI is disabled the darn backlight flicker becomes very annoying :o

-24p@60Hz + mVR FRC + BFI: the BFI synced shutter kills mVR's FRC: it's nowhere near as smooth looking anymore and motion blur still looks unnatural. They do fight each other to my eyes.

I should state that I'm colorblind and left-handed(we supposedly see faster but righties would hear faster) so YMMV :p

I think 120Hz synced strobing à la nvidia is an excellent idea(too bad it only works on TN panels) but BFI on its own doesn't look natural at all once you get the hang of it IME....it's great on 50p HD DVB-T though.

All this to say that I think this monitor would be full of win: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CNOIbmUws0

You can compare its inexistent flickering to Sammy TV's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-Y9bH-3Qu8

The latter flicker very fast but I can still pick it up and so do cameras....the BenQ supposedly doesn't flicker whatsoever, is said to support up to 72Hz(using minimal blanking custom timings) and IME the higher the refresh rate the smoother mVR's FRC looks.

Also, BenQ is owned by AUO so no panel lottery this time(A-MVA all the way), but of course the backlight bleeding lottery is still there.

I've finally scored a 145€ Asus 660 so I'll order that GW2760HS and will report back :devil:

[*Touche*]

-24p@60Hz + mVR FRC: Ah, goodness! This time the motion blur doesn't hide/cheat anymore, it strives to make things look a hell lot smoother. Pop effect is astounding, 24p judder is history and it literally makes me feel like I'm watching through a window, too good to be true :cool:


Why would this look better than 24p@24Hz?

[huhn]

his display must be bad at 24 hz doing funny things or so

[Niyawa]

Why would this look better than 24p@24Hz?
Haha, leeperry is known for having odd/contradicting opinions on things. Don't take it for the heart.

However this is weird indeed, madVR's FRC is supposed to imitate the feeling you get with 24p@24hz. If you find madVR's method to be better then this points out to a problem with your 24hz display.

[dansrfe]

In my experience, if your display only supports <= 60Hz then using FRC exclusively for all content (except 29.97/30/60fps) is simpler and visually indistinguishable from using 24/48Hz. I've tested 24fps on 60Hz with FRC and on 120Hz without FRC at the same time on two identical displays and you simply cannot tell the difference. Even if your nose is touching the monitor while running test patterns or other videos.

It's my observation that FRC does not give a visually indistinguishable result is when the video's framerate is within ~25% of the display's refresh rate. Maybe madshi could provide better insight on this.

[leeperry]

Why would this look better than 24p@24Hz?
Because FRC blends the frames, they're not 1/2/3/4 anymore, they're 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 and so on. madshi made very clear that FRC was simulating an infinite refresh rate and that the higher the better.

All I'm seeing is frame blending I guess and it would appear that SVP also provides a blending mode. FI does create unacceptable artifacts on fast moving objects but I can entirely live with frame blending slight "blurring"(can't really find the right word ^^) as 24p doesn't hiccup anymore :cool:

Anyway, as I said I'm colorblind and left-handed and I'm just sharing the results of my real-world experiments....If anything, I kinda have a hard time understanding how nobody else sees what I see tbh :D

This said, 99% of the world appears to be using PWM flickering LCD monitors that give me instant headaches and eye burns, lol: LED Monitors can cause headaches due to flicker (http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1362457985)

Compare the very fast flickering videos from my previous post to this nasty sluggishly flickering PWM LCD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhDS7CHDPk

I also cannot bear plasmas that just flicker like hell to my brain, but again it doesn't just happen to me (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1623129&postcount=18255).

99% of the world would be OK with that DELL monitor but you can read that the guy who posted that youtube video sent it back for a refund due to this major problem. Funnily enough, DELL sent non-PWM samples of that S2440L monitor for review purposes and BenQ is now putting its money on a new line of non-flickering A-MVA monitors, too good to be true² :)

What I've learned in the audio world is that we all hear differently, the same way we all see differently. The idea is to share experiments results and find ways to improve our own experience, nothing more really and madshi has really saved my day as far as my HTPC is concerned :cool:

It would appear that some digital displays use CRT-like tricks when fed 24p so YMMV again, but unprocessed 24p judder is really hard to bear IME on a LCD screen: New Sony HDTV’s with Motionflow Impulse (http://www.blurbusters.com/new-sony-hdtvs-with-motionflow-impulse-sony-lightboost-equivalent/)

[DragonQ]

My plasma shows 24p at 96 Hz. Looks great, aside from the edge-quadrupling but that's only visible on certain panning shots.

[leeperry]

24p@96/120Hz looks great on a CRT, a hell lot better than on a LCD but then again mVR's FRC still does its blending magic to my eyes :)

[*Touche*]

I'm with you on the PWM issue. I hate it. Then again, I also hate LCDs in general :)

[pankov]

Please note that the suggestions from the first post in the madVR + ArgyllCMS AVSForum thread are *NOT* recommended to be used. Look into the thread to find the command lines I personally recommend.

madshi,
would you, please, add a link to your recommended lines in the first post of the current thread? This will make it a lot easier for beginners in calibration like me.
madshi the first post in the AVS forum thread was updated on 22.08.2013? Does it still NOT represent your recommendations ... which btw I still haven't found in the AVS forum ... or I'm not exactly ceratin that I did and I'll be very glad if you can post a link here.

[dansrfe]

madshi the first post in the AVS forum thread was updated on 22.08.2013? Does it still NOT represent your recommendations ... which btw I still haven't found in the AVS forum ... or I'm not exactly ceratin that I did and I'll be very glad if you can post a link here.

The first page of that thread has been updated with madshi's recommended parameters. Also, I posted this in response to your question a few pages back: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1641252&postcount=19914.

[Owyn]

a newbie question about upscaling:
what would be better (with more quality) to watch:
1) 720p upscaled w madVR to 1080p desktop resolution
2) 720p at 720p desktop at 1080p monitor ?

[sneaker_ger]

If you have a 1080p monitor there will always be scaling for playing 720p content (in most cases even for 1080p content due to chroma sub-sampling). For 1) madVR does that scaling, for 2) the monitor does the scaling. I don't know how good your monitor's scaling is, but the scaling madVR does is very good so I would go with 1).

[vulture_g7]

Anyone knows how can I set madvr to use the radeon 7870 for acceleration when the output is set to my onboard gfx card?

[DragonQ]

a newbie question about upscaling:
what would be better (with more quality) to watch:
1) 720p upscaled w madVR to 1080p desktop resolution
2) 720p at 720p desktop at 1080p monitor ?

Depends on whether your monitor is any good at scaling or not. In my experience, monitors suck at scaling. TVs on the other hand range from terrible to fantastic. My TV scales Wii 480p content exceptionally well - it's just a shame that Wii games don't tend to use anti-aliasing, otherwise they'd look great.

[6233638]

http://i.imgur.com/YVF4zdr.jpg

At first I thought it could be either a bad configuration setup or a corrupted file, but the guy who reported the issues told me that when he switches his refresh rate to 59 hz (instead of 60 hz) the issue fixes itself, but appears in other videos. He has yet to tell me which types of videos this happens (like their fps and whatnot) but I want to hear everyone's opinions, as this might be something that has already happened around here.Are you using hardware accelerated decoding? Software decoding seems to be less error prone.

a newbie question about upscaling:
what would be better (with more quality) to watch:
1) 720p upscaled w madVR to 1080p desktop resolution
2) 720p at 720p desktop at 1080p monitor ?Use madVR to scale.