madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mataus]

Try "touch window from outside", without madvr black bars detection options.

I'll give the a try to see if the video player can do it. However, if it does then I will lose the madVR auto aspect ratio switching.

[Siso]

I'll give the a try to see if the video player can do it. However, if it does then I will lose the madVR auto aspect ratio switching.

Why do you need madvr's auto aspect ratio switching?

[famasfilms]

I've just got a new PC, installed MPC-HC 2.0 and MadVR, but now MadVR is not auto switching the display modes of my TV to match the refresh rate.

Everything is set up as it was on my old PC.

I've gone from a i5 6600 and 1650 Super, to a i7-13700K with Nvidia 3080.

Any ideas?

[huhn]

win 11?

[famasfilms]

win 11?

yes it is

[huhn]

well get the newest beta and hope.

[Sunspark]

You can do the refresh rate/display mode switching in the MPC-HC settings need be. It works, I've tried it (though not with Win11). You don't have to do it from within MadVR.

[famasfilms]

You can do the refresh rate/display mode switching in the MPC-HC settings need be. It works, I've tried it (though not with Win11). You don't have to do it from within MadVR.


Is that in autochange fullscreen monitor mode?

I have 2 monitors plugged into this PC along with the TV (now a day after purchase I'm thinking I'd have been better off buying a cheaper TV only PC lol and sticking with my laptop for work stuff)

Currently all the display modes are 165 @ 3440x1440p which is the resolution of my main monitor.

How do I add the desired display modes for the tv?

[Sunspark]

I guess it would depend on what graphics adapter you're using.. on Intel you go into the graphic properties, display and set a custom resolution/refresh if it's not already present.

You may need to also uncheck "hide modes this monitor cannot display" in the display adapter properties.

You can also use CRU to define custom resolutions and refreshes, but there's a learning curve with this one so try unchecking the checkbox first.

[Klaus1189]

right click on Desktop -> Display settings -> scroll to the bottom -> Advanced display settings -> click on refresh rate drop down list

post a screenshot of this listed refresh rates on google drive or similar

[famasfilms]

I got madvr to switch the display modes by deleting the other two monitors from madvr and just leaving the TV.

Haven't touched any other settings than display modes - no scaling or image quality. Watching a TV episode for the first time I couldn't help but feel the playback was jerky. No dropped frames and rendering with ctrl+J was very very low. I disabled display mode switching and just left my TV on 60hz

[huhn]

force vsync in nv control panel and set prerendered frames to 1 also try to disable mpo: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5157/~/after-updating-to-nvidia-game-ready-driver-461.09-or-newer%2C-some-desktop-apps

[famasfilms]

Earlier I noticed a strange flapping noise coming from my speakers when I started watching any movie. It sounded like rubber flaps being blown by a stream of air is best way I can describe it. Or a ceiling fan

I uninstalled MPC-HC and Lavfilters and reset MadVR settings. Reinstalled, set Lav decoders as preferred in external filters, disabled all internal filters then started a movie.

Everything sounded great/normal, then I remembered I forgot to set MadVR as output. With MadVR enabled I get the flapping noise, without Madvr enabled I don't.

Any ideas?

[Sunspark]

MPC-HC uses a current version of LAV so you don't need to use the external version of the filters.

[e-t172]

With MadVR enabled I get the flapping noise, without Madvr enabled I don't.

Your audio hardware setup has an electromagnetic noise immunity issue (usually a ground loop) where the analog audio signal path is not properly isolated from your PC/GPU power supply noise. This can result in audible noise being injected into the analog audio signal. The noise typically varies depending on the specific workload (due to different power supply spikes), which likely explains why you only hear it when madVR is running. (For example the "flaps" you hear could be tied to madVR waking up 24 times per second and pulling power to process the next frame.)

Unfortunately, troubleshooting IEM interference on analog audio setups can be challenging. However as a possible quick and dirty fix, you can try using a different audio interface and see what happens.

[famasfilms]

Your audio hardware setup has an electromagnetic noise immunity issue (usually a ground loop) where the analog audio signal path is not properly isolated from your PC/GPU power supply noise. This can result in audible noise being injected into the analog audio signal. The noise typically varies depending on the specific workload (due to different power supply spikes), which likely explains why you only hear it when madVR is running. (For example the "flaps" you hear could be tied to madVR waking up 24 times per second and pulling power to process the next frame.)

Unfortunately, troubleshooting IEM interference on analog audio setups can be challenging. However as a possible quick and dirty fix, you can try using a different audio interface and see what happens.


Yes, the issue is made worse because my home cinema audio is a denon avr with a secondary amp (lyngdorf 1120) powering the front speakers. This amp is in bypass mode which essentially puts it all full level

I was also getting noise when moving the mouse until I ran speaker cable between each amp connected to the signal ground screw at back of denon

I'm going to try moving the PC today and will see if I can another bit of speaker cable to ground pc case. Obviously using a different pc audio interface is a non starter as I want to use my surround sound setup in full atmos etc.


I only got the PC on Friday, watched a few TV episodes on Saturday and didn't notice the noise then. Only thing I've done since is added a western digital NAS, an external HD via a USB dock and moved the surge protector slightly.

I just tested it by removing the secondary amp out the system and it's fine, so clearly that amp is amplifying the noise in the system!


I am not going to use this PC for gaming - is it worth underclocking the GPU card? Presumably I just download a third party Nvidia utility app to do that?

[Alexkral]

Sometimes the solution is as simple as plugging the devices involved into different outlets.

[Sunspark]

It would be interesting to test e-t172's theory about the workload playing a role (e.g. coil whine that CPUs and power supplies can get). For power supplies the old fix was to put epoxy on the coils.

So, with MadVR you have your choice of algorithms.. why not test with some of the "easy" ones, like dxva then bicubic? This is just to see if you hear anything with those.

[famasfilms]

So, with MadVR you have your choice of algorithms.. why not test with some of the "easy" ones, like dxva then bicubic? This is just to see if you hear anything with those.

I was just using the default settings after install and it was whiny.

Anything I should do to reduce settings?

[Sunspark]

Try plugging in a different power supply into your PC. Power supplies do whine and some are better than others.

You could also try using mpc-vr to see if there is sound, deselect the checkboxes in the "DXVA2 and D3D11 video processor" section so that it will use shaders instead of the card's baked in stuff.

[Sunspark]

I have a question about what is displayed in the HUD.

I have here an anime 10-bit mkv.

Display type in madvr preferences is set as 8-bit and when the video is playing the hud displays "h264, 10 bit, 4:4:4 -> Y410, 10 bit, 4:4:4".

There is no chroma scaling line for this file because it is already 4:4:4 chroma.

In mpcvr the hud there displays: "Internal Format: A2R10G10B10, PostProcessing: dither, Presentation: Flip, X8R8G8B8"

I'm puzzled because while the monitor can certainly receive higher than 8 bit inputs even though the panel is only 6 or 8 bit, does madvr silently dither down to 8-bit without displaying a line on the HUD indicating what it is doing? My assumption is that instead of Y410 it should really be more properly YV24? If I deselect Y410, etc. in the LAV video decoder the hud then displays YV24 for the output, but I can't say that this is an improvement unless there is more dithering done by the panel when left at Y410 instead of forcing YV24 and it is better?

PS. Also, in this scenario, what is the benefit of it selecting Y410 instead of RGB32 for example?

[famasfilms]

Try plugging in a different power supply into your PC. Power supplies do whine and some are better than others.

You could also try using mpc-vr to see if there is sound, deselect the checkboxes in the "DXVA2 and D3D11 video processor" section so that it will use shaders instead of the card's baked in stuff.

I just used mpc video renderer and that got rid of the flapping without needing to deselect anything.

So this is an alternative to madvr? am I losing any quality by switching over?

[Sunspark]

I just used mpc video renderer and that got rid of the flapping without needing to deselect anything.

So this is an alternative to madvr? am I losing any quality by switching over?

It does seems as if it may be coil-whine related. You will need to try another power supply later.

Quality is subjective and mpcvr doesn't have over-the-top shaders that madvr does so the load isn't heavy on the system. For that renderer, I use bilinear for chroma, mitchell-netravali for upscaling, hamming for downscaling and have checked on both "use dithering" and "use the upscaling" checkboxes. You can see the HUD by pressing ctrl-j while playing. If the HUD says DXVA VP or whatever as you haven't deselected anything, you're not using the shaders but rather what the video card has built-in.. if you like that, then that's fine.

You should be able to also use madvr with similar shaders and not get the same noise..

[Siso]

I just used mpc video renderer and that got rid of the flapping without needing to deselect anything.

So this is an alternative to madvr? am I losing any quality by switching over?

I wouldn't call it an alternative, because it is missing some useful features.

[famasfilms]

It does seems as if it may be coil-whine related. You will need to try another power supply later.

Quality is subjective and mpcvr doesn't have over-the-top shaders that madvr does so the load isn't heavy on the system. For that renderer, I use bilinear for chroma, mitchell-netravali for upscaling, hamming for downscaling and have checked on both "use dithering" and "use the upscaling" checkboxes. You can see the HUD by pressing ctrl-j while playing. If the HUD says DXVA VP or whatever as you haven't deselected anything, you're not using the shaders but rather what the video card has built-in.. if you like that, then that's fine.

You should be able to also use madvr with similar shaders and not get the same noise..


OK thanks. It's a prebuilt new PC so I'm not going to play component roulette, as I had the same problem to a lesser extent on the old PC too.

I honestly think my best option is trying to sell both amplifiers and getting an all in one equivalent like an Anthem MRX 940. This would take out the extra layer of amplification which is making the noise audible.

For now I can just use my laptop as the playback machine.

The other annoying situation that sprung up this same weekend is a vertical line of glitched pixels on my 7.5 year old OLED - so lot of demands on funds, with a new TV being higher on the priority list

[huhn]

I have a question about what is displayed in the HUD.

I have here an anime 10-bit mkv.

Display type in madvr preferences is set as 8-bit and when the video is playing the hud displays "h264, 10 bit, 4:4:4 -> Y410, 10 bit, 4:4:4".

There is no chroma scaling line for this file because it is already 4:4:4 chroma.

In mpcvr the hud there displays: "Internal Format: A2R10G10B10, PostProcessing: dither, Presentation: Flip, X8R8G8B8"

I'm puzzled because while the monitor can certainly receive higher than 8 bit inputs even though the panel is only 6 or 8 bit, does madvr silently dither down to 8-bit without displaying a line on the HUD indicating what it is doing? My assumption is that instead of Y410 it should really be more properly YV24? If I deselect Y410, etc. in the LAV video decoder the hud then displays YV24 for the output, but I can't say that this is an improvement unless there is more dithering done by the panel and it is better?

PS. Also, in this scenario, what is the benefit of it selecting Y410 instead of RGB32 for example?

of cause it will dither down as as it would dither down with 8 bit source.

the bit deep of a file has nothing to do with the output bit deep.
Y what ever and n what ever are not RGB so they can not be shwon.
doing a YUV/YCbCr or what ever to RGB conversation will result in float point number that can not be stored accurately in any bit deep and that's why you dither it doesn't stay 8 bit.

what your display gets depends on the GPU driver if it can't send 10 bit it can't get 10 bit data ever.
madVR will just dither to the output bit deep you have selected or is possible and that's the end of the story.

what it dithers to is literally line 4: https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/1693168771500-png.3495369/

in mpcVR is is the presentation type in your example it renders on 32 bit RGB 8 bpc or 24 bpp. or what ever you want to name it.
here is mpcVR rendering 10 bit on using again 32 bit RGB 10 bpc 10 bpp: https://abload.de/img/mpvvr10bite5efo.png
which it even claims in windowed mode which should be impossible so maybe that's more of a trys to render which it will use in windowed fullscreen mode or something. or maybe windows can do that now too...


the lavfilter settings have no effect on what your display get and you should really not change them at all you are only lowering image quality nothing else.

I just used mpc video renderer and that got rid of the flapping without needing to deselect anything.

So this is an alternative to madvr? am I losing any quality by switching over?

yes total alternative and no need for any GPU power what so ever and if your PC doesn't work it will not send bad power to the AVR.
not a fix in my eyes but sure.
It does seems as if it may be coil-whine related. You will need to try another power supply later.

Quality is subjective and mpcvr doesn't have over-the-top shaders that madvr does so the load isn't heavy on the system. For that renderer, I use bilinear for chroma, mitchell-netravali for upscaling, hamming for downscaling and have checked on both "use dithering" and "use the upscaling" checkboxes. You can see the HUD by pressing ctrl-j while playing. If the HUD says DXVA VP or whatever as you haven't deselected anything, you're not using the shaders but rather what the video card has built-in.. if you like that, then that's fine.

You should be able to also use madvr with similar shaders and not get the same noise..
please this is not coil whine.
coil whine doesn'T get out of speaker it is a sound produced by vibrating well coils and such or capacitator (technical everything is to some part a coil or capacitor in electronics).

he get's audio issues out of speakers this is either ground loop that would be a 50 or 60 HZ audio or the DAC is feed with very bad power (what i assume) but not coil whine.

i had so many system with this system that i can clearly without any doubt say there is no clear single solution.
i used a sound card that will never do that ever and i got this issue with such a high number of PSU, soundcards, mainboard and GPU combination that this is at best a random chance to get the correct one.

try the grounding stuff talked about by Alexkral. cheap none destructive.
try your luck with destroying a HDMI cable there is a pin in there that delivers power and all devises should still work and will 100 % not get damaged only the cable is at worse a goner.

after that you can replace PC parts or the AVR but well that's not cheap and the AVR is clearly to blame here just like for me the soundcard always was because it has to clean this up and didn't...
even through the DAC is always the issue doesn't mean a different GPU will fix it.

[zapatista]

good evening Madshi,

thank you for making this great program and still updating it !

i have been using madvr 0.92.17 for the last few years with nvidia 1060 ( 3 GB ) in win-8.1 for my HTPC, and after doing lots of tweaking and testing with the different madvr settings to squeeze best performance from my limited GPU it produced an amazing video quality on my 1080p quantum dot lcd sony tv (using RGB 4.4.4 over HDMI)

I have just upgraded my HTPC to win-10 (and new intel 660 mb ) and choose a nvidia 3060 gfx card ( 12 GB ) in the hope i can now significantly turn up the madvr settings to further improve the video quality of my HTPC (still using the same 1080p lcd display)

Can you please advise:
1) how can i upgrade my madvr 0.92.17 to 113 without wiping all my current madvr settings ? can i just point the new install to the old directory of my current madvr install and it will keep the current settings ? (i suspect not ?)
2) can i print out all my current settings to a pdf/doc type file so i can keep it for future reference. i previously spent many hrs testing with high quality video source files to tweak my settings) and would like to keep my current settings information for future reference point.
3) from my recent reading from other madvr users, with my newer 3060 nvidia hardware (but still only mid range compared to high end HTPC setups from other users), is it correct that madvr 113 is my best choice ? or should i just install the latest version ? some other users made mention of some hardware (GPU ?) features that might not be present in my 3060 card and would possibly cause some glitches if i dont have a newer 4xxx nvidia card (i might be confused on this however)
3) i am still using mostly 1080 files. with the luxury of now having 12 gb Vram what madvr settings would you suggest i should i now focus on and experiment with to improve video quality further ( using my current madvr 0.92 install with the newer hardware, GPU-Z indiccates i am "only" using 4.7 gb of the available 12 gb vram )

thanks again for your great program, it makes a HUGE difference in the video quality on a good display and makes the video image much more immersive !

new pc specs (in case software/hardware variations matter) : win 10 pro 22H2 , nvidia 3060 12 gb , latest whql studio driver from MSI website = 536.99 , intel 660 chipset , intel i5 13400-F cpu and 64 gb ram.

[QBhd]

You can extract the contents of a newer version and overwrite. Your settings will still be there. Only if you do a reset or delete the settings.bin file will you lose your settings.

QB

[huhn]

I have just upgraded my HTPC to win-10 (and new intel 660 mb ) and choose a nvidia 3060 gfx card ( 12 GB ) in the hope i can now significantly turn up the madvr settings to further improve the video quality of my HTPC (still using the same 1080p lcd display)
there is a very low number of reported issues with win 10 to be save use the newest beta.

1) how can i upgrade my madvr 0.92.17 to 113 without wiping all my current madvr settings ? can i just point the new install to the old directory of my current madvr install and it will keep the current settings ? (i suspect not ?)
the new beta version need to be copy over an existing release version it doesn't have a new setting file so it has to use the old setting.
setting.bin are your setting if you sae that you will keep your settings.
there are exception but there always are like installing madVR in a copy protected folder will force it to use the registry for settings.

2) can i print out all my current settings to a pdf/doc type file so i can keep it for future reference. i previously spent many hrs testing with high quality video source files to tweak my settings) and would like to keep my current settings information for future reference point.
backup the settings.bin
3) from my recent reading from other madvr users, with my newer 3060 nvidia hardware (but still only mid range compared to high end HTPC setups from other users), is it correct that madvr 113 is my best choice ? or should i just install the latest version ? some other users made mention of some hardware (GPU ?) features that might not be present in my 3060 card and would possibly cause some glitches if i dont have a newer 4xxx nvidia card (i might be confused on this however)
madVr doesn't use anything new at all. it plain old DX9 stuff.
3) i am still using mostly 1080 files. with the luxury of now having 12 gb Vram what madvr settings would you suggest i should i now focus on and experiment with to improve video quality further ( using my current madvr 0.92 install with the newer hardware, GPU-Z indiccates i am "only" using 4.7 gb of the available 12 gb vram )
nothing because madVR doesn't use Vram what so ever especially when you are rendering at 1080p.

4.7 is alot just lower the render queue it has no effect on image quality but effect Vram usage. not that it matters.

you know the entire tech community got mad because the 4060 ti got only 8 gb ram and then they tested the 16 gb version which performed the same it may matter for some games at some resolution or what ever... it's just Vram it doesn't do anything for video playback.

[Amuat]

I haven't been able to find out anywhere what it actually means to "use a separate device for presentation" or "...DXVA processing", only about the potential impact it has on performance. What is the separate device? And what is the alternative if I don't use Direct3D 11 for presentation?

[huhn]

it was to avoid bugs and such if you don't have any issues don't use it.

[famasfilms]

try your luck with destroying a HDMI cable there is a pin in there that delivers power

I have a lot of spare HDMI cables so willing to give this a try, any links on which pin to "break"

[Asmodian]

I haven't been able to find out anywhere what it actually means to "use a separate device for presentation" or "...DXVA processing", only about the potential impact it has on performance. What is the separate device? And what is the alternative if I don't use Direct3D 11 for presentation?

It is a device only in the Windows Direct3D sense of a software object called a "device".
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d9/direct3d-devices

If you don't use those options madVR uses the same "device" to do the rendering, presentation, and DXVA processing. These options are legacy at this point, only useful for very old GPU drivers.

[huhn]

I have a lot of spare HDMI cables so willing to give this a try, any links on which pin to "break"

i had to check this. i'm not qualified for this what so ever.

pin 17 is ground which may have a very small change to stop a ground loop.
power is pin 18 i doubt the cable will work without it but could be for power over HDMI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/has-anyone-tried-defeating-hdmi-grounding.1084555/

most talk about pin 19 and the issue with that.

[ng4ever]

I doubt anyone will know which is ok.

Recently got a new pc monitor that has HDR too but I play everything on my projector and the projector screen instead. Whenever I play something that is in HDR at first to move to the projector screen the main pc monitor blinks then comes back. Thinking because it is playing it in HDR sense it looks brighter afterwards. What I want is for that not to happen on my main pc monitor. Just my projector screen when I move it over to it. Like it use to with my old pc monitor that did not have HDR. Is this possible to do if so how?

The only other thing is when I turn off my main pc monitor now too it makes my projector screen go blank for a split second then comes back. I do not want that to happen either if possible. How would I do that please?

If no one knows it is fine. I can live with it.

[ng4ever]

One last question sorry.

Can I go crazy with settings on MadVR now sense I just got my RTX 4090 ?

[Sunspark]

You are cleared to go crazy.

[ng4ever]

You are cleared to go crazy.

Thanks will it make my RTX 4090 coil whine ?

[huhn]

disable HDR passthrough and use tone mapping.

if you have a card that produces coil whine it will produce coil whine.

[Amuat]

Thank you for the answers. Is there a good, up-to-date guide for all the options in madVR (and also for MPC-HC for that matter)? I've only read a couple of old ones.

[JarrettH]

Thank you for the answers. Is there a good, up-to-date guide for all the options in madVR (and also for MPC-HC for that matter)? I've only read a couple of old ones.

I always look back at this guide in the forum for an explanation of the settings https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787

[ashlar42]

Thank you for the answers. Is there a good, up-to-date guide for all the options in madVR (and also for MPC-HC for that matter)? I've only read a couple of old ones.

Asmodian's guide (linked above) is fine for everything except the new tone mapping options added in the beta releases. For those I don't see a lot of users sharing their optimal settings. People in the know write in a testing only discussion on AVS and they don't seem to share a lot, as I said. Moreover, most of that stuff has to deal with projectors, fewer people are interested in tone mapping if they use OLED or LCD.

[QBhd]

Tone mapping is very important for OLED and LCD

QB

[ashlar42]

Tone mapping is very important for OLED and LCD

QB

I am not saying it is not. But I guess you would agree with it being less crucial than with projectors...

Also, debating this is kinda pointless. The fact is it's far less likely to find people sharing madVR betas tone mapping settings for OLEDs than it is to find them for projectors. I would absolutely *love* to be proved wrong.

[ryrynz]

Tone mapping is very important for OLED and LCD

QBI fired up some recommend settings on my Panasonic LZ980 and I had a hard time telling the difference over passing through. [emoji1745]

[famasfilms]

Any reason why when my desktop PC cannot display a signal to my LG G3 when playing movies at 23hz in RGB 12bit, but my laptop can?

I checked to make sure all Nvidia and MadVR settings are the same. The nvidia 1650 laptop has no issue switching display modes, toggling on HDR. Colours look bright and vivid unless I bring up a right-click menu then they fade to washed out and return to vivid when playback resumes.

When trying to do the same on my newer desktop with RTX 3080, the TV says "cannot display a signal". When playing back in RGB 8bit then the colours are washed out

[SamuriHL]

I fired up some recommend settings on my Panasonic LZ980 and I had a hard time telling the difference over passing through. [emoji1745]

And how many nits was the content mastered to? If you're checking 1000 nit content on an OLED and comparing it to any tone mapping algorithm you're doing it wrong. Now if you're saying 4000+ nit content that you "had a hard time telling the difference" well, I'd say that's abnormal.

[ryrynz]

And how many nits was the content mastered to?

Since I find the majority of content out there isn't mastered to 4000 nits keeping MadVR tonemapping on doesn't appear to be the best advice, saying that it's important to be used when most content won't even use it, and when it does finding the differences being minimal. But if you've got the headroom I guess then sure why not.

[Alexkral]

There is still the problem that most of the time HDR looks quite dark, at least compared to how most people are used to seeing SDR. This is true even with very recent HDR10 releases, which means that in the mastering process, very little attention is being paid to the ITU recommendation of setting the reference white at 203 nits.

For 4000 nits content this is not usually a problem, probably not because the recommendation is being followed, since it is the same with older titles, but because with such bright highlights, colorists probably have a tendency to set the reference white a bit higher in a natural way.

For 1000 nits content, using BT.2390 with target nits below the peak nits of the screen works wonderfully, much better than passthrough.

Unfortunately with the Roll-off used in madVR this is only possible depending on the brightness of the screen, for example, with a peak brightness of 417 nits, you have to set target nits at 100 to map the 100 nits source reference white to 203 nits. And madVR 0.92.17 does not allow setting target nits below 100, so 417 nits is the limit here. IIRC this target nits limit has changed in the latest betas, but so has the curve. Obviously with a less bright screen, the reference white is also raised, but it does not reach 203 nits. With the original BT.2390 Roll-off there is also a limit, but for this example it would be as low as 293 nits.

I've been doing this with shaders for a long time, and with my 400 nits display (probably around 350 now) it has always worked very well for me. I have also made a calculator to know the necessary target nits depending on several factors, and I have even managed recently to do it with dynamic tone mapping, not possible in real time unfortunately in the way I have done it.

[brazen1]

Should I be tone mapping my 1550 nit QLED or keep passing through? What would happen to specular highlights if I did because I really enjoy them?