madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[cyber201]

When I press STOP, the display remain in HDR mode.s

By enable Force to exit from fullscreen before stop,
the display return in normale mode :D:D

[SamuelMaki]

A slightly off the topic question, but hopefully I am forgiven:

My LG TV has a PC-mode only on 59 or 60hz refreshrates, it drops to the full-processing mode with anything else (23,24,25,29,50 etc).
Hence I am asking if there is any real reason why I shouldn't use 60hz and smooth motion with madVR?
Is the blending algorithm worse than what TVs do? I doubt this 2010-year panel does REAL 24hz, but some sort of internal conversion to 60hz or close instead. It has the LGs "True Cinema" toggle in settings though, which apparently in new models means 72hz, but when doing a custom resolution with 72hz, it drops frames and is still 60hz really. Very confusing for sure. However even with all settings turned off in the LG, when it is not in PC-mode, the text is less sharp and clearly some processing still left, which I am trying to eliminate with the PC-mode in the first place.

So! Anyone using LG TVs or older TVs in general which claim to work with all signals, but having a close to 60hz panels? Are you preferring the TV or the madVRs smooth motion for it? Is there any real downsides on using frame blending in such case on big screen?

[AbbeKoenig]

No, G-Sync does not mix well with madVR. You need to turn it off, at least for your media player (add it to Program Settings and set Monitor Technology to Fixed Refresh, under Manage 3D Settings). G-Sync gets very confused and you get random drifting refresh rates with terrible judder as it drifts around.

Looks like it might be G-Sync after all. I've turned it off in the nVidia Control Panel. I'm also using an outboard 60Hz screen though.

[Asmodian]

I definitely prefer 60 Hz with smooth motion on any TV that doesn't have a good 24 Hz mode. I find smooth motion better than the 3:2 judder or 4:2:2 processing that occurs when using the other modes.

The only reason not to use smooth motion is the slight softening due to the blended frames but that is usually much better than what the TV would do.

[huhn]

you should use your eyes. the number of people that doesn't notice 3:2 judder is pretty high.

it sounds strange but LG TV are not that bad at the true 24p even with 60 hz panels. if they run the screen at 48 or something like that i don't know. and that doesn't mean they accept a custom resolution at 72 hz and stuff like this.

just to give you an idea how strange the TV market is there are a lot of Philips TVs that can do PC mode at any refresh rate and do proper 24p even cheaper ones. only sony is a saver choice they can usually do this too. on the other hand Samsung totally fail in this regard with the 2016 series most screen can't do 24p properly even the more expensive ones.

[ryrynz]

I've seen this mentioned a bit, how does one know if it "can't do 24p properly" Are you saying there are bad implementations of 3:2 judder or that the TV is simply not running at almost exactly 23.976Hz or some multiple of it?

[huhn]

a lot of TVs out there display everything with 60 or 50 hz they can't do anything close to 23p.

when smoothmotion is more smooth than a 23p signal you got one of these screens. the number is of displays that are unable to do 23p is gigantic and the number of people that doesn't notice it is even bigger.

for example my TV can do 23p "properly" without pure direct mode (PC mode) with pure direct mode on it is doing a 3:2 judder. so i'm using the pure direct mode at 60 hz with smoothmotion.

my old Philips could a that without a problem in PC mode.

of cause you should never forget to disable the motion interpolation when you are testing this.

rtings is testing this: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku7500
i don't like the way they test it but it's ok.

[ashlar42]

I doubt this 2010-year panel does REAL 24hz, but some sort of internal conversion to 60hz or close instead. It has the LGs "True Cinema" toggle in settings though, which apparently in new models means 72hz, but when doing a custom resolution with 72hz, it drops frames and is still 60hz really.Maybe you should not do a custom resolution for 72Hz, you should do one for 24Hz. The conversion to 72 probably happens "behind the scenes" inside the TV.
This is what happens on my Kuro with Advanced PureCinema settings. It takes a 24fps source and it does 3:3 pulldown to display it at 72Hz (but you never see anywhere on the display info any reference to 72Hz).

[YxP]

@SamuelMaki

Make sure you are not sacrificing 4:4:4 when doing something else than 60hz. My TV is also pretty old and anything else than 1920x1080@60hz will activate TV's own processing.

[johnnylaiyee]

@SamuelMaki

Bear in mind that 47.952 is also achievable for perfect playback.

My LG 65UH8500 handles 47.952 better than 23.976

[oldpainlesskodi]

Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

Clean install of Win 10 (pre CU) x64. latest Madvr. Gtx 1080 Strix.

My problem -

Playing some files in FSE gives dropped frames, but no dropped frames in non-fse. both dx11, with the default buffer settings set for non-fse and fse.

Mediainfo for such a file:

Complete name : E:\Videos\4K Video Downloader\The_World_in_HDR_in_4K_HDR10.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
File size : 308 MiB
Duration : 2 min 34 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 16.7 Mb/s
Movie name : The World in HDR in 4K - Demo-UHD3D.com
Encoded date : UTC 2017-04-24 13:38:07
Writing application : mkvmerge v11.0.0 ('Alive') 64bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.4 + libmatroska v1.4.5

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 min 34 s
Bit rate : 16.6 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 59.940 FPS
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.033
Stream size : 306 MiB (99%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : Vorbis
Format settings, Floor : 1
Codec ID : A_VORBIS
Duration : 2 min 34 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 128 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate : 48.199 FPS (915 spf)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 2.02 MiB (1%)
Writing application : Google
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No


Cheers

K

UPDATE:

Lowered by GPU queue down to 4 and used jinc to render at 4k and its fine. Odd, would have thought a GTX 1080 strix would have no problem with a 4k HDR clip @ 60fps.

Update 2:

FSE kinda works now if I use copyback (cpu maxes at 30% (4x4.4 ghz) and gpu queue of 4. Odd things is, here's by GPU stats playing the file?

GPU clock max 2139 mhz
Mem clock 10962 mhz
GPU Temp max 57c
GPU usage 86% max
Mem usage 2564 out of 8191 mb

If using cpu instead of copyback, my cpu jumps to 100% and its a mess.

Final Update - resolved.

[mzso]

if you can't force deinterlancing with the hotkey than this should be a bug in madVR.

i guess you need to ask a different progDVB user if it works for him. so nothing i can do anymore.

So, did anyone else run into deinterlacing issues?

What could cause it's non functioning even if it's set to "on" via hotkey?

[Paul Tronc]

Hello,

I currently have a chuwi hi13 which embed the 3000x2000 display of the last surface pro, together with a Celeron N3450 (Intel Apollo Lake Quad Core with Intel HD 500).

I tried to set the combo mpchc + LAV + madvr (all 32bits), with the lowest settings, using the hardware as much as possible : LAV -> quicksync (i tried DXVA2), madvr upscaling -> DXVA2 (I tried other options like bicubic with no change).

When I launch any x264 1080p movie mpchc says "hardware acceleration" is active. But despite of this I get about 50ms rendering time with a lot of frame drop and stuttering image.

The default windows 10 movie player plays rather smoothly, but I'd prefer to fine tune the rendering using madvr. I expected to be able to enable smooth motion, to be honnest. I think hardware acceleration is not correctly used.

Could you remind me which are the recommended settings for such hardware?

[huhn]

a to slow decoded video shouldn't effect the rendertimes or with other word your GPU can't handle it.

intel iGPU are throttling heavily with temps and cpu usage there is no much you can do with a low end GPU and an over 1080p screen.

[SamuelMaki]

Maybe you should not do a custom resolution for 72Hz, you should do one for 24Hz. The conversion to 72 probably happens "behind the scenes" inside the TV.
This is what happens on my Kuro with Advanced PureCinema settings. It takes a 24fps source and it does 3:3 pulldown to display it at 72Hz (but you never see anywhere on the display info any reference to 72Hz).

Figured to quote only this, of course read the others too.

Well, I tested it with 72hz custom resolution AND 48hz one. Both drop frames in the smoothness tests and simple things like doing scrolling is more stuttering than with windows set to 60hz. As the display still continues to be refreshed near 60hz regardless of what signal it is sent to it.

If smoothmotion only gives a tad of blending on it, I guess I can live with that nicely, so going to just ditch the TV's processing and go for 59/60hz display with smoothmotion and reclock. At least the movie I watched seemed more smooth this way (and didn't have to add audio delay for the processing).

Thanks for the help, was not entirely sure what kind of stuff TV manufacturers advertise as "true 24p" nowadays. Hopefully the marketing bullshit gets done with as modern panels support better ranges natively.

[QBhd]

Don't use ReClock with Smoothmotion enabled... They are opposing forces.

QB

[el Filou]

Don't use ReClock with Smoothmotion enabled... They are opposing forces.

QBMmmmh not really: ReClock syncs the video to the graphics card output clock, while smoothmotion converts framerate. You could use 59/60 Hz and still have missed/repeated frames if the player and the gfx clock are not in sync and ReClock fixes that, though I admit modern graphics cards have more precise clocking and modern renderers are better at this and it's less a problem than in the past.

[XMonarchY]

Could someone recommend me settings for playing 4K HEVC 10bit content on my 1080p TV for smooth playback? Obviously the settings I use to play 1080p content are too heavy to play 4K content smoothly.

[huhn]

Don't use ReClock with Smoothmotion enabled... They are opposing forces.

QB

thry work together fine but with a close refresh rate reclock alone is enough.
with a not matching refreshrate relclock is not that useful and smoothmotion is.

Mmmmh not really: ReClock syncs the video to the graphics card output clock, while smoothmotion converts framerate. You could use 59/60 Hz and still have missed/repeated frames if the player and the gfx clock are not in sync and ReClock fixes that, though I admit modern graphics cards have more precise clocking and modern renderers are better at this and it's less a problem than in the past.

with smoothmotion you are not repeating/dropping frames. they are shown in the OSD with every "number" but it is not going to happen.

and modern GPU are not better than older ones. there is simply more than 1 clock generator in a system and that the core of the problem.

[Damien147]

@Madshi

Is it hard and a lot of work to add frame interpolation??

[foozoor]

@Madshi

Is it hard and a lot of work to add frame interpolation??

Probably! But is it still useful and could he make better than his competitors?

[ryrynz]

Doubt it's going to happen, you already have TV hardware solutions that offer good interpolation and SVP as well.
A mix of interpolation for frames that don't create any artifacts and blending the rest (Smoothmotion) might be interesting but a lot of work.

[70MM]

@Madshi

Is it hard and a lot of work to add frame interpolation??

I would love to see that

[huhn]

you are limited to 5/2 interpolation with our current 60 hz input screen. TVs don't have to do a 5/2 interpolation so they are so far ahead adding frame interpolation before that is just "limited" to say it friendly.

[Dclose]

Doubling is always enabled, but quadrupling is not. So if you upscale more than 200%, the "<-- upscaling" algo might be used, if quadrupling isn't active.

I use madVR every day because it's the best renderer I know of even without doubling/upscaling. Having just updated it now from a 2016 version, it'd be disappointing if there's no option to turn off doubling/upscaling.

I'm not sure if doubling is forced on Lanczos/Spline/Jinc, etc. My GPU seems to be turning on 3D clocks more than it used to, but I updated GPU drivers and some settings at the same time as updating madVR, so I don't know if the GPU seemingly using more power is related to the updated madVR.

I'm posting about this because upscaling kicks my GPU up, uses more power, creates more heat, creates more noise. Plenty of video I watch I don't "need" in best possible quality, which is why my everyday madVR setting uses Spline, not NGU. Less power, less heat, less noise. But forced upscaling counters that. In one of my computer rooms that lacks airflow, that might be the difference between having to turn on the room's noisy air-conditioning or not turning it on.

And when turning on super-xbr or NGU, forced upscaling might mean having to turn off some Image Enhancements which might be preferred at the time. Though from what I can tell and remember, newer madVR versions have made great strides in lowering power usage compared to older versions.

As I said, even without doubling/upscaling, madVR still looks better than other renderers. But madVR uses more power than other renderers, though not much on lower settings, so it'd be a shame if madVR had its minimum power usage forced even higher which might cause some people to go back to other renderers unless wanting to use more power with forced doubling, etc.

I know you're always trying to simplify madVR, but I figured I'd post this to give a voice to power usage and heat and how more people than expected may be juggling settings to get the best power/quality ratio and not simply trying to get the best picture at any cost. Power is less of a concern with newer, more efficient video cards, but it's still a concern.

edit: of course a lot of the "upscaling" words above I meant "doubling."

[Dclose]

Remove Spline ? It is one of the best algorithm for upscaling... It is almost as sharp as Lanczos, but without the strong ringing artifacts.
Why is it not proposed anymore for this in new versions ? For those who can't afford Jinc, it is a valid choice.
I've posted before about being a Spline fan for everyday use for its quality/power ratio, as well as like you said, it's almost as sharp as Lanczos and it can make video not look as over-processed like Lanczos. In multiple ways, Spline seems to be a good all-around everyday choice.

I've never been much of a Jinc fan, and it uses more power too.

[huhn]

madVR is not always "doubling" a algorithm that can only do doubling is well doubling.
if you are using spline "nothing" really changed since 2016 it is working exactly like before and the GPU load should be the same.

[SweetLow]

I expected to be able to enable smooth motion, to be honnest.

it's relatively expensive on large surfaces and this is your case (3000*2000).

I think hardware acceleration is not correctly used.

Check debug OSD, probably with ShowRenderSteps option enabled.

[JarrettH]

I'd love to see smooth motion match the sharpness of the original. Thanks for the great feature. :cool:

[Paul Tronc]

Thank you for your help regarding my 3000x2000 device, finally the best optimized solution is the native windows 10 player. I can read 1080p and even 4K HEVC content with no visible frame drop, it is smooth enough for a 13.5" display. Even if I would have appreciated a bit more of sharpness, that'll be far enough for my needs. By the way, I also tried using the basic shaders of MPC-HC with no luck.

[XMonarchY]

Could someone recommend me settings for playing 4K HEVC 10bit content on my 1080p TV for smooth playback? Obviously the settings I use to play 1080p content are too heavy to play 4K content smoothly.

Bumping this one - I don't even know where to start. I use best image quality settings for 1080p content playback, but have no idea which ones to try for 4K content. I assume any type of Chroma, Luma, Image, and any other type of upscaling should be set to bilinear or somehow turned off? I assume that since the image is already upscaled and just needs to be downscaled from 4K to 1080p?

[clsid]

Chroma is normally first upscaled to match luma resolution. Then both are downscaled.

The chroma scaling can be skipped. With "trade quality for performance" setting "scale chroma separately if it saves performance".

Then you only need to adjust image downscaling. Image upscaling isn't used in your case.

[XMonarchY]

Chroma is normally first upscaled to match luma resolution. Then both are downscaled.

The chroma scaling can be skipped. With "trade quality for performance" setting "scale chroma separately if it saves performance".

Then you only need to adjust image downscaling. Image upscaling isn't used in your case.

I use SSIM 2D @ 100% strength with Scale in Linear Light + AR Filter (Relaxed). I guess SSIM is out of the question for such content.

Thank you for helping me out!

EDIT: Even Bilinear image downscaling results in massive dropped frames... Could someone with similar specs share the settings they use to play 4K content on their 1080p displays???
EDIT 2: DXVA2 downscaling works!

[huhn]

disable "always supersampling" and it will work.

[rahzel]

I'm a long time user of madVR but I haven't kept up with these newer advanced scaling algorithms as my HTPC isn't the best, and I haven't updated madVR in a while. I have been using jinc+AR for image upscaling/chroma for years and previously used Catmull+LL+AR for downscaling. I finally updated madVR because I reinstalled Windows on my HTPC and noticed Catmull was gone, so I decided to look into all the new scaling options to see what's best and test what the best scalers my slower rig can handle (Radeon 7750 1GB GDDR5 & Celeron G1620).

I mostly view 720p/1080p film sources that are fairly clean on my 1080p plasma.

I tried my best to read through the thread to get answers and settled on these settings:
Chroma - NGU AA Low (edit: switched to super-xbr 100, NGU AA Low was a bit too much for my GPU)
Image upscaling - NGU AA Low
Image Downscaling - Bicubic 150 + AR (edit: switched back to bicubic50/catmull)
(under 'trade quality for performance') don't use linear light for dithering is unchecked
Smooth motion enabled when needed
Render times for the videos I tested never exceeded 28 or 29ms.

Few questions:
1) Is there anything you guys would suggest changing?
2) Previously it was recommended to scale using linear light when downscaling with Catmull. Is it still recommended to check this box with Cubic 150?
3) Should I keep 'don't use linear light for dithering' checked if that means I can afford to use higher settings for image/chroma scaling?

[huhn]

1. i personally think bicubic 150 is terrible. it can create very ugly motion artifacts. cat rom mull is still in madVR it's bicubic 50 they are the same.
2. depends on the scaler. i still think it is good on bicubic 50.
3. i can't notice a performance difference.

[rahzel]

1. i personally think bicubic 150 is terrible. it can create very ugly motion artifacts. cat rom mull is still in madVR it's bicubic 50 they are the same.
2. depends on the scaler. i still think it is good on bicubic 50.
3. i can't notice a performance difference.
Ah, didn't see catmull there, thanks. I guess I'll just go back to it.

Note that I changed the chroma scaler to super xbr 100... NGU low was a bit too much for my GPU to handle.

[Siso]

Isn't super xbr way more sharper than jinc for chroma? Why do you guys prefer it over jinc?

[rahzel]

Isn't super xbr way more sharper than jinc for chroma? Why do you guys prefer it over jinc?
Admittedly, I haven't actually compared for myself yet. I find differences in chroma harder to spot personally, so I haven't took the time to look. I simply took one poster's advice earlier in this thread, and since my GPU seems to handle it OK for my viewing content, that's what I have it set to right now.

It's probably a personal preference thing, and probably depends on the type of content you're watching too.

FWIW, I used Jinc+AR before and had no complaints. I read a lot of posts where people liked NGU for chroma, but it's a little too much for my weaker GPU. And I can't seem to find any posts comparing Jinc and super xbr for chroma.

[no1d]

I think, when I have "don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected" option disabled, subtitles are flashing sometimes. Are there any workarounds for it?

[n3w813]

Hi, I enabled "10 bit (or higher) in MadVR last night since my new Vizio TV supports a 10bit input and I've got some 10bit source materials. I've also set my Nvidia GTX1080 to output yCbCr 4:2:2 with 10bpc. Couple of questions...

1. Is it normal to take 10-15 seconds to switch in and out of fullscreen exclusive mode when using 10bit in Madvr? Also, during the 10-15s switch, the screen is displaying a full screen of snow with varying colors. Switching MadVR back to "8 bit" fixes this issue. Is this how it is or is there some configuration I'm not setting correctly?

2. In the thread by James Freeman regarding 10 bit output, he states that Nvidia should be set to output 8 bpc instead of 10 because of some errors introduced. Is this still the case?

3. Anyhow, is it still in my best interest to use MadVR/TV Levels, Nvidia/RGB 8bpc Full range, and TV/Limited to avoid unnecessary levels conversion? Or is the quality of the conversion in the new Nvidia video cards good enough that one can use the limited YCbCr modes without quality issues?

Thanks :)

[huhn]

1. TV can take ages to switch modes there is nothing madVR can do about that.

2. not sure what you mean.

3. like always a full full range RGB chain is preferable.

[YxP]

Hi, I enabled "10 bit (or higher) in MadVR last night since my new Vizio TV supports a 10bit input and I've got some 10bit source materials.

Your TV's panel most likely isn't 10bit so personally I wouldn't pay that kind of price for outputting 10bit. Look at the picture, take a screenie /j , compare.

[Cynical edit]

I forgot jokes and sarcasm require /s or /j nowadays so just adding /j to the screenie part.

[n3w813]

Your TV's panel most likely isn't 10bit so personally I wouldn't pay that kind of price for outputting 10bit. Look at the picture, take a screenie /j , compare.

[Cynical edit]

I forgot jokes and sarcasm require /s or /j nowadays so just adding /j to the screenie part.

Is your entire statement sarcasm or just the screenie part?

I'm certain my Vizio P75-C1 is a 10bit native panel. And what price are you talking about?

[YxP]

Just the screenie :) If you have native 10bit then that might be ok, but MadVR might still make the benefit almost imperceptible.

[let's edit again edit]

The price you pay if you really have to wait 10-15s. I'm sorry I really should stop editing my posts and/or just maybe not post at all.

[Magik Mark]

I'm not sure if this has been answered. It seems I can't find it in this thread.

I'm having problem in PERMANENTLY setting the BRIGHTNESS to -15. Once I have changed it to -15 it just won't stick. It resets back to 0 once a new video is played.

Is there a way to permanently set it to -15?

[ryrynz]

Setting it to anything should set it permanently. I've tested it and it's fine here in one of my profiles.
Try resetting to defaults and or creating a profile.

[Ver Greeneyes]

I'm pretty sure the brightness is a per-video thing. One thing you can do is change the name of the directory containing the video files to include "brightness=-15" (without the quotes).

[Magik Mark]

I'm pretty sure the brightness is a per-video thing. One thing you can do is change the name of the directory containing the video files to include "brightness=-15" (without the quotes).

This is exactly what I'm experiencing. EveryTime you play a video you need to change the brightness.

Is there a way to automatically apply this? If you check the brightness setting while playing a video, you would always see "0" regardless if change was made in the setting

[mzso]

This is exactly what I'm experiencing. EveryTime you play a video you need to change the brightness.

Is there a way to automatically apply this? If you check the brightness setting while playing a video, you would always see "0" regardless if change was made in the setting

You need to configure your display properly. I'm quite sure these settings are for correcting videos' flaws.