madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

Madshi, I'm wondering what are the chances are of having debanding affect files within a particular folder rather than just using filenames? It would be pretty cool to maybe have it say disabled by default but files within a subfolder say cartoons for example having a particular deband preset loaded automatically, this was always one of my wishes for ffdshow automatic preset loading.
I've not tested it, but could try whether the madVR file name tags also work when used in the parent folder name.

I ISF calibrated my display @BT.709. There also appears an option where I can choose between 'PURE POWER CURVE' or
'BT.709/601 CURVE'. For both I can choose 1.80-2.60 with 0.5 steps. Which curve does what? And do I set the gamma value on the average gamma result of my calibration?
According to your report you should probably set madVR to BT.709 primaries/gamut with a pure power curve of 2.4.

I guess it might need the method of comparing with material pattern library to distinguish what level of processing should be applied. As I have heard, it is part of the super resolution engine processing in Sony's X-Reality PRO (XCA7 for 2K, XCA8 for 4K) and Toshiba's.

X-Reality_Pro (http://www.sony-asia.com/microsite/bravia/assets/X-Reality_Pro/)

But it means more GPU computing power is required to do the comparison if it also contains the temporal frame's comparison. Maybe extra 300% ~ 500% computing / memory bandwidth loading? :p
Company marketing departments like to make everything sound more like "alien technology" than it really is. I think what Sony does is use some database of learned image structures to improve upscaling quality. Basically NNEDI3 does the same thing. But still, THX-UltraII just reported (and he's not the first one) that madVR's Jinc3 AR seems to outperform Sony's upscaling algorithm. And Jinc3 AR should be inferior to NNEDI3. So there you see how much worth you can put into marketing bla bla of CE companies.

Of course it would be possible to create an algorithm based on the NNEDI3 algorithm to do debanding (or sharpening or [...]) only to specific image patterns, but the cost of such an algorithm is enormous, at least if the database has a decent size. NNEDI3 is pretty slow. I believe 300-500% is a much too modest estimate...

Did not have time yet for extensive testing but my first findings are that the HTPC (madVR) scaling outperforms Reality Creation on the VW1000.
Good to hear! When you do extensive testing, please let us know about your results.

Good News.

JanWillem32 from this board helped (actually he written all of it) me write a customizable 3 section gamma control.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1650230#post1650230

Works like charm for a highly custom BT.1886 curve.

No more over bright BT.1886 shadows !!!
You can change from what point YOU like, to how much Brighter YOU like. :D

I use only the lower part to brighten the shadows (emulate BT.1886 to my taste).
Looks better and a lot faster (no waiting for calibration).

No more Crushed Blacks, OR , Raised Blacks.
Set it exactly where you like it (matches your viewing environment and Monitor).
You can change the black level below a certain point without touching anything above it.

You can also raise the MadVR gamma to 2.6 (for a deeper picture) and NOT LOSE ANY SHADOW DETAIL.
This is just perfect !!!

Again, thanks to JanWillem32.
That's the beauty of custom pixels shaders. You can do a lot of nice things without me having to do anything. And it automatically works for EVR/VMR, too.

Yes, I have a number of videos which show improvements from gradient values above 2.

Well a "high" setting would be for when debanding matters more than detail preservation.
Any luck on new middle/high presets? :)

[6233638]

Any luck on new middle/high presets? :)Sorry, things have been busy lately, and I really haven't had the time to do any testing this weekend.

[THX-UltraII]

You seem to be calibrated to 2.40 gamma. It shouldn't affect anything unless you also enable gamma processing though, which you should not need when it's already calibrated externally.

The short version is: don't enable it for upscaling.

Below black and above white information should not be visible.Thanks for your replies. About the calibration option: What I meant is that I HAVE to choose between 'PURE POWER CURVE' and 'BT.709/601 CURVE' so was looking for an explanation of the difference between those two and which one is the one you suggest to choose in my situation.

[leeperry]

Hi madshi, so I got a 2GB HD7850 updated to the latest 10/13 drivers(AMD didn't drop XP support despite of the hearsay) and when I open a movie in PotP, it opens in 960*540(as I set in my default PotP profile) but if I have FRC enabled, the video blinks like hell? Once I go FS and then windowed again, it doesn't blink anymore and it never does if FRC is disabled.

This problem doesn't happen if I have mVR's OSD enabled.

Refresh rate is properly detected as far as mVR's OSD can tell and this problem doesn't occur at all when I have a custom 3DLUT PS script enabled(a mirroring custom PS script gives some mirrored psychedelic effect), very strange...I'll hit you with log files in case you would like to investigate the problem but this is a non-blocking issue for me so no rush/biggy at all.

Also, the new rendering path is a GPU hog that goes all the way to 100% load but no biggy again as I've always been happy with the old one :)

JanWillem32 [..] wrote a customizable 3 section gamma control.
w00t, perfect timing! :thanks:

[zoyd]

And Madshi, when you have some spare time left, could you check this thread on the AVS community where I started a discussion about BTB and WTW clipping:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/4800_100#post_23876711

Read from post #4822 to #4830.

What you think about it? It is suggested there to put madVR to 16-235 so BTB and WTW does not get clipped......

If you don't want above white clipped:

The background in this pattern is video level 254 and all codes up to 253 are visible. madVR is set to 16-235 and video card is set to full range RGB over hdmi.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/28/a6anebym.jpg

[agustin9]

I have 230-234 flashing only, madvr set to full range, i think that's ok.

[DragonQ]

I have 230-234 flashing only, madvr set to full range, i think that's ok.

Yeah it's probably fine. WTW isn't exactly the most important thing about getting video playback right.

There's a downside to whatever solution you choose: even if your renderer is outputting 16-235 video and your GPU outputting 0-255, and your display is calibrated accordingly, you'll have access to BTB and WTW but you'll also be clipping blacks and whites in any desktop programs.

[THX-UltraII]

For the BTB and WTW discussion. See the reply from 6233638 a few posts back:

Below black and above white information should not be visible.

[DragonQ]

Well my TV doesn't allow me to clip whites above 235 so...

[Werewolfy]

@madshi

I was wondering, is there a reason why in this kind of scene it debands so little? There is so little difference between debanding off and my current medium preset (the low preset doesn't do anything) and I have to increase every values very (too) much to obtain a good result.

http://imageshack.us/a/img20/5452/jx5n.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/jx5n.png/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img826/5957/3m1a.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/3m1a.png/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img820/6421/y89.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/y89.png/)

[Asmodian]

Well my TV doesn't allow me to clip whites above 235 so...

If you need to simply set madVR to output 16-235.

[dansrfe]

I'm not sure if the answer to this is obvious, but why does a calibration shift over a period of time? I calibrated my monitor's using madshi's method in the madVR and ArgyllCMS thread on AVS and the gamma and color temperature shifts a bit only after around a week of usage. Is this due to aging of the actual LCD crystals or the variability of power delivered by the LCD pixel board?

[6233638]

I'm not sure if the answer to this is obvious, but why does a calibration shift over a period of time? I calibrated my monitor's using madshi's method in the madVR and ArgyllCMS thread on AVS and the gamma and color temperature shifts a bit only after around a week of usage. Is this due to aging of the actual LCD crystals or the variability of power delivered by the LCD pixel board?Ageing, temperature, uniformity of the display and how consistent you are about meter positioning etc.

LED displays tend to be more consistent over time, and require less warm-up time before calibration than CCFL displays.
Higher-end displays may include things like temperature compensation, and have designs that are more stable over time.

[DragonQ]

If you need to simply set madVR to output 16-235.
I don't need to, and I can't use MadVR on my HTPC anyway. I just have the contrast set to a comfortable level and get very nice whites.

On my other PCs with standard monitors, I obviously have MadVR set to 0-255.

[dansrfe]

Ageing, temperature, uniformity of the display and how consistent you are about meter positioning etc.

LED displays tend to be more consistent over time, and require less warm-up time before calibration than CCFL displays.
Higher-end displays may include things like temperature compensation, and have designs that are more stable over time.

Maybe I did something wrong in the warm-up process. Is there anything I should specifically display on the monitor during the warm-up? Also, should it be at max back light levels during this time?

[James Freeman]

1. Is there anything I should specifically display on the monitor during the warm-up?
2. Also, should it be at max back light levels during this time?

LCD does not age THAT quickly.
I had my previous calibration for a year, and it has not budged compared to the new one.

Its probably the Calibration device warming up on the screen.
If you have the older i1 Display 2 or Spyder 3, leave them on the screen for a few minutes.

i1 Display Pro (i1D3) has Excellent heat compensation (negative feedback) so its ready to go.
No need to warm up.

1. No,
What the pixels are showing has nothing to do with the backlight.
Each crystal pixel is controlled by a transistor, according to the input signal and is ready to go right away.

2. You can, but you don't have to.
Maximizing the backlight will make the bulbs warm faster.
As CCFL is also controller by PWM, after warmup just lower it to the desired level.


Just wait 30 minutes like everybody else.:rolleyes:

[dansrfe]

Cool, thanks. I'm using the i1 Display Pro (i1D3) so I guess I just need to wait out the full 30 mins like you said and that should do it.

[ryrynz]

I was wondering, is there a reason why in this kind of scene it debands so little?


My guess is that because of the extreme banding you actually require a reasonably high avgdif value, so not sure why you're expecting such a small value like 1.1 to actually do much in this instance.

[Werewolfy]

Avgdif alone doesn't change anything, I have to increase every values. I'm surprise because I don't find it's extreme banding, I thought that a medium preset would at least do something.

[Razoola]

Going on a little from this BTB and WTW discussion and this will give a few different examples.... I have a plasma that can accept both limited and full range through HDMI via a receiver.

If I set the panel to accept full range signal I get the following results using AVSHD basic patterns.

PS3 set to 'Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr' (superwhite off) with full output over HDMI (for reference my PS3 shares same HDMI input on panel through my AV receiver as my PC which runs madVR)
- black = 16
- white = 235
If I set the PS3 super white on.
- black = 16
- white = 242

Now for MadVR with PC set to output YCbCr444 or RGB fullrange.

MADVR with PC levels 0-255
- black = 16
- white = 235

MADVR with PC levels 16-235
- black = 2
- white = 253

The only way I can get WTW output via the PC and madVR is to use custom output levels in MadVR instead of either 0-255 or 16-235. Other than that I think the numbers above make sense.

The other option is to set the panel to limited, then I get as follows.

MADVR with PC levels 0-255
(gfx card output RGB)
- black = not on chart.
- white = not on chart
(gfx card output YCbCr444)
- black = 2
- white = 253

MADVR with PC levels 16-235
(gfx card output RGB)
- black = 16
- white = 242
(gfx card output YCbCr444)
- black = 2
- white = 253

I feel a lot of issues people have with WTW is related to the gfx card setting rather than madVR. That said I must admit I'm somewhat confused about what the best settings are given some people say one thing and some the other.

From my findings above my best options are either;

- panel set to 'limited', madVR set to '16-235' and gfx card set to 'RGB'. I get WTW

- panel set to 'full', madVR set to ' 0-255' and gfx card set to either 'RGB' or 'YCbCr444'. I do not get WTW.

So the question becomes which of the 2 is better, one allows WTW via madVR, the other does not. Much the same as turning the super white option on and off on the PS3. Is WTW even important?

Also, is there any gfx card processing going on when comparing RGB over YCbCr444 with NVidia graphic cards? Clearly there is something going on as my 2nd set of numbers don't make sense.

[QBhd]

One other thing to realize is that madVR is assuming that those test patterns are limited range (pull up the OSD) and that changes things. From what I understand, the best setup is to have everything in your chain setup up to output Full Range (0-255) and madVR will do it's magic properly. madVR full, GPU full, Receiver (if you have one) full, TV full. Then when using those test patterns, if you want to see the WTW and BTB you tell madVR that the input is Full range (Ctrl+Shft+I I think since I don't have madVR running right now). The only time you should be telling madVR to output limited range is when you have a TV or Receiver that can not do full.

QB

[Razoola]

One other thing to realize is that madVR is assuming that those test patterns are limited range (pull up the OSD) and that changes things. From what I understand, the best setup is to have everything in your chain setup up to output Full Range (0-255) and madVR will do it's magic properly. madVR full, GPU full, Receiver (if you have one) full, TV full. Then when using those test patterns, if you want to see the WTW and BTB you tell madVR that the input is Full range (Ctrl+Shft+I I think since I don't have madVR running right now). The only time you should be telling madVR to output limited range is when you have a TV or Receiver that can not do full.

QB

That is not strictly true because using Ctrl+alt+shift+I does not allow WTW in the test.

The only way I can get WTW with everything set to full without disturbing the absolute black level is to set a custom level. It does not make sense because using 0-255 does not work when you expect it should. If I use a custom level setting in madVR the results are weird with the AVSHD white clipping test (picture of the test I'm using posted on the previous page of this thread). It goes as follows.

custom level set at 0-255 = white at 235
custom level set at 0-253 = white at 237
custom level set at 0-250 = white at 239
custom level set at 0-248 = white at 242

and so on.

[MSL_DK]

I hope it's okay to post my query here.

On behalf of Luke, who does an amazing job with Media Browser 3, I seek someone who can help with this issue: fullscreen exclusive mode is not active (http://mediabrowser3.com/community/index.php?/topic/1564-internal-player-dropped-frames/?p=32193)

Some screenshots of MB3 internal player

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111324524/Images%20for%20Sharing/MB3/1.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111324524/Images%20for%20Sharing/MB3/2.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111324524/Images%20for%20Sharing/MB3/3.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111324524/Images%20for%20Sharing/MB3/4.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111324524/Images%20for%20Sharing/MB3/5.JPG

[LilScrappy]

Please for help how to play Chroma upscaling - Jinc 3 + AR, when i play began lose lots of frames and interrupted video ?
i'm with intel i5 3550, 8 GB Ram, asrock z77 pro4-m, no video card !

[sebdelsol]

@MSL_DK
I've learned how to do a directshow player based on this code : DirectShowPlayer.cs (https://github.com/MediaBrowser/MediaBrowser.Theater/blob/master/MediaBrowser.Theater.DirectShow/DirectShowPlayer.cs) so I quite know this code :)
Is this the last version of the internal player ?

I guess there's an issue in MadvrInterface.EnableExclusiveMode(bool enable, MadVR madvr) where eModeControl.DisableExclusiveMode(pBool) is called with the wrong value: pBool should be false when enable is true, so that exclusive mode is not disabled.
If the iVideoWindow is the exact size of the screen (which seems to be the case) it would fix the issue :)

[detmek]

Please for help how to play Chroma upscaling - Jinc 3 + AR, when i play began lose lots of frames and interrupted video ?
i'm with intel i5 3550, 8 GB Ram, asrock z77 pro4-m, no video card !

madVR uses graphic card for its job. So, unless you have powerfull GPU you can not use demanding settings like Jinc3 + AR.

[ThurstonX]

Please for help how to play Chroma upscaling - Jinc 3 + AR, when i play began lose lots of frames and interrupted video ?
i'm with intel i5 3550, 8 GB Ram, asrock z77 pro4-m, no video card !

I've not had much luck with Jinc 3 + AR using almost the same setup. I'd switch chroma to Bicubic 75 + AR, and maybe Jinc 3 + AR for image/luma. For some sources that's worked for me.

Good luck.

[Asmodian]

The only way I can get WTW with everything set to full without disturbing the absolute black level is to set a custom level. It does not make sense because using 0-255 does not work when you expect it should.

You do not want to see WTW (unless you are playing full range content). I assume PS3's superwhite is for incorrect displays.

Now for MadVR with PC set to output YCbCr444 or RGB fullrange.

MADVR with PC levels 0-255
- black = 16
- white = 235

Looks correct.

[LilScrappy]

I've not had much luck with Jinc 3 + AR using almost the same setup. I'd switch chroma to Bicubic 75 + AR, and maybe Jinc 3 + AR for image/luma. For some sources that's worked for me.
Good luck.
what is minimum video card from ATI i need to play correctly this jinc 3 AR options ?

[Qaq]

what is minimum video card from ATI i need to play correctly this jinc 3 AR options ?
According to renethx (AVS) its a 7770. 7750 GDDR5 (I have one) is not enough for some sources.

[leeperry]

what is minimum video card from ATI i need to play correctly this jinc 3 AR options ?
7850 IME, it comes with a 256bit bus which helps. 1080p J3AR chroma upscaling + 60Hz FRC loads the GPU to 65%.

The 7790 would be too slow when there's also luma to upscale IMO, for instance the 650Ti barely makes it.

[TheElix]

Something legendary is cooking in this thread right now.

[LilScrappy]

Please for compare shots with chroma upscaling because i have only problem with chroma upscaling when put options to Jinc 3 AR with others no problem and video is played well!
i want to see that there is a big difference when is active, give me a reason to buy video card AMD HD7850 or HD7870 for future!

[ryrynz]

Don't bother with Jinc AR for Chroma. Waste of resources, you won't see any significant difference unless your display is capable of 4:4:4.

[LilScrappy]

Don't bother with Jinc AR for Chroma. Waste of resources, you won't see any significant difference unless your display is capable of 4:4:4.
what you mean, i watch with HDMI to my plasma 50B650, when play 4:2:2 encode or 4:2:0 maybe with jinc 3 AR chroma will be better in picture dont know ?
or chroma be best when encode is 4:4:4 ?

[James Freeman]

few noob question:

1. How to "use" the 4:4:4 test picture from the first page, (I use a PC monitor) what should I see?
If I use a TV which only supports "lesser" chroma (<4:4:4), what should I see?

2. Is there use for Upscaling at all when watching HD content on an HD monitor?

3. Bluray 4:2:0 Chroma, still need Upsampling to 4:4:4 when watching on a PC monitor?

[ryrynz]

what you mean, i watch with HDMI to my plasma 50B650, when play 4:2:2 encode or 4:2:0 maybe with jinc 3 AR chroma will be better in picture dont know ?
or chroma be best when encode is 4:4:4 ?

Just use Bicubic 75 with AR for chroma.

[LilScrappy]

Just use Bicubic 75 with AR for chroma.
ok i test later, what to use for Image Upscaling and Image downscaling ?

[leeperry]

1. How to "use" the 4:4:4 test picture from the first page, (I use a PC monitor) what should I see?
If I use a TV which only supports "lesser" chroma (<4:4:4), what should I see?

2. Is there use for Upscaling at all when watching HD content on an HD monitor?

3. Bluray 4:2:0 Chroma, still need Upsampling to 4:4:4 when watching on a PC monitor?

1. You can find real-world test results here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1640299&postcount=19843).

2/3. 4:2:0 YV12 chroma conversion to 4:4:4 RGB has to be upscaled.

give me a reason to buy video card AMD HD7850 or HD7870
I'm no AMD sales rep and indeed J3AR chroma wouldn't make much sense if your TV doesn't accept 4:4:4 input to begin with.

[Rinzler]

When I use EVR, MPC shows that uses DXVA in status bar.
http://puu.sh/53NCc.png
How do I know that MPC-HC with madVR is using DXVA?

[michkrol]

When I use EVR, MPC shows that uses DXVA in status bar.
How do I know that MPC-HC with madVR is using DXVA?

Works the same way here with madVR.
Try checking your decoder's info under the play->filters menu.
Take note, it only shows DXVA when using native, not copy-back/CUVID/QuickSync.
MadVR's own OSD also show this info (CTRL+J to show/hide).

Perhaps try updating MPC-HC? The nightly builds from nightly.mpc-hc.org get the bleeding edge features.

[Rinzler]

http://puu.sh/53P5v.png

It works I guess. One more question. Does it make sense to use madVR if I don't have discrete graphics card? I have Intel i5-3570K with HD Graphics 4000.

[ThurstonX]

what is minimum video card from ATI i need to play correctly this jinc 3 AR options ?

Sorry, can't answer for minimum, but I use a 5670 and a 6670 (both 1 GB passive Sapphire versions), and they play most things with Jinc 3 + AR for both chroma and image scaling. You need to think about what you're trying to render. I don't have any 1080p stuff to test with, no 60 fps.

[ThurstonX]

ok i test later, what to use for Image Upscaling and Image downscaling ?

Try Jinc 3 + AR for image. If it works, great. I think the consensus for downscaling is Catmull-Rom with AR and "scale in linear light".

[LilScrappy]

i have problem with editing the setting after play video all is good but no have icon to edit,
When restart PC first play i have shans to edit but second play again have this error message, any from here to know how to fix ?
http://i.imgur.com/lB2R7A0.jpg

[kasper93]

When I use EVR, MPC shows that uses DXVA in status bar.
http://puu.sh/53NCc.png
How do I know that MPC-HC with madVR is using DXVA?

DXVA status has been fixed recently in mpc-hc. Use latest nightly :)

Tapatalk 4 @ GT-I9300

[Rinzler]

I've made couple comparisons and don't see any differences between EVR (custom presenter) and madVR. What am I doing wrong?

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/46979

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/46975

[baii]

I've made couple comparisons and don't see any differences between EVR (custom presenter) and madVR. What am I doing wrong?

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/46979

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/46975

I think for good source w/o any upscaling, the PQ is really close.

Though for EVR, you don't get options such as smooth motion or color management.

[sebdelsol]

Good to know that EVR shows the same problem. That saves me some worry. My suggestion would be to temporarily disable madVR's fullscreen exclusive mode by using madVR's custom interfaces (see developers\interfaces\mvrInterfaces.h). And then to re-enable it once your windows are all fully setup etc. This way you don't have to do weird things to the window size, which might reduce/remove the flickering. Other than that I don't know what to say...


It doesn't work since the IvideoWindow is stuck behind its parent window in windowed fullscreen mode too.
In this case alt+TAB shows the madVR IvideoWindow.

I've stumbled upon another weird thing on my ATI. I've begun to code a more responsive OSD with IOsdServices::OsdSetRenderCallback. It works great.
Yet on this ATI computer, any call using the madVR d3d device fails with D3DERR_INVALIDCALL.
It only works when Exclusive mode is enabled AND "present several frames in advance" is disabled...
I've tried to revert back to older driver with the same result. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong...

[Ver Greeneyes]

Though for EVR, you don't get options such as smooth motion or color management.
With the (custom presenter) variant of EVR you can enable lcms-based color management, which applies the system-installed ICC profile - something madVR doesn't support as far as I can tell. Of course, madVR has yCMS and 3DLUTs instead - as well as other desirable features.