madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[DragonQ]

Dragon, does 1080p25 flagged as 1080i50 require inverse telecine? It's already progressive, any decent player will detect there is no movement in between the two fields in a frame and just weave them together, instead of bobbing each field.
Well playing it back as 1080p/25 is applying inverse telecine. It depends on your equipment though - as you say, a decent player will notice the lack of motion between adjacent even & odd fields and play it correctly. I know when using hardware deinterlacing on my nVidia GTS250 that it plays 1080p/25 in a 1080i/25 wrapper as 1080p/50 with every other frame being identical to the previous frame (which is essentially IVTC).

[Q-the-STORM]

anyone got any comparisons between Qdeo, or VXP chip upscaling and post processing vs. madVR, avisynth and ffdshow?
really wanna know what performs better..

[pie1394]

anyone got any comparisons between Qdeo, or VXP chip upscaling and post processing vs. madVR, avisynth and ffdshow?
really wanna know what performs better..

I don't have any av receiver equiped with Qdeo, VXP or Abt chipset. But the Sony 65HX920 builtin scaler does not perform as good as madVR Jinc3 + AR on 1280x720p anime contents displayed at 1920x1080p. It is still quite easy to tell the object edge's difference on such 65" panel viewed about 2.5 ~ 2.8m away.

[fallengt]

madshi has stated that he will create his own calibration solution for madVR... this year :D

Great news indead :D

[leeperry]

Talking about CMS, page 53 in the user manual (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/assetDownloadController/BVM_E250-R3manual.pdf?path=Asset Hierarchy$Professional$SEL-yf-generic-153697$SEL-yf-generic-153718SEL-asset-299060.pdf&id=StepID$SEL-asset-299060$original&dimension=original) of this mastering grade 25" OLED monitor looks pretty bad *ss: Sony BVME250 Trimaster EL™ OLED Master Monitor (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-BVME250/)

It can load LUT's from a thumb drive and provides a "Nonlinear Cubic Conversion color management system", whatever that means...but I'd love to have it in mVR too :D

[dansrfe]

Talking about CMS, page 53 in the user manual (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/assetDownloadController/BVM_E250-R3manual.pdf?path=Asset Hierarchy$Professional$SEL-yf-generic-153697$SEL-yf-generic-153718SEL-asset-299060.pdf&id=StepID$SEL-asset-299060$original&dimension=original) of this mastering grade 25" OLED monitor looks pretty bad *ss: Sony BVME250 Trimaster EL™ OLED Master Monitor (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-BVME250/)

It can load LUT's from a thumb drive and provides a "Nonlinear Cubic Conversion color management system", whatever that means...but I'd love to have it in mVR too :D

You should buy it and then take a picture of it with madVR running on it. Then we'll all feel like buying it and pretty soon Sony will be get millions of dollars from people in this thread that are buying this monitor. :D

[ttnuagmada]

It can load LUT's from a thumb drive and provides a "Nonlinear Cubic Conversion color management system", whatever that means...but I'd love to have it in mVR too :D

I think that's just a fancy way of describing a 3dlut.

The main problem that I've experienced, is that here are a limited amount of ways that you can make a 3dlut to work with MadVR, and that those methods are sketchy at best when using a plasma. Programs like Calman or LightSpace can make them for video processor's or monitors like the one you linked, but not for MadVR yet. However, I asked Calman's lead developer if adding MadVR support in the future is something they might consider, and he said it's a possibility. I imagine they'd be more inclined to do it if more people showed interest.

[G_M_C]

[...]
Sony BVME250 Trimaster EL™ OLED Master Monitor (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-BVME250/)
[...]


Aside form all its prowess, it uses 145 Watts for a 25" monitor; Thats a lot.

Weren't we all told that OLED TV's/Monitors would use little energy? OLED is put in the market as the superior technology in that field. I don't see it here though ...

[DragonQ]

It's very early days though, things like that will obviously improve over the years.

[Q-the-STORM]

well the sony oled display has been on the market for almost 2 year, I imagine things have changed a bit....
there is no info on energy use for the 55inch LG 55EM9700 yet, I guess we'll have to wait until they deliver the panels to get more info...

[tony359]

Any ideas on why I am not reading the D65 white coordinates then?

Hi,

Any help on the above?
To recap, I have a professional colour meter. Using the AVS test disk, I was checking the results and I found that the grayscale after calibration reads the following x and y: 0.313 0.322. Is that the proper white point? I thought that rec 709 was 0.3127 0.3290. I'm happy with x, but what about y?

Thanks

[6233638]

You are correct about D65.
yCMS has a tendency to get you close, but not correct, and does not offer controls to fine-tune the calibration. I would suggest trying to get your display closer to D65 with its own controls before creating the LUT, if possible.
Unfortunately yCMS development seems to have halted, so we will have to wait for Madshi's new CMS implementation before we get anything like that.

[tony359]

Ok, thanks. I just wanted to make sure I was not missing anything. It's still close enough for the time being.
Thanks for your advice, my display is calibrated under Windows and before calibrating it using my probe (X-rite, then I have a professional calibrated one that I use professionally) I did tweak the monitor's controls to reduce the amount of calibration required.

Thanks for your help, looking forward to future development of yCMS and madVR

[secvensor]

I already asked, but whether this principle in algorithms will be introduced?
http://mrhaandi.blogspot.com/

[cosmitz]

Don't mean to be a bother, but can someone take a look over my post again?

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1618394#post1618394

[Niyawa]

Hey fellow madVR users. I have a little of issue and I need help with it, please lend me your strength...!

The thing is, another fellow user of my guide isn't able to take screenshots with MPC-HC and madVR. But he is basically using the same setup as me with the same settings, the only difference is our hardware which made me think of the possibility of a driver's issue or madVR bug. He's using Windows 8 x64 and a GTX 670. If the drivers or madVR can't be the problem, do anyone have any heads up about what could cause this?

[DarkSpace]

The thing is, another fellow user of my guide isn't able to take screenshots with MPC-HC and madVR.
Sounds like Overlay Mode is being used, as by now, player-based Screenshot capability has been integrated into madVR for some time already. Under "rendering -> general settings", untick "enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" and see if that fixes it.

[Niyawa]

Sounds like Overlay Mode is being used, as by now, player-based Screenshot capability has been integrated into madVR for some time already. Under "rendering -> general settings", untick "enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer)" and see if that fixes it.
I thought of the same thing but he still didn't reply if he was using Overlay mode or not. I'll make sure he has it disabled. Thanks.

[Q-the-STORM]

if everything else fails, there is always "print screen" and paste in paint...

[DeadlyEmbrace]

I thought of the same thing but he still didn't reply if he was using Overlay mode or not. I'll make sure he has it disabled. Thanks.

I also have Win 8 x64 with a GTX670 and even with overlay mode enabled I can use the alt+i combo to make screeenshots. It only goes awry if you use printscreen with overlay due to the way that overlay mode works.

[DarkSpace]

if everything else fails, there is always "print screen" and paste in paint...
Exactly that is what doesn't always work... as explained in the post below yours.

I also have Win 8 x64 with a GTX670 and even with overlay mode enabled I can use the alt+i combo to make screeenshots. It only goes awry if you use printscreen with overlay due to the way that overlay mode works.
That's why I thought that Overlay Mode may be the culprit. However, I don't have an nVidia Card, so thanks for confirming!

[turbojet]

secvensor and cosmitz: madshi is probably the only one that can help. He usually puts a lot of effort replying when he comes around (which must take hours) but if he misses your posts try posting again while he's active.

[secvensor]

turbojet
OK!

[cyberbeing]

No idea if this is what the people above are experiencing, but screenshots taken by MPC-HC's screenshot function will come out blank if smooth motion is active and the video is unscaled. Someone filed a bug (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=19) about that a few weeks ago.

[MSL_DK]

madshi is probably the only one that can help. He usually puts a lot of effort replying when he comes around (which must take hours) but if he misses your posts try posting again while he's active.

Yes, and very admirable and a big thanks to madshi for all the time he spends on this.

[LigH]

There is a report (http://forum.gleitz.info/showthread.php?46192-madVR-0-86-1-spielt-kein-Canopus-DV-mehr) in the german doom9/Gleitz forum that Canopus DV AVIs (FourCC: 'CDVC', decoded by Canopus DV decoder, neither ffdshow nor lav are installed) are not played with current versions of madVR via MPC-HC 1.6.5, but it worked with a very old version (0.09, from VideoHelp archives). Converted to MS DV, playback works.

Where might be the reason, are there raw video formats not supported anymore by madVR?

[ryrynz]

Just recently tried enabling Intelligent Frame Creation on my Panasonic Plasma along with Smooth Motion with animated content, for the most part I got amazing results but there was the odd time I had artifacts of particular areas spread out across multiple frames. Madshi you own a Panasonic Plasma don't you? Is this something that could be improved upon? or are the two just not really suitable being used together?

[pie1394]

Just curious if madVR could support the option of D3DFMT_A2R10G10B10 display buffer at FSE display mode ?

According to Microsoft, such mode is only valid at FSE for a display device. I am curious if there will be any further color processing rather than LUT on it --- when the display device is RAMDAC, DP or HDMI 1.3 deep-color?

[secvensor]

http://forum.themaister.net/viewtopic.php?id=127

[DragonQ]

Just recently tried enabling Intelligent Frame Creation on my Panasonic Plasma along with Smooth Motion with animated content, for the most part I got amazing results but there was the odd time I had artifacts of particular areas spread out across multiple frames. Madshi you own a Panasonic Plasma don't you? Is this something that could be improved upon? or are the two just not really suitable being used together?
If you're using a TV surely you can just use the native frame rate rather than Smooth Motion? It's only really needed when the monitor's refresh rate can't be matched to the frame rate (very common for PC monitors).

[Niyawa]

Hey guys, another question, this time it might be a little more easier but I need someone to confirm this to me: would a GTX 675M be able to run Jinc? There's this fellow who has an Alienware but always get dropped frames with Jinc. That's kinda strange since far as I know that same GPU is more powerful than a GTX 260.

[Dodgexander]

Hey guys, another question, this time it might be a little more easier but I need someone to confirm this to me: would a GTX 675M be able to run Jinc? There's this fellow who has an Alienware but always get dropped frames with Jinc. That's kinda strange since far as I know that same GPU is more powerful than a GTX 260.

I can run Jinc 3 chroma and upscaling using a wolfdale @ 3ghz with a 9600gt.

Using CUDA helps a lot I think. Was amazed to see that work for me.

[pie1394]

Hey guys, another question, this time it might be a little more easier but I need someone to confirm this to me: would a GTX 675M be able to run Jinc? There's this fellow who has an Alienware but always get dropped frames with Jinc. That's kinda strange since far as I know that same GPU is more powerful than a GTX 260.

There might be something wrong in his setup...
What's his setup and player programs?

With recent GeForce driver + such powerful GPU, I think all madVR FLUSH options can be safely turned off. I have turned all of them OFF for my ION system (Win7x64, 314.07, DVI 1920x1200p60, VSync ON). No dropped / repeated / delayed frame is observed if the GPU is not overloaded.


The GTX675M is obviously at least twice as powerful as the GTX260 in raw performance. The architecture improving part is not even included yet. The GTX260+ OC has been already capable of handling more than 30 fps Jinc3+AR to 1920x1080 while there is no GPU-based HQ deinterlacing loading.

GTX675M, GF114 Fermi-core 384 SP, 620 / 1240 MHz, 256-bit GDDR5-6000 (192GB/s)

GTX260, GT200 Tesla-core 192 SP, 576 / 1242 MHz, 448-bit GDDR3-2000 (110GB/s)

GTX260+ OC, GT200b Tesla-core 216 SP, 680 / 1466 MHz, 448-bit GDDR3-2100 (115GB/s)

[wanezhiling]

Because that Alienware guy's madVR runs on Intel GPU.:p
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1570847&postcount=10533

[leeperry]

Oh well, I don't mean to get OT but one thing that shouldn't overlooked IMHO is the performance/watt ratio(and even more so within an HTPC environment): http://www.hardware.fr/articles/879-6/consommation-performances-watt.html

This site doesn't allow pictures hotlinking so I can't provide a translated url, but the 650Ti delivers 67 fps/100W in Battlefield3 and the 660 only 54fps :o

I really can't wrap my head around tossing 180€ on a 660, especially when the 660SE is around the corner and that I don't care about games...so I'm pulling the trigger on a 90€ lightly used 1GB 650Ti http://forum.slysoft.com/images/smilies/cool2.gif

Buying used 5xx doesn't much sense as these are far less power efficient(34 fps/100W in B3 for the 560Ti :rolleyes:), second hand warranties aren't nearly as long anymore and their prices just aren't competitive(560Ti's regularly go for +100€ used).

Surely the 650Ti runs on a 128bit power controller but I'm quite sure it'll still be plenty fast in mVR anyway http://forum.slysoft.com/images/smilies/agreed.gif

[turbojet]

I'm having a bit of a problem with the display mode changer. Currently have 60, 72 and 75 resolutions set up, they all look fine. In madvr this is in the mode changer: 1680x1050p60, 1680x1050p72, 1680x1050p75 It works fine for 24->72 and 30->60 but with 25 fps sources it insists on setting 60hz even if the monitor is set to 75hz. Then I installed reclock, set it to slowdown 25 to 24 and in madvr treat 25 fps as 24. I get 24 fps according to madvr status but it always changes to 60hz. When 75hz is set, madvr/reclock displays 74.984. Any idea what could be going on?

Also with 24 fps source, 72hz refresh rate (71.99139 in madvr status) with smoothmotion set to only when judder, it's enabled even though with it disabled there is no judder.

[artios]

There might be something wrong in his setup...
What's his setup and player programs?

With recent GeForce driver + such powerful GPU, I think all madVR FLUSH options can be safely turned off. I have turned all of them OFF for my ION system (Win7x64, 314.07, DVI 1920x1200p60, VSync ON). No dropped / repeated / delayed frame is observed if the GPU is not overloaded.


The GTX675M is obviously at least twice as powerful as the GTX260 in raw performance. The architecture improving part is not even included yet. The GTX260+ OC has been already capable of handling more than 30 fps Jinc3+AR to 1920x1080 while there is no GPU-based HQ deinterlacing loading.

GTX675M, GF114 Fermi-core 384 SP, 620 / 1240 MHz, 256-bit GDDR5-6000 (192GB/s)

GTX260, GT200 Tesla-core 192 SP, 576 / 1242 MHz, 448-bit GDDR3-2000 (110GB/s)

GTX260+ OC, GT200b Tesla-core 216 SP, 680 / 1466 MHz, 448-bit GDDR3-2100 (115GB/s)

Hello, I am the member that Niyawa talked about.

I understand that my card is powerful. When I use the Intel GPU to play the following file
32.2 GB
Total Bitrate: 31.06 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 23275 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

I am getting maybe 3-4 drops per minute. The Nvidia decided to lock the mpc-hc.exe to Intel GPU. The renaming trick worked to use nvidia GPU but unfortunately I am getting more drops this way. I think its short of incompatibility or settings issue.

Can I try madVR through another program to see if its not mpc-hc related?

also madVR settings show me that "Sharpness" needs to be dealt with (is in green color)

[Mangix]

Using CUDA helps a lot I think. Was amazed to see that work for me.

madVR does not use CUDA in any way.

[Niyawa]

I can run Jinc 3 chroma and upscaling using a wolfdale @ 3ghz with a 9600gt.
I know! I've seen people use a Intel HD 4000 for that too.

There might be something wrong in his setup... What's his setup and player programs?
Basically my guide itself. MPC-HC + madVR + LAV Filters blah blah, you know the drill.

Because that Alienware guy's madVR runs on Intel GPU.:p
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1570847&postcount=10533
As you can see from his own comment, he tried that, didn't work at all. I still believe it's a setting matter but apparently he tried everything and nothing.

[Dodgexander]

madVR does not use CUDA in any way.

You're missing the point. Deinterlacing etc is done by LAV Cuda decoder. Frees up more room to leave the video card too process Jinc3.

Same would apply to software decoding.

I have an a better AMD system, but it can't handle dxva or dxva copy back with the same MadVr settings, even though its more powerful. I have to stick that on software decoding in LAV.

Try using different decoders and different modes.

[DragonQ]

You're missing the point. Deinterlacing etc is done by LAV Cuda decoder. Frees up more room to leave the video card too process Jinc3.
Doesn't make any difference. Using CUDA on my laptop so the HD4000 only has to do scaling doesn't let me use any higher settings in MadVR, compared to using the HD4000 for everything.

[pie1394]

Hello, I am the member that Niyawa talked about.

I understand that my card is powerful. When I use the Intel GPU to play the following file
32.2 GB
Total Bitrate: 31.06 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 23275 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

I am getting maybe 3-4 drops per minute. The Nvidia decided to lock the mpc-hc.exe to Intel GPU. The renaming trick worked to use nvidia GPU but unfortunately I am getting more drops this way. I think its short of incompatibility or settings issue.

Can I try madVR through another program to see if its not mpc-hc related?

also madVR settings show me that "Sharpness" needs to be dealt with (is in green color)

Did you use 23.976 / 24 Hz signal output or still 60 Hz like your NB LCD panel? How about EVR renderer?

The hybrid display design on most notebooks might cause some issues. It really depends how the board circuit is designed. For example the output ports like LVDS / HDMI might be hard-wired to Intel's GPU even the selected one is nVidia / AMD(ATi) ... As a result, it creates extra latency and needs PCI-e bandwidth to transmit the displayed contents between 2 GPUs.

For the comparison, how about NOT using DXVA2 HW H.264 decoding on this content? I guess the CPU of your NB should be powerful enough for such BD stream's decoding.

[baii]

You can always flash a unlocked bios and disable optimus as last resort.

[artios]

Hello, I am the member that Niyawa talked about.

I understand that my card is powerful. When I use the Intel GPU to play the following file
32.2 GB
Total Bitrate: 31.06 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 23275 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

I am getting maybe 3-4 drops per minute. The Nvidia decided to lock the mpc-hc.exe to Intel GPU. The renaming trick worked to use nvidia GPU but unfortunately I am getting more drops this way. I think its short of incompatibility or settings issue.

Can I try madVR through another program to see if its not mpc-hc related?

also madVR settings show me that "Sharpness" needs to be dealt with (is in green color)

Hi, I figured out what was wrong.

In order Nvidia high speed processor to be used at Jinc, the laptop must be charging. Not possible to nvidia to handle Jinc whilst laptop is on battery, even at simple tv rips of 720p I experience constant frame drops.

Sorry I didn't figure it out sooner. Kind of odd though as it can handle with ease Bicubic and Lanczos on battery.

Can anyone confirm that? Is there a workaround?

[DragonQ]

In order Nvidia high speed processor to be used at Jinc, the laptop must be charging. Not possible to nvidia to handle Jinc whilst laptop is on battery, even at simple tv rips of 720p I experience constant frame drops.

Sorry I didn't figure it out sooner. Kind of odd though as it can handle with ease Bicubic and Lanczos on battery.

Can anyone confirm that? Is there a workaround?
Change your Windows power settings for running on battery. In the advanced settings there's a part where you can set "When playing video" in "Multimedia settings" to "Optimise video quality" - this will let you use the same settings on battery as when charging.

[artios]

Change your Windows power settings for running on battery. In the advanced settings there's a part where you can set "When playing video" in "Multimedia settings" to "Optimise video quality" - this will let you use the same settings on battery as when charging.

when playing video was already in optimize video quality mode.

I changed:

Graphic Processor > on battery > changed from balanced mode to Max performance

and I thought that did the trick but it didn't. I am getting unusual frame drops only on battery and only using Jinc.

It has to be plugged in. Is there anyone with Alienware notebook to verify this?

[Asmodian]

Look for other power settings, maybe you need to allow active cooling while on battery? There are a lots of power saving features that might push Jinc over the edge.

Jinc takes a lot more GPU power and memory bandwidth than the other resizers, it isn't at all unusual that you are only having issues with it. Your laptop must be throttling something to save power when on battery.

[jkauff]

The GPU itself may have some power-saving features built in, and you probably can't modify them.

[Dodgexander]

Doesn't make any difference. Using CUDA on my laptop so the HD4000 only has to do scaling doesn't let me use any higher settings in MadVR, compared to using the HD4000 for everything.

How does this apply to what I was saying? You're talking about two different devices.

I am talking about using software decoding on one pc and Cuda on another allowing for more room for gpu with madVr.

If I use dxva, the settings I usually use create dropped frames until I turn them down.

I'm guessing either you're integrated graphics is already hitting a wall, or the behavior of a mixed system or Intel dxva is different.

Sent from my Blade S using Tapatalk 2

[Mangix]

You're missing the point. Deinterlacing etc is done by LAV Cuda decoder. Frees up more room to leave the video card too process Jinc3.

Same would apply to software decoding.

I have an a better AMD system, but it can't handle dxva or dxva copy back with the same MadVr settings, even though its more powerful. I have to stick that on software decoding in LAV.

Try using different decoders and different modes.

LAV is not madVR. madVR supports DXVA deinterlacing.

And yes, DXVA sucks on AMD platforms.

I use LAV's CUDA decoder to free up CPU for SmoothVideo.