madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[tickled_pink]

There's a nice step up in quality from 16 to 32 neurons with some images. Every higher neuron setting increases quality a little bit, but not *that* much. 32 neurons should be fine. Unlike with Lanczos, where more taps often hurts more than it helps, with NNEDI3 more neurons usually have no disadvantages, other than performance. So more neurons shouldn't hurt, if your GPU can handle it. But IMHO 32 neurons are alright.


I'm not sure if the new series of ATI GPUs have new technical abilities or not. If you're happy with the current algorithms I don't see a reason why you should have to buy another GPU next year. Of course if I add more algorithms in the future, you may want to use those, too. But then the 7750 should already have some more power than you need right now. But I don't know what future algorithms I might add and how much performance they will eat. So I can't promise that the 7750 will be fast enough a year from now. Maybe it will be. Maybe even a 7970 will not be fast enough. I don't know. Can only say what is fast enough for today's features.

I have a 7750 oc'd @ 975MHz GPU and 1450MHz Memory without an increase in voltage. I can comfortably run the following on a 1080p monitor:

480p@30fps = 64 neurons
576p@30fps = 32 neurons
Above this I use Jinc

480p@60fps = 16 neurons
Above this I use Lanczos.

I guess it's up to you. Do you need more than this? Is it worth the extra cost of hardware and electricity use?

[Fullmetal Encoder]

Has anyone tried the new 14.9 AMD drivers yet? I have tried searching without much success to determine which driver version everyone settled on as being best for Hawaii based cards (I am using R9 290) so that I can test it against that.

[QBhd]

R9 270X here and 13.12 is still the best for madVR

QB

[Neeto]

Anyone got a well developer profile for R9 270X using 13.12?
Want to squeeze every last drop out of my new card.
Output to 1920x1080 Panasonic Plasma

Neeto

[QBhd]

Anyone got a well developer profile for R9 270X using 13.12?
Want to squeeze every last drop out of my new card.
Output to 1920x1080 Panasonic Plasma

Neeto

if (srcHeight < 361) and (deintFps < 31) "Flash"
elseif (srcHeight < 405) and (deintFps < 31) "<SD 30fps"
elseif (srcHeight < 481) and (deintFps < 31) "SD 30fps"
elseif (srcHeight < 714) and (deintFps > 59) "720p60 (cropped)"
elseif (srcHeight < 714) and (srcWidth > 1279) "720p24 (cropped)"
elseif (srcHeight < 541) and (deintFps < 26) "1/2 HD"
elseif (srcHeight < 541) and (deintFps < 31) "1/2 HD 30fps"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 26) "720p24"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 31) "720p30"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 51) "720p50"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps > 51) "720p60"
elseif (srcHeight < 1040) and (srcWidth > 1919) "1080p24 (cropped)"
elseif (deintFps < 26) "1080p24"
else "1080i30"

This will help you get started in getting every drop of power out of your GPU... I only use "chroma upscaling" and "image doubling" in each of these profiles. I add profiles as I watch different content. And I weight importance this way luma doubling>chroma upscaling>chroma doubling.

QB

[MysteryX]

Besides the neurons (NNEDI3) being a possible issue as someone previously touched on you could try having don't render frames when fade in/out is detected in the madVR trade quality for performance checked. When it comes to black and white video the system may mistake shades of black/white/grey, and when it changes from one to the other as a fade effect. (Beside that the video you linked does have fading occurring in it).

This option is already enabled by default.

This doesn't tell us everything.
By default (if enabled) image quadrupling is working for scaling factors 3x or higher, so here's your problem - 360p to 1080p is exactly 3x scaling, so quadrupling gets activated.
With those setting the 360p gets doubled to 720p then it gets doubled again (quadrupled) to 1440p then it gets downscaled to 1080p. It is a lot of work, but that's how you have it set up.
I propose you disable quadrupling and see if there is a noticeable difference in image quality, it might not be worth the performance hit.

After disabling NNEDI3 Quadrupling, I'm still experiencing the exact same lag. No performance difference. (I would have expected that removing anything would make it work fluidly as it seemed to be borderline for my card, but it still lags all the same)

[Anime Viewer]

After disabling NNEDI3 Quadrupling, I'm still experiencing the exact same lag. No performance difference. (I would have expected that removing anything would make it work fluidly as it seemed to be borderline for my card, but it still lags all the same)

What other settings are set that you didn't mention in your previous post?

What dithering option do you have selected - a dithering method or an error diffusion method? Error Diffusion is much more taxing than dithering, so if you have one of the error diffusion methods selected try dithering instead.

How about Smooth Motion? Do you have it on or off? If its on try with it off to see if it improves performance.

What do you have your CPU and GPU queue sizes set to?
If using present several frames in advance - what do you have that set to?

What model GPU is in your system?

[Asmodian]

What dithering option do you have selected - a dithering method or an error diffusion method? Error Diffusion is much more taxing than dithering, so if you have one of the error diffusion methods selected try dithering instead.

Error Diffusion is a method of dithering. You have the right idea for performance though, error diffusion dithering is much slower than ordered or random dithering (and higher quality).

Error diffusion dithering also uses Direct Compute so if there is an issue with Direct Compute performance both NNEDI3 and Error Diffusion dithering would be affected.

[Neeto]

if (srcHeight < 361) and (deintFps < 31) "Flash"
elseif (srcHeight < 405) and (deintFps < 31) "<SD 30fps"
elseif (srcHeight < 481) and (deintFps < 31) "SD 30fps"
elseif (srcHeight < 714) and (deintFps > 59) "720p60 (cropped)"
elseif (srcHeight < 714) and (srcWidth > 1279) "720p24 (cropped)"
elseif (srcHeight < 541) and (deintFps < 26) "1/2 HD"
elseif (srcHeight < 541) and (deintFps < 31) "1/2 HD 30fps"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 26) "720p24"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 31) "720p30"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps < 51) "720p50"
elseif (srcHeight < 721) and (deintFps > 51) "720p60"
elseif (srcHeight < 1040) and (srcWidth > 1919) "1080p24 (cropped)"
elseif (deintFps < 26) "1080p24"
else "1080i30"

This will help you get started in getting every drop of power out of your GPU... I only use "chroma upscaling" and "image doubling" in each of these profiles. I add profiles as I watch different content. And I weight importance this way luma doubling>chroma upscaling>chroma doubling.

QB
Thanks!
I know what you mean about adding a profile for each type of content - that's what I need a leg up wtih - it's painfully slow to check each type & that's if you can find stressing examples of each type of content.
So just checking - you're using the same settings for each profile at the moment?
If the profiles are different, do you have a dump of the settings for each of the above profiles?

[ryrynz]

Probably wouldn't hurt to have a default profile similar to this already loaded within MadVR which is unlocked when profiles are enabled. Maybe a final 1.0 thing.

[Megalith]

I'm getting tearing even in exclusive mode after disabling v-sync in my video card's graphics options. Is this normal? I'm surprised that this has an effect out of games.

[Asmodian]

MadVR is different like that. Fraps will also put the frame rate in the corner of the video with madVR.

[pie1394]

Has anyone tried the new 14.9 AMD drivers yet? I have tried searching without much success to determine which driver version everyone settled on as being best for Hawaii based cards (I am using R9 290) so that I can test it against that.

I have started to use this version with HD7970 yesterday. So far so good with madVR since HD7970 is very powerful and I did not use the most stressful settings with madVR. To be honest the GPU clock can be even lower to 550 MHz from original 925MHz setting on High-performance mode. It is still enough to deal with 1440x1080i60 content handling to 1920x1080p60 + vector-adaptive deinterlacing + frame-rate-doubing 29.97 -> 59.94 fps, Chroma upscaling NNEDI3_16, Horizontal upscaling Lanczos4AR + debanding_with_angle_detection.

It does not show much difference from a custom-made 14.30 beta driver originally for R9 285 card. Some random glitches of previous 14.x versions on desktop icon's drag&drop action + 3D gaming scenes seem fixed now. To me these both new version's GPU thermal and power control efficiency are better than 13.20. Some people have complained such issues on any previous 14.x versions -- even worse than 13.20.

The 12bpp deep color mode is available since 14.x version. For this card with driver 13.12 it automatically selects 1080p 10 bpp mode to send signals to my 65" Sony TV. But I wonder it makes any noticeable difference with madVR since the dithering is done by GPU --- not madVR itself to 10 / 12 bpp color information.

[MysteryX]

What other settings are set that you didn't mention in your previous post?

What dithering option do you have selected - a dithering method or an error diffusion method? Error Diffusion is much more taxing than dithering, so if you have one of the error diffusion methods selected try dithering instead.

How about Smooth Motion? Do you have it on or off? If its on try with it off to see if it improves performance.

What do you have your CPU and GPU queue sizes set to?
If using present several frames in advance - what do you have that set to?

What model GPU is in your system?

In madVR, the only thing I configure is the scaling algorithms. For a while I tried noise reduction but disabled it because it was randomly causing "some" videos to lag. Everything is at their default valuese except the scaling settings I gave.

Dithering is set to Ordered Dithering.

I do not use madVR's smooth motion, but I use SVP instead.

My GPU is a Radeon HD 7660M

[huhn]

In madVR, the only thing I configure is the scaling algorithms. For a while I tried noise reduction but disabled it because it was randomly causing "some" videos to lag. Everything is at their default valuese except the scaling settings I gave.

Dithering is set to Ordered Dithering.

I do not use madVR's smooth motion, but I use SVP instead.

My GPU is a Radeon HD 7660M


there is no noise reduction in madVR.

and when you use SVP you need rendertimes below 16 ms and 320p is a lot more work than 480p because it needs a lot more scaling.

[Megalith]

I'm getting tearing even in exclusive mode after disabling v-sync in my video card's graphics options. Is this normal? I'm surprised that this has an effect out of games.

Strangely, tearing is heavily reduced outside of exclusive mode...

[huhn]

there is a reason for v sync to avoid tearing. and madVR is a directx 9 "game". so totally normal that this can happen with disabled aero in windowed mode or disabled v sync in the GPU driver.

[Zachs]

Strangely, tearing is heavily reduced outside of exclusive mode...

That's because in windowed mode your driver would've re-enabled vsync for DWM.

[DragonQ]

Why mess with V-Sync and the like? You shouldn't get tearing in MadVR if you just leave everything as it is (i.e. desktop compositing on).

[amggotleir]

Im bit of a noob, but any chance some1 could tell me what are the optimal settings for minimal grain effect when using the newest madvr combined with newest lav and mpc-hc?

[Asmodian]

Minimal grain effect? Defaults I guess? There isn't a setting in madVR that has anything to do with grain specifically.

[leeperry]

what are the optimal settings for minimal grain effect when using the newest madvr
you could try unchecking "change dither for every frame" under /rendering/dithering/, the rendering noise will stop dancing around on top of the picture if that's what you meant.

[Asmodian]

Good point leeperry.

The noise from ordered dithering is very subtle/hard to see but I do like "change dither for every frame" disabled. Changing the dither pattern every frame and using random dithering cause increased noise that might look like grain on a display with visible pixels.

[MysteryX]

there is no noise reduction in madVR.

and when you use SVP you need rendertimes below 16 ms and 320p is a lot more work than 480p because it needs a lot more scaling.

I meant artifact removal, which is disabled.

I have lots of 352x288 25fps 1150kbps videos rendered on 1080p very smoothly, and lots of other FLV videos from YouTube at 240p, 360 and 480p which all render @ 60fps 1080p smoothly.

I'm not seeing any reason why that particular video would be more consuming than all these other videos, even when disabling NNEDI3 Quadrupling. In fact, the image is simpler, in shades of gray. That's the only difference I can see.

[huhn]

I meant artifact removal, which is disabled.

I have lots of 352x288 25fps 1150kbps videos rendered on 1080p very smoothly, and lots of other FLV videos from YouTube at 240p, 360 and 480p which all render @ 60fps 1080p smoothly.

I'm not seeing any reason why that particular video would be more consuming than all these other videos, even when disabling NNEDI3 Quadrupling. In fact, the image is simpler, in shades of gray. That's the only difference I can see.

madVR doesn't really care what's on the screen. the colorspace is still nv12 if it is from youtube so this doesn't matter at all too.

are your rendertime below 16 ms or not?

[tuco76]

At least on Windows 8 and above, the desktop compositor works quite flawless with video playback, and I've never had a single issue with it.
If you worry, you can just run FSE mode, and it has no influence on the video in any case.

I'm running the latest update to Win 8.1, and I get great results in both FSE and windowed mode. No need to disable desktop composition.

Same goes for Win 7 (updated) from what I experienced by now, ty!

R9 270X here and 13.12 is still the best for madVR
QB

Do you have tested 14.9 version yet? If so, your take still 13.12 best for madVR?

I just installed 14.9, on first view seems slightly faster having "use OpenCL.." unchecked. Previous version no difference in render. time, at my end, afair (GPU is HD 5470)

[Asmodian]

I imagine not much is changing in the new AMD drivers for the HD 5000 series. The driver paths will be very different between QBhd's R9 270X and an HD 5470. That said; there could be general Direct Compute optimizations or other changes that get applied to older series as well.

It is always interesting to get more input but you will need to test madVR yourself (or someone else with a similar card of course). :)

[amggotleir]

you could try unchecking "change dither for every frame" under /rendering/dithering/, the rendering noise will stop dancing around on top of the picture if that's what you meant.

allright so nothing major, but thanks anyway

[hashanga]

madVR v0.87.10
* OpenCL should now automatically prefer NVidia GPUs on Optimus laptops

I know this has been mentioned before in this thread. But to be clear, even if the changelog states so, madVR still uses Intel GMA4600 instead of NVidia GTX 850M (Maxwell).

PS: SVP uses my NVidia GPU, although very lightly.

[Anime Viewer]

I know this has been mentioned before in this thread. But to be clear, even if the changelog states so, madVR still uses Intel GMA4600 instead of NVidia GTX 850M (Maxwell).


Are you renaming the mpc-hc file (if you're using that instead of mpc-be), and are you setting that program to use your Nvidia GPU in Nvidia Control Panel?

[secvensor]

MSI GTX 970
What maximum options of NNEDI3 This card pulls?

[MysteryX]

madVR doesn't really care what's on the screen. the colorspace is still nv12 if it is from youtube so this doesn't matter at all too.

are your rendertime below 16 ms or not?

So that means the lower performance probably comes from SVP?

How do I know my render time?

[huhn]

So that means the lower performance probably comes from SVP?

How do I know my render time?
maybe I can only guess without numbers

press control + j and you can read your current rendertimes. if you can't see rendertimes you have played around with flush settings.

[hashanga]

Are you renaming the mpc-hc file (if you're using that instead of mpc-be), and are you setting that program to use your Nvidia GPU in Nvidia Control Panel?

I tried both renaming MPC-HC and using mpc-be, but whenever I select to run the application using the NVidia GPU, as soon as i play a video, the player goes to pause mode and crashes. It doesn't show any video. Rarely it would go playing only the audio stream without crashing.

It is possible to select NVidia GPU when the renderer is either System Default or Video Mixing Renderer 7 (renderless).
This happens only when madVR ,Video Mixing Renderer 9 (renderless) or Enhanced Video Renderer is selected.

Tested with both mpc-hc and mpc-be.

[MysteryX]

maybe I can only guess without numbers

press control + j and you can read your current rendertimes. if you can't see rendertimes you have played around with flush settings.

That video has a rendering time of 22.35.

Another vfideo that is 480x360 has rendering time of 16.50

Perhaps the difference is that this particular video that lags is 360p widescreen. I tried another 640x360 video and it also has rendering time of 22.35 but it still plays smoothly.

[huhn]

That video has a rendering time of 22.35.

Another vfideo that is 480x360 has rendering time of 16.50

Perhaps the difference is that this particular video that lags is 360p widescreen. I tried another 640x360 video and it also has rendering time of 22.35 but it still plays smoothly.

if SVP creates 60 fps from your source video and you have rendertiems close to 16 ms or higher madVR will drop frames and that's not smooth.

if one of your fiel is not played with 60 fps it can be easily smooth with 22 ms

[Anime Viewer]

I tried both renaming MPC-HC and using mpc-be, but whenever I select to run the application using the NVidia GPU, as soon as i play a video, the player goes to pause mode and crashes. It doesn't show any video. Rarely it would go playing only the audio stream without crashing.

It is possible to select NVidia GPU when the renderer is either System Default or Video Mixing Renderer 7 (renderless).
This happens only when madVR ,Video Mixing Renderer 9 (renderless) or Enhanced Video Renderer is selected.

Tested with both mpc-hc and mpc-be.

I know this has been mentioned before in this thread. But to be clear, even if the changelog states so, madVR still uses Intel GMA4600 instead of NVidia GTX 850M (Maxwell).

Your system is using the Nvidia GPU, based on the error you described. The black screen situation you're encountering is the same problem that 900m and 800m series users had already reported when they've had their systems use the Nvidia GPU to process videos instead of the Intel GPU, so what you though worked in http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170937 didn't actually fix the Nvidia problem for you.

That video has a rendering time of 22.35.

Another vfideo that is 480x360 has rendering time of 16.50

Perhaps the difference is that this particular video that lags is 360p widescreen. I tried another 640x360 video and it also has rendering time of 22.35 but it still plays smoothly.
Do you have Reclock running on your system? I've seen some lower resolution videos experience the lag (and dropped frames) if recolock is enabled and being used. If you're using reclock turn it off by changing from reclock to system default in MPC, close MPC, restart the video, and see if the problem stops occurring.

[hashanga]

Your system is using the Nvidia GPU, based on the error you described. The black screen situation you're encountering is the same problem that 900m and 800m series users had already reported when they've had their systems use the Nvidia GPU to process videos instead of the Intel GPU, so what you though worked in http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170937 didn't actually fix the Nvidia problem for you.


No, sadly it hadn't. It had been SVP, not madVR that had been using the NVidia GPU. I edited my post in that thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170937) to reflect it.

Is there a way to use madVR as a filter(like SVP) instead of the renderer? I know it could be a pretty stupid question. But I',m curious because there's an external filter named MadVR.
If it's possible somehow, madVR would be able to use the NVidia GPU as SVP does.

[MysteryX]

Do you have Reclock running on your system? I've seen some lower resolution videos experience the lag (and dropped frames) if recolock is enabled and being used. If you're using reclock turn it off by changing from reclock to system default in MPC, close MPC, restart the video, and see if the problem stops occurring.
No I'm not using Reclock. I tried it but didn't see the benefits. In fact, I had the impression it was running smoother without it so I don't use it.

Here's something strange.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knzQv4ln1M
This video, with the same settings, has over 20 dropped frames per second with a rendering time of 7.5ms

Also, I'm seeing that 1080p videos on 1080p output have dropped frames when rendering time is 12ms, why is that? The settings I found to work best have a rendering time of 6-8ms

[huhn]

No I'm not using Reclock. I tried it but didn't see the benefits. In fact, I had the impression it was running smoother without it so I don't use it.

Here's something strange.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knzQv4ln1M
This video, with the same settings, has over 20 dropped frames per second with a rendering time of 7.5ms

Also, I'm seeing that 1080p videos on 1080p output have dropped frames when rendering time is 12ms, why is that? The settings I found to work best have a rendering time of 6-8ms

make a screen shoot of the queues.

what are your PC stats and what is running in the background?

madVr doesn't like it when something else is using the GPU.

getting dropped frame with normal rendertimes are usually a problem with the composition rate or your PC can't decode the frames fast enough. things liek this happens a lot with SVP.

are you on windows 7? it is very easy to broke the composition rate on this OS.

[MysteryX]

make a screen shoot of the queues.

what are your PC stats and what is running in the background?

madVr doesn't like it when something else is using the GPU.

getting dropped frame with normal rendertimes are usually a problem with the composition rate or your PC can't decode the frames fast enough. things liek this happens a lot with SVP.

are you on windows 7? it is very easy to broke the composition rate on this OS.
This video, in particular, is sometimes getting me 40 dropped frames per second with a rendering time under 9ms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csmwgui5BMk
It plays fluidly for a period, then lags for a period of time, then play fluidly again, etc. Here's a screenshot of the stats

I have a Quad-Core i7 laptop with 8GB RAM and Radeon HD 7660M with nothing else running. Well... Visual Studio is on and Kaspersky too, but they shouldn't be doing anything. Got air conditioning in the room too :P

I got better performance since downgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 7 (Windows 8.1 gave poor performance). So yes I'm now using Windows 7, with LeeKM's modded dual-graphics drivers.

[Asmodian]

with LeeKM's modded dual-graphics drivers.

Have you tested without the modded drivers?

[MysteryX]

Have you tested without the modded drivers?

I just installed AMD's latest drivers v14.9 (luckily their stand-alone drivers work on my dual-graphics laptop). I'll let you know results after doing further testing on my TV tonight.

Another type of video that doesn't play well are 15mbps .TP and .TS files. I attached a screenshot on my 768p laptop display. What's interesting in this case is that additional stats appear:
- deinterlace (5ms)
- split (16.5ms)
- rendering (13ms)
- present (5.4m)

What does that mean? Especially the 16.5ms split

[huhn]

decoder queues are not full your decoder/filter can't handle the file.


split is a copyback split is normally not used on amd so it looks like it is using your igpu.
the second screen show a deinterlaced video. I don't know if SVP can handle intrerlaced videos.

[Neeto]

I just installed AMD's latest drivers v14.9 (luckily their stand-alone drivers work on my dual-graphics laptop). I'll let you know results after doing further testing on my TV tonight.

Another type of video that doesn't play well are 15mbps .TP and .TS files. I attached a screenshot on my 768p laptop display. What's interesting in this case is that additional stats appear:
- deinterlace (5ms)
- split (16.5ms)
- rendering (13ms)
- present (5.4m)

What does that mean? Especially the 16.5ms split

I've had similar issues with decoder queues not filling where I've left hardware decoding on in LAV.

[MysteryX]

Have you tested without the modded drivers?
I now have the latest AMD official drivers.

The Morning Musume video is now playing fluidly even when rising the settings to 13ms rendering time. Yay!

The Kara video is still having ~15 dropped frames per second with a rendering time of 7ms.

In general, though, 1080p videos seem to play more fluidly on 1080p display with rendering times between 12-16ms. This driver, however, also gives slightly lower performance in many cases.

Wait a minute... the .TP video used to play fine by disabling SVP. With this newer driver, it lags even without SVP!

This video has ~20 dropped frames per second with a rendering time of -8ms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_aB9xYNdoE

[khanmein]

newer version when will it be release? thanks..

[leeperry]

newer version when will it be released?
when it's done.

[MysteryX]

btw, madVR doesn't work on MPC-HC x64?

[Ceremony]

madvr is 32bit only (atm) and thus will only work with 32bit software. maybe in the future. maybe.