madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

I see. The issue is this file is VFR, so it switches from 23.976 to 59.94 midway.

I doubt it'd be this simple of a matter, but out of curiosity, would it be possible to add a side option for, or a conditional check in the "only if there would be judder without it" setting?
So basically you have it set to "only if there would be judder..." but due to the file being VFR smooth motion FRC stays on for the 59.94 parts of the file? If so, you could create an issue in the madVR bug tracker, but you'd need to attach a sample to it which allows me to reproduce the issue on my PC. Zip the sample or else the bug tracker won't accept the upload.

I just used calman pattern generator installed on my htpc along with calman v4 on my laptop. Only tv's setting were altered, I didn't create luts and in madVR I have "this display is already calibrated" option enabled and now that gamma ramp option is what makes me wonder.
Well, I don't know if you have any VideoLUTs set in your GPU. Probably not, but I don't know. If you don't remember ever having set those, they're probably still empty/linear. In that case it doesn't matter whether you enable that madVR option or not.

If you want to be 100% safe, you could turn that switch on/off, measure madVR's output both ways, just to make sure there really is no difference.

This is the response I got when asking about Calman support for madvr...

We will it's just a matter of priorities at the moment. We are working on getting CalMAN 5.2 ready for IBC and CEDIA. The new features and hardware updates are already slated for CalMAN 5.2
Ok, thanks!

[leeperry]

That TV I just mentioned also offers BFI, but it really dims the picture.....to the point that whatever I do, gamma gets utterly dark >90 IRE, that's just painful and unacceptable.

So indeed BFI in mVR could be useful but it would require a display with a lot of extra brightness available, and of course clouding/light bleeding would become more visible. This might very well not be worth the hassle as the best way is to turn off the backlight really: Display motion blur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur)
Oops! As it turns out, that TV was a bit out-of-specs as I just bought another one for a relative and it's still plenty bright after BFI has been enabled.....so I'm sending mine back for a refund and once I get ahold of the new graphic card I just ordered, I'll be happy to provide feedback on the FRC+BFI combo @60Hz :cool:

Still, BFI is prolly indeed better done in the display as if it wasn't designed for it, it might very well not be bright enough(as this literally cuts down the effective brightness by more or less two).....my first TV could barely reach 90 cd/m² with BFI enabled :angry:

Can't wait to go for full blown J3AR scaling with FRC+BFI@60Hz, you sir really are our savior :devil:

PS: now all I'd need a picture viewer that does J3, OTOH I think there are DShow decoders for JPG but mVR wouldn't appear to support portrait so reading comics might be compromised :o

[dansrfe]

How do you determine what brightness to set the monitor at prior to profile/3DLUT generation? And is there a way to take ambient lighting conditions into account for different times of the day? Would I have to do calibrate the monitor at different brightness levels in different ambient lighting conditions and manually load the appropriate 3DLUT file in madVR at the time? How does everyone deal with this issue?

I'm not sure if adjusting the brightness by 5-10 cd/m2 on the monitor itself (I only have brightness controls on my monitor) will significantly skew the LUT's accuracy. Or should I just stick to setting the monitor at 120 cd/m2 and let the eyes adjust to the difference in ambient lighting conditions?

[nx6]

Because software decoding is faster (if you have a decent CPU) and more reliable. No stupid limits like max number of reference frames, no hardware decoding bugs, no bluescreens or crashes etc...

Plus, as I think you've said before, software decoding balances the playback load over you machine's resources better. The GPU can focus on the important task of rendering better if it's not having to do decoding duty on top of it.

[Mangix]

Plus, as I think you've said before, software decoding balances the playback load over you machine's resources better. The GPU can focus on the important task of rendering better if it's not having to do decoding duty on top of it.

Video decoding is implemented using a dedicated ARM CPU on most GPUs. It doesn't really drain GPU resources.

[nevcairiel]

Video decoding is implemented using a dedicated ARM CPU on most GPUs. It doesn't really drain GPU resources.


It does drain memory bandwidth, which can matter on low end GPUs.

PS:
It'usually an ASIC ( fixed function hardware) which does the decoding, not an ARM CPU.

[dansrfe]

Can anyone recommend a forum or thread for discussing madVR + ArgyllCMS calibration for people who are just starting out? I feel that basic/troubleshooting questions will be ignored in the madVR + ArgyllCMS thread on AVS. Thanks.

[huhn]

i found a resize bug in in madvr

lanczos8ar video codec is ZMBV output is rgb24
http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/lanczos8ar325f536apng.png

unscaled it looks like this http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/schweif0024877b96bavisnapshot004877b96b0020134877b96b084877b96b10214877b96b304877b96b394877b96bpng.png

bilinear and dxva look very similar and flicker with my gtx 760

jinc 3-8 without ar/with ar looks bad too
jinc 3 ar:
http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/jinc3ar6af6b90dpng.png

a lot of details are destroyed

i hope there isn't something wrong with my 760

sample:

[THX-UltraII]

How do I remove that information/status that madVR shows when I start playing a movie? (with this I mean the EXCLUSIVE information bar at the left upper of the screen that is showed for a second or so).

[ryrynz]

You can't. Not yet.

[THX-UltraII]

You can't. Not yet.ok, request it is! :)

[ƒreeman]

How do I remove that information/status that madVR shows when I start playing a movie? (with this I mean the EXCLUSIVE information bar at the left upper of the screen that is showed for a second or so).

why do you wanna remove it..??
it's a good sign that madVR is working..

[SamKook]

why do you wanna remove it..??
it's a good sign that madVR is working..

My eyes are also a good sign that it's working.

I personally don't like anything displayed over my videos. If I have doubts that exclusive mode isn't enabled, I can pause the video and check the OSD.
BTW, it has been requested long ago, but it's a minor aesthetic detail so it's far from a priority.

[leeperry]

How do I remove that information/status that madVR shows when I start playing a movie? (with this I mean the EXCLUSIVE information bar at the left upper of the screen that is showed for a second or so).
From what I saw, you could replace those two words with spaces using an hex/resource editor...so you'd end up with a gray rectangle in the top left that has nothing written on it :sly:

But maybe madshi checks for CRC/MD5 so I dunno....I found it quite annoying in 720p but in 1080p I just don't pay attention to it anymore. I guess someday it'll be possible to turn it off :)

[xabregas]

HI, is there any problem or changes in default configuration of madvr if i use lav video filter with dxva copy back? I mean, i want to use jinc 3 AR for chroma and luma with dxva copy back. I had no problems with no hardware acceleration, but my CPU will become hot and with dxva copy back there is less CPU usage...

DO i need to use "use a separate device for DXVA processing"? Or im fine with default settings?

TIA

[Plutotype]

madVR v0.86.11 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* added import functionality for eeColor 3dlut files

Madshi,
Can you please explain in a simple way, what is the benefit having the possibility to import eeColor 3dlut files in madVR?

Does this mean, that madVR can correct display perfomance using 3dlut correction tables created after calibration using Lightspace CMS software (not cheap) and eeColor processor? No need for a external video processor after video leaves the madVR based HTPC via HDMI then?

edit: found this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484257/madvr-now-support-lightspace-3d-cube-lut-files

Thanks

[ThurstonX]

As the title suggests, I just built a new HTPC with Intel HD Graphics 4000 on an Ivy Bridge Core i3. I'm running the latest stable MPC-HC, with the three LAV external filters preferred, and madVR. madVR is using mostly default settings. I only changed my display device parameters, and of course tried various scaling options (no Jinc 3 for Image Scaling :( ...but I knew it wouldn't handle that).

My initial tests yielded some funny results. First, as mentioned in the posts just above, the "Exclusive" banner doesn't clear. It does clear on my other PCs running madVR on Radeon HD 5670 & 6670. But that problem may be related to this...

When I move the cursor to expose the seek bar, the seek bar doesn't clear. Also, the CTRL+J stats do not clear. This is in full-screen exclusive. If I restore back to windowed mode, then go back to FSE, it's all good, until I try to seek again. Also, the time indication on the seek bar doesn't work (kinda stuck, though I've seen it flip back and forth from, e.g., 14:06/14:07/14:06, etc.).

With a 4:3 video, the seek bar clears where the video is, but is still visible (as a sort of afterimage) at the bottom left and right, outside the active video.

Is this an MPC-HC problem, an Intel driver problem? I've not changed much in the Intel control panel, except clear dynamic contrast to fix the 29/59 flicker problem. I've never used Intel HD Graphics for TV and video playback, so I'm a noob in respect to that. LAVs are set to their defaults, including software decoding. madVR's render times are great with Jinc 3+AR for Chroma and Soft Cubic 70+AR or Lanczos 3+AR for Image Scaling (Jinc 3+AR / Lanczos3+AR gives me about 11ms).

Thanks for any feedback. I'll keep poking around.

[michkrol]

the "Exclusive" banner doesn't clear. It does clear on my other PCs running madVR on Radeon HD 5670 & 6670.

It's driver's bug. For now disable "use separate device for presentation" in rendering->general settings. Or use older drivers.

Also I hope, you've mixed image and chroma algorithms, since using jinc3 for chroma is pointless if it means sacrificing image scaling quality. You'll only spot chroma upscaling differences on very specific images, like red object on light blue background and similar. Try checking it using "nearest neighbor" as kind of reference for low quality, both for chroma and image, you'll spot the difference instantly with image, not so with chroma. That said you should be ok with anything else for chroma (even bilinear). My preference is softcubic100 for chroma, but that's me.

Also MPC-HC nightly builds are worth checking out ( nightly.mpc-hc.org ), they're quite stable and "the" stable release is a little outdated.

[ThurstonX]

It's driver's bug. For now disable "use separate device for presentation" in rendering->general settings. Or use older drivers.

Also I hope, you've mixed image and chroma algorithms, since using jinc3 for chroma is pointless if it means sacrificing image scaling quality. You'll only spot chroma upscaling differences on very specific images, like red object on light blue background and similar. Try checking it using "nearest neighbor" as kind of reference for low quality, both for chroma and image, you'll spot the difference instantly with image, not so with chroma. That said you should be ok with anything else for chroma (even bilinear). My preference is softcubic100 for chroma, but that's me.

Also MPC-HC nightly builds are worth checking out ( nightly.mpc-hc.org ), they're quite stable and "the" stable release is a little outdated.

Thanks a lot for the info. I didn't mix the scaling, and I know Image is more "important," thus my sad face re: Jinc 3+AR ;) I couldn't tell much difference with the various Chroma algorithms. I just tried Jinc 3+AR to see how it affected the render stats. Definitely increased it. For some older SD content, Lanczos for Image was too much, and Soft Cubic, which I prefer for such things, was better. I prefer something a little sharper for better content.

Anyway, I'll try unchecking "use separate device for presentation" and see how it goes.

Cheers.

[SyrupBuccaneer]

Getting occasional freezing when transitioning from window to full-screen in Potplayer. Log is below.

-Opened file
-Browsed to bookmark
-Double click to fullscreen
-Completely frozen video/player, audio still playing.

[Gagorian]

I'm trying to verify the 3DLut created by ArgyllCMS. I'm using HCFR with madVR as pattern generator. As I'm running the greyscale series, is it normal that the grey screens are filled with some clear artifacting (posterization banding?)? Shouldn't it be homogenous? When playing the greyscale screens as .mp4 files from the AVSHD set there are no issues. There seems to be some compatibility issues as well, often the test patterns just freeze at 0/n. The ArgyllCMS patches in the madVR pattern generator also exhibit similar artifacting.

I also seem to be getting better results using DispcalGUI and generating a .icm profile and loading it than I did using the command lines to create a 3Dlut for MadVR. What are the advantages in madVR of a 3DLut compared a loaded .icm profile? I'm at least having issues with the full screen patterns, sometimes the deltaE's can go up to 15, but sometimes they are within 0-2 dE without doing any changes to the monitor or the profile. Is this an issue with the .icm profile not being applied?

[huhn]

you can use jinc 3 ar with an hd 4000

just set the cpu queue to 9-16 gpu to 9 (or to backbuffer +1) backbuffer to 8 don't use smoothmotion and don't use fullscreen exclusive mode and ofc don't use jinc 3 for chroma.

i didn't tryed it for 24hz +but u can try it.

[ThurstonX]

you can use jinc 3 ar with an hd 4000

just set the cpu queue to 9-16 gpu to 9 (or to backbuffer +1) backbuffer to 8 don't use smoothmotion and don't use fullscreen exclusive mode and ofc don't use jinc 3 for chroma.

i didn't tryed it for 24hz +but u can try it.

Yep, as michkrol noted, unchecking "use separate device for presentation" did the trick. I'd forgotten about it, as I rarely use this laptop for video playback, but I use the same setting on it. And as you note, I was able to get Jinc 3+AR for Image Scaling, but I left the buffer settings at their defaults. And Smooth Motion is just fine, as is FSE. But yeah, Jinc 3 for Chroma just dogged it, and made no sense.

Soft Cubic still rules for crappy encodes, esp. things like VCR captures and ancient AVIs. But Jinc 3+AR is da bomb for better quality videos.

I played back a DVD rip that's 23.976 fps using Soft Cubic 70+AR and Jinc 3+AR. Smooth Motion activated, and it was all glorious.

I'm still mucking about with Chroma settings, but without getting into a detailed method of comparison, just viewing a few files and changing them, I can't tell much difference. Soft Cubic 70+AR seems just fine.

Anyway, thanks for all the help :)

[THX-UltraII]

why do you wanna remove it..??
it's a good sign that madVR is working..

I have to disagree with you on this. My HTPC is stable as hell and madVR works flawlessly and perfect and I know 1000% sure that exclusive mode is ALWAYS working. So there is really no need for me for the exclusive notification.

I (and I expect other too) use my HTPC and I don t want to notice ANYTHING about it beeing a PC. When I startup my system I immediately go to XBMC and I use MPC-BE as external player. The exclusive notification is the last esthetic thing I would like to see removed.

[dansrfe]

Ok, so my situation is probably not a common one but just thought I'd mention it. When using different refresh rates with my particular monitor, the gamma curve of the display and/or luminance level darkens/lightens. Due to this I have to create separate ICC profiles and 3DLUTs.

However, madVR doesn't support loading of different 3DLUTs upon refresh rate switch therefore I just leave the monitor at 96Hz and disable the display mode switcher. However, that turns on smooth motion in cases where the refresh rate could have been switched to a multiple of the frame rate.

[6233638]

i found a resize bug in in madvr
lanczos8ar video codec is ZMBV output is rgb24 http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/lanczos8ar325f536apng.png
unscaled it looks like this http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/schweif0024877b96bavisnapshot004877b96b0020134877b96b084877b96b10214877b96b304877b96b394877b96bpng.png
bilinear and dxva look very similar and flicker with my gtx 760
jinc 3-8 without ar/with ar looks bad too
jinc 3 ar: http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/jinc3ar6af6b90dpng.png
a lot of details are destroyed
i hope there isn't something wrong with my 760I can't reproduce this on my system.

That said, generally increasing the number of taps will increase sharpness and reduce aliasing, but greatly reduce image quality due to the increase in ringing. (even with the AR filter enabled) I recommend sticking to the 3-tap variants of any algorithm.

And as for Jinc 3 destroying details - it is a scaling algorithm that is best suited to video footage rather than computer graphics. (especially pixel art) One of the things which Jinc does compared to the other scaling algorithms available in madVR is that it will smooth out diagonal lines - which is normally great for video, but can be destructive with pixel art as you have found out.

In some cases, you may even want to switch to Nearest Neighbor scaling when viewing pixel art. You can set up keyboard shortcuts to manually switch algorithms in madVR's preferences. (because you would not want to use Nearest Neighbor with other video content)

I do think it is interesting that Jinc 3 turns the dither into the intermediate shade that it was trying to approximate though. This is something that CRTs did naturally (well, they did when using a poor connection at least - not via RGB) and is something that emulators are only just starting to tackle (http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2013/06/dedithering-pixel-shaders.html).

madVR's render times are great with Jinc 3+AR for Chroma and Soft Cubic 70+AR or Lanczos 3+AR for Image Scaling (Jinc 3+AR / Lanczos3+AR gives me about 11ms).I don't recommend using the anti-ringing filter with SoftCubic scaling, and you may wish to reconsider using Jinc scaling for Chroma if it allows you to use better Luma settings. (though SoftCubic is still my preferred algorithm for DVD content anyway)

Most people will not see a difference between Bicubic 75 AR, Lanczos 3 AR, or Jinc 3 AR chroma.
It also depends what your display is doing - many process in 4:2:2, so anything above Bicubic 75 AR is wasted.

I'm still mucking about with Chroma settings, but without getting into a detailed method of comparison, just viewing a few files and changing them, I can't tell much difference. Soft Cubic 70+AR seems just fine.If you search through my post history, you should be able to find some detailed comparisons that illustrate the worst-case scenarios for chroma. (red text on black)

The short version is to use one of the three options I listed above. Use Jinc 3 if your display is capable of showing 4:4:4 and you have the GPU power spare, but in most cases, you won't even see the difference there. I would be happy using Bicubic 75 AR.

[huhn]

i just tryd it on my second pc (amd 6770) and i can't reproduce it too.

it is still happening on my main pc (gtx 760) plus the bilinear/dxva flicker problem. so there is something wrong with my pc or nvidia ...

In some cases, you may even want to switch to Nearest Neighbor scaling when viewing pixel art. You can set up keyboard shortcuts to manually switch algorithms in madVR's preferences. (because you would not want to use Nearest Neighbor with other video content)

in this case i would love to have an resize option to 1600x1000 (source is 320x200) with nearest neighbor and then a different resize to 1080p

[ThurstonX]

I don't recommend using the anti-ringing filter with SoftCubic scaling, and you may wish to reconsider using Jinc scaling for Chroma if it allows you to use better Luma settings. (though SoftCubic is still my preferred algorithm for DVD content anyway)

Most people will not see a difference between Bicubic 75 AR, Lanczos 3 AR, or Jinc 3 AR chroma.
It also depends what your display is doing - many process in 4:2:2, so anything above Bicubic 75 AR is wasted.

If you search through my post history, you should be able to find some detailed comparisons that illustrate the worst-case scenarios for chroma. (red text on black)

The short version is to use one of the three options I listed above. Use Jinc 3 if your display is capable of showing 4:4:4 and you have the GPU power spare, but in most cases, you won't even see the difference there. I would be happy using Bicubic 75 AR.

Thanks, I was hoping you'd throw out a few tips :D I always enjoy and certainly appreciate all the testing and posts you've made re: scaling.

You've given me good food for thought. I have Jinc 3+AR for both on my main HTPC (core i5, Radeon HD 6670 w/ 1GB GDDR 5). I'll turn off AR for Chroma and see how that looks.

On the Intel HD Graphics system in question Jinc 3+AR for Chroma disrupted the rendering, but I haven't had a chance to try it without AR. When I've time, I'll try it and the others you mention. It's mostly a TV PC (US digital through a Ceton InfiniTV 4), and most video files watched are low-res, so I end up with Soft Cubic ##+AR for Image.

TV is an LG 42LD550.

Anyway, thanks again :)

[6233638]

Thanks, I was hoping you'd throw out a few tips :D I always enjoy and certainly appreciate all the testing and posts you've made re: scaling.No problem. :) I really need to go back through this topic and compile a list of the posts which still have useful examples in them. madVR has changed so much that some of them may not be relevant any more.

You've given me good food for thought. I have Jinc 3+AR for both on my main HTPC (core i5, Radeon HD 6670 w/ 1GB GDDR 5). I'll turn off AR for Chroma and see how that looks.I would actually suggest dropping down to a "lower level" of chroma scaling (preferably Lanczos 3 or Bicubic 75) that you can run with the AR filter, than using Jinc 3 with the AR filter disabled - in most cases, it's a better trade-off.

It's really very rare that you need anything more than Bicubic 75 AR. http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1606910&postcount=16513
This comparison was done against Jinc 8, but it is not a recommendation for people to use Jinc 8 - Jinc 3 AR actually looks better than Jinc 8 99% of the time. If I recall correctly, I left Lanczos 3 out because it's almost indistinguishable from Bicubic 75.

I probably wouldn't recommend anyone increase Chroma above Bicubic 75 AR unless they are already using Jinc 3 AR Luma, have a display capable of showing 4:4:4 chroma, and have GPU power to spare.

When I've time, I'll try it and the others you mention. It's mostly a TV PC (US digital through a Ceton InfiniTV 4), and most video files watched are low-res, so I end up with Soft Cubic ##+AR for Image.Again, I don't recommend SoftCubic with the anti-ringing filter.

I think the anti-ringing filter has been improved since this comparison was made, but these images illustrate what happens when you use SoftCubic+AR:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/normal4bp0h.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/normal4bp0h.jpg) http://www.abload.de/thumb/ar2eoq2.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/ar2eoq2.jpg)
Pay attention to the edges of the X in particular.
I don't recall there being problems using the AR filter with other algorithms.

TV is an LG 42LD550.
Chroma Resolution Test Pattern (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1634871&postcount=19379)
4:4:4 and 4:2:2 examples using this pattern (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1635106&postcount=19399)

If your display processes chroma in 4:2:2, there's no need to use anything more than Bicubic 75 AR - even that may be more than you need.

[ThurstonX]

No problem. :) I really need to go back through this topic and compile a list of the posts which still have useful examples in them. madVR has changed so much that some of them may not be relevant any more.

That would be a great service to the community.

Again, I don't recommend SoftCubic with the anti-ringing filter.

I think the anti-ringing filter has been improved since this comparison was made, but these images illustrate what happens when you use SoftCubic+AR:

Pay attention to the edges of the X in particular.
I don't recall there being problems using the AR filter with other algorithms.


Chroma Resolution Test Pattern (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1634871&postcount=19379)
4:4:4 and 4:2:2 examples using this pattern (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1635106&postcount=19399)

If your display processes chroma in 4:2:2, there's no need to use anything more than Bicubic 75 AR - even that may be more than you need.

Yep, the 'X' caught my eye immediately. I need to make a file of tests to run. Too much to keep in me 'ead ;)

Cheers.

[ryrynz]

That would be a great service to the community.


The man has done so much already!

Madshi may I suggest adding whatever 6233638 manages to cook up into your second post for stickiness?

[leeperry]

Yeah, kudos for the 4:4:4 split screen test pattern that allowed me to find out that only HD DVB-T is processed in full chroma resolution on my new flat screen. The trick I've found to get 4:4:4 HDMI is to enable PIP(with an HD DVB-T channel) then instantly turn if off et voilà! 4:4:4 mVR goodness :cool:

I'm now annoying their tech support to have its firmware fixed("oh my, it's going way over my head, nobody ever called us for this kind of problem" :sly:), and they should take me seriously or I'll call their head office :devil:

It's a shame this pattern can't easily be located and will end up drowned into this gigantic thread within a few weeks/months :scared:

[Qaq]

TV is an LG 42LD550.
LG must support 4:4:4 no problem. What you need is to set HDMI input to PC (RGB) and change black level to High (or Low, can't say for sure) for 0-255.

[Raylan Givens]

I have some mkv movies and when the upstream says "full range" then I get "limited range" on my PC monitor ( too bright, no deep black ). I guess this is a bug or something, right? MPC HC without MadVr does show the same clips with correct, full range no matter what the upstream says. Incidentally, when MadVr gets "limited range" it outputs the movie correctly in full range...

Also, is there a way to get MPCHC's native OSD? I find it truly nice whilst on the other hand, MadVr's could get a few improvements in design...

[Skankee]

@6233638:

As already mentioned by some people, your linked test-pattern does not work if your TV does 4:2:0 subsampling (4:2:0 and 4:4:4 looks identical).

I personally dont like test-patterns that can show you wrong results, so i would thank you if you add this information to your (old) post.

(even if only very old TVs are affected, we dont know how many people with a 4:2:0 TV are reading this thread ;) )

[6233638]

As already mentioned by some people, your linked test-pattern does not work if your TV does 4:2:0 subsampling (4:2:0 and 4:4:4 looks identical).

I personally dont like test-patterns that can show you wrong results, so i would thank you if you add this information to your (old) post.That's true - although, as far as I know, the only display that seems to apply to is a Pioneer Kuro. I don't know of anything else which processes chroma in 4:2:0, and I would think that most people that have a PC setup capable of running madVR will not be using a display old enough where that is going to be a problem.

Without having access to a display which processes in 4:2:0, it's difficult for me to create a pattern which will test for that.

Can someone with a Kuro (or another display known to process in 4:2:0?) test this?
http://www.abload.de/img/420-small4doz9.png (http://www.abload.de/img/420mgrnq.png)

If your display is only capable of 4:2:0 resolution, you should not be able to see any lines in the left pattern, and I think the whole image will appear to be the same color.
With a 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 display, the pattern on the left should appear to be distinct red and blue alternating lines.

If your display is only capable of 4:2:2 resolution, the right pattern will appear to be noticeably darker than the center pattern, and seem to be a solid color. (example here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1635106&postcount=19399))

If your display is capable of 4:4:4 resolution, the patterns in the center and on the right should appear to be roughly the same color. They may differ slightly because one is made from horizontal lines and the other is a checkerboard pattern.

[ThurstonX]

LG must support 4:4:4 no problem. What you need is to set HDMI input to PC (RGB) and change black level to High (or Low, can't say for sure) for 0-255.

Yep, and how quickly I forget things I've already posted! Must be gittin' old :p

Quite a few advanced features get lost when setting the input to 'PC'. May have to do some comparisons again, once the TV is free (oh when will that be? ;-)

[Skankee]

@6233638:

At 4:2:0 the lines in the left are still visible, but it looks much brighter than the middle+right


http://s14.directupload.net/images/130813/3oys7o9q.jpg

http://s7.directupload.net/images/130813/d2ej3diz.jpg

http://s14.directupload.net/images/130813/27ckeana.jpg

edit: i use my (cheap) LG LCD TV for this test, so not only Kuros are affected.

[6233638]

At 4:2:0 the lines in the left are still visible, but it looks much brighter than the middle+rightThank you for testing this - I think this is what you should expect. (I was rushed earlier)

Seeing your photographs gave me an idea though. Does this work for you?

EDIT: Updated the pattern.

Updated Pattern to test for 4:2:0 here: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1673852&postcount=25082

http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-small-2ygo6v.png (http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-large-29ooi6.png)

Hopefully this pattern will work to easily identify what your display is using for chroma processing.

4:4:4 and 4:2:2 should be obvious, and it seems that the image should just appear to be a solid color with 4:2:0 processing.
4:4:4 example (http://www.abload.de/img/444-photo6krz2.jpg), 4:2:2 example (http://www.abload.de/img/422-photo6dr38.jpg).

EDIT: 720p friendly pattern (http://s14.directupload.net/images/130815/fo4y4cgf.png).

Large (http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-large92ppv.png)
Small (http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-smallb5p1m.png)

Ideally the text will disappear if the chroma is being downsampled.

A 4:4:4 display will show both "4:2:2" and "4:4:4"
A 4:2:2 display should only show "4:2:2"
A 4:2:0 display should not show any text.

There may be a faint outline visible, but the text should be distinct against the background. (4:4:4 example (http://www.abload.de/img/photo-13gqwn.jpg), 4:2:2 example (http://www.abload.de/img/photo-20jqdu.jpg))
I suppose I could also add 4:2:0 text, but that seems redundant.

[sebas_led]

Hi Madshi:

First thanks for MadVR, it's really cool.
Second, there is a chance to have MadVR as processing filter?
I want to upscale and frame rate adjust some streams. The output could be sent to a file, to a virtual camera device or to BlackMagic card.

Thanks in advance!

[psousa]

hi.
i read somewhere on this topic some problem with madVR and ati graphics drivers. this has been fixed? i want buy a laptop with i5 480m + hd5650m but after i read those comments about ati drivers i got scared.

and if that driver issue is already fixed the hd5650m is a good gpu for madVR or is better to buy a laptop with nvidia gpu so i can have CUDA?

have some urgency because i will buy a laptop in next days.

thanks

[Skankee]

http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-small-2ygo6v.png (http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-large-29ooi6.png)

Hopefully this pattern will work to easily identify what your display is using for chroma processing.

4:4:4 and 4:2:2 should be obvious, and it seems that the image should just appear to be a solid color with 4:2:0 processing.


Both test-pattern works as intended. I like the idea that only the letters are changing their colour in the new version.

(the image looks so blue because my camera messed it up...)

http://s7.directupload.net/images/130814/o3nxrcp6.png


(your old version: http://s1.directupload.net/images/130814/tz7cn3be.png )

[QBhd]

Excellent work 6233638... Now I know for sure my LG is outputting in 4:2:2

Now with that knowledge, is there any settings in madVR that I need to set to make my image quality as high as possible?

QB

[dansrfe]

i want buy a laptop with i5 480m + hd5650m but after i read those comments about ati drivers i got scared.

I'd highly recommend not getting an ATI card in your laptop since you're buying a new one anyways. What you've read about ATI's driver's not being as stable as NVidia's is true based on personal experience.

I have a laptop with an ATI Mobility GPU 4570 from 2009 and built a desktop with an nvidia card and the difference in driver stability is clear.

Just my 2 cents.

[nghiabeo20]

one very stupid question, madshi. I have a 1366x768 monitor, and a fullhd tv. If i play fullhd movie (cpu decode), the cpu usage when i connect to fullhd tv will be lower than when i connect to the monitor, right? because i think cpu doesn't need to downscale image. thanks!

[6233638]

Excellent work 6233638... Now I know for sure my LG is outputting in 4:2:2

Now with that knowledge, is there any settings in madVR that I need to set to make my image quality as high as possible?There aren't really any changes you need to make as far as quality is concerned, but if your display is only showing 4:2:2 chroma, then you can gain some performance by lowering the chroma scaling algorithm in madVR.

While displays may handle chroma slightly differently, on my Sony LCD Jinc 3 AR and Lanczos 3 AR look identical when it's in a mode that processes in 4:2:2 - and Bicubic 75 AR is likely going to look the same as well.

You can still tell the difference between them and anything worse (e.g. Bilinear, SoftCubic) but the differences between chroma scaling algorithms are far smaller if your display is not showing 4:4:4.

Here's some testing I did on this a while ago: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1614315&postcount=17361

[psousa]

I'd highly recommend not getting an ATI card in your laptop since you're buying a new one anyways. What you've read about ATI's driver's not being as stable as NVidia's is true based on personal experience.

I have a laptop with an ATI Mobility GPU 4570 from 2009 and built a desktop with an nvidia card and the difference in driver stability is clear.

Just my 2 cents.

hi.
thanks for the reply. the problems with ATI in your experience is with madVR in special or in general?

i had some laptops and lot of desktop ati/amd gpu and never had much problem with drivers. i ask this because the laptop i will buy is used and can have a good deal with that laptop.

im try to find laptops with similar performance nvidia gpu and the prices are much higher

[leeperry]

Does this work for you?
not workee as intended anymore here, you broke my bubble :scared:

I see 4:2:2 on HDMI if I don't enable PIP: http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/27044/20100f270434335.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/20100f270434335)

but if I do(with a HD TV channel), I get this: http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/27044/7ed80b270434337.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7ed80b270434337) http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/27044/74d68b270434338.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/74d68b270434338)

It's a 2013 sammy TV and if others can confirm that this test pattern work as it's supposed to then I'm more or less SOL with J3AR chroma..

Enabling its game mode doesn't change anything and this new test pattern doesn't really match my experience as I don't see why they'd process SD DVB-T in 4:2:2 and HD DVB-T in 4:2:0...Maybe because its onboard processor can't handle that much data, though.

I'll try the other HDMI inputs :o

[QBhd]

There aren't really any changes you need to make as far as quality is concerned, but if your display is only showing 4:2:2 chroma, then you can gain some performance by lowering the chroma scaling algorithm in madVR.

While displays may handle chroma slightly differently, on my Sony LCD Jinc 3 AR and Lanczos 3 AR look identical when it's in a mode that processes in 4:2:2 - and Bicubic 75 AR is likely going to look the same as well.

You can still tell the difference between them and anything worse (e.g. Bilinear, SoftCubic) but the differences between chroma scaling algorithms are far smaller if your display is not showing 4:4:4.

Here's some testing I did on this a while ago: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1614315&postcount=17361

Thanks... my 5770 seems to handle anything I throw at it for the resolutions I run (1024x768p72, 1024x768p60) and that is with Jinc 3 AR, Jinc 3 AR and Catmull-Rom AR LL so I don't need to gain any performance.

Thanks, your insights and testing are always top shelf stuff :)

QB

[QBhd]

not workee as intended anymore here, you broke my bubble :scared:

I see 4:2:2 on HDMI if I don't enable PIP: http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/27044/20100f270434335.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/20100f270434335)

but if I do(with a HD TV channel), I get this: http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/27044/7ed80b270434337.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7ed80b270434337) http://thumbnails103.imagebam.com/27044/74d68b270434338.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/74d68b270434338)

It's a 2013 sammy TV and if others can confirm that this test pattern work as it's supposed to then I'm more or less SOL with J3AR chroma..

Enabling its game mode doesn't change anything and this new test pattern doesn't really match my experience as I don't see why they'd process SD DVB-T in 4:2:2 and HD DVB-T in 4:2:0...Maybe because its onboard processor can't handle that much data, though.

I'll try the other HDMI inputs :o

My 2007 LG 720p (1024x768 rectangular pixels) still ouputs 4:2:2 even with PIP active (OTA HDTV channel in the PIP)... so not sure what your Sammy is doing

QB