madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[stefanelli73]

It might be a bandwidth issue. For such high resolutions, a lot of data needs to be copied to/from the GPU memory.

Try D3D11 hardware acceleration in LAV Video decoder.

it's the same thing also with D3D11.

[mrmojo666]

just mine or everyone's?, guess thats what i'm trying to find out :)

same here with amd rx 460.

but honestly i found as workaround to get rid of strange glowing reds and oversaturated colors, to use only windowed mode. It happens only with FSE. So now all looks perfect 8bit or 10 biit. I don't know what i'm missing using windowed mode, but it works very well.

[mytbyte]

same here with amd rx 460.

but honestly i found as workaround to get rid of strange glowing reds and oversaturated colors, to use only windowed mode. It happens only with FSE. So now all looks perfect 8bit or 10 biit. I don't know what i'm missing using windowed mode, but it works very well.

Probably nothing if U use Windows 10, it was required before that for 10 bit output.

[Polopretress]

i have a question linked to the hardware decoder used with Lav Audio. When i select DXVA2 (native) on a 32 bits configuration , madVR is bypassed for any treatment but it is working fine on a 64 bits configuration.

Is it a known behaviour ?


Today, is it better to select D3D11 or DXVA2 (copy back) ?

[mytbyte]

@Polopretess: I don't find this to be true...it's only that DXVA native (not D3D11 native) doesn't work with some features of MadVR (like chroma scaling)...

[nevcairiel]

@Polopretess: I don't find this to be true...it's only that DXVA native (not D3D11 native) doesn't work with some features of MadVR (like chroma scaling)...

The only features that don't work are IVTC and black border detection. Scaling, including Chroma, work just fine. The same limitations apply to D3D11 native, because those are software algorithms not on the GPU.

[mytbyte]

@nevcariel: I don't know, man...when using LAV DXVA native decoder, chroma scaling is always reported as < or > DXVA in OSD, no matter what I choose in the settings...also madshi confirmed that...

[el Filou]

You need to uncheck Use DXVA chroma upscaling when doing native DXVA decoding in the Trade quality for performance settings screen.

[sauma144]

I think madshi should remove this "trade quality for performance" option.

[mytbyte]

@filou: OK...got it...defaults seem to be favouring weaker gfx hardware (perhaps some autodetection of gfx card's performance and auto-configuraton would be nice, or I'm missing that too)...MadVR seems more complex than any post-production compositing software I'm using...

[huhn]

DXVA chroma scaling for DXVA native decoding make a lot of sense because you will get worse chroma even with the trade quality for performance option.
if you want better quality use software, DXVA copy back or d3d11.

and DXVA native is default in MPC-HC not in the stand alone version of lavfilter.

I think madshi should remove this "trade quality for performance" option.

no just no...

[mclingo]

same here with amd rx 460.

but honestly i found as workaround to get rid of strange glowing reds and oversaturated colors, to use only windowed mode. It happens only with FSE. So now all looks perfect 8bit or 10 biit. I don't know what i'm missing using windowed mode, but it works very well.

so i'm not the only one it must be an issue with MADVR then or GPU drivers.

I need FSE for 3D, sure I tried turning this off as a test though, i'll have another go.

Would still like MADSHI to have a look at what is going on here if this is ineed an issue with all RX cards.


I have FSE and windowed mode unticked, still get blown out reds, only removed DIRECT3D11 tick resolves for me but this means no HDR so this isnt a solution for me. LAV renderer also makes no difference so whatever is happening is happening in MADVR so I think the solution lays there if MADSHI can find out whats going on.

If anyone else can find a solution or has something else I can try let me know.

[cca310]

I am having an issue that I am not seeing exactly in this thread.

I am having very strange presentation glitches even on the lowest settings on madvr.

1. If I use exclusive full screen mode, presentation glitches will happen very quickly, hundreds and hundreds of them.

2. If I have anything on my second monitor, the presentation glitches will start rapidly increasing. If I were to watch a movie on my computer with madvr. I need to close everything on my second monitor.

3. When I toggle the information with CTRL + J, is will always say frame drop every 1 minute, but I will never actually accumulate any frame drops. What does this mean?

I have a suspicion on what this could be. Windows 10 has a bug, as well as nvidia drivers to some degree I believe, in the way it draws the desktop. I have a 144hz main monitor and a 60hz secondary. Anytime there is anything on the second monitor, Windows 10 puts a 60hz vsync across both displays which makes my main monitor lag. OF course, I am just not sure.

I am running the latest version of Windows 10. I have a 7700K processor, my main monitor is on my GTX 1080, and my second monitor is on the IGPU of the processor.

[huhn]

windows 10 desktop composition is broken. there is little you can do about this try windows 7 overlay and don'T forget to disable FSE because that doesn't seem to work for you.

[clsid]

FSE does not really have much benefits on Windows 10. Functionality that required FSE on older versions of Windows also works in windowed mode in current Windows 10.

If you really need FSE, then disable "fullscreen optimizations" in the compatibility settings of your player (right-click on .exe > properties > compatibility). Also disable the game bar in Windows 10.

I think I read somewhere on nvidia forum that the vsync issue might get fixed in next Windows 10 build.

[mclingo]

@MADSHI - ive logged the two outstanding issues I have as bugs and provided workarounds.

1. Black screen coming out of 1080p 3D MVC back to 2160p 60hz desktop - workaround - use fresh rate switching in video player rather than MADVR or set your desktop to 1080p before starting the movie.
2. Incorrect colours displayed with Calibration off setting on AMD RX cards - workaround - use calibration settings in MADVR.

[Polopretress]

@nevcariel: I don't know, man...when using LAV DXVA native decoder, chroma scaling is always reported as < or > DXVA in OSD, no matter what I choose in the settings...also madshi confirmed that...

It is not what i have on my htpc. that's the reason of my question.
all is working fine using dxva2(native) setting on a 64bits bundle.
Only the 32 bits bundle is not working well.

What is your bundle (32 or 64 bits) ?

For information, i do not want to use DXVA2 (native) since i have switched on D3D11 but i would like to understand why i have this difference between 32 and 64 bits bundle for DXVA2 (native) selection.

EDIT :
You need to uncheck Use DXVA chroma upscaling when doing native DXVA decoding in the Trade quality for performance settings screen.
OK. Thank.
this option was checked on my 32 bits bundle....

So now that this setting is working fine on both 32 and 64 bits configuration, i would like to have confirmation on the limitation of such setting because for me , it appears like it works fine for image enhancement and upscaling refinement (after doubling).

[Robominator]

Just received my new Beamer , a JVC x7900. I already calibrated the Rec709.
But what would be the best Color profile for it to use with Madvr ?

[mytbyte]

It is not what i have on my htpc. that's the reason of my question.
all is working fine using dxva2(native) setting on a 64bits bundle.
Only the 32 bits bundle is not working well.

What is your bundle (32 or 64 bits) ?

For information, i do not want to use DXVA2 (native) since i have switched on D3D11 but i would like to understand why i have this difference between 32 and 64 bits bundle for DXVA2 (native) selection.



I use both 32 and 64 bit MPC-HC, I suppose the 32-bit version can only use 32-bit LAV filters...and everything works the same as in 64-bit MPC-HC, as far as i can see. I don't quite understand what is it that doesn't work for you in 32-bit with DXVA native?

[mytbyte]

Just received my new Beamer , a JVC x7900. I already calibrated the Rec709.
But what would be the best Color profile for it to use with Madvr ?

What do you mean by color profile? If you refer to the option "this display is already calibrated" you should use Rec.709 with whatever gamma was measured by your calibration software. probably "disable calibration" will also work well if you calibrated to 2.2 gamma

[Polopretress]

i add an edit. it was the configuration of "trade quality..." that was different.
Now 32 and 64 bits work the same.

But what is it supposed to not work correctly with this option because i do not see any difference? (native)

[el Filou]

On most (all? I never remember which ones have a problem with it) GPUs, native DXVA2 decoding does not give full quality chroma, so the idea behind that Trade quality for performance option is that as you already don't have the highest quality subsampled chroma to start with, it's better not to waste processing power by using madVR's high quality scaling and to just use the GPU's DXVA algorithm for chroma upscaling too as it's faster and less power hungry.

[j82k]

Does the gamma setting in "this display is already calibrated" work for anybody for SDR content? It doesn't have any effect for me for SDR but it does when playing HDR converted to SDR.

[huhn]

it only has an effect if you use it together with gamma processing. HDR is gamma processing.

[Robominator]

What do you mean by color profile? If you refer to the option "this display is already calibrated" you should use Rec.709 with whatever gamma was measured by your calibration software. probably "disable calibration" will also work well if you calibrated to 2.2 gamma

Ok , and will it map directly to HDR then through Madvr ? i mean the Dynamic HDR ? or will i need to make another Color Profile ?

[mytbyte]

@robominator: well, you are confusing me a bit with color profile term - ICC color profiles don't work with MadVR...however, if you mean MadVR's display device profiles, that's another matter. If you choose to passthrough HDR to the projector, the Rec709 calibration you did may be irrelevant because the projector changes mode and gamut interpretation when HDR signal is present - you really need to additionally calibrate it in HDR mode, with HDR patterns. Generally a profile is not needed because passthough will bypass calibration option anyway, even if you choose the option to process HDR by supplying the measured gamut of your PJ in HDR mode...

[ashlar42]

As I watch, astonished, the prices for GPUs, I wonder: is a 1050Ti good enough to upscale to 4K? SD material? 702p? 1080P? With what settings.

No way I'm gonna spend $400 for a GTX 1060 6GB. Not interested in AMD graphic cards, btw.

[mclingo]

1050i should be ok, I can upscale 720p stuff ok as long as I dial down my quality settings, I can just about do NGU low with my RX550 which is inferior to the 1050i for upscaling, chroma has to be left on lanzos though.

[steakhutzeee]

Time ago, if i remember this right, an user told me that madvr can have issues if in the name of the file are present numbers or symbols. Is this still valid?

[huhn]

madVr can read the file name and change some setting depending on it.

[Asmodian]

The only issue is madVR doing something unexpected if you accidentally use a filename token.

[djc5166]

Is anyone with a LG OLED set using 1080p@120hz through madVR for older content that has a VFR mix of 23.976fps and 29.97fps content? I quite like the display mode profiles that makes this really easy to set per resolution/refresh type.

I have a few encodes of older DVDs, mostly anime, with interlaced credits/digital effects but are IVTC 24p otherwise. It seemed like letting madvr scaling to 1080p@120hz was the easiest way to get the playback of these types of video correct throughout, letting the TV upscale the result to 4k.

I've found 60hz to be noticeably juddery, and 24hz kind of falls apart in the 29.97fps sections.

Just curious to see what other people are using, I assume letting madvr upscale to 4k itself probably has better PQ than what the TV would do, but I don't know much about the scaling engine in these OLED TVs. Some places say it's good, others say it's terrible.

[Asmodian]

I prefer smooth motion at 4K 60 Hz over 1080p 120Hz on my OLED55C7P. NGU Sharp very high is usually quite a bit better than whatever the TV uses to fill the screen when receiving a 1080p signal, and I can switch to NGU AA or similar when Sharp is too sharp. However, I don't watch much mixed content.

[djc5166]

I prefer smooth motion at 4K 60 Hz over 1080p 120Hz on my OLED55C7P. NGU Sharp very high is usually quite a bit better than whatever the TV uses to fill the screen when receiving a 1080p signal, and I can switch to NGU AA or similar when Sharp is too sharp. However, I don't watch much mixed content.

Thanks, I'll take a look at these settings. I have a 65B7. I guess I was under the impression to stay away from these kind of blending features, but maybe the smoothing stuff just kind of sucks on the TVs themselves?

Maybe a dumb question, is there a way for madvr to check for VFR content in the profile scripts? Does mkv even have a flag for it? Is there anyway to check for mixed content files short of running into the frame rate as you play it?

[Asmodian]

Not that I know of. :(

[huhn]

smooth motion can do this too and you don't have to use the garbage TV scaler.

[takenori]

does custom modes optimize option disabled now?
i tried rebooting and unplugging after clicking the test mode, but optimize option still greyed out. (also, after clicking test mode, it goes right to "unknown timing details" without "not measured yet")
and i cant use reset gpu. last time i use that, my pc blacked out, had to enter into safe mode and reinstall gpu driver

[Sunset1982]

too bad that the 2018 OLEDs don't have HDMI 2.1!

would be exciting to see what smooth motion in 4K@120hz would look like...

[FDisk80]

does custom modes optimize option disabled now?
i tried rebooting and unplugging after clicking the test mode, but optimize option still greyed out. (also, after clicking test mode, it goes right to "unknown timing details" without "not measured yet")
and i cant use reset gpu. last time i use that, my pc blacked out, had to enter into safe mode and reinstall gpu driver

If you are using NVIDIA card they fucked up the latest driver. Not possible to create custom resolutions or refresh rates. Go back to the previous one. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1835189#post1835189

[Manni]

If you are using NVIDIA card they fucked up the latest driver. Not possible to create custom resolutions or refresh rates. Go back to the previous one. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1835189#post1835189

Not for everyone. I'm using a custom refresh rate (created by MadVR, not by the nVidia CP) for 4K23 and it works fine, no frame drop/repeat for 1-2 hours.

[Warner306]

Just curious to see what other people are using, I assume letting madvr upscale to 4k itself probably has better PQ than what the TV would do, but I don't know much about the scaling engine in these OLED TVs. Some places say it's good, others say it's terrible.

I still think matching refresh rates is the "correct" way to do it. Smooth motion is completely an acquired taste. I don't like it. Others do.

And always use madVR's upscaling if possible. Do your think your OLED has the processing horsepower of a gaming GPU? That's what madVR's scaling algorithms are all about.

[huhn]

it's unlikely that anyone will spot the difference at 120 hz.
if it is working correctly it's not visible.

and VFR is not really possible to frame match in any case.

[Warner306]

it's unlikely that anyone will spot the difference at 120 hz.
if it is working correctly it's not visible.

and VFR is not really possible to frame match in any case.

Yes, I missed the variable frame rate part.

[huhn]

in a perfect world with working TV and no VFR content SM would be only useful for PC screens.

just as a small reminder if SM is more smooth than frame matching you simply have one of the countless TVs that can't frame rate match to 24p and with that it is unable to present the creators intend.

[takenori]

If you are using NVIDIA card they fucked up the latest driver. Not possible to create custom resolutions or refresh rates. Go back to the previous one. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1835189#post1835189

Not for everyone. I'm using a custom refresh rate (created by MadVR, not by the nVidia CP) for 4K23 and it works fine, no frame drop/repeat for 1-2 hours.
thanks for the input.
now after disabling DSR, they works, even got a perfectly optimized status for 23. i use latest whql driver (created with madvr too, not nvidia cp)

though i must add another question, if i change my audio output (from direct audio jack from pc to monitor's jack) is it normal that the frame drops/repeat got worst and i need to make another optimization again?

[huhn]

depends.

if the monitor takes the audio signal from HDMI yes it has a different clock.

[djc5166]

it's unlikely that anyone will spot the difference at 120 hz.
if it is working correctly it's not visible.

and VFR is not really possible to frame match in any case.

in a perfect world with working TV and no VFR content SM would be only useful for PC screens.

just as a small reminder if SM is more smooth than frame matching you simply have one of the countless TVs that can't frame rate match to 24p and with that it is unable to present the creators intend.


With 4k@60hz, SM seems to work very well with everything I've thrown at it. I don't think I see any noticeable blurring. I don't think I can really notice a difference in smoothness vs frame matching, and now the resolution/refresh doesn't need to switch back and forth for every video.

1080p@120hz seemed to be matching perfectly for my VFR stuff. 23.976 an 29.97 both fit into this evenly, or am I thinking about this wrong? I actually had to set it to 119hz in madvr (for 119.88) to get it perfect, i guess similar to setting 23hz for 23.976.

But madVR upscaling everything to 4k seems to be a lot better PQ than letting the TV do it, so I think I'll stick with SM until 4k@120hz is a thing :D

[Graeme Gill]

I don't know about web browsers, but software like Photoshop seems to be able to apply an ICC profile with no perceivable delay.
There's quite a difference between concatenating the pre-built ICC A2B and B2A tables and then crunching the pixels with the resulting link, vs. creating the B2A table by inverting the A2B with any accuracy and/or computing a sophisticate gamut mapping.

And it would be pretty ludicrous to say that professional image editing software like Photoshop do this in subpar quality. In fact people using Photoshop probably care even more about color accuracy than videophiles.

Yes and no. Photoshop takes a great deal of care in applying ICC profiles, but has nothing to do with the accuracy of the profiles themselves. It just uses the ICC tables. For instance, it doesn't try and improve on the accuracy of the A2B and B2A tables re-computing B2A lookup or computing profile pair specific gamut mappings in the manner than collink is capable of.

As for "3DLUTs are not just slow for fun", well, it might be that programs like ArgyllCMS's collink command are slow because there is no perceived need to make them fast: people use it offline and very infrequently, no one cares a great deal about how long it takes.

Oh boy - I think if I added it all up, I've spent years of my time working on the performance of elements that make up collink, from profile inversion to gamut mapping. There's no doubt that there are faster ways of doing less complex gamut mapping or lower accuracy profile inversion, and of course there are almost certainly speedups possible to my current code, but its not slow for want of caring nor effort.

I suspect it would be possible to do it much faster with little loss in quality if one were to specifically optimize for that. (Does anyone know how long LittleCMS takes to generate a transform?)

Go right ahead - optimize away!

Note that collink will link profiles in simple mode in comparably short times to lcms and Photoshop though.

[chros]

... I think if I added it all up, I've spent years of my time working ...
It seems to be a good time to express our gratitude for your work as well, so thank You!

[heiseikiseki]

Hello everyone , I found a very strange thing on MADVR with windows 10.
Today I update my windows 10 which is on the latest stable version (creators update) into the insider on slow ring which the version is 17115. (will be spring creator update release in this april)
Madvr works no problem, but the rendering time reduces a lot on my GTX1060!! I can not believe it ! 720p=>1440p on luma GPU sharp very high and chroma ngu aa medium only 6ms!!

https://imgur.com/a/1cgjc

I think it is at least two times faster on my GTX1060. How is this possible! is it a bug or the new windows 10 do some magic?