madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mclingo]

Your TV might have a 10.2gb HDMI max bandwidth, or your cables might not be good enough to pass through more than that. Make sure you select 23p when trying any chroma/bit depth combination, in order to make sure you don't cause a bandwidth issue (or at least you limit it).


I wonder if something is getting lost in translation here. I'm saying that I cant get 4:4:4 FULL RGB 60hz 10bit, pretty sure this is unsupported with HDMI 2.0ab/b, this will only be possible with HDMI 2.1

I havent tried dropping to 23/24 hz as I wouldnt operate my desktop at that.

[clsid]

UHD 4:4:4 60Hz 10bit requires HDMI 2.1
With HDMI 2.0 the maximum is 30 Hz for UHD 4:4:4 10bit.

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx#146

[Manni]

I wonder if something is getting lost in translation here. I'm saying that I cant get 4:4:4 FULL RGB 60hz 10bit, pretty sure this is unsupported with HDMI 2.0ab/b, this will only be possible with HDMI 2.1

I havent tried dropping to 23/24 hz as I wouldnt operate my desktop at that.

You didn't specify 60p in your post. That's beyond HDMI 2.0a. You need HDMI 2.1 for that. So why are you wondering why you can't get it, if you know that 4K60p 4:4:4 10bits is beyond your HDMI bandwidth?

[mclingo]

how are you managing this then, is your desktop set to 420 60hz and you have script or something to drop it into 444 fulll RGB before you play a movie, or do you have to change it manually every time?

[cyberscott]

Nothing about this?

One way to work around this is to manually change the refresh rate to 30 or 24 in the Nvidia control panel. Save it and then change the bit rate to 12. Save again. Then change back to your normal setting. When you launch an appropriate video, the nvidia driver should switch to 12 bit.

[Manni]

how are you managing this then, is your desktop set to 420 60hz and you have script or something to drop it into 444 fulll RGB before you play a movie, or do you have to change it manually every time?

With nVidia (using 385.28 if Windows 10), as explained many times, you select in the nVidia CP 4K23p (apply), then you select RGB Full 4:4:4 12bits (apply). That's it. Then if the content needs more than 18Gb/s bandwidth in 12bits (say you play 4K60p content), the driver switches automatically to 4K60p RGB Full 8bits 4:4:4, and back to 12bits when the playback is over. There is no need for a script. But it doesn't work the other way around. If you are in 4K60p when you select the bandwidth, then you CAN'T select 12bits, you're limited to 8bits, simply because it's not possible to select more than 8bits in 4K60p 4:4:4.

[mclingo]

With nVidia (using 385.28 if Windows 10), as explained many times, you select in the nVidia CP 4K23p (apply), then you select RGB Full 4:4:4 12bits (apply). That's it. Then if the content needs more than 18Gb/s bandwidth in 12bits (say you play 4K60p content), the driver switches automatically to 4K60p RGB Full 8bits 4:4:4, and back to 12bits when the playback is over. There is no need for a script. But it doesn't work the other way around. If you are in 4K60p when you select the bandwidth, then you CAN'T select 12bits, you're limited to 8bits, simply because it's not possible to select more than 8bits in 4K60p 4:4:4.


pretty sure that isnt going to work on an AMD card, will give it a go though, think i'll just get a black screen.

[Goeggel]

Sorry if my question has already been answered somewhere else, but I haven't found out yet whether my issue is expected behaviour or whether it is an issue at all.

My setup:
Windows 10 Enterprise 1709 64bit
Zoom Player 14
madVR v0.92.10
Nvidia GTX 980 385.69
Marantz SR6011 AV receiver (HDR ready)
Sony XD9305 TV (HDR ready) -> manually set into HDR mode (BT.2020)

When I play HDR content on the PC through the receiver to the TV (for example the Exodus UHD_HDR_24p.mp4 demo trailer), HDR seems to be fine. Colours seem fine to me at least.

However when checking the info screen with CTRL+J, it shows the source as being 10 bit, but output is "D3D11 exclusive 8 bit".

Shouldn't I be seeing "D3D11 exclusive 10 bit" as my whole chain in theory is 10 bit ready? Or is this because of the infamous Nvidia driver or Falls Creator issue?
Any way to get 10 bit output?

[huhn]

to send 10 bit to the GPU driver you have to set your display to 10 bit.

[petran79]

An issue with Madvr:

If I disable DX11 and set video to full screen, screen becomes black and cursor blinks. I have to kill the app. Problem is that if I restart the app, video acceleration is disabled, even if I enable DX11 again. CPU reaches 90% usage. Have to restart Windows.

[huhn]

could you provide more informations like.
GPU
GPU driver
windows version

[Razoola]

I know this is probably going to sound silly but could it be an idea that after madVR installs the bat file runs a seperate small exe to check what GFX card driver and OS version is installed. Then gives a message about known issues with that driver /setup combo?

[huhn]

and who is going to maintenance and create this list and most important verify it?

[petran79]

HP Laptop
Windows 10, ver 1709
Intel i7 6700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GTX 1060

Things is Madvr did not have tearing at all till now. Something with the latest update perhaps?

Unfortunately Gsync monitor is problematic. Some 2D games have issues running full screen (40 fp) or refuse to run at all

Because it supports only 40 and 75 hz. I have to use custom resolutions for 60hz but it doesnt solve the issue. Even with 60 hz there is tearing

[ryrynz]

That's what the forum is for, things get resolved eventually..

[Goeggel]

to send 10 bit to the GPU driver you have to set your display to 10 bit.
Thank you for your prompt answer!

Nvidia display driver is set to RGB / 12 bpc / full dynamic range
madVR is set to PC levels / 10 bit and HDR passthrough

What exactly do you mean by "set your display to 10 bit"?

[mclingo]

With nVidia (using 385.28 if Windows 10), as explained many times, you select in the nVidia CP 4K23p (apply), then you select RGB Full 4:4:4 12bits (apply). That's it. Then if the content needs more than 18Gb/s bandwidth in 12bits (say you play 4K60p content), the driver switches automatically to 4K60p RGB Full 8bits 4:4:4, and back to 12bits when the playback is over. There is no need for a script. But it doesn't work the other way around. If you are in 4K60p when you select the bandwidth, then you CAN'T select 12bits, you're limited to 8bits, simply because it's not possible to select more than 8bits in 4K60p 4:4:4.

ok, that does seem to work, however I thought I'd be able to preserve BTB now i'm using 444F-RGB but I then remembered my desktop would be crushed if I did which opens up an new set of problems. Seems to best option is to set FULL FULL FULL as suggested here.


http://kodi.wiki/view/Video_levels_and_color_space

What are you using?

[mclingo]

actually, i'm going to leave it on ybcr 420, my system is stable at the moment and I have a great picture with nothing to worry about, this introduces a new element if my system becomes problematic again . I'm going to wait to see if the FSE and black screen issues get fully fixed before I try a new setup but thanks for your advice, I wasnt expecting that to work to be honest, didnt think it switched colour spaces, only resolutions and hertz.

Cheers Manni / huhn

[huhn]

Thank you for your prompt answer!

Nvidia display driver is set to RGB / 12 bpc / full dynamic range
madVR is set to PC levels / 10 bit and HDR passthrough

What exactly do you mean by "set your display to 10 bit"?
i mena this:
https://abload.de/img/this76q43.png

@mclingo here is the madVR FAQ: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1271416&postcount=2

and about the black screen. this is a MAJOR issue and the reason i don't have a RX 480 anymore. contact the AMD support and make sue they fix this and yes i contacted them too i simply didn't accept a fundamental broken product for more than 6 months.

[mclingo]

i have both, i still cant my 1050 stable with 3D, sometimes it works, sometimes I get a black screen, sometimes it just plays in 2D, my AMD card work fine every time, only problem iissue it crashes my PC on stopping sometimes if I don drop to 1080p desktop first. I dont watch 3D that often so its a good enough workaround, all my 2D, 4K and 4K HDR plays fine now, no issues at all.

[petran79]

tearing problem solved for the time being.
Solution? Had to enter Nvidia Control panel Manage 3D applications and choose "Restore Defaults". Thing is I hadnt tampered with anything at all. Had to reinstall drivers because all of a sudden Nvidia Control Panel would not launch.

Windows 10 and Nvidia are even more screwed up than in the 90s....

[ashlar42]

With nVidia (using 385.28 if Windows 10), as explained many times, you select in the nVidia CP 4K23p (apply), then you select RGB Full 4:4:4 12bits (apply). That's it. Then if the content needs more than 18Gb/s bandwidth in 12bits (say you play 4K60p content), the driver switches automatically to 4K60p RGB Full 8bits 4:4:4, and back to 12bits when the playback is over. There is no need for a script. But it doesn't work the other way around. If you are in 4K60p when you select the bandwidth, then you CAN'T select 12bits, you're limited to 8bits, simply because it's not possible to select more than 8bits in 4K60p 4:4:4.Does this end up with your desktop running at 23.976Hz?

[nsnhd]

all my 2D, 4K and 4K HDR plays fine now, no issues at all.
What AMD card do you have, the RX550 ? Do you upscale 720/1080p to 4k with madVR ?

[Manni]

Does this end up with your desktop running at 23.976Hz?

Only if you select 23p by default. Once this is set, you can set it to 60p if you prefer, but it will be 8bits. It will then switch to 12bits if you launch 23p to 30p content.

I prefer to have my desktop at 23p so that I limit the number of HDMI syncs (15 secs with the JVC!) when I launch content, as 99% of my content is 23p. That way going from MyMovies to content and back is seamless and near instant.

If I was gaming more often or using the HTPC for other things, I would set it to 60p, but it's an almost 100% dedicated HTPC, so it's set to what works best for video playback, and that's 4K23p RGB Full 12bits 4:4:4.

[mclingo]

What AMD card do you have, the RX550 ? Do you upscale 720/1080p to 4k with madVR ?

Hi, RX550, it doesnt really have the power to do any high quality upscaling in MADVR so I just let me TV do it.

[HillieSan]

Why not? MadVR is typically used for upscaling. The RX 550 will do fine with Jinc, SuperRes and perhaps also with NGU medium.

The idea is that madvr performs upscaling better than your TV. This is the case for my TV and projector.

[el Filou]

Jinc should be fine but NGU could be tricky, huhn says the Polaris cards have problems with NGU.
OTOH, I also have doubts a TV would upscale better than Jinc.
@mclingo, have you tried comparing your TV's upscaling with madVR's Jinc?

[huhn]

the really important part is the Vram is it a 4 gb or not?
NGU low or med may wotj with 4 GB and it is not like you have to use NGU there are a lot of good alternatives in madVR.

in my personal experience it is not hard to beat a TV in scaling.
my panasonic TV is so bad at scaling that lanczos AR wins hands down. Tv scaler are usually totally over the top try hard scaler.

[mclingo]

Why not? MadVR is typically used for upscaling. The RX 550 will do fine with Jinc, SuperRes and perhaps also with NGU medium.

The idea is that madvr performs upscaling better than your TV. This is the case for my TV and projector.

i tried it a long while back on my RX 480 and it wasnt 100% smooth on higher settings, no point using lower settings as my TV will do just a good a job.

I guess its worth another look though.

what do you have your chroma and image upscaling set too?

The other issue is though what happens with 3D MVC stuff, that will only work in 1080p, I didnt try that last time.

[mclingo]

Jinc should be fine but NGU could be tricky, huhn says the Polaris cards have problems with NGU.
OTOH, I also have doubts a TV would upscale better than Jinc.
@mclingo, have you tried comparing your TV's upscaling with madVR's Jinc?


good call, glad I tested it again, seems their drivers have improved, I can set NG sharp medium on image and jinc on chroma and get smooth playback, 3D MVC still works as my TV wont process a 3DMVC signal higher than 1080p.

i'll have a tinker and see what I can push it to.

EDIT - sadly best I an do on 4k HDR material is lanczos on chroma upscale, anything more and i get minor gliching, to my eye is see no difference with my TV upscale with super-res on LOW at this level.

[mclingo]

the really important part is the Vram is it a 4 gb or not?
NGU low or med may wotj with 4 GB and it is not like you have to use NGU there are a lot of good alternatives in madVR.

in my personal experience it is not hard to beat a TV in scaling.
my panasonic TV is so bad at scaling that lanczos AR wins hands down. Tv scaler are usually totally over the top try hard scaler.

LG OLED 4k upscaling is actually pretty good, it also has a superes option which is also very good.

[HillieSan]

i tried it a long while back on my RX 480 and it wasnt 100% smooth on higher settings, no point using lower settings as my TV will do just a good a job.

I also had issues with my RX 480 in the beginning but after updates of madvr and LAV things became stable and faster. Now, I use the RX 480 with NGU Sharp High, RCA (4 medium) and RRN (2).

EDIT - sadly best I an do on 4k HDR material is lanczos on chroma upscale, anything more and i get minor gliching, to my eye is see no difference with my TV upscale with super-res on LOW at this level.

Compare all scalers for chroma and you will see that Lanczos is just right :-)

Tip: Put dithering on Ordered Dithering to lower the processing time.

[brazen1]

1st post. Been lurking quite a while and have learned so much here. Intend to help where I can and continue absorbing what is provided now that I've finally registered. Wanted to thank madshi for providing his creation we all digest and together help him refine. Special thanks also to nevcairiel visits and his Lav filter package as well as the MPC crew pulling all this together. Lastly to the posters, regulars and one-offs alike, who tirelessly endeavor to help others in a thankless task. I just want all of you to know your efforts are not taken lightly and this new member appreciates every single one of you. :thanks:

[janos666]

@madshi --- I am not sure if you are interested in this but just in case you ever consider implementing BFI for 24fps video on 120Hz display in madVR, this might saves you some annoying moments figuring out this trick I just discovered:

There are several kind of AviSynth scripts floating around on the web which introduce intolerable flicker. Here are the wrong examples:
AssumeFPS(60000,1000)
Interleave(last , BlankClip(last ))
AssumeFPS(120000,1000)
Original = last
Black=Original.Blankclip()
Interleave(Original,Black,Original,Black,Original)
Here is the problem with these: FBFBFFBFBFFBFBF (The flicker is similarly annoying if you end up with double black frames in the stream.) The same thing happens if I send 48 fps (repeated "Frame,Blank" sequence) to madVR.

And this is how I got it working "properly":
F = last
B = F.Blankclip()
Interleave(F,B,F,B,F,B,F,B,F,B)
SelectEvery(4, 0,1)

I think you can see the trick. The result is a "rotated" sub-sequence in the stream: FBFBFBFBFBFBFBF (you never get FF or BB which would cause visible flicker).

The last script looks fine on OLED TVs (it achives the same thing on the LG OLED what Panasonic does in firmware on their LG panel based OLED TVs). The flicker is comparable to that of most PDP displays (which have black intervals by nature).

[70MM]

Can someone please help me understand something. I have the 1080Ti card and have always upscaled all my BDs to 4K. Ive always had the card set to RGB but today I was looking at the madvr stats and see no RGB in them. What it states is h264, 8bit, 4:2:0 > NV12, 8bit 4:2:0, Im sure in the past it always stated RGB.

I have tried to change the card to 444 and 422 but the madvr states always show as h264, 8bit, 4:2:0 > NV12, 8bit 4:2:0 regardless of what I change the output color format to on the card. Output colour depth only ever displays 8bpc, is all this right or is something wrong here for me?

[Asmodian]

It did not say RGB anywhere in the past, that is all normal stats. That line in the OSD is only about the INPUT to madVR.

Your example: 8 bit 4:2:0 video encoded as h264 is decoded by LAV and given to madVR as 8 bit 4:2:0 video in the NV12 format.

The output of madVR is always RGB with the line that mentions the DirectX version telling you the bit depth, e.g. D3D11 windowed (8 bit).

[70MM]

Thank you Asmodian for explaining. Where I saw RGB in the stats in the past is when I had my old Lumagen Pro in the chain, I removed it after many here said the Pro degraded my madvr signal. So with the Pro out of the chain and upscalling all my BDs to 4K the stats of h264, 8bit, 4:2:0 > NV12, 8bit 4:2:0 is absolutly correct, correct?

I should leave the 1080Ti card set to the following correct?
Desktop color depth = Highest 32 bit
Output color format = RGB
Output color depth = 8bpc
Output dynamic range = Limited

[Asmodian]

All correct except Output dynamic range is ideally full range, unless your display is better when using limited range (sorry, I don't remember what you had determined after removing the Lumagen).

[huhn]

LG OLED 4k upscaling is actually pretty good, it also has a superes option which is also very good.

if you like that "result" fine by me. but if you think LG OLED have special processing compared to the normal TVs. well...
@70mm
you asked that before and the answer didn't change full range RGB is in theory superior.

[70MM]

Output dynamic range is ideally full range, unless your display is better when using limited range (sorry, I don't remember what you had determined after removing the Lumagen).
Everything is better without the Lumagen, Im happy! When I try full range the image is washed out. On limited Im getteing 16 / 235 correctly on my JVC 9900.

[Asmodian]

To use full range with the JVC 9900 change the "Input Signal" option "Input Level" to "Enhanced".

Or keep using limited range. :)

[SamuriHL]

Not to beat that dead horse to death, but, I thought we determined if you need to use limited it was better to have:

madvr: limited
gpu: full
tv: limited

......right?

[Asmodian]

True, but then the rest of Windows is the wrong range.

Having madVR set to full and the GPU set to limited allows everything to be the correct range but at the expense of the GPU drivers compressing madVR's output so you lose the quality dithering and don't have a 1:1 playback chain.

[SamuriHL]

Right. And in my case, I can do full:full:full EXCEPT when doing 3D. I get horrible ghosting when I have it set like that so I have to do limited:full:limited for everything to work. As for the rest of Windows, oh well in my case. LOL The PC is 99% for HTPC duty anyway. For others that may present a problem for sure.

[janos666]

LG OLED 4k upscaling is actually pretty good, it also has a superes option which is also very good.

Err... No! I don't like it one bit.
1080p120 input (which I might want to use for fast video games [where image quality is bad to begin with or much less relevant than aiming precision] and/or old movies with software BFI) looks terribly soft (almost like it's 720p) in the PC / ISF modes (PC mode is needed to achieve 4:4:4 chroma and low lag for games) and even though PC / Technicolor looks fine (and similarly flexible to calibrate for this 1080p120 mode which is unique in several ways, so needs it's own calibration settings) there is no way to achieve 2x2 "nearest neighbor" upscaling (which would be nice for games). I don't think it's hard to realize that running additional sharpening on a previously softened image can never be the same (neither in terms of "purity/honesty", nor "raw quality") as simply skipping both. And even if you are willing to make a little sacrifice, I couldn't really find any sharpness/enhancer/superres settings which look "right" to me. When these are presents, I always see the fuzzy/noisy artifacts and/or find the result way too "soft" still. So, I avoid feeding it with <2160p unless 120Hz seems to be important (for example, if I want to play a little bit CS:GO).

[el Filou]

The last script looks fine on OLED TVs (it achives the same thing on the LG OLED what Panasonic does in firmware on their LG panel based OLED TVs). The flicker is comparable to that of most PDP displays (which have black intervals by nature).I kinda doubt that, PDPs have black intervals during the display of a single frame itself, they don't display a whole frame instantaneously and then have a whole frame black interval, that would be horrible. :scared:

Do you really watch movies with that script? I thought BFI was only really useful for video games?
24 fps film is already a bit blurry by nature in action scenes, but content I think BFI could be useful with in madVR is 50/60 fps sport with a lot of quick unpredictable action, at which sample-and-hold panels aren't that good (not as bad as with video games, but still).
Do all Panasonic OLEDs have that feature? I need to see that by myself in a shop. :)

[nevcairiel]

I kinda doubt that, PDPs have black intervals during the display of a single frame itself, they don't display a whole frame instantaneously and then have a whole frame black interval, that would be horrible. :scared:

Indeed, BFI can only function properly if you have much shorter black intervals, not a 24 fps video and 24 fps black playing interleaved. The flicker would be horrendeous.

Also, of course you would want to avoid a double black frame to ever appear in succession, not sure why you would make a script where this would even be possible to happen in the first place, /me shrugs.

[AttackSharply]

Before I paste a wall of text with the details of what I'm using, I should ask is anyone having an issue with MadVR, a black screen, and a BSOD that says 'irql_not_less_or_equal' when trying to play content in exclusive fullscreen ?

[mclingo]

if you like that "result" fine by me. but if you think LG OLED have special processing compared to the normal TVs. well...
@70mm
you asked that before and the answer didn't change full range RGB is in theory superior.

it may well be better, I just cant tell to be honest so I'm going for the easier option which is 420 10 bit for everything.

[mclingo]

Before I paste a wall of text with the details of what I'm using, I should ask is anyone having an issue with MadVR, a black screen, and a BSOD that says 'irql_not_less_or_equal' when trying to play content in exclusive fullscreen ?

yeah, there has been quite a bit of this since the creators update for win10 users. HAs been mentioned quite a bit on here if you read back. I have a workaround for AMD cards and I think removing FSE works for NVIDIA cards.

AMD or NVIDIA?
WIN 10 creators?