madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[jkauff]

My totally ignorant opinion is that it should be possible, but it sounds like a separate utility rather than part of madVR. It would be as slow as playing the entire movie.

[Cowboydude99]

Great. I’ll pick up the colorimeter and Displaycal and get to work!

Once the calibration is done, do I need to do anything special in Madvr?

Edit:
I looked at Displaycal. It looks like it configures the computer’s color, not the PJ.

Am I missing something?

[hannes69]

Calibration has different components:
- you use test videos or patterns for setting manually contrast and brightness
- you use a calibration software (e.g. freeware HCFR) to make measurements of your projector´s colors and make use of the color calibration settings that offers your projector
- if your projector doesn´t offer sufficient calibration settings and/or for additional settings and perfection you use a calibration software (e.g. freeware DisplayCAL) that calibrates color on the source side.

It depends on your projector and your skills. If you have a projector which offers the necessary settings and you know what you are doing, then go this way and make use of the projector´s settings. If your projector has limited settings and/or you are unfamiliar with calibration and you do not have the time and pleasure for digging deeper into color calibration (well, it´s science ;) ), then go the road with software like DisplayCAL or similar approaches by other buyable software (DisplayCAL offers all you need and is 'better' than many commercial software products in some regards). This approach is more of the kind 'automation', the other approach with the projector´s knobs is more of the kind 'fiddling until you´re satisfied, until you reached the limits of your device or the limits of your nerves" ;)

I had the whole programme because I´m interested in this topic and for the sake of perfection. My projector has good colors out of the box, by using the projector´s settings I already had perfect grey balance and additionally with a 3DLUT on the computer´s side the gamut was improved (handling of out of gamut colors).

Depending on your display device (and its default settings), color calibration can change really a lot or nearly nothing.

Calibration can be very interesting - if it´s not a matter suitable to your personality it can mean opening Pandora´s box ;)

[lazostat]

Do i have to make different settings if sometimes i see movies on pc monitor and some other times i see on my TV? I watch only 1080p content. 720p only if there are some old animes.

[mclingo]

both custom res broken again for me today, going to buy back my old RX580 as a final test to ensure its defo this card thats causing the problems with timings, once i know for sure i'll decide whether i can live with them and get the better gaming/tone mapping performance or sell the RX5700 and prefer stability.

would have been nice to have some input from MADSHI on this but thats not going to happen sadly :)

[el Filou]

Is it possible to create a table of peak luminance of every frame before, instead of processing in real time, so less powerful video card could read it?That's exactly what the first "HDR test builds" were doing, there is a madMeasureHDR.exe that can analyse a video and create a .measurements file that is then used during playback (there's also a 3rd-party tool to further optimise those measurement files, but that's off-topic).
However the live HDR processing was optimized so well in recent builds that there isn't much difference anymore. I've compared build 113 with live measure with build 86 with measurement file and quality was better with the newer build and the performance difference was only a few ms, nothing that would make me want to go back.
You can google for "madVRhdrMeasure86.zip" if you want to try. The newer builds don't work correctly with measurement files anymore (you get a black screen) so you can't use them or directly compare with a recent build.

[huhn]

what do you expect him to say?

[mclingo]

something like this maybe....

Hi, Madshi here, sorry i've been away for so long, here is build v1.0 it fixes all current bugs logged and has support for all recent GPU's

:):):):):)

[failax]

You can google for "madVRhdrMeasure86.zip" if you want to try. The newer builds don't work correctly with measurement files anymore (you get a black screen) so you can't use them or directly compare with a recent build.

I have to try it because i have an Intel Nuc8I3Beh that can't do tone mapping in real time without losing frames.

[huhn]

realtime measuring it not the major performance penalty anyway.
so don't expect wonders from this.

@mclingo
why would you even think madVR is the reason for your issue.
or that the GPU isn't support. why would you even think he has to do anything to support a new gpu. if that would be the case the gaming world would need a lot of patches.

[mclingo]

ineed it most likely wont be MADVR but I bet everyone would love to see v1.0 with a few bug fixes at some point, one last hurrah !

[tp4tissue]

both custom res broken again for me today, going to buy back my old RX580 as a final test to ensure its defo this card thats causing the problems with timings, once i know for sure i'll decide whether i can live with them and get the better gaming/tone mapping performance or sell the RX5700 and prefer stability.

would have been nice to have some input from MADSHI on this but thats not going to happen sadly :)

Get a used 1070/1080 for best compatibility.

Coronavirus is making future prices uncertain for the new gen, but if you want it to work TODAY, stick with what we know works w/ least bugs and that's 10xx gen Nvidia

[tp4tissue]

I have to try it because i have an Intel Nuc8I3Beh that can't do tone mapping in real time without losing frames.

We recommend a 1070 or 1080gtx for madvr's tonemapping.

1060 will work as well, as long as you don't need some of the other quality of life features.

[nsnhd]

1060 will work as well, as long as you don't need some of the other quality of life features.

What are these features actually ? Not for 60 fps of course.

[Audionut]

You can google for "madVRhdrMeasure86.zip" if you want to try. The newer builds don't work correctly with measurement files anymore (you get a black screen) so you can't use them or directly compare with a recent build.

The latest version of madmeasurehdr works with the latest beta version of madVR here.

BTW, there's links in the OP for these tools.

1060 will work as well, as long as you don't need some of the other quality of life features.

Like what? 1060 - 3GB here.

1080p > 4K with NGU sharp high on luma and NGA sharp low x 2 on chroma.
Calibration with 3dlut.
Some upscaling refinement.

Just under 30ms on windows 10 with the latest updates to bring hardware accelerated GPU scheduling.

Realtime HDR on 4K (full 16:9) with NGU high on chroma and some upscaling refinement sits just under 40ms here. Need to compromise on HDR tone & gamut mapping accuracy at these settings, or drop to jinc upscaling without the compromise.

The latest updates have worked wonders here. Previously I couldn't get these settings (NGU on chroma), and especially the comprise on HDR, I always needed that active before (from memory).

edit: dropping the queues helps here to, I'm running 8,8,4,4,4.

[nsnhd]

Realtime HDR on 4K (full 16:9) with NGU high on chroma and some upscaling refinement sits just under 40ms here. Need to compromise on HDR tone & gamut mapping accuracy at these settings, or drop to jinc upscaling without the compromise.
Realtime HDR on 4K means that you play 4k sources on an 4k display, so:
Upscaling refinements dont work by 4k sources on 4k displays, only by upscaling, right ?
What's HDR tone & gamut mapping accuracy ?
Jinc upscaling doesn't work by 4k sources either ?

[mclingo]

Get a used 1070/1080 for best compatibility.

Coronavirus is making future prices uncertain for the new gen, but if you want it to work TODAY, stick with what we know works w/ least bugs and that's 10xx gen Nvidia


Hi, i'm stuck with AMD right now as I still have a 3D OLED and hopefully will do for a long time ahead as OLED 3D is sublime.

I think i've got it working properly on driver 20.2.2 but it could be fluke, need to see how this plays out for a few days, i'm getting 15 hours + for timing in both 2D and 3D

however, and this is something i've only just picked up on and its super odd. When I use my Arctis pro headphones for audio instead of HDMI audio through my speakers my timings drop back to 30 mins again, I could just plug my headphoens into my amp but I bough these because they were wireless and they've worked fine right up until recently when I changed my motherboard/cpu/ram.

starting to wish i'd remained with intel and not bought a ryzen system.

[Perza83]

madvr doesn't change to my optimized custom mode (Nvidia gpu)

Specs:
Win 10 fully updated, Geforce gtx1050ti, Sony x950g hdmi

So trying to get no repeated/dropped frames in madvr I optimized (did test and chose a good preset) a custom mode for a 23hz mode and madvr successfully created a custom display mode in nvidia panel under "Custom". Now the problem is even though the madvr changes frequency on a video start it doesn't change to that custom mode with custom timings but only to a 23hz mode so I stil get a repeated frame every 4.5 minutes. If I manually change to that custom mode from Nvidia control panel and then play the video I get proper no dropped/repeated frames playback. So is it possible for madvr to choose that custom mode instead of just changing the refresh rate? Or am I missing something? I don't want to manually switch between display modes everytime I watch a movie since I also use this computer for other things. Thank you for your help

Some pictures of my settings:
https://i.imgur.com/6ebjFe4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q5aEc7g.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wwMfDRQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zToxFPn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LXMgsL9.jpg

[chros]

You have to use CRU (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868998#post1868998).

[mrmojo666]

even someone said that is pointless what i was saying, timining on mt amd rx460 went crazy qhen i used a different audio output than video HDMI, @mclingo i think you should connect headphones to the avr.

[hannes69]

So trying to get no repeated/dropped frames in madvr I optimized (did test and chose a good preset) a custom mode for a 23hz mode and madvr successfully created a custom display mode in nvidia panel under "Custom". Now the problem is even though the madvr changes frequency on a video start it doesn't change to that custom mode with custom timings but only to a 23hz mode so I stil get a repeated frame every 4.5 minutes.
You can try the method chros linked to or alternatively you can try to use different multiples of the frame rates as refresh rate.
E.g. you can use 2*23.976 = 47.952Hz as refresh rate and you have to find out, if your display device accepts it.
Then you can use the whitelist in madVR (list all display modes...) and leave out 2160p23 and use 2160p47 instead. MadVR has a built-in logic and knows what to do.
If this doesn´t work go the CRU route (or if you prefer this way).

[Perza83]

You can try the method chros linked to or alternatively you can try to use different multiples of the frame rates as refresh rate.
E.g. you can use 2*23.976 = 47.952Hz as refresh rate and you have to find out, if your display device accepts it.
Then you can use the whitelist in madVR (list all display modes...) and leave out 2160p23 and use 2160p47 instead. MadVR has a built-in logic and knows what to do.
If this doesn´t work go the CRU route (or if you prefer this way).
Ok so I tried CRU and make (add) a custom detailed resolution with results madvr gave me but it won't acknowledge my input parameters...Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't cru supposed to replace the display mode already in the system? For example I would want to have a display mode of 3840x2160@23hz with madvr parameters (back porch etc.) which will replace the existing one. Sorry for not understanding this... Appreciate all the help.
Edit: I'm supposed to add an extension block to support greater values for front porch


https://imgur.com/a/pmPuMg2
https://imgur.com/a/dn1RaVC

[mparade]

I have calibrated my UHD SDR monitor using CalMan with colorspace sRGB and gamma formula ITU BT. 1886 settings (recommended by CalMan nowadays for darker rooms displaying content on an LCD). Within the "display is already calibrated" section, what is the recommended setting for such a calibration? BT.709 and power curve 2.4?

Thank you very much for the help in advance.

[Trendy]

Hi there
Is there any kind of benchmark for MadVR performances ?
I currently use a GTX 1080, which is fine, i may need extra processing power for noise reduction for example, but i'm not interested in a small (like 20%) gain.

[hannes69]

Ok so I tried CRU and make (add) a custom detailed resolution with results madvr gave me but it won't acknowledge my input parameters...Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't cru supposed to replace the display mode already in the system? For example I would want to have a display mode of 3840x2160@23hz with madvr parameters (back porch etc.) which will replace the existing one.
Edit: I'm supposed to add an extension block to support greater values for front porch
CRU is supposed to replace the existing display modes (realized by your display device´s EDID entries), yes.
Before going the CRU route, I would start with fresh settings, so remove all previous custom resolution attempts by e.g. madVR or within your GPU driver, so everything in this regard is at default.
Chros explained in his post everything needed.
You can use an extension block or if your front porch isn´t allowed you can subtract a certain number and add the same number to your back porch, don´t touch sync width and nake the total number stay always the same.

If your display accepts 23 Hz (23.976) and 50Hz or 60Hz, then there are good chances that it accepts 47Hz (47.952Hz = 2 * 23.976 Hz) as well, so you could try to implement that by madVR and use that (if your CRU approach fails).
There seem to be some problems with the 23 and 24 Hz modes. Sometimes they are confused, sometimes you can´t edit them or override them.
So it´s a 'cleaner' approach to use the otherwise unused 47.952Hz instead, this frequency won´t be overwritten/replaced/modified by GPU driver or OS because it´s no 'special value'.
The special values often used for video are 23.976/24.000/29.970/50.000/59.940 Hz. Most often 23.976Hz and 24.000Hz lead to problems.
If you play back movies with 23.976fps and 24.000 fps (e.g. often used in services like Amazon Prime), you have to establish both of them, but often they conflict. Then there is often no other way than use different multiples.
Many people don´t think of that possibility, but it´s a quite normal approach and using 2 * frame rate as refresh rate has absolutely no disadvantage compared to using refresh rate = frame rate.

[mclingo]

even someone said that is pointless what i was saying, timining on mt amd rx460 went crazy qhen i used a different audio output than video HDMI, @mclingo i think you should connect headphones to the avr.



I've got my headphones sorted as well now. I've setup MPC-HC specifically for headphone playback, if I turn off bitstreaming and use reclock as renderer I get perfect timings again. I then just use KODI-DS for main playback, i'll probably setup an identical KODI DS version for headphones at some point as I really only use MPC for testing stuff.

I dont like wires running across my floor and I like to walk over to the fridge with them on and grab another beer, just loads more convenient for me.

If I replace them at some point I may consider that though but i want to get my £300 worth out of them first, not even had them a year yet, apart from this minor issue they are fantastic.

[ryrynz]

Hi there
Is there any kind of benchmark for MadVR performance.

Monitor GPU utilization, clock speeds and render times and factor in noise. If you're not interested in 20% improvement then the only card you want is an RTX 2080 or 2080Ti and I believe for MadVR the 2080 is about a 20% increase anyway.

[tp4tissue]

Monitor GPU utilization, clock speeds and render times and factor in noise. If you're not interested in 20% improvement then the only card you want is an RTX 2080 or 2080Ti and I believe for MadVR the 2080 is about a 20% increase anyway.

All turing cards can have frame stutter issues depending on software/drivers. This is not ironed out yet, so 10xx is still the way to go for compatibility.

[ryrynz]

Didn't the minimal buffers sort that for some? Also, I didn't think it was a problem for everyone, there's a number of people here using those cards for madVR.

[huhn]

correct. i'm not aware of a user that couldn't fix it by lowering the present buffer.

[Asmodian]

I have noticed 2-3 frames presented in advance works well, 1 is not enough to avoid some glitches or drops on my system so I use 2, but 3 seems fine as well. 1 is still a better experiance than 8. I am not sure what the drivers are doing when presented that many frames in advance, simply dropping one sometimes for unknown reasons?

Turing is faster for madVR, compared to Pascal, so I would rather go with it. It is also possible madVR will get support for the new hardware at some point, based on the chips that went into Envy. I am not sure how likely that really is, but it is possible. It is annoying that you have to change the present setting to get a decent experiance (along with the Nvidia power profile), but if a simple setting change that has little or no downside solves it I consider is a minor issue. I have set present to 3 for a long time anyway, it makes Zoom Player's rendered-through-madVR UI more responsive. :)

[chros]

Hi there
Is there any kind of benchmark for MadVR performances ?
I currently use a GTX 1080, which is fine, i may need extra processing power for noise reduction for example, but i'm not interested in a small (like 20%) gain.

All turing cards can have frame stutter issues depending on software/drivers. This is not ironed out yet, so 10xx is still the way to go for compatibility.

Yep, just wait for the new gen GPUs with hdmi 2.1 then.

[huhn]

the question is if other programs use more then 3 and if there is any real benefit for it.

[mclingo]

out of interest, has there been any new workarounds for MVC 3D on NVIDIA cards or are you still having to remain on an older driver if you want 3D?

[huhn]

nothing changed.

madshi is now aware of the hack that makes it work for games again but that doesn't change that it will not work for madVR.

[tp4tissue]

correct. i'm not aware of a user that couldn't fix it by lowering the present buffer.

Not in all cases, For example My desktop turing card works fine for 23hz and 60hz pull down, but then for whatever reason my laptop turing version will drop frames at 23hz erratically even lowering the buffer

[lazostat]

What's the best settings for madVr if you have a good gpu? I have 2070 super.

[huhn]

you are to supposed to get dropped frames when this bug triggers so are you sure you are comparing apples with apples?

[ryrynz]

Speaking of Turing, does a 1660 Ti best a standard 1070 in MadVR?

[tp4tissue]

you are to supposed to get dropped frames when this bug triggers so are you sure you are comparing apples with apples?

Yes they're the same cards 1660ti desktop vs laptop. I've done all the tricks in the book <that we know of>

Turing bugs are not fixable by the reducing frame buffer in all cases.

The dropped frames I'm talking about is not 1 or 2, it full on stutters.

My point is, 10xx series is far more compatible at this point in time, there's NO REASON to buy turing for Madvr.

[huhn]

ok let's try again.

the presentation bug is unknown to madVR so it's not dropping frames it thinks everything is working fine. which makes it a very serious bug.
do you have this bug or is it something different?
if no make a screen of the OSD.

[brazen1]

Are you guys changing how many frames in advance using the 'GPU queue size:' setting or the 'how many video frames shall be presented in advance:' setting? Trying to free up some resources to use RCA with my little GTX 960 HDR/passthrough.

Also, using 'reduce compression artifacts' (only if comes for free as part of NGU sharp) isn't coming free for me. It taxes the GPU. I have luma and chroma at NGU Sharp/med. I can't run them at high if that's the answer. 1080p works but not 2160p.

[huhn]

queues are not supposed to cost performance just Vram and as long as there is enough Vram this is free.

if you think RCA is ot free as it should be please make a a screen of the OSD with it and without it.

[toki]

This is a question about the last beta build. When you use the last beta, it pushes RGB, and possibly other things wrong. If I calibrate with the last beta installed in madVR, would it be messed up settings, or not calibrate properly?

[huhn]

what do you mean with "it pushes RGB"?

[brazen1]

queues are not supposed to cost performance just Vram and as long as there is enough Vram this is free.

if you think RCA is ot free as it should be please make a a screen of the OSD with it and without it.

I think I figured out my mistake. RCA and Denoising are not the same thing... correct?

There is no keyboard shortcut for RCA... correct?

Thanks for the help.

[huhn]

they are not the same.
and sorry no clue about hotkeys.

[SirMaster]

All turing cards can have frame stutter issues depending on software/drivers. This is not ironed out yet, so 10xx is still the way to go for compatibility.

All the Turing HTPC's i've helped set up were solved by simply enabling vsync in the GPU drivers for either the media player or just globally.

[huhn]

ohh yes correctly that was important. if not the only thing that counts with new drivers.

[lazostat]

If I want to enable virtual 7.1 sound on my headphones, should I change the sound settings on wmpc + windows or not ?