madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Telion]

I notice that in the new version of MadVR upscaling 1280x720 resolution videos to 1920x1080 is much more demanding than in the 0.90 versions. Previously I had both luma and chroma at NNEDI13 set to 256.
I use an image of an older version had all set to 256 (only if scaling factor is 2x or bigger) and there were no dropped frames, though GPU usage was relatively high but never reaching 90+ %.

I am confused which options in 0.91.5 equal setting all image doubling options in 256 (with scale 2x) in previous madvr version. As if this version wastes GPU resources in order to upscale semi-HD videos.
There are no such direct options anymore, they were considered too confusing for regular users. Now the scale factor is hardcoded to 1.2x for all doubling algos except NGU, which is always activated if any upscale should be done. And the quadrupling is always on if image doubling is selected. To achieve the same results as before you just need to define profiles with corresponding ruleset depending on source resolution.

[TheShadowRunner]

Have you tried a different media player, just as a test?
Yes, the same happens in graphstudionext.
After much testing I was able to find the breaking point:
build 0.90.4.0.
Any build prior to that works OK, any build after (and including) 0.90.4.0 triggers the freeze when seeking during DVD playback.
Hope it helps pinpoint what change broke it.

Edit: after checking the changelog, my bet would be on either of these 2 changes to be the culprit..
* fixed: OSD stopped working when no new frames came from decoder
* last video frame is now remembered for 2 seconds when stopping graph

[petran79]

@pose, Telion, thanks for clarification, I'll try NGU instead

[StinDaWg]

madshi, I am still getting constant black screen lockups when existing/closing a video, that require a reboot of the computer. I have tried every combination I can think of. D3D9, D3D11, FSE and windowed, DontRenderAfterStop folder with and without. It seems to make no difference. It happens at least a dozen times a week with no consistency of reason. Someone else replied a few months ago and had the same problem. Something about madvr not giving away control to Windows in fullscreen, thus locking up your pc to a black screen after closing a video at random times.

I am going to try MPC-BE instead of MPC-HC but I doubt that will make a difference. Is there anything else I can do? It's really frustrating.

[jmonier784@gmail.com]

I've just noticed that in windowed mode "present several frames in advance" is ignored (OSD shows backbuffers) when "enable windowed overlay" is checked. This is with Nvidia cards. It seems to happen no matter what with an AMD card but I haven't tested that extensively. Is this intentional or is it a bug?

[tranfa]

in the display mode you type in the display mode your TV/GPU support not the type of file you have.

try
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 1080p50, 1080p59, 1080p60

Thank you huhn, this was actually what I tried to do.
While 4k up to 30hz is supported by my TV/video card/drivers, with the notation you suggested the videos at 25 are displayed at 1080p50, those at 30 at 1080p60...and finally those at 24 at 4k 24.

[jkauff]

@madshi: I've watched a lot more SD movies using the test build, and I've found that NGUpixart High is the sweet spot for my setup. It's as good as NNEDI3 on all but the poorest quality sources. NGU Very High is too much, though, and gives me that "processed" look I mentioned before. In all cases, I'm superscaling, then downscaling to 1920x1080. This is using a GTX1060.

For the poor sources, though, NNEDI3 does a better job. Maybe a few more tweaks are in order, but I'm almost ready to kiss NNEDI3 goodbye.

[Georgel]

Hello! I've been using madVR for a long time, though I never posted in this forum. I've taken a few comparison shots comparing NGU/NGU pixart/NNEDI3, since I actually had a look at this thread after noticing that NGU really wasn't doing too well with a certain 720x480 anime source compared to NNEDI3, upscaled to 3840x2160.

I've cropped a part of the full upscaled image, since the full-size images are 15-16MB each. NGU/NNEDI were always used for 4x upscaling and I used Jinc AR to go from that to full 3840x2160.
Original:
http://abload.de/thumb/original8pql3.png (http://abload.de/img/original8pql3.png)

Chroma NGU vhigh / NGU vhigh & vhigh:
http://abload.de/thumb/ngu-vhigh_ngu-vhigh_vd5rz3.png (http://abload.de/img/ngu-vhigh_ngu-vhigh_vd5rz3.png)

Chroma NGU vhigh / NGU vhigh & normal (4x)
http://abload.de/thumb/ngu-vhigh_ngu-vhigh-4wqpqm.png (http://abload.de/img/ngu-vhigh_ngu-vhigh-4wqpqm.png)

Chroma NNEDI3 128 / NNEDI3 128+32 & vhigh
http://abload.de/thumb/nnedi128_nnedi128-32_cqo6g.png (http://abload.de/img/nnedi128_nnedi128-32_cqo6g.png)

Chroma NGU pixart vhigh / NGU pixart vhigh & vhigh
http://abload.de/thumb/ngu-pixart-vhigh_ngu-y5qkq.png (http://abload.de/img/ngu-pixart-vhigh_ngu-y5qkq.png)

As for my opinion, regular NGU is too "smudgy" for this source, this is clearly and immediately visible even while watching, not just staring at screenshots. NGU 4x is actually a bit better in this regard than applying NGU 2x twice. I think for this image NNEDI3 is much better, the configuration I use in practice is NNEDI3 + SuperRes 1 (this screenshot is without SuperRes, just NNEDI3), which is a nice compromise for me. As for NGU pixart, I like it very much! :D The "smudgy" lines from regular NGU are completely gone and I'd go as far as saying that I prefer it over NNEDI3 in terms of the image output, the outlines of the hand/figers are a bit more pleasant to me. NGU pixart is also faster than the NNEDI3 configuration I used, so as far as I'm concerned, it's a very nice scaler. I can't wait to get it as a regular option in a newer madVR version, since I do still want to use classic NGU for 1080p/720p upscaling.

Not sure if the original image is considered to be bad quality, I can't see any terrible aliasing (there's some on the branch outline) and there really isn't much I can notice in terms of compression artifacts either. In any case I've seen a lot worse.

Anyway, thanks for all the work on madVR madshi!



God bless making it easy to recognize which algo was used in which example by naming the file.

Also, from the example, I think that pixart is going a great job and so is NNEDI 128. I personally don't see enough of a difference between them to say which is better. NNEDI looks ever ever so slightly more detailed at the price of more aliasing / ringing.

[Bloodred]

Yeah, good thing abload.de doesn't completely replace the file name. The differences between NNEDI and NGU pixart are very small to me, I slightly prefer pixart (and it's faster too), but I'd be happy with either. I can't actually tell the difference in practice - as in while actually watching something and not paying attention to minor image differences.

[MS-DOS]

I am still getting constant black screen lockups when existing/closing a video, that require a reboot of the computer. I have tried every combination I can think of. D3D9, D3D11, FSE and windowed, DontRenderAfterStop folder with and without. It seems to make no difference. It happens at least a dozen times a week with no consistency of reason. Someone else replied a few months ago and had the same problem. Something about madvr not giving away control to Windows in fullscreen, thus locking up your pc to a black screen after closing a video at random times.


I had this issue a few times on my previous HD5870 when exiting while playing at fullscreen, MPC-HC was set to exit after playback. That's why I stopped using that option. What's you OS and graphics card?

[Damien147]

Thank you huhn, this was actually what I tried to do.
While 4k up to 30hz is supported by my TV/video card/drivers, with the notation you suggested the videos at 25 are displayed at 1080p50, those at 30 at 1080p60...and finally those at 24 at 4k 24.

This?

4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29, 4096x2160p30

[Ceremony]

I have a strange new issue since I installed the most recent windows updates (win10 x64):
Whenever I switch to fullscreen mode (be it exclusive or not), the player suddenly freezes and starts consuming loads and loads of memory (RAM, not VRAM), till either the OS freezes up due to OOM.

I am running Win10 Pro x64 with 8GB of RAM (2GB of it as dedicated VRAM) with the latest madVR version and driver for the AMD A10-7850K APU.

I tried MPCBE and Kodi - both of which suffer the same issues, just that it the issue also occurs in window mode for kodi as well.

Any clue as to what I can do about it?

[StinDaWg]

I had this issue a few times on my previous HD5870 when exiting while playing at fullscreen, MPC-HC was set to exit after playback. That's why I stopped using that option. What's you OS and graphics card?
Windows 10 and HD7770.

I don't use that option in MPC-HC, I just hit the close button on my media center remote which does the same thing I guess.

[tranfa]

This?

4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29, 4096x2160p30


Yep, my initial option.

It sends 24fps to 4096x2160 at 24hz, and everything else at 30hx (including 25fps, which results in stuttering). As if the 4096x2160p25 wasn't taken into consideration.

[MS-DOS]

Can I replace super-xbr (for luma doubling, only) with NGU pixart in the next official build?

I'm against it. SXBR + SR3 still looks better than any NGU for me overall (more universal source wise) *and* is faster than anything above "Low". Unless AMD fix their crap with RX480 and you introduce some kind of an image filter\cleaner (the issue with bad sources and NGU) I don't see it replacing Super-XBR for me personally.

[age]

Is it possibile to add bilinear scaling done by shaders ?not the same by gpu texture unit,this last one should work with 8 bit precision only

[Asmodian]

I've just noticed that in windowed mode "present several frames in advance" is ignored (OSD shows backbuffers) when "enable windowed overlay" is checked. This is with Nvidia cards. It seems to happen no matter what with an AMD card but I haven't tested that extensively. Is this intentional or is it a bug?

This is intentional, overlay is a very low level method which bypasses the OS and GPU drivers to a large degree. It can only use backbuffers and screen shot are not possible. It is only supported by Nvidia and Intel GPUs.

[kitame]

speaking of pixart, when is the next official update for madVR? since it seems like pixart is already ready to go.

[ryrynz]

Maybe if enough users send me good images I can improve the algo a bit more, I'm not sure.


You might need another variation of NGU to deal with this sort of content, I think slight alterations might not be enough as NGU and NGU pix look similar to me, and I can't imagine tweaks will be enough..
Here's (http://i.imgur.com/kBHrpW7.png) an image I'll put forward for your NGU pix variant, easy enough for me to find more which work well with NNEDI3 if you want anything.

[Damien147]

Yep, my initial option.

It sends 24fps to 4096x2160 at 24hz, and everything else at 30hx (including 25fps, which results in stuttering). As if the 4096x2160p25 wasn't taken into consideration.

My tv(ku6000) supports only 1080i for film mode in HDMI but like this it bypasses it and works for me. (GPU:RX470)

[kitame]

i just tried different combinations of scalers.
then remembered that ReconSharp is superior in chroma scaler, so i compared it to NGU low.

https://i.imgbox.com/iRJPieIM.png

i guess ReconSharp is still superior.


also, can we have this part of the image scaler be manually defined like this?
and what would the result be if we mixed up different scaling algorithms in luma/chroma image scaling?

https://i.imgbox.com/Nn97SMKs.png

[tranfa]

My tv(ku6000) supports only 1080i for film mode in HDMI but like this it bypasses it and works for me. (GPU:RX470)

So, 24fps at 24hz, 25fps at 25hz, and 30fps at 30hz?

[Damien147]

So, 24fps at 24hz, 25fps at 25hz, and 30fps at 30hz?



Yes.Works with everything I've tried,without losing resolution.

[huhn]

are you sure the 25 content isn't interlanced?

i don't know for sure but AFAIK there is no 25p spec only 25i so it is deinterlanced to 50.

@Damien147
don't waste your TV with display mode on this TV
it can't do 23/24p properly like nearly all 2016 smasung UHD screens.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300

@kitame
you are ignoring the way bigger chroma bleed of recon sharp at the "shoulder".

[tranfa]

are you sure the 25 content isn't interlanced?

i don't know for sure but AFAIK there is no 25p spec only 25i so it is deinterlanced to 50.

@Damien147
don't waste your TV with display mode on this TV
it can't do 23/24p properly like nearly all 2016 smasung UHD screens.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300

@kitame
you are ignoring the way bigger chroma bleed of recon sharp at the "shoulder".

I'd love it...! :)

But the issue is that, with just "4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29, 4096x2160p30" in display modes, 25 goes to 30hz....and not 50...

[kitame]

@kitame
you are ignoring the way bigger chroma bleed of recon sharp at the "shoulder".

what bleed? if its the "missing" white outline, thats actually an image sharpening ringing artifact.
if i turn off my image sharpening enhancement the white outline vanishes, in exchange for a blurry edge line.
in fact, ReconSharp seems to "fix" this ringing artifact via masking.
anti-ringing filter simply doesn't work well with image sharpening. :(

however, ReconSharp does have one issue, there are occasions where theres an odd glitch/artifact.

https://i.imgbox.com/HyAqIFUa.png

[Damien147]

@Damien147
don't waste your TV with display mode on this TV
it can't do 23/24p properly like nearly all 2016 smasung UHD screens.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300


Here's a screenshot http://imgur.com/a/gpakS .Or you mean something else?

I'd love it...! :)

But the issue is that, with just "4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29, 4096x2160p30" in display modes, 25 goes to 30hz....and not 50...

Go to display adapter properties and check.I am like this http://imgur.com/a/xylW7
I don't have 50 fps material to try 4096x2160p50.Can you suggest me a sample?

[tranfa]

Damien, forget 50fps material: it's not the issue, I was just answering to huhn's hypothesis.

What I'm saying is that, if I include 4096x2160p29 and/or 4096x2160p30 in the Display Modes string in MadVR, any simple 25fps material goes to 30hz, instead of remaining at 25hz.
if any reference to 4096x2160p29 or 4096x2160p30 is missing there, 25fps goes at 25hz.

Which doesn't seem a normal behavior, and not corresponding to your experience if I'm not mistaken.

PS: in the display adapter settings I have 24, 25, 29 and 30hz.

[Damien147]

Something similar was happening to me yesterday with 24p(it was ignoring it and stayed in 59hz) if I was adding 4096x2160p23 but I can't reproduce it now.

[huhn]

I'd love it...! :)

But the issue is that, with just "4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29, 4096x2160p30" in display modes, 25 goes to 30hz....and not 50...

i'm not 100 % sure but i guess madVR uses the highest possible refreshrate if the refreshrate is higher than everything that could be send to the display.

so maybe make a screen of the OSD helps.
@Damien147
the madVR OSD has nothing to do with this.
the TV can't handle the signal correctly. a 24p signal is change to 60 in this TV because it can display at a multiply of 24 like 120 hz.

same for 4096X2160. the TV can't display that. TVs have a resulotion of 3840x2160. you are able to send 4096X2160 and 23/24p that doesn't mean it can handle it correctly or display it correctly it is missing the pixel and the refreshrate multiplier.

@kitame
the red dots...

[Damien147]

@Damien147
the madVR OSD has nothing to do with this.
the TV can't handle the signal correctly. a 24p signal is change to 60 in this TV because it can display at a multiply of 24 like 120 hz.

same for 4096X2160. the TV can't display that. TVs have a resulotion of 3840x2160. you are able to send 4096X2160 and 23/24p that doesn't mean it can handle it correctly or display it correctly it is missing the pixel and the refreshrate multiplier.


I don't get why windows displays 24hz+ in adapter properties and 4096x2160 resolution then :confused:

[kitame]

@kitame
the red dots...

red dots...? you sure they're "chroma bleed"?

[tranfa]

i'm not 100 % sure but i guess madVR uses the highest possible refreshrate if the refreshrate is higher than everything that could be send to the display.

so maybe make a screen of the OSD helps.


Yes, exactly: I'm curious in understanding the logic behind.

Will post a screen as soon as I can.

Thank you!

[huhn]

I don't get why windows displays 24hz+ in adapter properties and 4096x2160 resolution then :confused:

because that's what the GPU driver is sending the display.

red dots...? you sure they're "chroma bleed"?

there a 2 red dots on the brown "line" that bleed in from the red arm.

[kitame]

there a 2 red dots on the brown "line" that bleed in from the red arm.

both sides has this issue, actually NGU looks mellower because the entire gold trimmings is tinted red.
the protruding red dots on ReconSharp is due to ReconSharp being... Sharp, if i switch to ReconSoft it looks just like NGU with the entire gold trimmings tinted red.

shes actually wearing a gold trimmed white suit.

http://ru.myanimeshelf.com//upload/dynamic/2015-09/11/HVw66K0i_inettools.net_crop_image2.png

[Damien147]

because that's what the GPU driver is sending the display.


It's supposed that windows shows what's only supported for the display.

http://imgur.com/a/AzCMC

[huhn]

last commend about this.

the resolution of this and nearly any other UHD TV is 3840X2160.

because you can send something doesn't mean it can be displayed correctly and yes the TV supports this type of signal as an input and again it can't handle it correctly.

using 60 HZ and madVR smoothmotion is the better alternative in term of correct playback.

if you send 4096X2160 it is cropping the side of scaling the image down or changing the AR.

if you send 23/24p it has to create a 3/2 judder by displaying it at 60 HZ. this screens doesn't support an internal refreshrate of 48 96 72 120 or what ever that allows correct 24p playback. which means it can't display it correctly.

[baii]

I have the same/close to same tv ku6290 and windows even recommend 4096 by default, but that doesnt mean it is the best setting. ( I was wondering why am I getting crop image at first)

The electronic hardware(which communicate what signal it can take) in the TV have nothing to do with the capabilities of the panel it seems.

[Damien147]

last commend about this.

the resolution of this and nearly any other UHD TV is 3840X2160.

because you can send something doesn't mean it can be displayed correctly and yes the TV supports this type of signal as an input and again it can't handle it correctly.

using 60 HZ and madVR smoothmotion is the better alternative in term of correct playback.

if you send 4096X2160 it is cropping the side of scaling the image down or changing the AR.

if you send 23/24p it has to create a 3/2 judder by displaying it at 60 HZ. this screens doesn't support an internal refreshrate of 48 96 72 120 or what ever that allows correct 24p playback. which means it can't display it correctly.

I was with smooth motion and in 60hz.No cropping here and sorry but what is ''changing the AR''(?)
I just played with MadVR display modes and got these results.
Facts state that everything is working but somehow as you say it's not correct.

http://imgur.com/a/9qd9Z

http://imgur.com/a/xylW7

http://imgur.com/a/gpakS

http://imgur.com/a/AzCMC


I have the same/close to same tv ku6290 and windows even recommend 4096 by default, but that doesnt mean it is the best setting. ( I was wondering why am I getting crop image at first)

The electronic hardware(which communicate what signal it can take) in the TV have nothing to do with the capabilities of the panel it seems.

You got cropped image because by default fit to screen was off.I had the same thing happening to me.
In your TV go to: settings-->picture-->picture size and put screen fit to on.Now return to 4096x2160 and see for yourself.There is no cropping.

[pirlouy]

You don't get it with your screenshots.
The problem is not what you send, but what the TV does AFTER you send signal. That's what huhn is trying to say.

From rtings review, 24Hz is not judder-free for your TV. But maybe its motion interpolation is able to give a good result.

[Damien147]

The last two pictures state the final result and what the tv receives supposedly.:confused:
I don't have rtings highly in my opinion but I think I agree with the judder.

[tranfa]

Yes, exactly: I'm curious in understanding the logic behind.

Will post a screen as soon as I can.

Thank you!

25hz (when I have in Display modes only 4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25):

http://imgur.com/chhrkp7

http://i.imgur.com/chhrkp7.jpg

[tranfa]

30hz (when in Display Modes I add 4096x2160p30 to the previous):

http://i.imgur.com/T0S6bff.jpg

[Damien147]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p85xwZ_OLX0:p

4096x2160p29 and not 4096x2160p30?The same?
It can be done as it says.I guess you have to play with display mode settings.Something similar happened to me yesterday and I'm trying to reproduce it again.

[tranfa]

Well, here at least it's stable...

PS: situation unchanged with p29 and/or p30.

[Damien147]

Found it,if I put:

4096x2160p23, 4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29, 4096x2160p30

24p fails and goes to 60hz

If I put:

4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29, 4096x2160p30

everything's fine.

[huhn]

30hz (when in Display Modes I add 4096x2160p30 to the previous):

http://i.imgur.com/T0S6bff.jpg


doesn't make sense to me.
it doesn't even use p30 in the screen it is 29p...

and please use links/url to add images. this is my personal recommendation nothing else.

[tranfa]

doesn't make sense to me.
it doesn't even use p30 in the screen it is 29p...

and please use links/url to add images. this is my personal recommendation nothing else.

Still this is the case, both with p30 and p29 in the Display Modes... and it is what puzzles me.

Ok for the url, I'll make sure of using this next time.

[clsid]

Just use 24/50/59

[Damien147]

Well, here at least it's stable...

PS: situation unchanged with p29 and/or p30.

Guess what...!!The same thing happened to me with a series that I have.30p with 25fps.Same settings as I stated earlier.But every other 25 fps material I have plays in 25hz.So to conclude for now there's something in the source that triggers it.Can I stupidly ask if you tried another 25fps fps movie or whatever(?)

@clsid gave a nice idea for the end of the day.