madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[nussman]

Please open a grayscale and switch between Normal and Low. The darker one is 0-255.
Using RGB it is easy to double the effect (not recommended) - set GPU to RGB "full" and TV to "HDMI Black Level - Low" resulting in "blacker then black" and "whiter than white".

The darker one should be 16-235 ...

[Betroz]

I'm guessing you have the UB820 set to YCbCr Auto, yes? That COULD be part of the difference. Maybe.

Under HDMI settings menu :
- 4K(50p/60p) 4:4:4
- Colour Mode : YcbCR (Automatic)

[blaubart]

Because a dedicated player uses YCbCr and a PC uses RGB. YCbCr does not use 0-255. It uses 16-235. This is why smart displays have an 'auto' setting. To detect the input and adjust the output. This 'auto' adjustment defaults to 16-235 on my panel. I think panels are programmed around dedicated players. So are 'devices'. This introduces the havoc we PC users face.

Obviously my 'device' does not have this feature which would be the solution. At the moment no money here to buy an other. Hoping for madshi to realize the "16-235 only playing HDR" Button or so..

[Betroz]

To deal with that issue on your PC, you could set madvr to 16-235 (limited), the GPU to RGB FULL, and the TV to auto. It SHOULD show correctly in that configuration.

I have to rename HDMI 1 to "PC" in my TV port settings, then Black Level can be set to Auto. But in PC mode, I can't enable TruMotion at all, and I need that. So I have to have "HDMI 1" set for that port - and then the Black Level option is only Low or High...

Edit : typos and stuff

[zapatista]

HI Madshi,

i just replaced my old ati 5770 with a gtx 1060 (3gb) , but i have major dropped frames in madvr when playing video since i installed this card (about 10/sec). this is even with default madvr settings, and using mpc-hc (64 bit).
pc = i7-4770k cpu, 32 gb ram, ssd 500 gb, and new 1060 3gb gfx card on a win7 64 bit system

other video players work fine, eg cyberlink powerdvd, vlc, mplayer without madvr is also ok, etc
i have tried several gfx drivers (latest whql, version on the install dvd, best recommended by other users for similar video card etc..), all no solution. also checked for mb driver & bios updates etc (all are up to date). gfx card has no alternative bios release to try.
i did search for other users w madvr reporting similar problems but the main suggestions (from yourself earlier in this thread for ex) was to turn flux off and not use gpu-z, didnt seem to help in my case

https://ibb.co/eQ0VZU
https://ibb.co/eQ0VZU

when i first installed the new 1060 gfx card i thought it was working correctly, even was able to play some 4k HEVC files smoothly(downscaled to my 1080 tv over hdmi) and was really impressed with the quality of the video image (as i was expecting from madvr from my old ati card use in previous yrs), but then further testing with 1080p and 720p files (mp4 and HEVC) over the following days all started to have similar severe dropped frames (tried lots of settings in madvr options, but now even default settings with all enhancements off now cause dropped frames 10/sec approx)

i have reset madvr to defaults, uninstalled and reinstalled mpc-ht etc, sadly no solution found so far. cpu usage stays low @ 30% approx, and gpu load is also low @ approx 30% with only 900 mb of the 3 gb vram used (as reported by gpu-z)

any idea what i should look at ?

[huhn]

your presentation times are terrible try windows 7 overlay.

[blaubart]

I have to rename HDMI 1 to "PC" in my TV port settings, then Black Level can be set to Auto.

Here renaming HDMI 1 to "PC" results in completely different (2 instead of 4) Picture modes, Black Level is grayed out and set to Auto. But unfortunately madVR playing HDR still black-ish.

[huhn]

a profile should be able to fix this for you.

[famasfilms]

Has something changed recently with Windows 10 updates/New nvidia drivers?

None of my HDR movies triggering "HDR on" with my LG OLED

[SamuriHL]

Yes, either roll back to 399 or use FSE with HDR content.

[SamuriHL]

Under HDMI settings menu :
- 4K(50p/60p) 4:4:4
- Colour Mode : YcbCR (Automatic)

Yes, and that's the difference between your PC and the UB820.

I have to rename HDMI 1 to "PC" in my TV port settings, then Black Level can be set to Auto. But in PC mode, I can't enable TruMotion at all, and I need that. So I have to have "HDMI 1" set for that port - and then the Black Level option is only Low or High...

Edit : typos and stuff

I use PC mode on my C8 for all my devices. I don't want all that processing enabled. I can understand wanting/needing it so in that case you will have to configure it for the device you're using. Lots of fun!

[blaubart]

a profile should be able to fix this for you.

Thank you I will do one day, my concern was to report, HDR is only tested here from time to time so no doomsday at all.

madVR no more able to switch HDR since W10 1809, madVR switching HDR off mostly results in a bit crashed Desktop, panned, resized windows, also reported here some times... I'm quite sure this all will be history soon? Hopefully madshi got finally his sponsored OLED panel he was expecting in Aug.2016..?

[huhn]

1809 is pulled is well known to be broken and has yet another WDDM version so expect a lot of driver problems.

[el Filou]

Unfortunately TV manufacturers give their HDMI levels randomly changing phantasy names. The one that sounds somehow lower, weaker is mostly 0-255.On most TVs I've seen, the setting's results are consistent with its name and values, the 'issue' is that some TVs call the setting "range" in which case the bigger sounding one is 0-255, when other TVs call the setting "black level" in which case 0-255 is the lower sounding one. You just have to RTFM really. ;)

[blaubart]

Googl for rtfm, ok reading the f.. manual - nothing concrete. Reading a Prad technican who said it is not as easy as switching 0-255 / 16-235 but the TV is "trying" to higher-lower some curves in that direction with changing success. Which does not mean that some levels/colors are completely "terminated" its more like smooth waves.. I think thats the reason why TV manuals never tell us hard numbers but somewhat deeeeper, wiiiider (https://www.samsung.com/ph/support/tv-audio-video/what-is-the-hdmi-black-level-setting/) :) In the end it lies in the eye of the each person.

Thinking about the "black-ish" HDR thing I remembered that madshi told me once (Aug.2016 in an other language) he would not recommend YCbCr but at this time he had no UHD panel. But to have a chance for 10-Bit video you need YCbCr422 at 10 or 12 bpc (bit per channel). As I could read the "RGB hardliners" hate that, running in squares through the room tearing their hair out, trying 444 10-bit through HDMI2 whatever..

So maybe madshi just did not test much in YCbCr (hoping he finally got some HDR TV). Win10 set to HDR with GPU output "RGB full" shows here pale greenish colors on the desktop (video ok) but as I mentioned above setting TV's HDMI black level to Normal - madVR playing HDR at 0-255 now dark scenes ok. YCbCr422 12 bpc - HDR desktop has much better colors but madVR's black clipping comes too early 2-10% is black -16% nearly black.

[mytbyte]

1809 is pulled is well known to be broken and has yet another WDDM version so expect a lot of driver problems.

https://youtu.be/uOxmONFwsG4?t=72

:D

(sorry, had to...)

[huhn]

Googl for rtfm, ok reading the f.. manual - nothing concrete. Reading a Prad technican who said it is not as easy as switching 0-255 / 16-235 but the TV is "trying" to higher-lower some curves in that direction with changing success. Which does not mean that some levels/colors are completely "terminated" its more like smooth waves.. I think thats the reason why TV manuals never tell us hard numbers but somewhat deeeeper, wiiiider (https://www.samsung.com/ph/support/tv-audio-video/what-is-the-hdmi-black-level-setting/) :) In the end it lies in the eye of the each person.
you didn't read every Manuel that is there.
my TV has full normal and auto and all 3d do exactly what you would understand under these names and there is no wave what ever going on this is a very simple thing for a Tv and a well understood topic.
Thinking about the "black-ish" HDR thing I remembered that madshi told me once (Aug.2016 in an other language) he would not recommend YCbCr but at this time he had no UHD panel. But to have a chance for 10-Bit video you need YCbCr422 at 10 or 12 bpc (bit per channel). As I could read the "RGB hardliners" hate that, running in squares through the room tearing their hair out, trying 444 10-bit through HDMI2 whatever..
but HDMI 2.0 can send 12 bit RGB@UHD.
can you please stop making stuff up?
So maybe madshi just did not test much in YCbCr (hoping he finally got some HDR TV). Win10 set to HDR with GPU output "RGB full" shows here pale greenish colors on the desktop (video ok) but as I mentioned above setting TV's HDMI black level to Normal - madVR playing HDR at 0-255 now dark scenes ok. YCbCr422 12 bpc - HDR desktop has much better colors but madVR's black clipping comes too early 2-10% is black -16% nearly black.

if your don't send RGB from the GPU you are at the mercy of the GPU driver. and again it is a very easy topic. you throw full range RGb at the GPU driver and it will amke limited range YCbCr out of it. nothing new.
and because you have troubles with this topic don't assume other HDR TVs and other use have the same problems.
and YCbCr a thing with 1080p TVs and what do you evne test it is not in his hands what the GPU driver does.

[vanden]

http://thumbs2.imagebam.com/d0/9e/10/641fe9995220124.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/641fe9995220124) http://thumbs2.imagebam.com/55/38/4d/82a011995220164.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/82a011995220164)

any ideas why the picture changes to black and white for me as soon as I set "highlight recovery strength" to anything else than 'none'?
Exactly same problem here !

MPC-HC 1.7.13 (x86&x64)
MADVR 0.92.17
Geforce 650Ti
DL580G5 (4xXeonX7460)
Win10 1803

it worked fine before (DirectCompute ?)
And it possible to be able to choose the old algo ?

[mytbyte]

why don't you upgrade to MPC-HC 1.8.3, that fixed some things for me (not related to MadVR, however)...

[vanden]

why don't you upgrade to MPC-HC 1.8.3, that fixed some things for me (not related to MadVR, however)...

Because it does not change anything ! :

http://thumbs2.imagebam.com/c5/47/73/b7f0ee998714274.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b7f0ee998714274)
http://thumbs2.imagebam.com/c9/23/80/9c23eb998714364.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/9c23eb998714364)

[chros]

Because it does not change anything ! :

http://thumbs2.imagebam.com/c5/47/73/b7f0ee998714274.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b7f0ee998714274)
http://thumbs2.imagebam.com/c9/23/80/9c23eb998714364.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/9c23eb998714364)
Madshi knows about this and tries to do something about it.

[Thunderbolt8]

Your GPU doesn't support DirectCompute, which highlight recovery uses, or your extremely high rendering times could be causing this.

https://www.geforce.com/hardware/notebook-gpus/geforce-gtx-760m/specifications

directcompute should be supported

I cant play 4k resolution downscaled anyway, but even when I make a 1080p x265 HDR encode from my source which plays smoothly I get the same result.

[Klaus1189]

HDMI 2.0 can send 12 bit RGB@UHD.
can you please stop making stuff up?

This is correct, but there is something missing.

There are more specs to look at here:
1.) resolution -> UHD - 3840x2160
2.) color depth -> 12 bit per color
3.) Pixelformat -> RGB (no subsampling) or YCbCr 4:4:4 / 4:2:2 / 4:2:0
4.) matching refresh rate for framerate of video -> missing here

It is supported by HDMI 2.0, but only for low refresh rates.

The bandwidth of HDMI 2.0 is known and so you can calculate it by yourself, it isn't that hard ;)

[mkohman]

Hi Guys, I recently upgraded my projector from an x5900 to an x9900 and so far I'm loving it. I have always preferred madVR tone mapping via pixel shades and find that 200 target nits with highlight recovery at (are you mad?) and balanced for the other setting gives me the best results.. However.. I find that the actual picture is lacking in colour it's pale and looks desaturated even with the Option at 35%.

Yesterday I went into the madVR settings and upped the saturation from 0 to 22 and I am absolutely loving what is on my screen. I have full pop as HDR should be and I have never seen HDR this great on a projector with accurate colour, shadow details, highlights blacks etc etc... Thank you to
@madshi
and all the fantastic members on here who always help and support this amazing piece of software.

What I wanted to ask was by having my saturation at 22 is that ok? Will it cause an issue like picture noise etc? I haven't seen any I'll effects but am I the only one who finds that at 0 saturation the HDR looks a little lifeless? Would really appreciate some comments and feedback to help me understand better.. By the way I select 0-255, 10 bit or above, BT2020, powercurve 2.4 within MadVR and RGB 4.4.4 on my HTPC at 10bit for 24hz movies.. Here are some pics with the +22 within madVR.. Thanks for all your help...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/89994dea82b4dbc74a620651040c878d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/9b76a39680d99f6a1d8e0291f125b868.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/4c449d70c6f9e7ca601829753c6607ad.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/e5bf74cfd7ef144e7fc9994c88e1db43.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/bdbda6b96cc2b66a58286d961b8b4b4a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/9d45b73895c5e39a6011fe8ac5926049.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/e030f9599317099818b677ab16e33d26.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/3eae8add3748356bd7a43321f3b0164d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/914787c0c196157e6f4af3ae3fd74cda.jpg

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[blaubart]

but HDMI 2.0 can send 12 bit RGB@UHD.
can you please stop making stuff up?


puuh why so angry? In the states they want 60Hz (https://www.golem.de/news/hdmi-2-0-und-displayport-hdr-bleibt-handarbeit-1802-132884-5.html).

[Warner306]

https://www.geforce.com/hardware/notebook-gpus/geforce-gtx-760m/specifications

directcompute should be supported

I cant play 4k resolution downscaled anyway, but even when I make a 1080p x265 HDR encode from my source which plays smoothly I get the same result.

I would still guess it has something to do with Direct Compute or the version of it used by your GPU, but madshi would have to say for sure.

[mrmojo666]

puuh why so angry? In the states they want 60Hz (https://www.golem.de/news/hdmi-2-0-und-displayport-hdr-bleibt-handarbeit-1802-132884-5.html).

tv is interlaced 60i, so no worries imho

[Klaus1189]

tv is interlaced 60i, so no worries imho

Sorry, but it is very humble. There is not only 50i/60i.
Every "flatscreen" (-> LCD/OLED/...) is native progressive.
Only old CRTs were able to display interlaced content natively.
AND the deinterlacers of TVs are not as good as software deinterlacers, just try them in comparison and we continue here.
I tested also 20k TVs (20k is not the resolution ;)) :devil:

[Razoola]

Is it only me but has anyone else using 92.17 and that last xysubfilter build 3.1.0.752 found that madVRs ability to move subtitles into the black bars stopped? The option is moving subtitles down to the bottom of the movie but not into the black bars when they are there. I'm using LAV 0.73 in case thats important also.

[mytbyte]

tv is interlaced 60i, so no worries imho

Come on, what about UHD sports @ 50/60 fps????

[pirlouy]

The abuse of "quote" and "img" tags is too damn high. Polluters.

[huhn]

This is correct, but there is something missing.

There are more specs to look at here:
1.) resolution -> UHD - 3840x2160
2.) color depth -> 12 bit per color
3.) Pixelformat -> RGB (no subsampling) or YCbCr 4:4:4 / 4:2:2 / 4:2:0
4.) matching refresh rate for framerate of video -> missing here

It is supported by HDMI 2.0, but only for low refresh rates.

The bandwidth of HDMI 2.0 is known and so you can calculate it by yourself, it isn't that hard ;)

remind me of thsi line again when you come up with i want to learn.
i well know the HDMI spec.

Sorry, but it is very humble. There is not only 50i/60i.
Every "flatscreen" (-> LCD/OLED/...) is native progressive.
Only old CRTs were able to display interlaced content natively.
AND the deinterlacers of TVs are not as good as software deinterlacers, just try them in comparison and we continue here.
I tested also 20k TVs (20k is not the resolution
the sony OLEd can do interlanced natively

and what software deinterlancer are you using in realtime which your HTPC?

[mrmojo666]

Come on, what about UHD sports @ 50/60 fps????

aren't they interlaced ? so what's the point of this discussion ? better 60i to deinterlaced 60/2 fps UHD rgb 10bit 4:4:4 or deinterlaced 60/2*2 fps UHD rgb 8bit 4:4:4 or 60i deinterlaced 60/2*2 fps UHD YCbCr 4:2:2 ? who knows? could be personal decision ? until hdmi stardad is like that, ppl have to deal with.
always imho

[mytbyte]

@mrmojo: There is no interlace with UHD. UHD broadcasts are 50/60 progressive. UHD broadcasts ARE TV. That's all my comment was about.

[Asmodian]

HDMI 2.1 will be nice but people care about 10/12 bit way too much, at least on most displays and using madVR it offers a very minimal quality improvement. If you want 60 Hz use 8 bit RGB, it is great quality and you probably couldn't tell whether or not it was using 10 or 12 bit in a blind test. :p

[mrmojo666]

@mrmojo: There is no interlace with UHD. They are progressive. 60 Hz does matter.


ok so know makes sense. I thought they still are interlaced the UHD broadcasting.

so no other choice for hdmi than YCbCr.

[mytbyte]

ok so know makes sense. I thought they still are interlaced the UHD broadcasting.

so no other choice for hdmi than YCbCr.

That's right - so, sadly, no much benefit from MadVR chroma upsampling with 60fps UHD content.

[huhn]

just use 8 bit the topic is nothing new.

[blaubart]

HDMI 2.1 will be nice..

..anything goes then and we all will happily buy new hardware.. :sly:

[Klaus1189]

The abuse of "quote" and "img" tags is too damn high. Polluters.

This is needed IMHO, very humble, so someone knows to what he/she is resonding to. But I agree, images should be used as external links. This hole thread is so freaking hard to read, too many prople interacting. I think I leave.

I never deinterlace a source when creating a file, only while playing a deinterlacer should be placed. It doesn‘t matter which one of LAV you use, you will never get a better deinterlacer in a tv. If you use a madvr, you also prefer the updcaling of it and don‘t let your tv handle it, right?

[ryrynz]

Some people seem to think that replying to any post means you need to quote the entire thing or have no idea they can alter it. I'd guess about 25% of this thread is pointless quoting. Just mention it whenever it becomes a problem, I'd think some have learned as I've mentioned it multiple times. Would be nice if there was a mod here but it's not a huge problem, not a lot of newcomers so things should improve.

[huhn]

madVr doesn't support proper interlanced output.
the RGB conversation is enough to ruin it so it is not really possible to test Tv deinterlancer with it.
on the other hand YADIf will not "win" against a frame addptive deinterlanced that is used in GPU hardware deinterlancer.

while software deinterlancing has the "best" deinterlancer "QTGMC" which is hard to do in real time hardware deinterlancer are consider to be the part of the better ones.

edit: fixed major typo

[SamuriHL]

The only real issue right now is that madvr can't deinterlace with the D3D11 decoder....at least not yet. Once it can, it'll be a good option.

[x7007]

Something weird that happened ...

All this time I used Nvidia Output Dynamic Range - FULL - TV was set Black level - HIGH , MADVR was set to 0-255 . now suddenly when I watch a movie I see crushed blacks ... it didn't happen before 1809 I think or with other nvidia drivers. I am not sure when it was working fine . I usually watch HDR so it's limited there but I will also check this... what this setting needs to be with HDR in MADVR ?

Do we need to set 16-235 always now in MADVR even with OLED FULL Range support ?

LG OLED E6 5.30.30 ISF Dark Movie profile - Black Level - AUTO (HIGH)
Windows 10 1809 17763.55
Nvidia 1080 416.16 set to FULL and Use Default color settings

[jandari]

HDR is working again with nVidia 416.34 drivers

[x7007]

HDR is working again with nVidia 416.34 drivers

but it also worked 416.16 ... with hdr what do you set Madvr ? 16-235 or 0-255 ?

Weird,,,, HDR works fine with 0-255.... why SDR doesn't work now , I am sure it works fine before....

Anyone notice this also or something else ?? it really crush the black ( picture ) and it didn't do before, it just made it look better , making the washed up white light thing ...

If someone knows something or can check it please write ,,, I have no idea what's wrong . is that how it suppose to be ? If I choose for example

Nvidia - Limited . TV - LOW Madvr 0-255 ? would it work or I get also crash ? I mean it worked fine like this also before.


******* NEVER MIND I've found the issue, some of the potplayer settings has been change maybe some shortcuts I accidently clicked ..... rofl..........

some numbers with the bars has been somehow moved ... so I reverted them to 50%

https://i.imgur.com/rnQu9q6.png

[austonrush]

Hey Guys, I've got a repeated frames glitch when starting a video file. The audio plays in the background but, the video portion initially freezes. This started after the latest windows 10 and nvidia upgrade, never had it before. It can freeze for up to 10 seconds sometimes. Anyone else seeing this? It is not exclusive to any one video.

https://imgur.com/a/t8eGSZZ on average it repeats about 900 frames before the video kicks in.

Once the video eventually begins playing I have no other issues for the remainder of playback.

MPC-HC 64 bit (tried both 1.7 and 1.8 builds)
External Lav (latest night build 73.0-1)
MADVR 92.17 (CPU Queue Size 16 and GPU Queue of 12)

If I use EVR custom Presenter instead of madvr I get Instant playback. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling madvr as well.

- toggling between options for fullscreen exclusive mode and Direct3D 11 for Presentation had no effect.

[LigH]

I already had a similar issue under Windows 7 in MPC-HC with madVR when any other application using DirectX 11 functions (e.g. a 3D game) is already running.

[austonrush]

game bar and game recording are disabled on my pc and I'm not running any gpu monitoring software. Nothing else running in the background, games etc.

[Sunset1982]

Hey Guys, I've got a repeated frames glitch when starting a video file. The audio plays in the background but, the video portion initially freezes. This started after the latest windows 10 and nvidia upgrade, never had it before. It can freeze for up to 10 seconds sometimes. Anyone else seeing this? It is not exclusive to any one video.

https://imgur.com/a/t8eGSZZ on average it repeats about 900 frames before the video kicks in.

Once the video eventually begins playing I have no other issues for the remainder of playback.

MPC-HC 64 bit (tried both 1.7 and 1.8 builds)
External Lav (latest night build 73.0-1)
MADVR 92.17 (CPU Queue Size 16 and GPU Queue of 12)

If I use EVR custom Presenter instead of madvr I get Instant playback. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling madvr as well.

- toggling between options for fullscreen exclusive mode and Direct3D 11 for Presentation had no effect.


had this problem too, after I updated Win10 to 1809. Did a restore to 1803 and everything is good again. The update also destroyed my ati driver panel. Did not have the tab to change RGB values after the update.

Maybe you should try a clean Install of Win10 1809 with latest nvidia drivers.