madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[andybkma]

Please read this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1575712&postcount=13183), and this one (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1575776&postcount=13194) if you want the details. In short: do not use adaptive v-sync, it's for gaming. (and a poor choice at that, in my opinion)

Just leave it to "Use the 3D application setting" or force it on. (should have the same result)



Thanks for your kind reply. Do you mean though force it Off? Or do I have it backwards that Off is actually turning Adaptive V-Sync on? Cheers....

[ryrynz]

Set Vertical sync to 'on' or 'use the 3D application setting'

[andybkma]

Set Vertical sync to 'on' or 'use the 3D application setting'

Ok, now I'm a tad confused and yes, I'm dumb. On page 663 of the thread we have some people saying to turn "Off" Vertical Sync (Mikey2) and we have others saying to turn "On" Vertical Sync (6233638). But I guess all are in agreement not to set it to "Adaptive". I'm just going to leave it at "Use the 3d application setting" which I guess is the same as Vertical Sync "On"?

[6233638]

Ok, now I'm a tad confused and yes, I'm dumb. On page 663 of the thread we have some people saying to turn "Off" Vertical Sync (Mikey2) and we have others saying to turn "On" Vertical Sync (6233638). But I guess all are in agreement not to set it to "Adaptive". I'm just going to leave it at "Use the 3d application setting" which I guess is the same as Vertical Sync "On"?Disabling V-Sync causes the image to tear (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Tearing_%28simulated%29.jpg), it should never be off for video playback. (note: multiple tears like this are caused by the framerate running above the refresh rate, single tears are when the framerate is below the refresh rate) Adaptive V-Sync selectively disables v-sync when it's running below the refresh rate, and turns it on when running at or above the refresh rate.

The only time you should disable v-sync is when latency matters above image quality. (game tournaments playing for money)

MadVR's exclusive mode is designed to avoid tearing if at all possible.

[dukey]

You never want v-sync disabled unless you are benchmarking. Otherwise you'll see frames in the frame buffer as they are still being drawn. Exclusive mode just skips desktop composition. It's how opengl renders in full screen on vista/7.

[igvk]

Hello!

I tried using madVR with Lucid's VirtuMVP, but it wasn't a success.
I want to use iGPU with Quick Sync feature via LAV Video Filter, and show video via discrete GPU (NVidia).
Is this configuration supported in madVR?

[SamuriHL]

It's not madVR that's the issue. It's very complicated to set this up. There's a post in another thread about doing this. It's not done through Virtu. I have mine set up so that I can do this if I want. You essentially go into your display properties, set the intel GPU as an extended display and enable it. If you do that, LAV should show QS as being available. It can be a little flaky though. I've got mine working perfectly, but, I use the Intel GPU for audio to my receiver and the 680 directly to the TV. (This is how I'll do 3D when I upgrade my TV later this year as my receiver doesn't support 3D). The one caveat I'll warn you about is that when you upgrade the nVidia driver it disables the intel GPU extended display so you have to go re-enable it. Good luck. You may need it. :D

[igvk]

I actually tried and know that it's possible with EVR.
Example is in the attachment.
I don't like the idea of setting another "fake" extended desktop that much.
Seems that it's madVR that doesn't recognize this kind of setup.

[SamuriHL]

Not sure what to tell you. As I said, it works just fine for me. I prefer my 680's CUVID in LAV for the moment but I tested QS to see how well it worked. I had no real problems with it.

[kalston]

I was just going to post that I recently had to do some troubleshooting as I was getting dropped frames on my system (turns out I had accidentally switched the audio renderer away from ReClock) but in doing so, I've found that the latest Nvidia drivers (301.42) now work perfectly with the default settings for fullscreen exclusive mode, when previously I had to be tweaking settings depending on the driver version.

With 30fps videos at 60Hz, it's not filling the queues, and the present queue even drops to "0–1/4" at times, but it's never resulted in a dropped/delayed frame or presentation glitch, even with videos over two hours in length.

24p@24Hz, 50p@50Hz or 60p@60Hz have full queues at all times.


That said, changing to:
Flush, Sleep, Don't, Sleep in Windowed mode, and
Flush Sleep, Don't, Flush in Exclusive mode, results in fuller queues and lower render & present times. Probably not a necessary change, but may help on slower systems?

I'm also able to turn up the CPU, GPU and Present queues up as high as they go without any performance impacts. Previously if the queues were set too high (even the default 12/8/4) I'd start to get presentation glitches. That said, I have just left them at the defaults now.

Yes FSE seems to work ok again with those nvidia drivers but I've found that it isn't always the case. 72hz/24fps is ok for example (default settings), but 60hz/30fps isn't unless I increase the present queue to 8 or more (but then it's 72hz/24fps that doesn't work properly...). Basically I can find settings that result in flawless playback but it always ends up breaking playback with a different refresh rate/framerate.

Also, I'm not sure why the present queue is not always full. IMO it's still very buggy and nothing like 260.99 or older drivers where things were truly flawless for me.
So I eventually went back to the old FSE (yet again) for the peace of mind (that way I can keep the same settings for 72hz/24-48fps, 75hz/25-50fps, 60hz/60-30fps etc. and playback just "works" no matter what).

But then again I have an older GPU so I guess I can't expect newer nvidia drivers to make things much better for me.

[aufkrawall]

I actually tried and know that it's possible with EVR.
Example is in the attachment.
I don't like the idea of setting another "fake" extended desktop that much.
Seems that it's madVR that doesn't recognize this kind of setup.
Don't use Virtu. ;)
The virtual display workaround works fine.

[Mikey2]

I will make this one quick: The fix to my long post (regarding a problem with the new driver and sporadic stuttering) was to turn V-Sync off. I understand tearing issues - my old system (pre-MadVR) was terrible with tearing without D3D turned on. However, I have now watched a few movies since turning V-Sync off and I have yet to see any tearing. (I just need to make sure to set my refresh rate to a multiple of the source material and use ReClock.)

But I am a software engineer (lol who could not figure out a [code] tag ;) and I like "correct" solutions. It seems to me that the new V-Sync is losing its lock on my file-stream. Does anyone know what I can try for a "real" fix of my issue? (Rather than giving up on V-Sync altogether?)

Thanks again for bearing with me everyone!
MikeY

[igvk]

Don't use Virtu. ;)
The virtual display workaround works fine.

The virtual display workaround isn't convenient at all.
I'm used to quickly switching displays between LCD and projector via Win+P key, and I don't think it will position iGPU display correctly.
The mouse will also tend to jump into another display - it' s annoying.
Nevertheless, thanks for your suggestions - now I know that madVR is incompatible with VirtuMVP, and there still exists a (not perfect) workaround.

[FlashGordon]

added: new IVTC option to only look at pixels in the frame center

Has anyone been playing around with this option? I had it enabled until last night when I kept getting stuttering on certain scenes from a progressive PAL DVD. Turns out disabling it actually fixed the problem. The sequences it happened on seemed rather normal, with IVTC off there seemed to be no problem, but with IVTC on it would detect 'unknown cadence' and stutter. Is there any reason why it would behave this way if it were only looking at the center of the frame? Also, for those of you who use madvr to watch DVDs as well, do you have IVTC forced on even when the DVD is progressive? Would there theoretically be any adverse affects doing so?

[dukey]

You can't inverse telecine pal

[FlashGordon]

Right, but most of the time I leave IVTC on anyway and it just detects the cadence as 2:2 and no problems. The issue here was the option that only looked at the frame center; with that option enabled certain scenes would stutter. Unchecking that option and still leaving IVTC on would cause no problems.

What I do is just force Film Mode so I don't have to keep switching it, so it stays on for PAL content too and I usually have no problem since it can't get IVTC'd anyway. My last question was in regards to leaving IVTC on even when you don't need it and whether that is recommended or not.

[Andy o]

What kind of material is it? Ideally you shouldn't have to look on the center of the frame only, but TV stations put up logos in the borders that run at 60i, messing up IVTC.

[FlashGordon]

Film material, retail PAL DVD. The confusing part is that having it look at the entire frame turned out fine, but when it looked at just the center it glitched. It's not like this was consistently happening, either, but there were around 4-5 times that this happened through-out the film. At first I didn't suspect that it was because of this new option, but I turned it off just to test and it turned out to be the culprit

[Andy o]

What I meant is that that option to look in the center only is a workaround for the stupid animated logos and ads TV stations put on their shows. It is expected that for normal content without logos, looking at the whole screen would perform better, and in fact that's what madshi recommends for content like animation.

[6233638]

You can't inverse telecine palNo, but you need 2:2 cadence detection to determine whether content is 50i or 25p.

Film material, retail PAL DVD. The confusing part is that having it look at the entire frame turned out fine, but when it looked at just the center it glitched. It's not like this was consistently happening, either, but there were around 4-5 times that this happened through-out the film. At first I didn't suspect that it was because of this new option, but I turned it off just to test and it turned out to be the culpritIt would probably be good to post a sample of the section that's causing this.

DGMPGDec (http://hank315.nl/files/DGdecode/dgmpgdec158_SSE.zip) will let you cut a section from the DVD. Open the relevant .VOB file Make a short selection with the [ and ] tools. Save Project and Demux Video Upload the demuxed .m2v file. (I tend to use mediafire)

Personally I just force film mode, because there's virtually nothing I have which is not 25p.

[pirlouy]

The only time you should disable v-sync is when latency matters above image quality. (game tournaments playing for money)

As previously said, I don't want to start a new discussion about Vsync, but I disagree with your point of view (i.e. you're wrong).

If you disable Vsync totally (you have to stop Aero for that), you will not have tearing if you use madVR D3D mode...

[6233638]

If you disable Vsync totally (you have to stop Aero for that), you will not have tearing if you use madVR D3D mode...Then the control must not be disabling V-Sync with madVR.

EDIT: I have just tested this with a 1.85:1 aspect ratio film, and there absolutely is screen tearing with Aero off and V-Sync disabled. It happens to be right near the top of the image though, so it's probably not visible with 2.37:1 films as it will be hidden in the black bars.

[JackSparrow1]

Hello,

Guys i have "intel I5 480M" processor, when playing 10 bit video using MadVR the colors of the video will be bad, here is a picture :

http://i.imgur.com/tdfOV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eQhnh.jpg

also i have the lastet driver & direct x version .. what's the solution ?

[Qaq]

JackSparrow1, the solution is video decoder with Hi10p support. LAV video, for example.

[JackSparrow1]

@Qaq Yeah i'm using LAV video decoder, also i used ffdshow .. but still the same problem .

[vivan]

matrix -> YCgCo o_O
Downloaded that video - with EVR everything is ok... because EVR doesn't know what YCgCo is. So stream is broken.

[Qaq]

@Qaq Yeah i'm using LAV video decoder, also i used ffdshow .. but still the same problem .
ctrl+j and check
http://i29.fastpic.ru/big/2011/1010/0c/8b9f5afda15e4b455d63cb5249cd150c.png
oops, sorry, couldn't see those screenshots.

[JackSparrow1]

@Qaq

http://i.imgur.com/eQhnh.jpg

it's already using PO16 input, but like i said the colors are too bad ..

[vivan]

For that broken video disable evrything except RGB24/32 in "Ouput formats". Since LAV doesn't support YCgCo it would also produce "correct" result.
After watching - try writing trojan that will delete any file with name "x264" and send it to the person who encoded that video.

ctrl+j and checkHe already posted screenshot with P010 decoder output!

[JackSparrow1]

@vivan

I'm so stupid! i tried 4 "10 bit" videos all of them from the same person, after that i noticed the problem was from his videos! xD , so now i can watch "10 bit" videos with P016 input normally.. =)

but another problem, there is dropped frames when i use madVR = (

[ajp_anton]

but another problem, there is dropped frames when i use madVR = (Your GPU is very slow. Try a faster scaling algo.

[CraziFuzzy]

So here's a possibly one of a kind feature I'm trying to cook up. not really sure if this is the part of the path to put it though. Here's the deal:

Texas Instruments DLP sets use a wobulation mirror to turn their half-res DLP chip's image into a full 1920x1080 image. This, in effect, is sort of a modified interlacing, where every other pixel (in a checkerboard pattern) is displayed every 120th of a second. What I'm thinking, is that this would allow for perfectly smooth 24Hz playback, without changing video mode from 1920x1080p60, if properly rendered into this checkerboard pattern. It would make sense to be done at the GPU level (simple for a pixel shader to handle). Expand the video up to 120Hz, then merge every frame pair down with a checkerboard mask (top left pixel is displayed first).

Here's a sample AVScript that technically WOULD be able to do it, if it weren't so slow:
ConvertFPS(120)
CheckerBoard=ImageSource("CheckerBoard.png")
Overlay(SelectOdd,SelectEven,mask=CheckerBoard)
ConvertFPS(60)
CheckerBoard.png is a 1-pixel black-white checkerboard, 1920x1080.

This FPS to 120, then recombine down to 60 isn't necessarily the most optimized method, but it's the only method that could almost automatically handle and input frame-rate. You could, instead, only perform this operation on 24Hz material, and instead simple buplicate images 2.5 times, with the half-frame checkerboarded.

I know this idea would result in incredibly smooth video, but I'm not a coder, and wouldn't know where to start. It would SEEM since you've already got some DeInt going on at the GPU level in MadVR, that this could be done there also - flagged on as an option for the certain display perhaps.

[TheElix]

Page 666 must be the page where new madVR version will be announced.

[ajp_anton]

Which means we're only halfway there.

[dansrfe]

Any idea on how to increase decoding speed or prevent frames from dropping when decoding 10bit? My CPU is showing ~70% consumption and there's still ~1.5GB of RAM left yet my present queue is dwindling around 0-2 to 3-4 with spikes in-between and I'm dropping 1-2 frames every other second or so. Queue settings 12/10/10/10 exclusive, 12/10/10/8 windowed. Default flush settings for both windowed and exclusive.

OS: Windows 7 x64

Filter chain:
MPC-HC x86 latest
madVR latest
LAV Filters x86 latest; mostly defaults.
ffdshow audio post processor to downmix via prologic to 2.0

[kalston]

Then the control must not be disabling V-Sync with madVR.

EDIT: I have just tested this with a 1.85:1 aspect ratio film, and there absolutely is screen tearing with Aero off and V-Sync disabled. It happens to be right near the top of the image though, so it's probably not visible with 2.37:1 films as it will be hidden in the black bars.

I don't get tearing in FSE (old path), not even in the right corner or anything, with Aero off and vsync disabled/enabled. However, windowed mode is unwatchable with vsync off.

I just leave vsync on "let application decide" all the time anyway, you never know, vsync might come in handy with some specific game/application.

[mzso]

Hello!

I'm experiencing an issue with black levels. With some files the black level is way off, and I only get darkish grey instead of black. When I switched to another renderer it didn't happen. Anyone experienced this?
Here's a sample: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByfdfPvnoDuzWkI4YjVHNndqRVE

[Gelatinous]

Hello!

I'm experiencing an issue with black levels. With some files the black level is way off, and I only get darkish grey instead of black. When I switched to another renderer it didn't happen. Anyone experienced this?
Here's a sample: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByfdfPvnoDuzWkI4YjVHNndqRVE

open madVR config, go to devices>[your display]>properties, then toggle between PC Levels (0-255) and TV Levels (16-235) and see which looks better.

[mzso]

open madVR config, go to devices>[your display]>properties, then toggle between PC Levels (0-255) and TV Levels (16-235) and see which looks better.

I did that. It was on PC levels as it should. Switching to the other just makes all files wrong, and makes the test file worse.
Since then I've been tinkering with settings but nothing seems to work. Switched between driver versions also. (for gts450 BTW) Its the same with both PotPlayer and MPC-HC.
I tried resetting the settings with botha "restore default settings.bat" and manually by searching for madvr in the registry but even that didn't work. The settings didn't get reset to default.

On top all this I get quite significant aliasing with madvr on the reds even if I set everything to soft cubic 100, compared to EVR Custom with Potplayer's YV12 upsampling shader.

[Andy o]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but anyone has an idea if madVR, full quality, could run on a 2880x1800 display, with a GT650m? (You know what I'm talking about.)

[Hypernova]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but anyone has an idea if madVR, full quality, could run on a 2880x1800 display, with a GT650m? (You know what I'm talking about.)

If intel HD4000 can drive my 2560x1600 with spline, then I think 2880x1800 is not really a big deal.

[DeadlyEmbrace]

Any idea on how to increase decoding speed or prevent frames from dropping when decoding 10bit? My CPU is showing ~70% consumption and there's still ~1.5GB of RAM left yet my present queue is dwindling around 0-2 to 3-4 with spikes in-between and I'm dropping 1-2 frames every other second or so. Queue settings 12/10/10/10 exclusive, 12/10/10/8 windowed. Default flush settings for both windowed and exclusive.

OS: Windows 7 x64

Filter chain:
MPC-HC x86 latest
madVR latest
LAV Filters x86 latest; mostly defaults.
ffdshow audio post processor to downmix via prologic to 2.0

Get a faster processor.
I have the same problem on my laptop(dual core), but my home rig(Quad core) hardly feels a 10bit file.

[SamuriHL]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but anyone has an idea if madVR, full quality, could run on a 2880x1800 display, with a GT650m? (You know what I'm talking about.)

I've been contemplating the same idea. Amazing hardware.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

[dansrfe]

Get a faster processor.
I have the same problem on my laptop(dual core), but my home rig(Quad core) hardly feels a 10bit file.

Currently I have a C2D @ 2.66GHz but my quad core desktop seems to take the file with ease as well.

Having said that I still don't understand why the C2D can't handle the decoding since the processor usage is barely touching 70%. What about the other 30%?

[dansrfe]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but anyone has an idea if madVR, full quality, could run on a 2880x1800 display, with a GT650m? (You know what I'm talking about.)

What I fear the most is upscaling of 1080p content to that resolution. My monitor is 2048 x 1152p60 but it can change it's resolution (by some mechanism unknown to me) to 1080p24 (which I control in madVR's refresh rate changer) and it works perfectly without adding unnecessary burden on the GPU to sit there and upscale.

Anyone have any opinions on quality impact assuming that the GPU can scale 1080p -> 1800p ?

I realize that this is going from a high resolution to a very high resolution on a fairly small screen so it wouldn't make that much a difference but I wonder if there is some quantitative test that can be done to compare resolution scaling from high resolutions to higher resolutions in context of physical screen size.

Big fan of the retina display resolution though. iPhone 4, iPad 3 and possibly the new MacBook?? :) The cost is a bit high as of now though.

[SamuriHL]

$3300 bucks for the one I just priced out for myself. YIKES. But it'd be a nice screen for movies and madVR would rock on something like that.

[Hypernova]

What I fear the most is upscaling of 1080p content to that resolution. My monitor is 2048 x 1152p60 but it can change it's resolution (by some mechanism unknown to me) to 1080p24 (which I control in madVR's refresh rate changer) and it works perfectly without adding unnecessary burden on the GPU to sit there and upscale.

Anyone have any opinions on quality impact assuming that the GPU can scale 1080p -> 1800p ?


Again, I've been doing 720p/1080p -> 1600p for years. Intel HD4000 can handle that with madVR spline 3/4 taps. I don't think you'd have a problem with that with 650m. I'm not sure what exactly are you worrying about the "quality?" It is what it is. For upscaling, you can pick your poison between blurriness or ringing. Finding the best in-between of that depends on your personal opinion. Rescaling at high resolution is not different from lower one. There is no reference point to divide between high and low in the first place.

About your monitor, unless it's a CRT, what happen is of course it uses its internal resizer, which I would not use over madVR's. And my guess is that 24p is a fake as well. I'd just left it as native and let madVR/Reclock doing the best they can.

Slightly off topic: Still, I don't see a reason why you'd want a high dpi screen for movies. I'm a pixel junkies when it comes to works. I've been waiting for high DPI monitors to come out in "consumer" price range for years. Hopefully this MacBook pro would start the trend so I can get high DPI monitor later (Don't use a mac, and have no plan to). But for movies, anything higher than the movies' resolution itself is a waste IMO. And from what it looks like, we're going to stuck with 1080p for years to come. Well, you could say you buy for the future I guess, but I think by the time I have something bigger than 1080p to watch, the matching resolution screen/projector would be much cheaper and better option than buying that MacBook now.

Also, I personally not "seriously" watching movie in a laptop. I'd get a monitor/projector for that. :D

[SamuriHL]

In my case it's not for main viewing. I'm looking into a new notebook sometime this year or early next and I simply like the specs of the hardware. The screen will ROCKS for picture editing. The idea of doing movies on it is for when I'm traveling. Better than my 10.1" Xoom. :D I need to price a similarly configured windows laptop (obviously minus the screen) and see if the price differential is so high that I'd be insane to get the macbook pro simply for the hardware. But you gotta admit, it's a beast.

[Hypernova]

In my case it's not for main viewing. I'm looking into a new notebook sometime this year or early next and I simply like the specs of the hardware. The screen will ROCKS for picture editing. The idea of doing movies on it is for when I'm traveling. Better than my 10.1" Xoom. :D I need to price a similarly configured windows laptop (obviously minus the screen) and see if the price differential is so high that I'd be insane to get the macbook pro simply for the hardware. But you gotta admit, it's a beast.
For photo editing, that make sense. If you could hold on to next year I'd do it though. Haswell's coming, and if you read the Building Windows 8 blog, they also expected a 2560x1600+ in 11" screen IIRC. So high DPI is probably coming to Windows laptop as well.

Back to madVR, it's a shame there is probably no way to get it run on Windows RT. I'll probably have to stick with x86-64 version. Now I wonder if whatever GPU that come with Clover Trail will be able to handle madVR.

[SamuriHL]

For photo editing, that make sense. If you could hold on to next year I'd do it though. Haswell's coming, and if you read the Building Windows 8 blog, they also expected a 2560x1600+ in 11" screen IIRC. So high DPI is probably coming to Windows laptop as well.

Back to madVR, it's a shame there is probably no way to get it run on Windows RT. I'll probably have to stick with x86-64 version. Now I wonder if whatever GPU that come with Clover Trail will be able to handle madVR.

To me the pairing of a 650m on that macbook pro is a perfect match. I just got through updating my HTPC's and both are running nVidia. My main HTPC is a 3770k with a 680 and it is AWESOME for madVR. I have FSE turned off and have nary a blip. As awesome as Haswell is going to be, I could certainly stick with IVB across all my machines. I just don't have the money for any other machines right now and I BADLY want to upgrade my TV. I think that'll end up taking precedence over a new laptop this year. In the end I may end up getting Haswell anyway just because I doubt I can finance another major purchase until then. Whatever I get will have to work with madVR though. It's a requirement.

As for Windows RT, that's an interesting idea, but, who knows what's involved there. Does it support directx? I honestly haven't looked into the platform to know enough about what it supports and doesn't.