madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

Any chances of a deband on/off toggle?
What for? Do you really plan to disable/enable debanding all the time? Isn't a toggle to run through the various options good enough? Normally I'd guess that you just set it to a default value for all movies and just increase the strength for bad files. The current toggle should work fine for that purpose, no?

Just want to run this one by you, one other filter I've often used in Avisynth is Psharpen, IMO it does a fantastic job of sharpening in a natural fashion.
Having come from sharpeners like LSFmod, Seesaw and Finesharp amongst many others over the years I've settled on Psharpen, would you take a look and see if you feel it's worthy for entry into MadVR?
Sorry, no feature requests.

i'm going to get an colorimeter but it is very hard to get information for that at the moment i like to go with the X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro. my aim is to create 3d lut for madvr but is this even the right device or i'm on the wrong path with this ?
There are different names for the meter I'd recommend. The name I remember is "i1 Display 3 Pro". Not sure if that's the one you have in mind.

I notice that the default Zoom Player key mappings conflict with the way you set custom deband values. The arrow keys (all four of them) and F2 are all bound to particular Zoom Player functions, and when you try and set a custom value in madVR, the keys activate Zoom Player functions as soon as you press them. You can of course de-map all of those keys, set the custom values and then re-map those keys back to the original functions, but that is cumbersome. So, I was wondering if you could offer a way for Zoom Player to interact with the custom deband setting without having to de-map the hotkeys first?
Weird. In MPC-HC madVR's keyboard functionality actually "overwrites" the MPC-HC keyboard mapping. So if madVR is in a situation where it accepts arrow key presses, MPC-HC doesn't even see them. Not sure why it's different with ZP. Probably ZP uses a different method to get key presses.

In any case, if Blight wants to make the debanding customization accessible inside of ZP, he can directly edit the registry values. Changes there will only affect the next madVR instance, though, not the current. I don't think it's worth it, though. 99% of all users will probably just use the default presets, and for those arrow keys are not needed. You can also use Ctrl+ArrowKey btw, madVR will still accept that. Maybe that's a solution for you? Not sure if ZP has events registered for that, too?

BTW, I've been meaning to ask you for a while but would you consider keeping all the sub-sections in mVR's config panel permanently open?
Not sure if that's a good idea. Yes, currently all settings fit on one screen, but that might change sooner or later. At least when I implement profiles, users with many profiles will have a long list on the left side and it will not fit on the screen, anymore.

Remembering which sections are open would be a nice feature, but that's not something I can implement in a couple of minutes work, so I consider that a feature request and I don't accept feature requests at the moment (at least not any which cost me more than a couple of minutes of programming work).

I haven't had a chance to try out the presets in these latest builds yet, though the removal of NonGradientPenalty is somewhat concerning, as I found it to do a good job preserving details near black without artifacting as much as LocalContrast, or having as much of a performance hit.
This is going to take a few sentences to explain, but I'll try: The original intention of the NonGradientPenalty was to separate gradient pixels from non-gradient pixels, and to apply a stronger debanding to the gradient pixels. However, the implementation I chose was not really good for testing, because it practically lowered the "midDif" (formerly called "gradient") threshold for almost all pixels in the video, and only left it at the chosen value for very few pixels. So basically if you chose a NonGradientPenalty higher than neutral 1.0, this effectively reduced the midDif/gradient threshold for almost everything. In order to test the real benefit of NonGradientPenalty you had to dial midDif/gradient up the same amount as NonGradientPenalty, to counter this effect.

So recently I decided to change the implemention of NonGradientPenalty to no longer punish the majority of the pixels (namely the non-gradient pixels) and to instead boost the minority of the pixels (namely the gradient pixels). Practically I modified the NonGradientPenalty into a GradientBoost. After I did this I played with high GradientBoost values to see which effect it would have. I even went as high as a 40.0 boost (= 40x factor), but I couldn't really see much (if any) difference. So my final judgement was that the only positive effect of the original NonGradientPenalty was that it turned the midDif/gradient threshold knob down again. Or in other words: Instead of increasing NonGradientPenalty you could also have simply decreased midDif/gradient. So that's what I've done now. Instead of the original "Low" preset of gradient=1.4,nonGradientPenalty=1.2 I'm now simply using gradient=1.2, which produces pretty much the same results.

Of course there's a chance I did something wrong in my testing and nonGradientPenalty actually worked better than I think it did. But my tests with the reversed nonGradientPenalty / gradientBoost were pretty conclusive...

It's not specific to this build, but I've noticed that there are often "outlines" around objects when switching from fullscreen to windowed mode: [...]

This is with debanding disabled, but I'm guessing it's a bug introduced by AngleBoost. They disappear after a few seconds of playback.
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to see in that image?

Something unrelated to that however, is that I was wondering about seeking performance.
I was having to seek through a couple of videos quite a lot the other day, which got me to change my settings to try and improve it.
To give you an idea of what was happening, it was seeking 10s at a time, with the button repeating every 0.1s

The way I had madVR set up before, seeking was very slow and uneven.
Switching to CPU decoding rather than GPU accelerated decoding helped, and of course I unchecked the "disable playback start until render queue is full" option.
After making those changes, it would seek smoothly, but then ever 6-8 seeks, it would freeze up for a second.

The only way I was able to get completely smooth seeking without it pausing was to use Fullscreen Exclusive mode, Windowed Overlay did not seem to help at all.

Is this simply due to the fact that you get better performance in FSE mode, or could it be something else to do with how frames are presented?
I've been avoiding FSE mode ever since installing Windows 8 last year, as madVR keeps switching my display to the wrong refresh rates (23/59 rather than 24/60) but maybe I'll just have to stick with it until that is resolved.

---

And now that I'm using FSE mode again, I'm getting serious problems switching between FSE and Windowed mode when there is a refresh rate change involved. With the maximum queue sizes, I get about 1fps displayed for the first 20s when switching to FSE mode. Reducing the queue sizes to 4 brings that down to about 5 seconds.

This only affects Fullscreen Exclusive and not Fullscreen Windowed mode, and only when there's a refresh rate change involved.
I don't know what to say about this. These are problems I do not experience on my PC. Do many other users have the same problems? I'd have to be able to reproduce this on my PC to be able to do something about it.

I've noticed that it doesn't happen with all files. Try with this one https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16282309/madVR/sample_002.mkv Doesn't matter which MPC-HC version you use.

It crashes always at the same point. Watch from the beginning its around 0:01 :rolleyes:

And crash is somewhere in "fading" code. When I disable debanding or set settings to (medium/medium) there is no crash. (medium/high) crash always... I think madVR crash internally and then when it is poked by mpc-hc everything crashes.
The sample doesn't crash for me. But the hint with the "fading" code was very helpful - thanks! I've found a bug in that code and hope that the crashes are fixed in build 14 (see below)?

It basically stopped working after replacing with the latest deband build. But since then I've tried replacing it back with the latest official build, resetting to default settings, updating to the latest MPC-HC, updating to the latest stable nvidia drivers, and it's still the same problem. I'm not exactly sure what caused the problem which is why I don't know where to begin.
According to your log switching to exclusive mode worked just fine. Can you clarify "stopped working"? Some more details might help. And please quote my post, that way I can directly click/link through our old communication. Otherwise I have to search through the thread to find your previous posts about this topic.

[madshi]

Test build 14, hopefully fixing the last crashes?

http://madshi.net/madVRdeband14.rar

[kasper93]

The sample doesn't crash for me. But the hint with the "fading" code was very helpful - thanks! I've found a bug in that code and hope that the crashes are fixed in build 14 (see below)?

Good work! Everything is fine now. Thanks.

[Demonik]

Hello, i've found a problem with brightness (too high) while playing a file, problem which i traced back to build 0.85.4, 0.85.3 seems fine. attached a sample here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/dfuqnc
Thank you!

[romulous]

Weird. In MPC-HC madVR's keyboard functionality actually "overwrites" the MPC-HC keyboard mapping. So if madVR is in a situation where it accepts arrow key presses, MPC-HC doesn't even see them. Not sure why it's different with ZP. Probably ZP uses a different method to get key presses.

In any case, if Blight wants to make the debanding customization accessible inside of ZP, he can directly edit the registry values. Changes there will only affect the next madVR instance, though, not the current. I don't think it's worth it, though. 99% of all users will probably just use the default presets, and for those arrow keys are not needed. You can also use Ctrl+ArrowKey btw, madVR will still accept that. Maybe that's a solution for you? Not sure if ZP has events registered for that, too?


Thanks, I've let bLight know. I also did some quick checking with Ctrl+Arrows, and that does seem to work...the first time. Something seems to be going wrong somewhere. This is what I did.

1. Mapped hotkey to deband custom settings toggle.
2. Hit that hotkey, Low displays on madVR OSD. Hit it again - this time Low displays, but also then lists the values you can change after it.
3. Use the Ctrl+Arrows to move along, change some values. Then hit F2 to save. All seemed to work fine.
4. Hit custom hotkey again, used arrows to move along, change some values - then when I hit F2, Zoom changed to audio mode.

I do note that only the first time I try and change some values, the 'F2' in the madVR OSD displays. Second and subsequent times, it does not (which is why Zoom enters audio mode, madVR is not attempting to intercept that F2 key). I don't know why madVR does not show the F2 prompt the second and subsequent times.

One other thing I noticed - this may be because it is a beta build, but when you select madVR from Zoom's filter properties, a box usually pops up (MadVR Video Renderer Properties). It gives the text madVR, and then the version number - the version number text is totally cut off with this version of madVR (it is fine with the last stable 0.86.11).

[ryrynz]

What for? Do you really plan to disable/enable debanding all the time? Isn't a toggle to run through the various options good enough? Normally I'd guess that you just set it to a default value for all movies and just increase the strength for bad files. The current toggle should work fine for that purpose, no?



Just useful for quick comparisons. It's a lot easier spotting changes when you can enable and disable rather than running through all presets.


Sorry, no feature requests.


All good.

[Ap3 n1nja]

I can't reproduce issue with your sample. Are you sure you are using http://madshi.net/madVRdeband13.rar ?
I got crashes for 0.86.10, 0.86.11, deband13, as well as deband14.

Anyway if madVR catch the crash just send report to madshi and he will fix it.
Okay, I sent a report. Can't confirm if it went through or not, however.

Ap3 n1nja,
it's probably this issue http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter/issues/detail?id=153
There's a test build up for XySubFilter which should include such old fixes:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10853398/XySubFilter.7z
Unfortunately, the crashes still happen with version 3.1.0.640...

Thanks for the help though, guys. :D

[rack04]

Does debanding only work when using the internal decoding? Also, I noticed in Test build 14 the version field in the filter properties isn't viewable.

[kasper93]

@madshi: There is one minor problem with subtitles in MPC-HC related to this "fading" feature. Basically subtitle blinks. I'm not sure this can be fixed easily fixed. Probably it would need changes in mpc. Anyway I wanted to say that in case you don't know it. Disabling ISR queue fix this glitch.

Does debanding only work when using the internal decoding?
No, it works with every decoder. Anyone is using internal filters? I don't think they are particularity useful.

Also, I noticed in Test build 14 the version field in the filter properties isn't viewable.
Version number is too long probably... But well it's test release, stable will have "normal" number ;p

Okay, I sent a report. Can't confirm if it went through or not, however.
Well, if you send report you need to wait. I'm sure madshi will look at it in the right time :)

[Razoola]

I was wondering, is there some way to disable the 'EXCLUSIVE' message that appears in the top left corner then a video starts? This never used to happen but I recently updated my GFX card drivers and MPC-HC and after that the issue started happening (I don't know which update caused it to start). I have madVR set up to open video in full screen exclusive mode instantly and I'm not delaying the change by three seconds.

[ryrynz]

I was wondering, is there some way to disable the 'EXCLUSIVE' message

Not yet.

[Incriminated]

I really like to have a "toggle exlusive fullscreen mode on/off" in the madVR-trayicon right-click-context-menu, because most of the times I would not like having it enabled for multi-monitor video processing capability, but sometimes i like to have it on for some high-bitrate h264-content to avoid frame-dropps. Actually from this point on i have to click on "edit madvr settings", "rendering", "general settings", switch the "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode", click "apply", click "ok". Same for undo/reverting. Thats pretty annoying task, after you did this about 50 times xD.

With a context-menu shortcut it would be possible to reduce it to 1-click (2 click overall). Can you please integrate such function, madshi?

[michkrol]

With a context-menu shortcut it would be possible to reduce it to 1-click (2 click overall). Can you please integrate such function, madshi?

Try the "automatic fullscreen exclusive mode - enable (disable)" keyboard shortcuts? Every other user would like something in the context menu and it would get cluttered quite fast with options ;)

[Incriminated]

I wasn't awre of that, but thanks for you noting it. Sadly there is only a shortcut for "on" and one for "off". This way it at least works with two keys. Thanks.

[6233638]

In order to test the real benefit of NonGradientPenalty you had to dial midDif/gradient up the same amount as NonGradientPenalty, to counter this effect.Ah, I see.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to see in that image?How it should look:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/roadmrin5.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/roadmrin5.jpg)

What often happens when switching between fullscreen and windowed mode:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/outlinesfvkns.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/outlinesfvkns.jpg)

Probably not the exact frame as I just hit pause, but you get the idea.
It doesn't happen every time, but does happen often, and disappears after a few seconds. (I guess once the queues are full again?)

I don't know what to say about this. These are problems I do not experience on my PC. Do many other users have the same problems? I'd have to be able to reproduce this on my PC to be able to do something about it.Well that's concerning, it's 100% reproducible herre. I'm not sure when this change happened either, as I've not used FSE mode for more than a year at this point - it used to work fine for me.

I've tried MPC-HC as well as JRiver now, and it's happening there too.



Is there any way to customize the debanding settings in the newer builds, without editing the registry? I've had a couple of videos now that needed high/high debanding settings to produce smooth gradients, but they were losing far too much detail.

[stasjok]

The way the new subtitle interface works, madVR needs the GPU to perform subtitle alpha blending - and in 16bit. Unfortunately some older GPUs only support alpha blending in 8bit. For such GPUs you're likely to see an opaque black box instead of smoothly blended subtitles. I'm sorry, but at this point I don't see how I could fix it. It's a hardware limitation of your GPU and the only solution will probably be to upgrade your GPU to a newer model. I believe all newer GPUs can do alpha blending in 16bit without any problems. At least my HD4000 can.


madVR v0.86.10 released


* fixed: #115: XySubFilter: opaque black box on older GPUs


I'm sorry. I didn't get it. I still get this "opaque black box" when smooth motion is enabled. Is it possible to fix this? Or is this "alpha blending in 16bit" required for smooth motion and there is nothing you can do? My GPU is GeForce 9600GT.

Smooth motion disabled
http://s22.postimg.org/8s9povxfx/without.png (http://postimg.org/image/8s9povxfx/)
Smooth motion enabled
http://s22.postimg.org/h997zt24t/with.png (http://postimg.org/image/h997zt24t/)

[Ver Greeneyes]

What often happens when switching between fullscreen and windowed mode:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/outlinesfvkns.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/outlinesfvkns.jpg)
I've seen this effect as well, but usually after leaving a video paused and going to bed instead. I don't use FSE mode that much because I'm used to multitasking. My GPU is a GeForce GTX 580 and I'm using the 331.65 drivers.

[iSunrise]

Ah, I see.

How it should look:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/roadmrin5.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/roadmrin5.jpg)

What often happens when switching between fullscreen and windowed mode:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/outlinesfvkns.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/outlinesfvkns.jpg)

Probably not the exact frame as I just hit pause, but you get the idea.
It doesn't happen every time, but does happen often, and disappears after a few seconds. (I guess once the queues are full again?)

Well that's concerning, it's 100% reproducible herre. I'm not sure when this change happened either, as I've not used FSE mode for more than a year at this point - it used to work fine for me.

I've tried MPC-HC as well as JRiver now, and it's happening there too.
Do you have a small sample for that so we can verify? I also am using an Nvidia GPU. Because I have never encountered such a thing and I am using fullscreen exclusive almost exclusively.

I am using a GTX 580 and 331.65 WHQL drivers.

[huhn]

i can still reproduce this bug: http://abload.de/img/resizingbug0fsot.png

and i completely reinstalled the pc since the last time i posted about this.

it only happens with an nvdia card (an 760) with lanczos 8 ar the hd 4000 is not affected

[madshi]

Good work! Everything is fine now. Thanks.
Thanks for your help in locating the bug!

Hello, i've found a problem with brightness (too high) while playing a file, problem which i traced back to build 0.85.4, 0.85.3 seems fine. attached a sample here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/dfuqnc
Thank you!
Thanks for figuring out which version introduced the problem. That might be helpful, but first I need more information. On a quick check the sample seems to play fine here. Are you using software or hardware decoding? If you're using hardware decoding, please check whether the same problem also occurs with software decoding. Can you please post a screenshot of the "too high brightness" with the sample you've uploaded?

4. Hit custom hotkey again, used arrows to move along, change some values - then when I hit F2, Zoom changed to audio mode.

I do note that only the first time I try and change some values, the 'F2' in the madVR OSD displays. Second and subsequent times, it does not (which is why Zoom enters audio mode, madVR is not attempting to intercept that F2 key). I don't know why madVR does not show the F2 prompt the second and subsequent times.
The F2 key only works (and only has any purpose) if madVR displays it in the OSD. If madVR doesn't display it, it is also not accepted. The F2 is only accepted if you changed something which is worth saving. The custom debanding settings work differently than everything else. They're always automatically saved, and to a different place than all other settings. So F2 will not be shown if you change custom debanding settings. Really, the custom debanding settings are a hack I implemented because several people asked for it, but I think it will not be used by the majority of users in the future, that's why I didn't invest the time to implement a "nicely", with F2 etc.[/QUOTE]

It's a lot easier spotting changes when you can enable and disable rather than running through all presets.
That may be true, but adding a further toggle would make the settings dialog more complicated, and I don't like to do that, unless there's a very good reason for it. Turning debanding on/off all the time to try spotting changes doesn't sound like something a typical user would do.

I got crashes for 0.86.10, 0.86.11, deband13, as well as deband14.

Okay, I sent a report. Can't confirm if it went through or not, however.
Is your report the one with the text "opening mp4 file, does this every time but other files seems to work ok"? If so, the crash is somehow related to DXVA. Probably turning DXVA off will fix the crash. Not sure why the crash occurs, though. Maybe updating or reinstalling the drivers, or reinstalling D3D9 would help?

Does debanding only work when using the internal decoding?
There is no madVR feature that is limited to only work when using the internal decoders. Except of course decoding.

@madshi: There is one minor problem with subtitles in MPC-HC related to this "fading" feature. Basically subtitle blinks.
Oh yeah, I understand the problem. If a fade in/out is detected, madVR has to go back 5 frames and rerender them, which also means the ISR has to go back in time 5 frames in rerender them, too. The ISR doesn't like that, it usually stutters for a bit when doing such a thing. This problem does not occur with any other subtitle renderer. I don't think there's anything I can do about it, except add an option to not go back those 5 frames. In that case the higher debanding strength would affect the whole fade in/out - with the exception of the first 5 frames. But I'm somewhat reluctant to add an option for a misbehaviour of the ISR.

How it should look:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/roadmrin5.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/roadmrin5.jpg)

What often happens when switching between fullscreen and windowed mode:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/outlinesfvkns.jpg (http://www.abload.de/img/outlinesfvkns.jpg)

Probably not the exact frame as I just hit pause, but you get the idea.
It doesn't happen every time, but does happen often, and disappears after a few seconds. (I guess once the queues are full again?)
Is this a new problem only occuring with the latest test builds? Or does this occur with the current official release, too? I've never seen anything like that on my PC. I somehow doubt it's my fault, but what do I know. The problem is: Without being able to reproduce the problem, there's probably not much I can do about it.

Well that's concerning, it's 100% reproducible herre. I'm not sure when this change happened either, as I've not used FSE mode for more than a year at this point - it used to work fine for me.

I've tried MPC-HC as well as JRiver now, and it's happening there too.
Do you have another PC you could double check this on? Maybe I didn't do exactly what you did. Maybe if I knew the exact steps you're taking and the exact settings you're using, maybe I could reproduce it, too? If you think there's a good chance of that, please feel free to create a bug entry in the madVR bug tracker.

Is there any way to customize the debanding settings in the newer builds, without editing the registry?
Yes, define a custom keyboard shortcut for "debanding custom settings", press it, then use the arrow keys to modify the parameters.

I'm sorry. I didn't get it. I still get this "opaque black box" when smooth motion is enabled. Is it possible to fix this? Or is this "alpha blending in 16bit" required for smooth motion and there is nothing you can do? My GPU is GeForce 9600GT.
If this only happens with smooth motion enabled then it might be a bug which I could maybe fix. Or not. I don't know. Please report it to the madVR bug tracker.

I've seen this effect as well, but usually after leaving a video paused and going to bed instead. I don't use FSE mode that much because I'm used to multitasking. My GPU is a GeForce GTX 580 and I'm using the 331.65 drivers.
Did this also happen with older drivers?

i can still reproduce this bug: http://abload.de/img/resizingbug0fsot.png
And I've not seen anyone else reporting this. Still not sure if it might be a hardware issue. Or a driver issue. In any case, Lanczos 8 is not recommended, anyway. I'll probably remove non-recommended scaling algorithm in the final v1.0 build. That's still quite some time away, though.

[6233638]

Is this a new problem only occuring with the latest test builds? Or does this occur with the current official release, too? I've never seen anything like that on my PC. I somehow doubt it's my fault, but what do I know. The problem is: Without being able to reproduce the problem, there's probably not much I can do about it.I thought it was related to the debanding test builds, but it seems that is not the case. I'll post a bug on the tracker - I think I've found a way to reproduce it.

Yes, define a custom keyboard shortcut for "debanding custom settings", press it, then use the arrow keys to modify the parameters.Thanks, I missed that.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Did this also happen with older drivers?
Not sure - I do know it only started 'recently', but I don't really have a reliable way to reproduce it except 'pause the video for a few hours', which doesn't make for easy testing. The only reason I mentioned it is that the effect I see does look more or less identical to 6233638's screenshot.

[Demonik]

Ok, did some more tests, it's the same with hardware and software decoding. But while i was testing the madvrdeband version i noticed something else, if i put madVRdeband14 files in a clean install of 0.86.3 it works ok, but if i put them in a clean install of 0.86.4 the brightness issue occurs. here's a screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/talHMqm.jpg

[turbojet]

i can still reproduce this bug: http://abload.de/img/resizingbug0fsot.png

and i completely reinstalled the pc since the last time i posted about this.

it only happens with an nvdia card (an 760) with lanczos 8 ar the hd 4000 is not affected

I get the same sort of artifacts with ivtc on 2 nvidia cards but it's fine on HD3000, wonder if they are related.

[madshi]

Ok, did some more tests, it's the same with hardware and software decoding. But while i was testing the madvrdeband version i noticed something else, if i put madVRdeband14 files in a clean install of 0.86.3 it works ok, but if i put them in a clean install of 0.86.4 the brightness issue occurs.
Weird. Can you try to find out which one of the 0.86.4 files is responsible?

[Demonik]

my bad on the last one, madvrdeband doesn't load with the files from 0.86.3 or before cuz of the renamed madHcNet.dll that's why it 'looked' ok but i was switching them so fast i didn't even notice it's not loading and defaulted to other renderer. back to the previous report of 0.85.3 as beeing the last working one

[madshi]

Please double check the input levels (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+i). Are they set correctly? And this problem only occurs with this one video? Which decoder are you using? DXVA deinterlacing is turned off, correct? Also double check that the Media Player and madVR brightness and levels controls are all set to neutral values.

[Demonik]

It's beeing detected as TV, all controls are neutral, deinterlace is off, i'm using lav filters and mpc-hc, tried it in potplayer with same results. yes i've only seen it with this file happening so far.

[XeoneR]

How to completely disable those blasted popups
about timestamps or filenames in the left upper corner?

Can mad resemble the same behavior as haali?
Halve the initial frame size if the source res is higher than the display.

[Ap3 n1nja]

Is your report the one with the text "opening mp4 file, does this every time but other files seems to work ok"? If so, the crash is somehow related to DXVA. Probably turning DXVA off will fix the crash. Not sure why the crash occurs, though. Maybe updating or reinstalling the drivers, or reinstalling D3D9 would help?
Nope. The report I sent should have text along the lines of "Simply trying to play the file." I should have been more descriptive. :(

It's the mkv file in my prior post, if you happen to have missed it: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1652373#post1652373

[omarank]

Hi Madshi, the debanding feature of madVR looks really very impressive. I was trying the latest test build for debanding (madVRdeband14) and encountered a bug. I get a dropped frame for every fade in/ out while using low as default strength and high as strength during fading. This happens only when smooth motion FRC is also active. When I see the frame drops, all the queues look just fine and I don't see anything suspicious. My queues are set as: CPU - 24, GPU - 16 and frames in advance - 12. If I keep the fading strength same as default debanding strength, there are no dropped frames.

[MistahBonzai]

If I keep the fading strength same as default debanding strength, there are no dropped frames.

Same Here. Was using a local copy of an Emily Shephard video (https://vimeo.com/64036522) (monochrome with lotsa fading) and noted the frame drops. It drove me crazy 'til I disabled debanding. Then narrowed it down to using medium for both settings.

[madshi]

It's beeing detected as TV, all controls are neutral, deinterlace is off, i'm using lav filters and mpc-hc, tried it in potplayer with same results. yes i've only seen it with this file happening so far.
Very weird. I don't see anything wrong with this file and it plays with correct brightness on my PC. Do you have any other video related DShow filters in the chain except LAV Video Decoder and madVR? Do you have LAV set to default options? Can I get a screenshot with the madVR debug OSD (Ctrl+J) on? Right now I've no idea what's going on there...

How to completely disable those blasted popups about timestamps or filenames in the left upper corner?
These are from MPC-HC. Maybe there's an option in MPC-HC to disable those? I don't know.

Can mad resemble the same behavior as haali?
Halve the initial frame size if the source res is higher than the display.
It's technically possible, but I don't like it, so no, sorry. This is really a feature the media player should offer. It's not the video renderer's job. Haali implements this by lying to the media player. Basically Haali tells the media player that the video really only has half the resolution, which is not true. That's the wrong approach, IMHO. Ask the MPC-HC developers to offer this feature. If MPC-HC asks madVR to display the video in half the size, madVR will obey.

Nope. The report I sent should have text along the lines of "Simply trying to play the file." I should have been more descriptive. :(

It's the mkv file in my prior post, if you happen to have missed it: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1652373#post1652373
Unfortunately that sample plays fine on my PC. Can't reproduce any crashes here. I can't find your bug report. Got a couple of reports in the recent days, but none with such a description. Maybe it would be best to PM the bug report to me.

I get a dropped frame for every fade in/ out while using low as default strength and high as strength during fading. This happens only when smooth motion FRC is also active. When I see the frame drops, all the queues look just fine and I don't see anything suspicious. My queues are set as: CPU - 24, GPU - 16 and frames in advance - 12. If I keep the fading strength same as default debanding strength, there are no dropped frames.
Same Here.
I can reproduce the problem. However, playback still seems perfectly smooth on my PC. It's possible that this is a false alarm in the debug OSD. I'll investigate.

[JEEB]

It's technically possible, but I don't like it, so no, sorry. This is really a feature the media player should offer. It's not the video renderer's job. Haali implements this by lying to the media player. Basically Haali tells the media player that the video really only has half the resolution, which is not true. That's the wrong approach, IMHO. Ask the MPC-HC developers to offer this feature. If MPC-HC asks madVR to display the video in half the size, madVR will obey.
Just for general information, MPC-HC (and most probably -BE) has this already. View→Options→Playback→Auto-zoom, and the fitting (if larger) setting most probably does what one wants.

And yes, this most definitely is not something a renderer should implement :) .

[Demonik]

Nope, nothing else in the chain, lav splitter > lav video decoder, default settings.
0.85.3: http://i.imgur.com/U8VW4Hy.png and 0.85.4: http://i.imgur.com/HSKyHD8.png

[madshi]

Just for general information, MPC-HC (and most probably -BE) has this already.
Oh, cool.

Nope, nothing else in the chain, lav splitter > lav video decoder, default settings.
0.85.3: http://i.imgur.com/U8VW4Hy.png and 0.85.4: http://i.imgur.com/HSKyHD8.png
Ok, I've compared the 0.85.3 and 0.85.4 source code and the only things that changed that I could imagine making a difference are the following:

(1) DXVA related stuff. You don't use DXVA scaling, do you?
(2) File name tags. Do you use those?
(3) Custom pixel shader stuff. Do you use those? Try switching the pixel shader related "trade quality for performance" options. Does that make a difference?

Other than that I don't know what could be going on here...

[XeoneR]

How to completely disable those blasted popups
about timestamps or filenames in the left upper corner?


These are from MPC-HC. Maybe there's an option in MPC-HC to disable those? I don't know.

Hmm indeed, though i haven't seen them for ages. Haali never renders these.


Can mad resemble the same behavior as haali?


It's technically possible, but I don't like it, so no, sorry. This is really a feature the media player should offer.

Ok that's clear.

I'm switching haali to mad. The cpu load is pretty high.
Almost can't handle rendering of a full bd. What would be the most perf optimized settings?
Scaling algos should be the most demanding? Right? But even switching these to gpu
and applying video frame normal (w/o scaling?) i still get the same high cpu load.

[Demonik]

Tried switching scaling and performance options, the same. but i did find one option that makes a difference. If i set RGB output level to TV in both versions, it looks the same in both.
screens: http://i.imgur.com/TRZDWbI.png and http://i.imgur.com/zIll0XB.png

[madshi]

I'm switching haali to mad. The cpu load is pretty high.
Almost can't handle rendering of a full bd. What would be the most perf optimized settings?
Scaling algos should be the most demanding? Right? But even switching these to gpu
and applying video frame normal (w/o scaling?) i still get the same high cpu load.
Most stuff is performed on the GPU by madVR. So switching most of the options doesn't make any difference to CPU performance. Forced film mode is pretty much the only madVR algorithm that runs on the CPU at the moment. So I fear unless you're using Forced film mode, there's not much you can do to lower CPU consumption when using madVR. Have you tried the different rendering modes (windowed, overlay, fullscreen exclusive mode)? Is the CPU consumption equally high in all of them? Maybe in the long run I can lower CPU consumption a bit. I don't know. But at the moment my priority is on other things...

Tried switching scaling and performance options, the same. but i did find one option that makes a difference. If i set RGB output level to TV in both versions, it looks the same in both.
RGB output levels in the GPU? In the decoder? In madVR? Why did you have them set to different levels?

[Demonik]

In madVR. They were both running with PC levels (0.85.3 and 0.85.4) when i switched them to TV i've noticed the issue doesn't occur. So versions starting from 0.85.4 behave badly only if the output is set to PC. Starting with 0.86.4 TV levels are also affected. Hope this helps?

[madshi]

This just confuses me even more. So running both with TV output levels the image looks the same with 0.85.3 and 0.85.4? But running both with PC output levels, you get different brightness? This doesn't make any sense to me at all. Can you please make screenshots with 0.85.3, 0.85.4 and 0.86.4, each with both TV and PC levels? So 6 screenshots overall? To be honest, I'm near to giving up on this, because it doesn't make ANY sense to me whatsoever, from a technical point of view. Especially since you say it only occurs with one specific video, which makes it even more weird.

[andybkma]

Win7 SP1, Zoom Player Max, mVR Deband 14, OPtimus Graphics HD4000 with Nvidia 650M

Been using mVR Deband 14 since yesterday and I have noticed now that about 50% of the time when coming out of FSE back into windowed mode I get the following error code displayed in the top left corner of ZP:

"madVR reports: resetting Direct3D device failed 8876017c"

I press stop on ZP and the error resets itself (error dialogue disappears) and ZP (and mVR) can be used again. How can I get you an error report? It doesn't duplicate all the time...

[Werewolfy]

@madshi
I did some tests with your latested build. The low preset is fine. nonGradientPenalty removal concerned me a little at first but since you decreased Gradient (or MidDif now), it seems we have the same result here. Anyway, after you created AngleBoost I didn't really feel that nonGradientPenalty was very useful.

I have one little complain about the medium preset. MaxAngle at 0.22 is a little too high for me. Did you find a video where MaxAngle at 0.18 or even 0.20 was too low? It's true that I had set MaxAngle at 0.25 for the high preset but it was only useful for bad videos. I don't think the medium preset needs this because we lose some details sometimes and this preset is too weak to make a difference for bad videos, MaxAngle at 0.22 doesn't seem to change anything for debanding here.

The high preset seems fine to me. I was a little surprised you desactivated AngelBoost here but after making some tests, it makes sense.

I think "Artifact removal" is not a really good name for this function. I understand why you don't call it "debanding" but I don't know... "Postprocessing", "Filter" or even "Postprocessing filter" or "Smoothing" doesn't fit more than "Artifact removal"?

I also tested your new feature called "strength during fade in/out" . If you set it on high, when you have a fade in/out your lose a lot of details during this short period of time. The fade in/out seems to last a little bit longer because details make more time to appear. IMHO, medium seems a better choice by default.

[madshi]

Been using mVR Deband 14 since yesterday and I have noticed now that about 50% of the time when coming out of FSE back into windowed mode I get the following error code displayed in the top left corner of ZP:

"madVR reports: resetting Direct3D device failed 8876017c"
And this does not happen with the official release build?

I have one little complain about the medium preset. MaxAngle at 0.22 is a little too high for me. Did you find a video where MaxAngle at 0.18 or even 0.20 was too low? It's true that I had set MaxAngle at 0.25 for the high preset but it was only useful for bad videos. I don't think the medium preset needs this because we lose some details sometimes and this preset is too weak to make a difference for bad videos, MaxAngle at 0.22 doesn't seem to change anything for debanding here.
I've no problem at all lowering the MaxAngle for the medium preset. Which value would you prefer?

I think "Artifact removal" is not a really good name for this function. I understand why you don't call it "debanding" but I don't know... "Postprocessing", "Filter" or even "Postprocessing filter" or "Smoothing" doesn't fit more than "Artifact removal"?
I don't want to use one separate settings page for every algorithm. Otherwise I would have chosen "debanding" as the page name. Some day I might add other algorithms, e.g. deblocking or deringing, or things like that. Or even noise reduction, as suggested by some. I don't know if and when I might add those algorithms. But if I do, all of them fit nicely under the name "artifact removal", because all of those algorithms try to fix/repair/improve a bad source or a bad encoding. On the other hand, sharpening is something completely different. And if I ever add sharpening or detail enhancement processing, that would get its own page in the settings dialog. All the algorithms on the "artifact removal" page will be performed *before* scaling. Sharpening and detail enhancement will probably be performed *after* scaling. It's simply something completely different. If you have a better suggestion for the artifact removal settings page name, let me know. But "post processing" doesn't fit, because that would apply to sharpening, too. And "smoothing" is specific to debanding, so it's a bad name, too.

I also tested your new feature called "strength during fade in/out" . If you set it on high, when you have a fade in/out your lose a lot of details during this short period of time. The fade in/out seems to last a little bit longer because details make more time to appear. IMHO, medium seems a better choice by default.
The fade in/out detection should not last a single frame too long. I'm pretty sure it works correctly. Please double check.

I would be ok with choosing medium as default, if the majority of "expert users" here agree on that. Personally, I think "high" is the better choice, because IMHO during fade ins/outs lack of banding artifacts is more important than losing a tiny bit of detail, but that's just my personal opinion, of course. I'll bow to the majority vote.

[andybkma]

And this does not happen with the official release build?


Nope, never got that error till yesterday when started using the deband version, 13 then 14. Hopefully I can get the problem to duplicate more frequently...

[madshi]

Does reducing the number of windowed mode backbuffers and/or the number of exclusive mode prepresented frames help in any way?

[Werewolfy]

I've no problem at all lowering the MaxAngle for the medium preset. Which value would you prefer?


I would set it at 0.18.



I don't want to use one separate settings page for every algorithm. Otherwise I would have chosen "debanding" as the page name. Some day I might add other algorithms, e.g. deblocking or deringing, or things like that. Or even noise reduction, as suggested by some. I don't know if and when I might add those algorithms. But if I do, all of them fit nicely under the name "artifact removal", because all of those algorithms try to fix/repair/improve a bad source or a bad encoding. On the other hand, sharpening is something completely different. And if I ever add sharpening or detail enhancement processing, that would get its own page in the settings dialog. All the algorithms on the "artifact removal" page will be performed *before* scaling. Sharpening and detail enhancement will probably be performed *after* scaling. It's simply something completely different. If you have a better suggestion for the artifact removal settings page name, let me know. But "post processing" doesn't fit, because that would apply to sharpening, too. And "smoothing" is specific to debanding, so it's a bad name, too.


Ok I understand why you've chosen this name. I don't have a suggestion right now but I will think about it. Anyway it's not very important.


The fade in/out detection should not last a single frame too long. I'm pretty sure it works correctly. Please double check.

I would be ok with choosing medium as default, if the majority of "expert users" here agree on that. Personally, I think "high" is the better choice, because IMHO during fade ins/outs lack of banding artifacts is more important than losing a tiny bit of detail, but that's just my personal opinion, of course. I'll bow to the majority vote.

On this sample posted earlier, I find the face takes longer to appear when high is selected. Maybe it's a too extreme example? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16254258/test/bandingfest/Rurouni_Kenshin_-_01.mkv

[Demonik]

This just confuses me even more. So running both with TV output levels the image looks the same with 0.85.3 and 0.85.4? But running both with PC output levels, you get different brightness? This doesn't make any sense to me at all. Can you please make screenshots with 0.85.3, 0.85.4 and 0.86.4, each with both TV and PC levels? So 6 screenshots overall? To be honest, I'm near to giving up on this, because it doesn't make ANY sense to me whatsoever, from a technical point of view. Especially since you say it only occurs with one specific video, which makes it even more weird.

That is correct. screens here:

0.85.3PC (http://i.imgur.com/yrBMxjA.jpg) 0.85.4PC (http://i.imgur.com/7SttAhu.jpg) 0.86.4PC (http://i.imgur.com/QHp41W0.jpg)
0.85.3TV (http://i.imgur.com/ZPx7Ldq.jpg) 0.85.4TV (http://i.imgur.com/NaSK5Fw.jpg) 0.86.4TV (http://i.imgur.com/aqfYMAF.jpg)

[madshi]

And 0.86.3 behaves like 0.85.4? The only way that makes sense is if the "source black level" and/or "source white level" controls would be set to some unexpected values. These controls can be modified by defining custom key shortcuts in the madVR settings dialog. Or by using file name tagging. I can't imagine you accidently modified the controls, and the file name "sample002.mkv" doesn't contain any file name tags. So it all still makes no sense to me. Try assigning a keyboard shortcut "source color controls - reset" and press that. Does that change anything?

What is the full file name and file path of this video file on your PC?

Are you using any custom pixel shaders?

[madshi]

I would set it at 0.18.
Ok.

On this sample posted earlier, I find the face takes longer to appear when high is selected. Maybe it's a too extreme example? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16254258/test/bandingfest/Rurouni_Kenshin_-_01.mkv
It's a pretty mean example, but I can see what you mean. When frame stepping through the fade in, the first few frames are quite washed out with the "high" setting. The remaining frames of the fade in show little difference between "low" and "high", though. And in motion I'm not sure I see much of a difference, either. There's probably always a sample which works bad with a different setting. I could probably find a sample which with "medium" setting would still show banding during a fade in/out while it wouldn't show banding with "high". With such a sample "high" would look better. So which is the better overall setting? I'm not really sure.

Opinions from other users welcome, as well.