madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[THX-UltraII]

I thought the 4xxx series was only HDMI 1.1 or HDMI 1.2? Are you sure that the 4xxx hardware can actually stream TrueHD and DTS-HD? LPCM yes, but TrueHD? Not even all HDMI 1.3 hardware can do it, AFAIK.

Albain is working on it right now but it seems that there a good chance the 4xxx series will support bitstreaming. With one of the beta's there are already some reports by users of
4xxx-cards that the 'True-HD' signal lights up on theri receiver. Only no sound is heard but again, Albain is working on that.

[Weirdo]

Has anyone tried the Nvidia 9500GT along with Cuda decoding? Can it handle madVR?

[madshi]

Albain is working on it right now but it seems that there a good chance the 4xxx series will support bitstreaming. With one of the beta's there are already some reports by users of
4xxx-cards that the 'True-HD' signal lights up on theri receiver. Only no sound is heard but again, Albain is working on that.
Well, that would be *very* cool!

[THX-UltraII]

Well, that would be *very* cool!

YUP! I know! I checking this forum 10 times in an hour to see if he came up with news! Check the FFdshow thread, this will keep you updated.

[Anima123]

I will check this thread at least 1 times in an hour since mandshi is back on working. BTW, I'm always looking forward to your next version that as promised can solve most stability issues.

[namaiki]

Has anyone tried the Nvidia 9500GT along with Cuda decoding? Can it handle madVR?
I can tell you that my GeForce 9600M GT (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9600M-GT.9449.0.html) stutters with CUDA + madVR, but I don't know how that compares to the desktop version.

[Weirdo]

I can tell you that my GeForce 9600M GT (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9600M-GT.9449.0.html) stutters with CUDA + madVR, but I don't know how that compares to the desktop version.
Thanks, I want to replace the ATI 2600 (unusable with madVR) but not quite sure how powerful a gpu is required here.
Guess I should aim for a higher-end (=noisy) card. The 9500 GT (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9500gt_us.html) seems more powerful than the 9600M GT (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9600m_gt_us.html).

[namaiki]

Only slightly more powerful:
thing - 9600M GT - 9500 GT
pipelines - 32 - 32
core - 500 - 550
memory - 800 - 800
shaders - 1250 - 1400
bus - 128 - 128

The solution is to simply not use CUDA.. :P

I still use CoreAVC, but have CUDA unchecked.

[pirlouy]

Are you sure that it's Overlay Mixer that is correct and all the other renderers that are incorrect? Maybe it's the other way round? You know, every display playback chain has its own delay values. Most displays add some delay, some receivers, too. So it's really difficult to find out who is responsible for a given audio sync mismatch.
In my case, I'm sure it's all these renderers with all their jobs which display videos with delay. Like Overlay mixer doesn't have jobs, it is always perfectly synchronized with audio.

But as I said, you perceive this delay only when you're with a 24Hz display. I understand it's not problematic since everybody use 48, 50, 72, 75, 96, 120 Hz and even a popular renderer like EVR from Microsoft is concerned. But as I know you like perfection, one day, I think you'll notice that, and maybe you will be able to add a delay for audio. :-)

[yesgrey]

How do we generate the custom gamma curves for the 3DLut?
We will talk about this when I release it...
So, what graphics card is recommended? 4770? Wait for a mid level 5xxx series? Powerstrip support is mandatory for me.
Mine is a GF8600GT and it runs fine, although is a bit on the edge...
I don't miss powerstrip. I have created my own tool to calculate my timings and create the resolutions with nvidia drivers. I have already promised several times to post it, but I haven't yet found the time for it...

stutters with CUDA + madVR
Don't use both, that's not a good idea. You have two applications "fighting" for you graphics card resources. If they are scarce, that would not be a good thing.;)

[pie1394]

Don't use both, that's not a good idea. You have two applications "fighting" for you graphics card resources. If they are scarce, that would not be a good thing.;)

With MSI Lightning GTX260+ (1792MB version), it just works fine for CoreAVC + CUDA (VP2) + most H.264 video clips + madVR with Lancozs4 scaling mode + dithering. It is still almost 2 times as fast as G80-based 8800GTS with madVR's usage on the same settings.

In fact I cannot imagine how powerful HD5870(RV870-based) or GT300 could be for madVR's usage.

[yesgrey]

With MSI Lightning GTX260+ (1792MB version)
This graphic card does not have scarce resources, it has plenty of them.;) but I believe something like a 9600GT can handle both also. Can anyone confirm?

[leeperry]

I don' think the CUDA+madVR stuttering problem is due to GPU usage, as CUDA uses the separate VP2 engine anyway...it's more like CUDA create latency(on high bitrate 1080p BD) that tends to make mVR tear...on my system at least, 720p is fine but BD tends to tear(fixed w/ software decoding). I have a 96SP 384MB GDDR3 GF9600GSO(rebadged G92 8800GS) on an o/c Q6600

[yesgrey]

I don' think the CUDA+madVR stuttering problem is due to GPU usage, as CUDA uses the separate VP2 engine anyway...
I've talked about graphics card resources, which means GPU and memory, and both use it. Even if CUDA uses primarily VP2, it also needs to use the GPU for the memory transfers.

[leeperry]

I've talked about graphics card resources, which means GPU and memory, and both use it. Even if CUDA uses primarily VP2, it also needs to use the GPU for the memory transfers.
I had the same tearing problem w/ HR(in RGB32HQ)...if someone can confirm that many high bitrate BD's work fine in mVR w/ CUDA, that will be a more tangible proof ;)

CUDA is nice because it puts the h264 decoding load on the GPU, but it also noticeably increases the latency...reason why I gave up on CoreAVC CUDA
Powerstrip support is mandatory for me.
everything pstrip does can be done in the nvidia drivers, and at least it's got native support...pstrip is reverse engineered, and it shows ;)

[Weirdo]

I'd really like to find a silent card who can handle madVR with Cuda flexibility and high bit-rate files... :)

[sucht]

I don't miss powerstrip. I have created my own tool to calculate my timings and create the resolutions with nvidia drivers. I have already promised several times to post it, but I haven't yet found the time for it...


please release it ;)
i can't get powerstrip to work with my nvidia GF :(
maybe with your tool it will work out nicely.

thanks!

[Mark_A_W]

everything pstrip does can be done in the nvidia drivers, and at least it's got native support...pstrip is reverse engineered, and it shows ;)


I run a custom Nvidia res on my TV htpc. The Nvidia custom res settings do work, but they are not as capable as powerstrip.

With Powerstrip you can:

- Create shortcuts to different refresh rates at the same res

- Drive the resolution selection via reclock (is there a way to do this with an nvidia card?)

- get 3 decimal places accuracy (can't remember offhand if nvidia will do it)

- AMD just seems to be more HTPC focused - powerstrip support, HDMI audio, etc. But my Nvidia card does work (and it's the only card that works with XBMC properly with a custom res).


I have both, I'm not biased. But I want my next card in the "main" HTPC to be the best choice....I'll get what madshi gets probably ;)

I think we need a new thread "madVR Hardware Discussion".

[yesgrey]

get 3 decimal places accuracy (can't remember offhand if nvidia will do it)
To be correct, you can get full accuracy, the exact theoretical value. Powerstrip includes a tool very similar to mine that calculates the exact theoretical refresh rates.

[leeperry]

The Nvidia custom res settings do work, but they are not as capable as powerstrip.
dc.exe -width=1280 -height=768 -refresh=48 -quiet -apply
http://thumbnails19.imagebam.com/5215/03bb8f52141125.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/03bb8f52141125)http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/5215/9797b452141126.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/9797b452141126)http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5215/fae48752141129.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/fae48752141129)

exactly the same! but better actually, because no need for any resident app, and it's all natively supported by the manufacter himself...no need for all these retarded resident apps written in Visual Basic(MOM.exe/CCC.exe)/pstrip.exe/the pstrip NT service and the two ATI Ati2evxx.exe services...now that's 5 resident .exe cloaking your system against *ZERO* on nvidia :devil:

anyway, to stay on topic...I just watched a 2H movie in 23.976@96Hz and it was dead smooth, not a single dropped frame. I will try 48Hz later this week, but the jitter bs in HR completely put me off using my HTPC...mVR in KMP might very well be the antidote, <clicky, clicky> and it works http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/zoubidawa.gif

[KoD]

Has anyone tried the Nvidia 9500GT along with Cuda decoding? Can it handle madVR?I can tell you that my GeForce 9600M GT (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9600M-GT.9449.0.html) stutters with CUDA + madVR, but I don't know how that compares to the desktop version.

I'm also using a 9600M GT, now on Win 7. On XP, I've been using v0.9 and playback was good (with CUDA on, obviously), except for the jerky pans, but on Win 7 I've only tried v0.11 and it's unusable with the same settings that worked nicely on XP. Also, the lag at the beginning of playback that was introduced with v0.10 and madshi said it was fixed in 0.11, is still there in 0.11 just that it doesn't take half a minute anymore.

Right now I'm using Haali's renderer, it works perfectly with CUDA and Aero enabled and vsfilter for subtitles rendering, smooth playback, no dropped frames whatsoever, the buffers are always full, playback is perfect even with other windows transparent over the video player (which happens to be ZoomPlayer).

[madshi]

In my case, I'm sure it's all these renderers with all their jobs which display videos with delay. Like Overlay mixer doesn't have jobs, it is always perfectly synchronized with audio.
It seems to me that you're just guessing here. Sure, Overlay mixer has less work to do than the other renderers, but that doesn't really have anything to do with whether audio is in sync or not.

But as I said, you perceive this delay only when you're with a 24Hz display.
I do have a 24Hz display, as have many other madVR users.

I have both, I'm not biased. But I want my next card in the "main" HTPC to be the best choice....I'll get what madshi gets probably ;)

I think we need a new thread "madVR Hardware Discussion".
Personally, I'd love to just get a really powerful GPU (e.g. the new AMD 5870) and be done with it. Unfortunately the GPU has to be content with passive cooling in my fully passively cooled HTPC. So that makes GPU choices much more limited. I guess I'll wait for the AMD 4670 replacement (Q1 2010) or maybe even for NVidias next generation (Q1/2 2010). A single slot 5750 would be sweet (but maybe too hot?)...

I'm also using a 9600M GT, now on Win 7. On XP, I've been using v0.9 and playback was good (with CUDA on, obviously), except for the jerky pans, but on Win 7 I've only tried v0.11 and it's unusable with the same settings that worked nicely on XP. Also, the lag at the beginning of playback that was introduced with v0.10 and madshi said it was fixed in 0.11, is still there in 0.11 just that it doesn't take half a minute anymore.
How long is the lag at the beginning for you now?

Performance wise I've always said that for budget GPUs there's a big improvement in store once I implement fullscreen exclusive mode. I'm quite sure that your 9600M GT will work nicely with madVR in fullscreen exclusive mode. v0.10 and v0.11 are probably more targetted at users with reasonably powerful GPUs.

Right now I'm using Haali's renderer, it works perfectly with CUDA and Aero enabled and vsfilter for subtitles rendering, smooth playback, no dropped frames whatsoever, the buffers are always full, playback is perfect even with other windows transparent over the video player (which happens to be ZoomPlayer).
If Haali's renderer had done the trick for me, I'd never have started work on madVR. Unfortunately for me Haali's renderer tears, has incorrect colors, ghost lines when scaling and doesn't properly dither down to 8bit RGB. You can work around some of that, but I never got it to stop tearing for me, which obviously was a total deal killer...

[namaiki]

KoD, please tell me, what is the video resolution and what is the display resolution that you are or was using?

If I play something with CUDA that is 720P and have my screen also at 720P, I can also use CUDA and MadVR at the same time (0.10, 0.11), but if I need to resize from 720P to 1080P(native for my screen), then the above combination will freeze up every so often (lag like hell), but of course MadVR by itself is fine. I also run Windows 7 with Forceware 186.88.

[nijiko]

When enable the 3dlut, madVR 0.11 will crash. (Never before.)

VideoCrad:GF6600 128M
Driver:191.07 WHQL
MPC 1300
XP SP3 with all Updates

[Andy o]

Madshi, do you think using MPC-HC's internal sub renderer would be possible in a future version of madVR?

[adam777]

Hello all,
Newbe question ahead, so please behave :)
I'm running MPC-HC (latest x86 version from xvidvideo.ru), on Dell Studio 1555 which is equipped with Mobility Radeon HD4570 512MB card, P8600 processor, 4GB ram, and windows 7 x64 RTM.
I'm using the DivX H.264 decoder due to it being much faster than FFDShow's.
Question is, will I be able to use madVR as a renderer on my machine, and will I gain any benefit from using over, say, EVR custom, considering my screen is 1080p 15.6"?
Thanks in advance, Adam.

[pirlouy]

@Andy o: madshi says it is planned.

@adam777: I think you should just compare all renderers and choose the one which suits you better. Yes you can use madVR with your computer.

@madshi: if you don't perceive audio delay, then there's nothing you can do. :-)
As you said, maybe it's my computer (even if I don't think so). But maybe you'll notice this one day and you will have a solution.

[adam777]

Hello all,
Newbe question ahead, so please behave :)
I'm running MPC-HC (latest x86 version from xvidvideo.ru), on Dell Studio 1555 which is equipped with Mobility Radeon HD4570 512MB card, P8600 processor, 4GB ram, and windows 7 x64 RTM.
I'm using the DivX H.264 decoder due to it being much faster than FFDShow's.
Question is, will I be able to use madVR as a renderer on my machine, and will I gain any benefit from using over, say, EVR custom, considering my screen is 1080p 15.6"?
Thanks in advance, Adam.

Well, one question is answered - it seems like divx h.264 decoder and madVR is a no-go, I guess the decoder doesn't output YV12 as needed.
Anyone knows of a way around it, Divx's decoder is much more efficient than FFDShow's one... :thanks:

[leeperry]

Madshi, do you think using MPC-HC's internal sub renderer would be possible in a future version of madVR?
indeed, subs support would be really fantastic :o
if you don't perceive audio delay, then there's nothing you can do. :-)
As you said, maybe it's my computer (even if I don't think so). But maybe you'll notice this one day and you will have a solution.
how about adding delay in either ffdshow audio or video? I've never had any delay issue in any VR.
Well, one question is answered - it seems like divx h.264 decoder and madVR is a no-go, I guess the decoder doesn't output YV12 as needed.
Anyone knows of a way around it, Divx's decoder is much more efficient than FFDShow's one...
care to run some benchmarks w/ timecodec Vs ffdshow-mt, just to clear things up? I always thought it'd output YV12 tbh....I'm quite sure it does actually, as it worked w/ my YV12-only Avisynth scripts in ffdshow.

[pirlouy]

how about adding delay in either ffdshow audio or video? I've never had any delay issue in any VR.
This delay is not the same between videos. I can add delay in ffdshow or MPC but it's easier to use 50 or 60Hz and not perceive this delay. :-)

Maybe it has something to do with the fact I use motherboard sound chipset. I'll do test when I get an AV receiver (not soon I think).

[leeperry]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact I use motherboard sound chipset.
update to the latest drivers from the chip manufacturer maybe, Realtek likes to release updates on a weekly basis.

[adam777]

care to run some benchmarks w/ timecodec Vs ffdshow-mt, just to clear things up? I always thought it'd output YV12 tbh....I'm quite sure it does actually, as it worked w/ my YV12-only Avisynth scripts in ffdshow.

I'm basing my conclusion on the simple fact, that when using DivX decoder and madVR in MPC-HC, when right clicking on a played movie, the "filters" menu shows "video filter" (or something of that sort). I think it's some kind of VMR.
This oppsed to using FFDShow (forcing YV12 output) and madVR, in which case, the filters menu shows "madVR video renderer" (or something of that sort).

Should there be a formal way to check DivX decoder output colorspace, do tell.

[leeperry]

Should there be a formal way to check DivX decoder output colorspace, do tell.
if you force ffdshow, it'll tell you the input colorspace

[adam777]

Sorry, leeperry, I'm loosing you.
As far as I understand, I'm using one decoder (either FFDShow or DivX) to feed a video renderer.
I've already seen FFDShow works with madVR as expected (it outputs YV12 and madVR launched as expectesd), but the problem is I don't know, when using DivX, how to check which colorspace it outputs to the video renderer and I couldn't find a way how to set it.

[leeperry]

I hope you're more "losing" me than "loosing" me :D

in ffdshow config, at the bottom of the decoders settings select "all supported" for "raw video" and for "h264" select "disabled"...it will add ffdshow between the divx decoder and madVR, then you can look up the input colorspace.

anyway, it's really nice to work in YV12, I don't think I even need to o/c my Q6600 anymore...RGB32HQ was mandatory in HR as its REC601/709 are plain wrong, but o/c means higher energy bills and more heat/noise.

[adam777]

Losing, indeed :)
That's a nice trick... and it turns out that the DivX decoder is outputting YUY2.
If I understand correctly, in this configuration the DivX decoder is doing the actual decoding and FFDShow is used only for the colorspace conversion (YUY2->YV12), for feeding madVR.
Question is, do I gain the quality benefits of madVR renderer this way? (It seems, there's not much performance hit).

[leeperry]

you might wanna ask in the divx thread, maybe there's a registry key or something like that to force YV12...it should output YV12: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1182785&postcount=3

YV12>YUY2 is not lossy I think, but YUY2>YV12 is..

but run timecodec benchmarks, divx/ffmpeg-mt/core avc are tied up on most systems.

[adam777]

OK, thanks, I've opened a thread regarding the colorspace issue.
And judging by real life viewing, not timecodec benchmarks, divx performs much better for me comparing to ffmpeg-mt (unless I somehow manage to use it the wrong way...).

[Thunderbolt8]

Can you change refresh rate to 48Hz instead of 24Hz? Maybe that helps. Final fix will be fullscreen exclusive mode (not implemented yet).not to 48, but I changed it to 60Hz on my computer to which I connect to the screen and now tearing is gone (same 60Hz as my PC screen uses).

EDIT: or almost gone, theres still little vertical tearing in between, but not really much and all that horizontal tearing has gone.

[Grafisher]

This renderer is awesome, thanks!

I have just two minor issues to report (most likely reported previously):
When you pause the playback, the window is not repainted when needed, so you can easily erase it by another window. When switching between fullscreen and windowed mode, the video stutters briefly.

I use Zoom Player and Reclock, and these are confirmed to be madVR issues.

Otherwise, I tested it with many videos, and I have no performance or tearing problems (8600GTS). v0.10 has minor stability problems indeed.

[VHT]

Thanks Madshi for great renderer with awesome PQ. As said PQ is top notch and smooth, but I've got audio sync issues with 24hz display and Realtek chip SPDIF out. With 50hz and 60Hz everything is OK. With other renderers (EVR,HR,Overlay) audio is in sync also with 24hz 23,976fps material but not with MadVR. The amount of delay in audio varies,so it's impossible to fix it by delaying audio stream for instance 100ms in AC3filter.

(Using 32bit Vista SP2,8800gt with 185.85WHQL drivers,CoreAVC,KMplayer/MPC-HC)

[pirlouy]

@VHT: There are some similitudes with problem I mentioned earlier. Except I use Analog output (not spdif) and this delay is also present with other renderers except "overlay mixer". Maybe a problem with Realtek...

I use Win7

[Thunderbolt8]

This is probably a miscommunication between the decoder and madVR. The various decoders out there all behave slightly different. Sometimes if I adjust madVR to "understand" one decoder better, this breaks things with another decoder... :( So I'd suggest that you try out some other decoders. Some will probably work just fine. I might find a solution which works with all decoders at some time, but my focus is on other things right now.just to add, the same problem unfortunately also occurs with 1440x1080 interlaced H.264 files from BBC HD

[Weirdo]

Works great with 720/1080 material, 15-30% cpu usage (Cuda=ON) with Core2Duo E6750. Will soon test with 1080 uncompressed BD sources. Video quality is of course unprecedented - thanks madshi. ;)
When Cuda is enabled, 5 out of 10 times the player will lock up immediately and crash.

[namaiki]

Weirdo, is that the version with 64-unified shaders?

[Weirdo]

Weirdo, is that the version with 64-unified shaders?
Hmm... I think so. Same as "Cuda Cores=64"? Specs are here (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9600gt_us.html) and here (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=VGA&ProductID=3078&ProductName=GV-N96TSL-1GI).

I didn't find a way to use madVR with DVD's though, also tried with Cyberlink's PDVD 8 navigator, through ZoomPlayer.
Is this still an issue, requiring mkv remuxes to play dvd material?

[namaiki]

I didn't find a way to use madVR with DVD's though

Appears to work fine for most of my DVDs. I'm using MPCHC's internal codecs, or whatever CCCP defaults are, + Reclock, MadVR and AnyDVD. I haven't tried without AnyDVD though.. but I do get an error message, though it generally plays fine after I click the message away.

[Mark_A_W]

Appears to work fine for most of my DVDs. I'm using MPCHC's internal codecs, or whatever CCCP defaults are, + Reclock, MadVR and AnyDVD. I haven't tried without AnyDVD though.. but I do get an error message, though it generally plays fine after I click the message away.


XP, Vista or W7?

[namaiki]

Windows Vista, now W7.

edit3: sorry, it's only working with my R1 DVDs through AnyDVD..

[leeperry]

does "load external audio" work in MPC? because in KMP, it crashes...KMP tries to close the DS graph then recreate it, but because mVR doesn't close properly...I just get a DrWatson error msg in the XP event viewer and KMP crashes :(

I dunno what the priorities are for madshi, but proper closing down of the renderer and subs support would be really great http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/otakonleboss.gif