madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[JarrettH]

How will I know if NGU + RCA combined is running?

I'll just wait for the updated build for NGU + RCA behaviour fix. Thanks for the deband toggle key! :)

[Neo-XP]

There is a "Deblock" step when you display stats (CTRL+J) if RCA is running separately from NGU Sharp.

You also need to create a file named "ShowRenderSteps" in the madVR folder to see this.

[mclingo]

im having trouble with HDR on latest release. On first go it didnt work, reinstalled from scratch worked again in MPC-BE. tested in KODI DS, got an odd green screen then lost HDMI handshake. Killed KODI DS and woke HDMI, now not working in MPC-BE again, rebooted, working MPC-BE again. Tried KODI DS again not working, HDR not triggered and washed out colours, also very glitchy. Killed DS tried MPC -BE again, not working in that either now.

Not really sure whats going to be honest, I know that KODI DS writes back to DS database for some settings like FSE and rendering, perhaps this is breaking it, will have to go back to previous version for now.

EDIT, got this sorted now, think KODI DS was corrupting my MADVR settings, reinstall of both resolved.

[Neo-XP]

To be clear, if NGU sharp on high or very high is also used in chroma as well as image upscaling, there is a performance hit when using RCA?

You can not enable RCA for free for UHD sources to display them to a UHD screen, because there is no NGU Sharp used for image upscaling then (unless you activate supersampling).

But if you enable RCA for FHD sources to upscale them to a UHD screen, RCA will come for free if you use NGU Sharp for image upscaling.
It will also come for free if you use NGU Sharp for chroma upscaling and if you tick "process chroma channels, too" in RCA settings.

[ABDO]

madVR v0.92.11 released

i do not know should i thank you for you great work in madvr as usual, or to the huge words that you write to reply to all this queries, thank you sir, in fact thanks not enough for your awesome,so still saying... you are the best madshi.

[brazen1]

Neo-XP
Exactly what I've been doing. That explains it. Thank you.
Thank you also to madshi as was previously posted not only for giving us this great software but for taking the time to reply to us. I don't know how you do it......... but you do it well. Thanks again!

[Neo-XP]

@madshi Maybe another bug in v0.92.11 :

https://s13.postimg.org/lat9u25rn/Jinc_AR_and_Jinc_not_AR.png (https://postimg.org/image/lat9u25rn/)

For luma x upscaling (after doubling) Jinc AR is used, but Jinc without AR is used for luma y upscaling (after doubling). How is that possible ?

[mclingo]

@madshi, mentioned this before but dont remember anyone commenting on it. See image below, when calibration is disabled MADVR is overblowing colours on my system, dont remember which version this started with but the two latest had this issue.

Obviously these are just taken with a mobile so colours are all out of wack but you can see the difference in relative comparison, MADVR is on the right, EVR on left, both rendered in MPC.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0p6us5sl6hnoxb/Image6.jpg?dl=0

.

If I turn on calibration and set it to DCI-P3 / power curve 2.20 it corrects the image, surely uncalibrated should push out the same image as EVR renderer, colourwise, or has it always been this way and ive just not noticed?

corrected image which calibration turned on.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogbao3dip7u57c0/Image8.jpg?dl=0

[nevcairiel]

If you have a wide-gamut screen (like DCI-P3 or BT.2020), you need to tell madVR the respective gamut, otherwise its going to assume BT.709, which results in over-saturated colors. Perhaps it could try to be smarter and read that information from the EDID, but its hardly a new issue. You need to configure this stuff for an accurate picture.

[mclingo]

If you have a wide-gamut screen....

Its an LG OLED EF950 2015 4k HDR model, that'll be it then, thanks.

[Manni]

@Manni

Frame drops are every 3.5 minutes in 3D. FSE or Windowed makes no difference. Tip that might help you engage 3D windowed:

Unfortunately, that didn't work for me because 12bits was already engaged. So still no 3D without FSE.

In any case, I had missed that the setting would not survive a reboot, so that's not a viable option for me.

Back to FSE.

I can confirm that FSE or not I now get one drop every 3.5mn. Not sure why it had dropped to less than 2mn for a while.

I'm going to explore CRU.

[njfoses]

If you have a wide-gamut screen (like DCI-P3 or BT.2020), you need to tell madVR the respective gamut, otherwise its going to assume BT.709, which results in over-saturated colors. Perhaps it could try to be smarter and read that information from the EDID, but its hardly a new issue. You need to configure this stuff for an accurate picture.

I would assume when playing HDR content and HDR passthrough enabled on a HDR capable screen, that madVR would assume bt2020.

Otherwise REC 709 should be the default no? On my sony 4k HDR for example, it will only switch to bt2020 when it receives an HDR signal. Otherwise the default is rec 709.

[ryrynz]

Madshi, is adaptive sharpen up to date?

[mytbyte]

madVR relies on what the splitter/decoder reports, especially when the content is HEVC. So the key question is why the splitter/decoder isn't reporting HDR to madVR.


After a short PM correspondence, the poster with original problem has tried the MPC-BE instead of Zoom player and it worked, so it's probably a player-related problem.


madVR follows SMPTE 2390 recommendations. Of course it would be possible to offer an alternative tone mapping algorithm. But do you actually dislike the image madVR's tone mapping produces? Or is this more a theoretical complaint?



I guess it's theoretical since I do find the tone mapping very pleasing, but thought perhaps more visual "juice" could be squeezed from an average brightness monitor (200-250 nits) to get more of the HDR effect. There is quite an added punch with "compress highlights" off but it's hard-clipping so if it could be a similar visual effect to when there is no roll-off, but not quite as harsh. A user-selectable tone map would be indeed a nice touch.

[nevcairiel]

I would assume when playing HDR content and HDR passthrough enabled on a HDR capable screen, that madVR would assume bt2020.

Otherwise REC 709 should be the default no? On my sony 4k HDR for example, it will only switch to bt2020 when it receives an HDR signal. Otherwise the default is rec 709.

Many UHD screens can also be run in BT.2020/DCI-P3 mode for SDR. BT.2020 is not exclusive to HDR, and while the first wave of 4K SDR content still used BT.709, that is changing.

[TheShadowRunner]

Thanks for this new build but:

* removed "exclusive" / "windowed" mode OSD notification

Arg.. why?

[Asmodian]

If you want that info look for it in the OSD. The little OSD message when simply watching, not caring how it is displayed anymore, you don't really need to know that it is using windowed mode. :p

At least that is my take; I prefer no message. :)

[Manni]

@madshi

For various reasons (primarily the lack of legit content until recent developments, as I'm only interested in playing my own discs), I had not looked into the HDR>SDR conversion in MadVR for a while. I had a quick look today and was utterly impressed by the results. Amazing work!

I don't have much time at the moment and I need to do a bit more tests with a variety of titles I'm familiar with but I might have a few questions/suggestions for you when I've had the time to take a closer look.

I just wanted to say "well done!", the result is significantly better than what I've been able to get with any custom curves, especially regarding saturation in shadow detail and highlights.

The main downside is that we don't get the metadata on the HDMI out when not in pass-through mode as the content is now SDR, which means that the auto calibration switch (SDR/3D/x.v.color/HLG/HDR10) that I have designed with HD Fury for the Vertex for the JVCs doesn't work to enable my SDR BT2020 calibration, so I have to select it manually (which is just one button on the iPad, but still, automatic is nice, especially for the family).

I'll have to discuss this with you once I have a better idea of what's best from a calibration point of view and how we could automate things with MadVR, as the JVC control is already implemented.

Again, fantastic work!

[TheShadowRunner]

If you want that info look for it in the OSD. The little OSD message when simply watching, not caring how it is displayed anymore, you don't really need to know that it is using windowed mode. :p

At least that is my take; I prefer no message. :)

hmm, make it optional?
I like to verify the auto-switching to exclusive and it's pretty neat too.

[Clammerz]

hmm, make it optional?
I don't think it's worth the dev time. "neat" is very subjective. I think most users find it obstructive/nuisance.
If you must "verify" then the OSD can verify for you, otherwise I don't think there's any point.

[nevcairiel]

The main downside is that we don't get the metadata on the HDMI out when not in pass-through mode as the content is now SDR, which means that the auto calibration switch (SDR/3D/x.v.color/HLG/HDR10) that I have designed with HD Fury for the Vertex for the JVCs doesn't work to enable my SDR BT2020 calibration, so I have to select it manually (which is just one button on the iPad, but still, automatic is nice, especially for the family).

The easiest solution would be to just always play in SDR BT.2020 mode and let madVR make up the difference in calibration for BT.709 content with a 3DLUT. In my experience reducing the amount of "switching" of things in hardware is always a good thing. One definitely doesn't want to open the OSD for every single video file, look at the colorspace, then re-configure the screen (SDR content could be BT.2020 as well, thats not only a HDR thing. Its not been extremely common yet, but it'll come for UHD). That takes literally all the enjoyment out of everything.

A solution that builds on top of madVRs strengths should always be preferred, instead of deferring more and more stuff to external things with specific hardware interactions. madVR already offers all the tools to do this, like multiple 3DLUTs depending on the videos colorspace.

Otherwise, madshi may fix the run external program on profile switch thing, then you could build a profile around the matrix and automate anything with an external command as much as you want.

[Soulnight]

I guess it's theoretical since I do find the tone mapping very pleasing, but thought perhaps more visual "juice" could be squeezed from an average brightness monitor (200-250 nits) to get more of the HDR effect. There is quite an added punch with "compress highlights" off but it's hard-clipping so if it could be a similar visual effect to when there is no roll-off, but not quite as harsh. A user-selectable tone map would be indeed a nice touch.

Any way of getting more HDR punch (user selectable) for low brightness display (projector) is always a good idea. :D

[Soulnight]

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2364113-guide-building-4k-htpc-madvr-21.html#post55500058

I also had an idea for improving HDR pop with a "intelligent / dynamic" clipping and got positive feedback from Madshi. :)


Posted by Soulnight
1) A bit complicated but nice
I am using the HDR to SDR shader math mapping with a 300nits target, with dynamic compression of the highlights up to the peak luminance of each image.

What I have noticed is very often only a few pixels in the image are reaching this peak luminance (let's say 1000nits), but most of the highlights (let's say 90% of the pixel above 300nits) are still below 600nits.

So Madvr is compressing the pixels between 300nits to 1000nits in order to NOT clip ANY pixels, even it's only a few. But doing so, most of the pixels are compressed heavily in the process, for those few.

I would propose to give the user a choice for setting "a dynamic clipping nits limit" in "percent" of the number of pixels above "this display target nits".
This "P=percentage clipping value" (in our example 90%) would be used like this:
- T= total number of pixels above "the display target nits" (in our example 300nits)
- C= cumulated number of pixel above 300nits sorted by increasing nits
- When C/T=P=90%, then select accordingly the clipping value. (in our example, 90% of the pixels above 300nits are below 600nits).

In another word, we are looking for the NITS level of the P=% Quantil for the pixels above "this display target nits"

Use the new calculated clipping value instead of "the measured peak luminance".

Madshi Answer:
Not a bad idea at all. Two problems:

1) It's more difficult to implement than the current measurement because I'd have to measure a full histogramm, which is harder to do with simple pixel or compute shaders than the current very simple measurement.
2) Any additional user option makes things harder to understand for the average user. Especially if the new option is cryptic. How would the average user understand "percent of the number of pixels above the display target nits"?

But I'll add this idea to my list of things to look at. Maybe I can come up with something that either needs no additional user options, or can be explained to the user in such a way that he's not confused.

[Soulnight]

As for the problem number 2 from Madshi, I would suggest an option called:

Clip highlight strength /HDR Strength:
- none (0%)
- low (10%)
- medium (25%)
- high (50%)
- Full (100%)
- User value: (open box where value can be set between 0 and 100%)

[Manni]

The easiest solution would be to just always play in SDR BT.2020 mode and let madVR make up the difference in calibration for BT.709 content with a 3DLUT. In my experience reducing the amount of "switching" of things in hardware is always a good thing. One definitely doesn't want to open the OSD for every single video file, look at the colorspace, then re-configure the screen (SDR content could be BT.2020 as well, thats not only a HDR thing. Its not been extremely common yet, but it'll come for UHD). That takes literally all the enjoyment out of everything.

A solution that builds on top of madVRs strengths should always be preferred, instead of deferring more and more stuff to external things with specific hardware interactions. madVR already offers all the tools to do this, like multiple 3DLUTs depending on the videos colorspace.

Otherwise, madshi may fix the run external program on profile switch thing, then you could build a profile around the matrix and automate anything with an external command as much as you want.

Yes, this is why I said I needed to investigate more before bothering Madshi with it. By the way, with the Vertex, I don't need to open the OSD to switch calibrations, the Vertex does it for me.

I've used 3D LUTs to switch between PAL, NTSC and Rec-709 content for ages, but that's because I can get a perfect rec-709 calibration with a MadVR LUT and then I use Calman to create the PAL and NTSC 3D LUTs from the Rec-709 one. My BT2020 calibration (which is what I used for this quick evaluation) isn't as good, and I was never able to get it as good as my rec-709 calibration even with a 3D LUT based on it, but I haven't looked into that for a while. I'm not sure what will give the best results, using one SDRBT2020 3D LUT or using one for each kind of content. Need to run some tests.

I also prefer to use MadVR to shift the picture vertically instead of using the physical lens shift, so I'm with you on the "less physical stuff". :)

However, MadVR only helps with HTPC content. With non-HTPC content, you still need some help to get the best possible picture (given that I'd like to avoid getting a Radiance Pro). For all the other sources, the Vertex is doing a great job at switching between the various calibrations, so I need to find a way to make it work both for HTPC content and non-HTPC sources. Also MadVR doesn't support some content yet, such as HLG and there is some content it will never support, such as x.v.color.

The other thing is that if you only use a single SDR BT2020 calibration in the projector, you have to use the iris fully open with the filter on (to get max peak brightness for HDR and widest possible gamut). This means that SDR content is in essence compromised because you get a lower native and dynamic on/off contrast (as well as a raised black floor if you don't want to use the dynamic iris). The increase in ANSI contrast doesn't make up for that entirely. Things are not as simple as you make them sound, especially with a projector.

So I'm all for what you suggest, as long as my rec-709 content doesn't become less accurate or I don't lose any performance for HD content as a result. It's still the majority of my content, by far.

I'll do some tests and I'll get back to Madshi with results and questions when I've had the time to investigate more. I've used custom profiles for ages but never had a use for external commands, I'm going to look into that as soon as Madshi fixes.

Believe me, if I can get back to what I had before UHD Blurays, HDR10 and HLG and have MadVR deal with all my content with super accurate and optimal results, I'll be delighted. :)

What I've seen yesterday with the HDR>SDR conversion, even without using a 3D LUT (I haven't done one for SDR BT2020 for ages) was very promising, and at this stage I only wanted to share that excitement with Madshi.

[leeperry]

OMG, no more windowed/exclusive OSD buggers, 2018 is looking astounding so far :devil:

And yes, D3D GUI of latest PotP was a complete disaster so I had to roll back because it's always very hard to make them acknowledge bugs and I figured someone else would whine soon enough, but then again if you fixed it on your end I might give it a shot again :)

Oh and that nasty freezing problem in seamless mode is back with PotP, not sure why as it had vanished for months...will have to update to the latest nightly LAV and see if that helps.

1) How does NGU Sharp + the new lowest RCA strength 1 look to you? Maybe NGU Sharp (only High and Very High) should always run with RCA strength 1 now, even if RCA is turned off? Or is it still better to allow NGU Sharp + RCA off?

Please don't enforce RCA because some very noisy videos actually look better without it and I have an old GPU so I like to use it efficiently and might be willing to trade some other option for RCA, especially on 720p@1080p. But even if it came 100% free, options are good, a noise reduction feature needs to come with a toggle IMO.

I added 2 new lower RCA strength settings. What was strength 1 in v0.92.10 is now strength 3 in v0.92.11. So I'm asking if the new very low strength "1" setting is low enough to never harm.
Will try and report, I was happy with 1 though as long as it could be turned off.

I'm planning to revisit "add grain" soon.

Most looking forward to it :thanks:

Would the algorithm of madshi can be a a plugin or a DLL library or something for other Picture viewer

Yeah, someone oughta write a madVR-powered picture viewer, shame :(

[ashlar42]

One line madshi: thanks for continued development, as usual much appreciated, and all the best for a great 2018. :)

[mytbyte]

As for the problem number 2 from Madshi, I would suggest an option called:

Clip highlight strength /HDR Strength:
- none (0%)
- low (10%)
- medium (25%)
- high (50%)
- Full (100%)
- User value: (open box where value can be set between 0 and 100%)

That's smart...and those more advanced users with a colorimeter can measure their top nits and the curve and, through trial-and-error come to the percentage value where the curve still closely follows the PQ curve up to the 100 nits value, all without confusing the normal users who would make choices on their visual preference...

[chros]

3) The latest Windows 10 Fall Creators Update might/should contain a fix for switching to 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz refresh rates in both D3D9 and D3D11 FSE mode, without needing the madVR option "hack Direct3D to make 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz work" to be activated. Could you please double check this to confirm?

(FYI, in case you didn't know, older Windows 10 versions, and also Windows 8.1, like to switch to 23.976 Hz and 59.940 Hz in FSE mode, even if madVR asks for 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz.)
I need to use this option with FSE on Win8.1 (see my signature for details) and it's working. :) So if the reason of the question was a potential removal of it then please don't :)
Thanks for Your work and support!

[clsid]

Please add an option to apply RCA only in combo with NGU. So only when it is almost free performance wise.

And also let the settings interface remember the last viewed page.

[madshi]

Do you know what causes this, its pretty much the only problem I have left to resolve now before I'm fully stable.
Probably GPU drivers?

madshi, thank you for the new build, are you planning simple crop options like crop to 1.85:1, crop to 2.35:1, crop to 2.39:1, crop to 2.40:1?
Not planned atm. Anything wrong with automatic black bar detection?

FHD to UHD (off / RCA@1 high) :

Sharpness freaks will not like it (if it is forced with NGU Sharp).
Personally, I think that NGU Sharp should be as sharp as possible.
Fair enough.

@madshi Maybe another bug in v0.92.11 :

For luma x upscaling (after doubling) Jinc AR is used, but Jinc without AR is used for luma y upscaling (after doubling). How is that possible ?
Yes, probably just an OSD text bug, caused by the (potentially) added "LL" information.

If I turn on calibration and set it to DCI-P3 / power curve 2.20 it corrects the image, surely uncalibrated should push out the same image as EVR renderer, colourwise, or has it always been this way and ive just not noticed?
What kind of movie did you test this with? Was the movie BT.709 or DCI-P3 or BT.2020?

Madshi, is adaptive sharpen up to date?
I think so. But I still have on my to do list to revisit AdaptiveSharpen, compare the old to the new version, and maybe tweak it all over again.

I guess it's theoretical since I do find the tone mapping very pleasing, but thought perhaps more visual "juice" could be squeezed from an average brightness monitor (200-250 nits) to get more of the HDR effect. There is quite an added punch with "compress highlights" off but it's hard-clipping so if it could be a similar visual effect to when there is no roll-off, but not quite as harsh. A user-selectable tone map would be indeed a nice touch.
Yes, it's on my to do list to research "good" ways to add more punch, potentially on the cost of mild clipping.

* removed "exclusive" / "windowed" mode OSD notification

Arg.. why?
To be fair, I had it in there mainly to help me debug problems. If we wanted to keep it in, I would have to add *a lot* more similar messages, like "overlay", "fullscreen", "10bit" vs "8bit" (which can also change when going fullscreen). "HDR" vs "SDR" etc etc etc... Or what would be the reason to just notify you about "windowed" vs "exclusive", but not about all the other things?

But in the end it sums up to that the majority of users wanted it gone (I think). Maybe it'll come back some day as an option, together with lots of other similar notifications. I don't know yet.

Of course if there are many users who're opposed to me deleting this notification, we can do a vote and check how many users want it vs don't want it. But so far you're the only one who's complained. Anybody else unhappy about this?

For various reasons (primarily the lack of legit content until recent developments, as I'm only interested in playing my own discs), I had not looked into the HDR>SDR conversion in MadVR for a while. I had a quick look today and was utterly impressed by the results. Amazing work!

I don't have much time at the moment and I need to do a bit more tests with a variety of titles I'm familiar with but I might have a few questions/suggestions for you when I've had the time to take a closer look.

I just wanted to say "well done!", the result is significantly better than what I've been able to get with any custom curves, especially regarding saturation in shadow detail and highlights.
Thanks - I'm glad to hear that!

FYI, another film maker paid me good money to make the HDR -> SDR algorithm available to him via VapourSynth. He's now grading all his films (ads mostly, IIRC) in HDR only, and lets madVR do the SDR based on his HDR grade. Saves him a lot of time...

The main downside is that we don't get the metadata on the HDMI out when not in pass-through mode as the content is now SDR, which means that the auto calibration switch (SDR/3D/x.v.color/HLG/HDR10) that I have designed with HD Fury for the Vertex for the JVCs doesn't work to enable my SDR BT2020 calibration, so I have to select it manually (which is just one button on the iPad, but still, automatic is nice, especially for the family).
You could try the madVR option "process HDR" instead of "convert HDR". That way madVR would do the tone and gamut mapping, but still send HDR to the JVC. However, the content would be sent as PQ, so the JVC would still have to some processing of its own. Not sure how the end result would look like.

I need to use this option with FSE on Win8.1 (see my signature for details) and it's working. :) So if the reason of the question was a potential removal of it then please don't :)
I know that the option is still needed in Windows 8.1, I've no plans to remove it.

Please add an option to apply RCA only in combo with NGU. So only when it is almost free performance wise.
Hmmmm... Interesting idea. What is the motivation for such a new option? Wouldn't you get the same result by creating a simple profile based on video resolution (e.g. disable RCA for 4K content, but enable it for lower res content)?

And also let the settings interface remember the last viewed page.
That should already be the case! The only exception is if you have a "?" device, in that case the settings dialog always jumps there, to motivate you to tell madVR which display type it is.

[ryrynz]

The settings page is remembering the last viewed page for me, no probs.

[Siso]

Not planned atm. Anything wrong with automatic black bar detection?

It gave me BSOD, and it detects incorrect aspect ratios, I sent you a sample few months ago...

[SamuriHL]

I vote for no exclusive/windowed message.

[Manni]

You could try the madVR option "process HDR" instead of "convert HDR". That way madVR would do the tone and gamut mapping, but still send HDR to the JVC. However, the content would be sent as PQ, so the JVC would still have to some processing of its own. Not sure how the end result would look like.


Thanks for the suggestion, but the idea is to avoid the HDR processing in the JVC entirely, so I favour Convert HDR. On my model (RS500), the HDR mode is buggy so I use the Vertex to never enable it, and I've created custom curves using Arve's tool which are much better than the factory implementation, but are not as good as MadVR's conversion. I can't really use "Process HDR" because as you say it sends PQ so we would still need the display to process HDR, and then we'd have too many variables (MadVR + custom curve).

What's great about MadVR's conversion is that the only thing you need is a good SDR BT2020 calibration, which is easy and straightforward to create, at least as a baseline.

I've looked into this a bit more and here are the main issues I'm trying to solve:

1) If using "process HDR", it works great with an SDR BT2020 calibration in the projector, but I can't apply a 3D LUT anymore. Ideally, I would like to be able to apply a 3D LUT (generated in Calman with a BT2020 SDR Gamma 2.4 target) to improve my baseline, so that the calibration is perfect, yet still use MadVR to do the HDR>SDR conversion. I don't see an option to do this at the moment, but I might have missed it. If I select "your display is already calibrated" pointing to a BT2020 calibration to get SDR BT2020 with Pixel shader math, I can apply any 3D LUT.

2) In order to get the best SDR BT2020 calibration for HDR, I need to open my iris wide, select high lamp and select the filter, to maximize peakY and gamut cover. This gives the best result for HDR content (would be even better if I could apply a 3D LUT without losing MADVR's pixel shader conversion), but it's not ideal for SDR: loss of on/off contrast, higher lamp noise and lower lamp life. I don't really want to keep this calibration on all the time and let MadVR convert to rec-709 etc.

3) This means that I have to select my SDR BT2020 baseline when playing HDR content, and only when playing HDR content. For all other HTPC content, I have to select my rec-709 calibration, which is completely different (lower iris setting, low lamp, no filter). I already have 3D LUTs for this (and PAL/NTSC) that I would ideally like to be able to go on using. Unfortunately, as I have to select "your display is already calibrated" with a BT2020 calibration to get SDR BT2020 out of the pixel shader conversion, I don't think I can keep using these 3D LUTs profiled from my rec-709 baseline/calibration in the projector anymore.

4) I could use the external command when playing HDR content (I already have a separate profile for HDR to deal with 4K60p content, as you might remember that there is a bug in the JVC with that content if metadata is sent with passthrough, so I disable metadata specifically for this at the moment), and then bring back the rec-709 calibration when leaving the HDR profile. However, I understand that the feature is broken at the moment. I also have no idea what the commands are to control the JVCs. I mean, I know the JVC commands, I use them with iRule or the Vertex, but I don't know the syntax to send them from a command line with MadVR.

5) I don't need to have the metadata sent to the Vertex when MadVR is doing the conversion as it seems to be doing such a great job. If I find a way to select my SDR BT2020 calibration on the projector when HDR content is played, that's fine.

6) As I need other calibrations in the projector for non MadVR sources (such as my bluray player for x.v.color and 3D, my UHD Bluray to stream SDR, HDR and HLG content, my Humax Satellite box etc), the easiest way to go for me would be to keep using the Vertex to switch my calibrations automatically in the PJ for any kind of content, and when MadVR plays HDR to get MadVR to select my SDR BT2020 calibration and do its magic. The Vertex selects the calibration according to content (I have one SDR rec-709 for film, one for TV content with frame interpolation, one for 3D (until the frame drop every 3mn issue is fixed with nVidia, I'm still using my standalone player to play 3D whenever possible), one for HLG Rec709, one for HLG BT2020, and one for HDR10 (which wouldn't be used with MadVR). MadVR then adds either its 3D LUT (for Rec709, PAL and NTSC, all based from a single rec-709 profile) or its HDR>SDR conversion (for HDR10). Ideally, as discussed above, if I could also get an SDR BT2020 3D LUT applied (on top of my SDR BT2020 baseline calibration after a JVC Autocal, to improve further the accuracy) when MadVR does its SDR conversion, that would be great.

7) What I don't want for MadVR re HDR10 is either MadVR doing only the processing (I'd rather use passthrough in that case if the display still has to deal with PQ) or MadVR applying a 3D LUT that would also do the tonemapping, as Calman doesn't support BT2390 yet and I suspect the result wouldn't be as good as MadVR anyway, due to all the options available in the MadVR pixel shader conversion. Lightspace supports BT2390 but I'd rather do all my calibration from Calman.

I hope it makes sense. Please let me know if you have any suggestions or if I got something wrong with this initial assessment. It's a complex cinema room set-up, so I might have missed a far simpler way to do this.

Otherwise, for me the questions/priorities would be:

1) Is there a way to get the MadVR HDR to SDR conversion and still apply an SDR BT2020 3D LUT to improve the accuracy of the baseline calibration in the PJ further, without losing the pixel shader conversion?

2) Is there a chance for the external command in the custom profiles to be fixed in the near future, and if yes please could you point me in the right direction regarding the way to pass JVC commands to the projector using a batch file? I don't need the JVC commands themselves, only the way to send them (and which format I'm supposed to use).

Thanks!

[-Hitman-]

Hi Guy's,

Been using a pre-hdr version of madvr for some time with no issues with my Dell monitor (used for desktop/web) and my Denon AVR - LG TV as an extended display (for movies), both on intel HDMI motherboard outputs.

I have just updated my PC to an 8700K system for UHD playback and installed the latest madvr, however my displays are not being correctly detected :(

My Dell is listed as the only detected display but the identification EDID within the Dell display properties is my Denon AVR and every time I use the Denon a new identification appears under the Dell display device, again showing the Denon edid, these Id's just mount up each time I use the Denon-TV display, weird.

Can anyone help in fixing this issue, I've added an image snip of madvr devices page - showing the Dell display and numerous identifications within it, each id has been created every time I use the Denon - Tv display.

Thanks for any help.


https://i.imgur.com/4w4aH85.png

[mclingo]

What kind of movie did you test this with? Was the movie BT.709 or DCI-P3 or BT.2020?

.


Hi, it was a straight bluray UK bluray remuxed, not sure, cant seem to pull that info from mediainfo.

Control J clocks it as BT709 but there is some more odd behavior.

If I play the movie with calibration disabled its all overblown in red like I say. If I then press control s to bring up the settings, when the settings screen comes up the colour reverts to normal like the rendering path is being broken, this is with FSE off using MPC-BE.

What I have also noticed is that setting MADVR calibration to Bt.2020 it even more natural, DCI-P3 was still a bit red. With MADVR set to b3.2020 the colour is almost identical to standard EVR rendering in MPC.

Any idea what going on here Madshi?

[TheShadowRunner]

I vote for no exclusive/windowed message.

I vote for a simple toggle, even via registry key, to enable it if we want.
I use madVR mainly for its perfect stability, and the windowed/exclusive info is the most important to me (replying as to why this info versus others), besides the code already exists ^^;
As sometimes i'm swtching from 720p@60 to 1080p@24 and madVR doesn't always go to exclusive mode in that case, with the OSD at least I know.

[madshi]

It gave me BSOD, and it detects incorrect aspect ratios, I sent you a sample few months ago...
BSOD is almost always a GPU driver bug. And when it's not, then it's a hardware problem.

I'm sure you sent me a sample, I probably didn't have time to look into that yet. I have a folder with "black bar detection" samples that I need to look at, when I find some time.

Unfortunately, as I have to select "your display is already calibrated" with a BT2020 calibration to get SDR BT2020 out of the pixel shader conversion, I don't think I can keep using these 3D LUTs profiled from my rec-709 baseline/calibration in the projector anymore.
That's not true, at least it's not intended to be that way. You should be able to select "convert HDR to SDR with pixel shader math" and then set the display to "calibrate with external 3dlut", and if you then supply both a BT.709 SDR 3DLUT and a BT.2020 SDR 3DLUT, madVR should automatically use the BT.709 3DLUT for BT.709 content and the BT.2020 3DLUT for DCI-P3 and BT.2020 content. And the pixel shader math HDR -> SDR conversion should then not downconvert the gamut if there's a BT.2020 3DLUT.

2) Is there a chance for the external command in the custom profiles to be fixed in the near future
It's already in v0.92.11!

Been using a pre-hdr version of madvr for some time with no issues with my Dell monitor (used for desktop/web) and my Denon AVR - LG TV as an extended display (for movies), both on intel HDMI motherboard outputs.

I have just updated my PC to an 8700K system for UHD playback and installed the latest madvr, however my displays are not being correctly detected :(

My Dell is listed as the only detected display but the identification EDID within the Dell display properties is my Denon AVR and every time I use the Denon a new identification appears under the Dell display device, again showing the Denon edid, these Id's just mount up each time I use the Denon-TV display, weird.

Can anyone help in fixing this issue, I've added an image snip of madvr devices page - showing the Dell display and numerous identifications within it, each id has been created every time I use the Denon - Tv display.
Uh, that's weird! And is the raw data of all those identifications identical? Try deleting *all* of them. Does that stop the madness?

Hi, it was a straight bluray UK bluray remuxed, not sure, cant seem to pull that info from mediainfo.

Control J clocks it as BT709 but there is some more odd behavior.

If I play the movie with calibration disabled its all overblown in red like I say. If I then press control s to bring up the settings, when the settings screen comes up the colour reverts to normal like the rendering path is being broken, this is with FSE off using MPC-BE.

What I have also noticed is that setting MADVR calibration to Bt.2020 it even more natural, DCI-P3 was still a bit red. With MADVR set to b3.2020 the colour is almost identical to standard EVR rendering in MPC.
Sounds like something is completely broken in your GPU driver setup or something. The settings screen coming up shouldn't change anything. I don't really know what to recommend here. Try resetting GPU control panel to default settings. Not sure if that helps. Also try different modes in madVR, e.g. D3D9 vs D3D11, exclusive on vs off. Maybe the GPU does bad things in only one of those modes?

[ryrynz]

It's already in v0.92.11!


He mentioned it being fixed, is there something wrong with it?


Otherwise, madshi may fix the run external program on profile switch thing, then you could build a profile around the matrix and automate anything with an external command as much as you want.

[Clown shoes]

Hi all,

probably a dopey question but it's been a long couple of days and I'm having one of those pandora's box situations, where I was initially trying to do something that I thought would be straightforward, but have now had to teach myself half a dozen different things to make it happen :)

Basically I started off by trying to calibrate my new TV about a week ago, but quickly discovered I have colour space issues with parts of my chain... long story short I was looking for an alternative way of running calibration patterns on my TV via my laptop, but discovered that for some unknown reason my laptop (Dell xps15 9550) plays the 0-255 black and white clipping files (mp4s from AVS HD 709) as 16-235, or at least I think that is what is happening, there is no information showing from 0-16 or 235-255.

Where I am slightly confused and the reason I am here is because the only way I can make the file play back correctly on my laptop is by selecting 'TV levels (16-235)' in the properties tab of MadVR.

I'm probably being very stupid here and missing something very obvious, but this is the opposite of what I was expecting. Why does 16-235 reveal the information and 0-255 clip it? Have I done something wrong?

Cheers

[huhn]

asically I started off by trying to calibrate my new TV about a week ago, but quickly discovered I have colour space issues with parts of my chain... long story short I was looking for an alternative way of running calibration patterns on my TV via my laptop, but discovered that for some unknown reason my laptop (Dell xps15 9550) plays the 0-255 black and white clipping files (mp4s from AVS HD 709) as 16-235, or at least I think that is what is happening, there is no information showing from 0-16 or 235-255.

that's the point of the file.
if they are >not< shown than BTB and WTW are properly clipped as it should be.

[psyside]

Hi, can anyone tell me how to enable VP9 in Potplayer? i got GTX1050 ti if that helps regarding settings, thanks.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/5j7NqSj7RpSeK-aBkmL7Xg.png

[austinminton]

He mentioned it being fixed, is there something wrong with it?

I can confirm profile execution is working fine. I don't have to run any scripts manually for 3D, all built into profile execution. Thanks madshi.

[austinminton]

I can even enable and disable 3D on the fly during runtime by setting keyboard shortcuts on the 3D profiles, simply amazing! Finally we have fully automated switching for both 3D and HDR on nvidia. Thanks again madshi for this outstanding release.

[Blackwalker]

finally i got a MSI 1060 6GB Yesssssssssssssssss
i'll try later :D

[nussman]

Hi, can anyone tell me how to enable VP9 in Potplayer? i got GTX1050 ti if that helps regarding settings, thanks.

This thread is for madVR and not for general support. :thanks:

[psyside]

This thread is for madVR and not for general support. :thanks:

Yes sorry! i was sleepy :/

[pankov]

After a short PM correspondence, the poster with original problem has tried the MPC-BE instead of Zoom player and it worked, so it's probably a player-related problem.


If it's the same person that posted in the Zoom Players forum it turned out that he was using DirectVobSub in his ZP setup/graph while in MPC it was a straight connection from LAV to madVR. After he configured ZP to correctly use xySubFilter everything started working perfectly in Zoom Player.
;)

[Manni]

That's not true, at least it's not intended to be that way. You should be able to select "convert HDR to SDR with pixel shader math" and then set the display to "calibrate with external 3dlut", and if you then supply both a BT.709 SDR 3DLUT and a BT.2020 SDR 3DLUT, madVR should automatically use the BT.709 3DLUT for BT.709 content and the BT.2020 3DLUT for DCI-P3 and BT.2020 content. And the pixel shader math HDR -> SDR conversion should then not downconvert the gamut if there's a BT.2020 3DLUT.


Thanks, but isn't this assuming the SAME profile/calibration is used in the display for all the 3D LUTs? As I can't do this, I have to use the custom profile external command to enable the correct calibration in the display, so that I can have iris open / high lamp / filter for HDR (SDR BT 2020) and iris closed / low lamp / no filter for SDR, correct?


It's already in v0.92.11!


Great news, will be very useful for 3D and nVidia users, sorry if I missed this in the change log. :)

So do you have an answer to my question: how do I select the calibration in the PJ with a batch file? I don't need the JVC commands themselves, I know them, I just need to know how to send them from a batch file. A user has posted how to do it in Python in the JVC thread, but I don't know how to call a python script from a batch file.

So any information (ideally an example of a batch file sending any command to the JVC) about achieving this would be very useful.

Thanks!