madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[nevcairiel]

2) Example 2. (http://46.4.15.147:8080/Video/Contests/AMVNewsBC2009/AMVNews.BC.2009-Derisor-Grimoire.mkv) h264/848x480p@29.97fps. This Ctrl+J (00:02) - http://2.firepic.org/2/images/2012-01/03/syxujmq8eicu.jpg (madVR PC levels) and HaaliVR Luma Range TV (http://2.firepic.org/2/images/2012-01/03/876zmtfuipfm.jpg).

That file is encoded as "full range", which means the way madVR displays it is the correct way. HaaliVR does not understand the difference between a full-range encode and a limited range encode, and always assumes limited.

Its possible that your file was encoded badly, or that you just *think* it should look differently, even though its being displayed properly. madVR is doing exactly what its supposed to do. There is no bug. If it really doesn't look like its supposed to, then your file is broken.

[zmaster]

nevcairiel,
As a result, I get the Correct Incorrect image. That's why I'm looking for ability of manual switching full/limited range in madVR settings.

[ryrynz]

While on the topic of keyboard shortcuts, I'd also love to see the ability to tie them to different combinations of scaling algorithms also, thanks.

[naoan]

nevcairiel,
As a result, I get the Correct Incorrect image. That's why I'm looking for ability of manual switching full/limited range in madVR settings.

If your files are encoded with h264 then you could try this workaround http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=152419 to change the bitstream sps/flag. Works for me.

[whitestar999]

Disable the Auto settings and lower the queue settings (12 should be fine in most set ups). Also increase the back buffer value in fullscreen mode (experiment values between 6-10, 8 also worked on alot of systems). hopefully it works for you.

EDIT: I just tested both those files. Working flawlessly here even on low end system using the values mentioned. Hope it helps!

it worked.setting decoder queue to 12 & rest of the queues & back buffer to 8 solved the problem.now i can play those 2 videos fine in full screen on 32" HD TV .

[zmaster]

If your files are encoded with h264 then you could try this workaround http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=152419 to change the bitstream sps/flag. Works for me.For obvious reasons, it is a long and uncomfortable way.
The same can be said about the external 3dlut-file. Most of users as and I not able to properly create 3dlut-file, using, for example, yCMS, because for it needs to understand something in colorimetry.

Or switching parameter in the madVR settings: it is simple and very convenient. :)

[madshi]

@zmaster, just press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I twice to switch between limited <-> full range input.

@Everyone, I'd love to get some feedback about the IVTC algorithm introduced in v0.80. So far I've got a few complaints, which mostly seem to be caused by trying to IVTC material which wasn't properly telecined to start with. Does anybody use the new IVTC algorithm at all?? Does it work or does it not work? There's not a single "it works" or "it doesn't work" report for the most important purpose, namely 1080i60 broadcasts and NTSC DVDs.

[e-t172]

A few days ago I tested IVTC on an episode of Homeland from Showtime Video on Demand (1080i60). It wasn't working very well (everything was OK according to the stats, but I could see heavy stuttering on my screen). Besides, at one point the cadence indicated in the stats changed to something absurd (like 8:2, I don't really remember), although I couldn't reproduce it. I'll test again and get you a sample as soon as I get home.

[madshi]

Thanks, that would be much appreciated.

[zmaster]

just press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I twice to switch between limited <-> full range inputThanks!

But if possible, could you please add an option in madVR settings? In order to not have to switch every time. For example: Auto (as currently)/Manual: TV/PC.
I think that it makes sense.

[naoan]

For obvious reasons, it is a long and uncomfortable way.
The same can be said about the external 3dlut-file. Most of users as and I not able to properly create 3dlut-file, using, for example, yCMS, because for it needs to understand something in colorimetry.

Or switching parameter in the madVR settings: it is simple and very convenient. :)

Indeed it is, but it ensure no intervention to madvr or any other renderer out there. Remembering to put --range tv (as of r2120, --fullrange off on older revision) on x264 when you encode video would spare you this trouble as well.

@zmaster, just press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I twice to switch between limited <-> full range input.


Arr, I never knew about this feature, any chance to make it as an option on the setting?

[noee]

Re: IVTC on NTSC DVDs. Here's what I've seen:

I have two test scenarios, the first is a simple rip to MKV of a NTSC DVD (older DVD, film):
MediaInfo shows:
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Original display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Original frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Compression mode : Lossy

Eac3to shows:
1: MPEG2, 480i60 /1.001 (16:9)

The second is a DVD playback from ripped VOB structure (newer DVD, film):
MediaInfo shows:
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : 2:3 Pulldown
Compression mode : Lossy

Eac3to shows:
1: MPEG2, 480p24 /1.001 (16:9) with pulldown flags

I have to manually turn on deinterlacing *and* ivtc and my monitor has to be set to 24Hz before starting the movie. madVR OSD then shows "film mode, cadence 3:2" and I can see the IVTC queues and timings. Not sure if this is the expected workflow (it is cumbersome). I assumed IVTC was independent of deinterlacing.

Playback is smooth, without artifacts, render queue is the only one not full (10-11/16) but no drops or glitches. Using madVR (Libav) for MPEG2 decoding.

In CCC, I have both Auto Deint and Pulldown detection "On".

[robpdotcom]

@zmaster, just press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I twice to switch between limited <-> full range input.

@Everyone, I'd love to get some feedback about the IVTC algorithm introduced in v0.80. So far I've got a few complaints, which mostly seem to be caused by trying to IVTC material which wasn't properly telecined to start with. Does anybody use the new IVTC algorithm at all?? Does it work or does it not work? There's not a single "it works" or "it doesn't work" report for the most important purpose, namely 1080i60 broadcasts and NTSC DVDs.

I normally watch a good bit of 1080i60 broadcasts, but not much lately because during the holidays they're all re-runs. This week I'll be able to test a lot more.

When I have used madVR's IVTC, it either works fine, or I get stuttering - when I get stuttering, the OSD usually displays an unknown cadence (or, will fluctuate). Also, whenever I see stuttering, I always test with DScaler and it will show the same symptoms. Most of the time I see stuttering, it's on CBS broadcasts, which e-t172 has said are problematic. I don't know how to tell if a source is properly telecined, so I'll start to collect some more samples when I come across problems.

BTW: All of the telecined material I watch is from Windows Media Center 7 recordings (.wtv files). One thing I noticed about those recently: normally I use LAV splitter to play those through mpc-hc, but occasionally I need to use Microsoft's Stream Buffer Source splitter. When Microsoft's splitter is used, I cannot force madvr to switch to 24 or 23Hz. Renaming the files doesn't work - madVR will always switch to 59Hz. I thought that having 23p in the file name was supposed to override what the source splitter says? :confused:

[nlnl]

madshi
@Everyone, I'd love to get some feedback about the IVTC algorithm introduced in v0.80.

Please have а look at that:
Happy New Year!

Please have a look. This is file http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43376972/Cadence%2032322.mkv (DVD content) where Madvr detects (film mode) very exotic cadence (3:2:3:2:2).
Is the source content actually 25p transformed to 59,94i?
Shoud it be deinterlaced and decimated to 25p?
And that
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1546586#post1546586

And I forced film mode (ivtc) for pure video content 59i (music clip). Sometime madvr detects unknown cadence and sometime it steadily detects 2:2 cadence (like the source is 29p).

[madshi]

Two more hints about IVTC:

(1) For best results you should use a video decoder which properly forwards the telecine flags to madVR. Ideally use LAV Video Decoder or the madVR internal decoders. Do not use CoreAVC or ffdshow (at least not older ffdshow builds, not sure about the latest, it might be fixed there).
(2) Playback with 60Hz might not be optimal. If possible at all, try to playback at 24Hz.

@nlnl, that's not telecined material. It's some weird field blended stuff. IVTC cannot work for that.

@robpdotcom, samples would be great! Refresh rate switching doesn't play nice with IVTC atm.

[ikarad]

Two more hints about IVTC:

(1) For best results you should use a video decoder which properly forwards the telecine flags to madVR. Ideally use LAV Video Decoder or the madVR internal decoders. Do not use CoreAVC or ffdshow (at least not older ffdshow builds, not sure about the latest, it might be fixed there).
(2) Playback with 60Hz might not be optimal. If possible at all, try to playback at 24Hz.

@nlnl, that's not telecined material. It's some weird field blended stuff. IVTC cannot work for that.

@robpdotcom, samples would be great! Refresh rate switching doesn't play nice with IVTC atm.
@madshi
Thanks. RGB32 output with ffdshow works with madvr 0.8


Thanks. 3 questions


1) Problem with ivtc and ffdshow video decoder

If I use ffdshow video decoder, I can't use your ivtc.

I can use your ivtc only with your video decoder or lav video decoder.

Maybe it's a bug or not. But if it's not a bug is it possible to add support of ivtc with ffdshow H264 decoder?




2) When I use ivtc, mpc osd (in window mode) indicate 30 fps (fraps show 24fps i nwindows mode) and not 24 fps. Is it normal?
In ctrl+j here is:
deinterlacing on
film mode, cadence 3:2

3) in madvr here is in rendering settings:
adjust queue sizes to gpu ram size.

What means? By default it is checked. Is it good or not?

[Boltron]

In the never-ending quest for top notch quality… Are there any ATI users out there who have patched their Radeon cards to accept Firepro firmware in order to be able to output 10 bit color? If so, care to share your experience/comments?

[Paladin77]

it worked.setting decoder queue to 12 & rest of the queues & back buffer to 8 solved the problem.now i can play those 2 videos fine in full screen on 32" HD TV .
Glad its working for you. FWIW the specs in my sig are put as proof of concept that even a lower end system with somewhat acceptable specs can be a useful tool for testing.

@Madshi tried IVTC on some NTSC DVDs so far no problems, no artifacts, stuttering or glitches. ATI CCC video enhancements are OFF and Deinterlacing is set to Auto while pulldown detection is set to ON. Anything I should be looking for?

NB also a few pages back. I kinda requested a CPU/GPU percentage in OSD ONLY if its possible.

[JarrettH]

Is IVTC only good for television series? Aren't most DVDs progressive? I opened 3-4 I had and they all said 23.97 fps

[6233638]

@zmaster, just press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I twice to switch between limited <-> full range input.

@Everyone, I'd love to get some feedback about the IVTC algorithm introduced in v0.80. So far I've got a few complaints, which mostly seem to be caused by trying to IVTC material which wasn't properly telecined to start with. Does anybody use the new IVTC algorithm at all?? Does it work or does it not work? There's not a single "it works" or "it doesn't work" report for the most important purpose, namely 1080i60 broadcasts and NTSC DVDs.Unfortunately, I've mostly been watching Blu-ray recently, and not much of that either due to the holidays. It wasn't entirely clear to me, is the IVTC filter purely for decimating NTSC content to 24p, or should it work with any film content?

With the NTSC disc I tried, it's constantly dropping a large number of frames and playback is far from smooth. (so it's not just that it's counting the repeated frames that were dropped)

It does seem to have issues with PAL discs that I've tried. The Sweet Hereafter seems to be a good test for deinterlacers, as it now seems to mostly work correctly at 24Hz with IVTC, detecting the 2:2 cadence and having mostly smooth playback (previously all madVR deinterlacing at 24Hz was terrible) but at some points it changes to odd cadences such as 5:3:4:4, and there are still dropped frames every few minutes even when it sticks to 2:2. (but not constantly increasing) It's only using about 10% CPU on my system, so that doesn't seem to be it.

I also have some anime content which frankly, I don't know if it's supposed to be video/film (I would assume film) but it doesn't seem to be able to figure out the cadence (it does sometimes jump to 2:2 and 4:4 briefly) and I've not been able to get good playback with it no matter what deinterlacers I've tried. When playing back at 50Hz without IVTC enabled, it looks a whole lot better, but then I have PAL speed-up. I get the feeling this would be a lot easier if my TV supported 48Hz from the PC. :(

Samples (http://www.mediafire.com/?wslu6ul4u5mzp07)

Would it be possible to add an explicit 2:2 mode, or does that seem redundant?
In the never-ending quest for top notch quality… Are there any ATI users out there who have patched their Radeon cards to accept Firepro firmware in order to be able to output 10 bit color? If so, care to share your experience/comments?I'm not sure that there's any point to getting 10-bit out of the card when there's barely any software that will actually give it 10-bit data. Madshi has said that it should be possible to get 10-bit out of current cards in Fullscreen Exclusive mode in a future update. (which would use 10-bit precision from madVR)

Is IVTC only good for television series? Aren't most DVDs progressive? I opened 3-4 I had and they all said 23.97 fpsWhat decoder are you using? I've only ever seen DVDs played back as 29.97 or 25fps. Most films that are "29.97" are 23.98 with repeated frames (3:2) but you need something to perform IVTC to actually drop the repeated frames and play correctly.

[dukey]

It does seem to have issues with PAL discs that I've tried.
lol
IVTC is not for PAL.

[JarrettH]

What decoder are you using? I've only ever seen DVDs played back as 29.97 or 25fps. Most films that are "29.97" are 23.98 with repeated frames (3:2) but you need something to perform IVTC to actually drop the repeated frames and play correctly.

Just the libavcodec in ffdshow. I checked with mediainfo out of curiosity and it shows 23.97. When I playback in madvr it also shows 25 fps. Does having IVTC in the nvidia control panel work with madvr? :scared:

Now that I own a few television series (The Kingdom, Riget, The Office UK) I see that my GT 240 drops frames likes crazy. It's a 29.97 thing I noticed. Now when I playback 29.97 content I switch to yadif and disable deinterlacing in madvr.

[6233638]

lol
IVTC is not for PAL.PAL discs are unplayable at 24Hz using madVR's deinterlacer without it, at least with Nvidia cards.

[whitestar999]

Glad its working for you. FWIW the specs in my sig are put as proof of concept that even a lower end system with somewhat acceptable specs can be a useful tool for testing.


i have an older 256mb redeon 4570 card in other laptop & it can't play those 2 files smoothly in full screen on a full HD screen.according to notebookcheck graphics card ranking 4570 is more powerful than 3430 so could you please post your madvr settings & catalyst driver version you are using.

[nevcairiel]

What decoder are you using? I've only ever seen DVDs played back as 29.97 or 25fps. Most films that are "29.97" are 23.98 with repeated frames (3:2) but you need something to perform IVTC to actually drop the repeated frames and play correctly.

Soft-Telecine is somewhat present as well, which would show up as 23.976.

PAL discs are unplayable at 24Hz using madVR's deinterlacer without it, at least with Nvidia cards.

What.
PAL is usually speed up from 24p, its not telecined (only very rarely, and its questionable if madVR would manage to find a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 cadence).
IVTC will not help you to play these files/discs at 24p, only ReClock would.

In general however, PAL also uses Telecine, specifically to convert 25p progressive to 50i, a 2:2 cadence. IMHO, thats however of little importance for playback as a deinterlaced 50p stream also looks just fine. :)

[whitestar999]

@nevcairiel,i have an asus laptop with optimus & GT540M.it came with driver 268.56.the nvidia control panel only has 2 settings under video--video color & image.in video color settings color,gamma & advanced(limited & full dynamic range)are all set to video player settings & only way i can select between dynamic & full range is if i select color adjustment with nvidia setting instead of video player.in madvr i use 0-255 when watching on laptop screen & 16-235 when watching on LG HD TV connected through hdmi.is this correct or should i install graphics driver from nvidia.

[madshi]

@ikarad, please don't quote old posts of yourself. I always reply to every post, when I find the time for that. I'm not in that mode right now. Just trying to push IVTC tests atm.

@JarrettH, DVDs are often not reliable in their encoding. Sometimes they're encoded as 23.976 with telecine flags, sometimes they're encoded as an 29.940 interlaced stream, but rarely for the whole runtime of the movie. They often switch between soft- and hard-telecine. For that you need IVTC with decimation, if you want to play at 24Hz.

@6233638, it's supposed to work with any film content, including PAL and Anime. Anime content very often switches cadences from one scene to the next, or even from one movement section to another. E.g. camera pans are often 3:2, but if the camera doesn't move, you often have 5:5 or 8:7 or other cadences. It is not a sign of something going wrong if madVR switches cadences all the time, with Anime content. That said, most PAL Anime content is field blended and can't be IVTCed properly. Please only test with NTSC Anime content for now. As many samples as possible for problematic PAL non-Anime movie discs would be *much* appreciated.

@dukey, the term "IVTC" is usually used if you do cadence detection on film sources and then weave the correct fields together, instead of using some kind of video mode deinterlacing algorithm. And that is exactly what madVR does, for NTSC sources *and* for PAL and Anime sources, too. Of course for PAL sources madVR doesn't decimate, but it just does cadence detection, bad edit detection and weaving.

@nevcairiel, do you have a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 sample? I'm pretty sure that the madVR algorithm would be potentially able to identify such a cadence, too. It just doesn't look for cadences that long atm.

[nevcairiel]

@nevcairiel, do you have a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 sample? I'm pretty sure that the madVR algorithm would be potentially able to identify such a cadence, too. It just doesn't look for cadences that long atm.

According to some sources i found its been getting some more attention as of late as apparently the mastering people noticed that speed up is less then optimal. Sadly, no-one names some DVDs that are mastered like that. :)

I can dig a bit, but sadly its not as simple as looking at the mediainfo of such a disc. :D

[FlashGordon]

madshi, I can't get IVTC to work when I disable deinterlacing in madVR's settings either. With deinterlacing on, and manually turning on IVTC everything seems fine but MPC-HC reports a framerate of ~29.97. Using DScaler mod it'll report the correct FPS at ~23.976. Is there a reason why deinterlacing must be on for IVTC to work?

[madshi]

@nevcairiel, I'll just add support for such long cadences "blindly", then maybe a madVR user will find and provide a sample.

@FlashGordon, interlaced content handling is a very complex thing. There is telecined movie content, native video content, anime content and mixed content. Ideally, a deinterlacer should automatically detect the content type and apply the correct algorithm (either "IVTC" or "video mode deinterlacing"), and that even per pixel. There needs to be a term which describes the "interlaced -> progressive" conversion for all types of material, and madVR will be using the term "deinterlacing" for that. So basically "IVTC" is a sub-category of "deinterlacing". And "video mode deinterlacing" is also a sub-category of "deinterlacing". This means that first of all you need to tell madVR that a conversion from interlaced -> progressive is needed. Then in the next step someone (either madVR or you) needs to decide which algorithm to use for that (either "IVTC" or "video mode deinterlacing"). Consequently you first need to enable "deinterlacing". That just means you want madVR to convert interlaced material (film or video) into progressive material. In the future, hopefully madVR will be able to automatically make all these decisions on its own. For now you need to help by manually choosing what you want/need.

[6233638]

What.
PAL is usually speed up from 24p, its not telecined (only very rarely, and its questionable if madVR would manage to find a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 cadence).
IVTC will not help you to play these files/discs at 24p, only ReClock would.I know that it's just 24p sped-up (or at least should be) and I do use ReClock to fix the speed.

However, when I enable madVR's deinterlacer at 24Hz, it does terrible things to the image. (flickering, combing, framerate drops etc.) Enabling IVTC and having it detect the 2:2 cadence (mostly) fixes this, however the 2:2 detection is not perfect. With the 5:4:4:3 sample posted above, I'm almost certain that whole film should be 2:2, and it's just that something is tripping up the cadence detection. That's why I'm wondering if there could be a "force 2:2" mode.

Letting LAV Video's CUVID deinterlace rather than madVR (without IVTC) avoids some of the visual artefacts, but has serious stuttering problems.
LAV Video's YADIF seems to work well for some discs, but not others. It tends to suffer from flicker and aliasing a lot more frequently.

Unfortunately with deinterlacing, how things are supposed to work often isn't what actually does. (unless there's something I'm missing)

In general however, PAL also uses Telecine, specifically to convert 25p progressive to 50i, a 2:2 cadence. IMHO, thats however of little importance for playback as a deinterlaced 50p stream also looks just fine. :)If you are deinterlacing as 50p, aren't you halving the resolution with progressive (film) content?

With CUVID deinterlacing selecting 50p doesn't help, and with YADIF at 50p with the following sample, every frame has combing.

I'm sure that I've posted it before, or a similar sample, but here's a longer one from The Sweet Hereafter—I'm using that one a lot as it seems to be one of the most problematic discs I've tried. This sample sticks to 2:2 with IVTC enabled, as it should, but shows off exactly what goes wrong without IVTC at 24Hz. (unfortunately without any audio, Reclock won't load so it will drop one frame every second at 24Hz)

http://www.mediafire.com/?mxremvoqowk6mkw

Make sure your display is at 24Hz and not 48/50/60 before you test it. (25Hz may also work without adding that framedrop, but my display doesn't support it)

It deinterlaces fine at 50Hz—but then it's sped up, and my screen doesn't accept 48Hz.

@6233638, it's supposed to work with any film content, including PAL and Anime. Anime content very often switches cadences from one scene to the next, or even from one movement section to another. E.g. camera pans are often 3:2, but if the camera doesn't move, you often have 5:5 or 8:7 or other cadences. It is not a sign of something going wrong if madVR switches cadences all the time, with Anime content. That said, most PAL Anime content is field blended and can't be IVTCed properly. Please only test with NTSC Anime content for now. As many samples as possible for problematic PAL non-Anime movie discs would be *much* appreciated.Thanks for the reply. I don't really have much Anime stuff at all, it never really interested me until recently when I heard about things like Planetes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetes) which (so far) seems to be Sci-fi that is more grounded in reality rather than the more "Japanese" stuff out there, or dealing with aliens etc. so I probably won't have many more samples, and I don't plan on importing anything. (though I've had some "PAL" DVDs actually be 29.97 on the disc before)

I don't have a huge selection of DVD films left any more, most have been replaced with Blu-ray, but I'll definitely go through them to see if I can find any other troublesome titles to post samples from. Almost all will be PAL, as I stopped bothering to import since building a HTPC and using ReClock.

[Paladin77]

i have an older 256mb redeon 4570 card in other laptop & it can't play those 2 files smoothly in full screen on a full HD screen.according to notebookcheck graphics card ranking 4570 is more powerful than 3430 so could you please post your madvr settings & catalyst driver version you are using.
Catalyst Version: latest 11.12 from AMD website.
MadVR settings: Scaling Algorithm: Bicubic 75 (less ringing, less resource load) and works like a charm on anime content (especially dark themed ones).
CPU queue: 12 (twelve).
GPU queue: 6 (six).
Backbuffer and ahead frames in windowed and fullscreen (respectively): 8 (eight).

Note: I lowered GPU queue on this system only being a lower end one. On other systems I generally don't mess with said queue.

Also as for your GPU driver. I prefer you check your laptop vendor website before downloading the Reference drivers from Nvidia website. http://in.asus.com/Notebooks/Versatile_Performance/K53SV/#download if the last update was too old (and newer changelogs in Nvidia website show serious improvement then you can contemplate using reference drivers. Otherwise it isn't generally recommended).

[nevcairiel]

If you are deinterlacing as 50p, aren't you halving the resolution with progressive (film) content?

Not if the deinterlacer is doing a good job.
At least the HW deinterlaces have cadence detection (or are supposed to), and if everything is working right, it should detect the 2:2 cadence and output the same frame twice if i ask it for 50p.

[madshi]

It's true that DXVA should in theory be able to properly handle PAL IVTC. Unfortunately, at least my ATI cards mistake some PAL movies as video content and apply video mode deinterlacing instead of IVTC. There's no control with DXVA, you can't even ask which mode the GPU is using. I think madVR's IVTC (after some tweaking) should beat ATI/NVidia's IVTC solution in quality/reliability, plus madVR's solution properly decimates, says what it does and can be controlled manually.

@6233638, your PAL Animes all seem to be field blended, so IVTC won't work on them. Your Sweet Hereafter samples are good. The 5:4:4:3 error should be easy to fix. Basically the current madVR version switches cadences too quickly right now. madVR should exit a found and confirmed cadence only if there is strong evidence that it's necessary. Implementing that should fix the 5:4:4:3 problem.

[FlashGordon]

madshi, is there a reason why the frame rate is still reported as 29.97 when I turn IVTC on? I've done further testing on hard telecined film material in 24hz mode using both LAV Video and ffdshow in MPC-HC, and while the playback is smooth (and looks like 23.976 fps) it is being reported as 29.97. I use ReClock so it is a minor issue for me, with Dscaler's IVTC I get 23.976 FPS reported correctly.

On another note, I think this may have been brought up before, but it would be great if madvr would remember the last setting regarding Video mode or Film mode for deinterlacing; I mostly watch films so it save me having to Ctrl alt shift T every time

[6233638]

@6233638, your PAL Animes all seem to be field blended, so IVTC won't work on them.Good to know. I guess there's no way to properly deinterlace them and avoid flickering then?

Your Sweet Hereafter samples are good. The 5:4:4:3 error should be easy to fix. Basically the current madVR version switches cadences too quickly right now. madVR should exit a found and confirmed cadence only if there is strong evidence that it's necessary. Implementing that should fix the 5:4:4:3 problem.Excellent!


Update: A new sample for you:
http://www.mediafire.com/?cicxx9u4crfkb5o

Cadence is detected as 3:2, but there's a lot of flickering/aliasing and combing. Not sure if this is something going wrong with the deinterlacing or if it's a really bad source. (it's a really bad film, so I wouldn't be surprised!)

[LigH]

@nevcairiel, do you have a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 sample? I'm pretty sure that the madVR algorithm would be potentially able to identify such a cadence, too. It just doesn't look for cadences that long atm.

Do it yourself:

scharfis_brain – exotisches Interlacing 2.2.1b (http://home.arcor.de/scharfis_brain/ExotischesInterlacing/#2.2.1b): Telecine without PAL speedup, interlaced

Simulate with:
AVISource("24fpsFilm.avi")
ChangeFPS(50).SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4,0,3).Weave()

[nlnl]

madshi
Another sample of 3:2:3:2:2 cadence in NTSC dvd (in mkv). If madvr in film mode we see combing and everything is good in video mode.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43376972/Cadence%2032322%20num2.mkv

And a patent on 2:2 cadence detection
http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Cadence-detection-interlaced-video-based/WO2011120600A1.pdf

[dukey]

Automatic IVTC is one of the hardest topics in video. A lot of TV especially are just an insane mix of 24/30fps content. 30fps fades, and post production at 30fps. Even if you can IVTC properly you can be left with residual interlacing from the fact the 2 fields were encoded separately then put back together. So sometimes you'll need to deinterlace even after IVTC. The situation is not so bad on DVD since normally they use pull down flags.

[secvensor]

Error in MPC-HC:
on
when pressing
Hoot-Key "PageDown"

[JarrettH]

There I deleted it for you...

[CruNcher]

@madshi
are there plans for a Sync Graph like MPC-HC (Gothsyncs implementation) has it the diagnostics display is nice (numbers) but a Graph makes it much easier to see issues either inside the stream or system related almost in realtime (depending on the latency) im really surprised how much stream,decoder,system related issues i could immediately spot now having low enough render latency and no other noise around :) see http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1548381&postcount=351

having a similar "Realtime" Graphical representation for madvr would be really nice :)

[THX-UltraII]

Hoi Madshi :cool:

Since 0.80 I have some lip sync issues. Most of the times I don t have problems but I get lip sync issues when I pauze and start playing again. To solve this I have to pauze/play a few times until it the video/audio is in sync again. Didn t had this problem with 0.79. How can I help to find out what causes this in 0.80?

[Razoola]

Hoi Madshi :cool:

Since 0.80 I have some lip sync issues. Most of the times I don t have problems but I get lip sync issues when I pauze and start playing again. To solve this I have to pauze/play a few times until it the video/audio is in sync again. Didn t had this problem with 0.79. How can I help to find out what causes this in 0.80?

I found I had lip sync issue with 080 if I had 'overshoot max frame latency' checked in the full screen exclusive mode settings. Disabling that fixed lipsync problems but caused stutters and real bad presentation glitches. I had to go back to 079.

Madshi has not commented on my issue with 080 yet (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1546614&postcount=11633) but I am sure he has seen it. I feel he wants to get IVTC issues sorted first.

[nlnl]

madshi
In every NTSC film (DVD) I played Madvr very well detects 3:2 cadence.
In three cases it detects 3:2:3:2:2 cadence (posted sample above).

And here is a sample of exotic 4:4 cadence in 50i container (animation). Madvr detects it very well! So in fact this animation is 12,5p film (after IVTC)?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43376972/cadence%204%204.mkv

[FlashGordon]

@madshi

I watched a few silent films on DVD last night (these sometimes have odd cadences, I think because the transfer is done at a rate less than 24) and your IVTC algorithm worked very well. It cycled through 4:3:3, 3:3:2:2, and an 'unknown' cadence and it looked very smooth. Before, with DScaler, it would detect only 3:2 and decimate to 24 but I'd still get combing, so I was forced to deinterlace film content. Not anymore... thanks for the feature!

[mikewando]

This isn't exactly related to the renderer per se, but I figured this thread might be the best place to ask.

Is there any way the deinterlacing and IVTC used in madVR could be leveraged for encoding (e.g. avisynth filter)? It seems to me that it would make sense to use the GPU to deinterlace while the CPU encodes, and madVR has shown that the GPU is up to the task, but I couldn't really find anything that would really work like this.

Just a thought, but it's a little annoying to watch a transport stream be perfectly IVTC'd by madVR, while being forced to use slow filters that eat up CPU for encoding.

[Plutotype]

I found I had lip sync issue with 080 if I had 'overshoot max frame latency' checked in the full screen exclusive mode settings. Disabling that fixed lipsync problems but caused stutters and real bad presentation glitches. I had to go back to 079.

Madshi has not commented on my issue with 080 yet (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1546614&postcount=11633) but I am sure he has seen it. I feel he wants to get IVTC issues sorted first.

0.80 - Watched a 100min blu-ray today with the same settings as usual and at the end of the movie, the lipsync issue was definately there. CPU 5-7%, pls see my specs. I did watch the same file already in december with no issues ( 0.79 ), so maybe something really went wrong with 0.80 in this area.

[6233638]

0.80 - Watched a 100min blu-ray today with the same settings as usual and at the end of the movie, the lipsync issue was definately there. CPU 5-7%, pls see my specs. I did watch the same file already in december with no issues ( 0.79 ), so maybe something really went wrong with 0.80 in this area.Are you only having lip-sync issues with Blu-ray? If so, are you starting the video with the "index.bdmv" file, or the .m2ts video file?

While using LAV Filters has enabled me to start a film using the index.bdmv file (previously it wouldn't work) I find that it causes lip-sync problems, when playing the .m2ts file directly does not, so I suspect it might be a LAV Filters issue rather than madVR. (but I haven't tested either in isolation so I couldn't say for sure)

I found I had lip sync issue with 080 if I had 'overshoot max frame latency' checked in the full screen exclusive mode settings. Disabling that fixed lipsync problems but caused stutters and real bad presentation glitches. I had to go back to 079.What driver version are you using?

I'm definitely back to having problems getting smooth playback again, but then I am also on beta Nvidia drivers. I really should test to see whether it's the drivers or a change in madVR (by coincidence, new versions of madVR are often close to driver releases) but it's annoying either way, as I can't stick to WHQL drivers if I want to play the latest games.

[nevcairiel]

While using LAV Filters has enabled me to start a film using the index.bdmv file (previously it wouldn't work) I find that it causes lip-sync problems, when playing the .m2ts file directly does not, so I suspect it might be a LAV Filters issue rather than madVR. (but I haven't tested either in isolation so I couldn't say for sure)

If changing madVR version fixes his sync issues, how is that the splitters fault? :D