madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mytbyte]

I'm quite certain my GTX960 4GB can't switch to UHD 4:4:4 12 bit @60 Hz...

[huhn]

I'm not understanding, so are you telling me that nvidia can change madvr setup "automatically" ?

no it can't do that you need a profile for it. don't think to much about it.

BTW the nvidia setting doesn't do anything the last time >i< checked. if you send 10 bit to the GPU driver it was sending 12 bit to the screen when possible even when set to 8 bit. my current TV doesn't tell me the input type so i can't do new tests.

BTW if you guys have so much trouble with banding try 6-7 bit it's hard for bad processing to add banding there. and no this is not a bad joke and no dithered 6 bit is fine not perfect in term of banding.

and when we are already talking about bit deep stuff it should be possible to change the EDID in a way that it reports the TV only supports up to 10 bit in this case nvidia doesn't have a chance and has to send 10 bit.

[pirlouy]

@huhn: I'm not interested but just curious. Is it possible to analyze EDID TV report with some tool and verify if TV supports 8/10/12 bits (I mean through EDID info) or they all accept 12 bits in EDID whereas it's not true in reality ?

[Asmodian]

Yes, madVR's "identification" shows the EDID info. My TV reports 8bit, 10bit, and 12bit for supported bitdepths but really it isn't very good at anything over 8-bit (2017 LG OLED).

I'm quite certain my GTX960 4GB can't switch to UHD 4:4:4 12 bit @60 Hz...

Just use 8bit RGB @60Hz. :rolleyes:

[brazen1]

I'm quite certain my GTX960 4GB can't switch to UHD 4:4:4 12 bit @60 Hz...

And it shouldn't. Nothing can. Anything above 30Hz is not within the current HDMI spec.

[mytbyte]

And it shouldn't. Nothing can. Anything above 30Hz is not within the current HDMI spec.

I know, but wasn't it you who said above that it works with your GTX 960? :eek:

[brazen1]

I know, but wasn't it you who said above that it works with your GTX 960? :eek:

No. I have my desktop set at 60hz 8bit and I match refresh rates at 10bit, usually 23.976 as studios intended them to be played. An occasional 25fps title usually from Europe eBay. All within HDMI specs below 30Hz. Everything is and has been in my sig below.

I think a lot of this fervor surrounding 60Hz is because some displays are limited to it and require it to produce a semi watchable picture vastly improved using madVR fixes. Fortunately, madshi supplied them. I'm all for it and support it although I have no need for these fixes since my display is 120Hz, thus I can use native source rates fluent. The general consensus here does not apply to all users. Those just getting to understand madVR and settings in conjunction with it should be informed imo. To raise fists and start name calling when a spade is called a spade is not becoming nor informative.

[Hammmersmashface]

Since we are on the topic of colorspaces i have a samsung 6 series 55 inch (mu6300) i5 3570k(overclocked to 4.8) 32gigs of ram on a asus p8z77lk with a rx 560 on windows 10 now idk if im not doig something right or what but i have my amd color settings set to 10bit full rgb and res is at 23.97585 but now when using mpchc or jriver no matter what i get stuck with 4:2:0 ..res is still at 23.97585 output is 10bit the only way i can get it to output 4:4:4 while whatching a movie is to use dxva copy back if i use native or d3d11 no matter what it always defaults to 4:2:0 and won't budge ..now id be totally fine with copy back if I could have not offload to the cpu cuz there is no reason for it at all...not only that if i say switch to 4:4:4 i get micro stuttering and it off synchs the audio but about 2 seconds...no dropped frames just the ques wont fill .4:2:2 will play fine ..i just wanna know if im doing something wrong or . missing something...sorry im on my phone at work so i can't give screenshots atm but i can explain anything that maybe needed as far as my setup gos...im connected from gpu into my sony 7.2 receiver (which supports 4k hdr 8-10-12 bits 4:2:2 and 4:4:4@24/30/50/60) then into my tv

[Clammerz]

i get stuck with 4:2:0

How do you know you are "stuck with 4:2:0"? Are you looking at the MadVR OSD? You may be looking at the wrong information. If you can post a screenshot (link to image sharing site) that may help clear up any misunderstanding.
(Paragraphing your post will make it easier to read for others)

[Hammmersmashface]

How do you know you are "stuck with 4:2:0"? Are you looking at the MadVR OSD? You may be looking at the wrong information. If you can post a screenshot (link to image sharing site) that may help clear up any misunderstanding.
(Paragraphing your post will make it easier to read for others)

Sorry about that i was just tryig to type quickly before i had to get back into work I get off in a couple hours will post shots soon as i get home

[tobindac]

So, did anyone ever answer why sometimes the "1 frame skipped/repeated every X seconds" is sometimes shown and sometimes not shown on the HUD? Where does it depend on to be shown or not shown at all as info?

[huhn]

it needs time to get calculated. it may have to do with your audio renderer too.

[mclingo]

Since we are on the topic of colorspaces i have a samsung 6 series 55 inch (mu6300) i5 3570k(overclocked to 4.8) 32gigs of ram on a asus p8z77lk with a rx 560 on windows 10 now idk if im not doig something right or what but i have my amd color settings set to 10bit full rgb and res is at 23.97585 but now when using mpchc or jriver no matter what i get stuck with 4:2:0 ..res is still at 23.97585 output is 10bit the only way i can get it to output 4:4:4 while whatching a movie is to use dxva copy back if i use native or d3d11 no matter what it always defaults to 4:2:0 and won't budge ..now id be totally fine with copy back if I could have not offload to the cpu cuz there is no reason for it at all...not only that if i say switch to 4:4:4 i get micro stuttering and it off synchs the audio but about 2 seconds...no dropped frames just the ques wont fill .4:2:2 will play fine ..i just wanna know if im doing something wrong or . missing something...sorry im on my phone at work so i can't give screenshots atm but i can explain anything that maybe needed as far as my setup gos...im connected from gpu into my sony 7.2 receiver (which supports 4k hdr 8-10-12 bits 4:2:2 and 4:4:4@24/30/50/60) then into my tv

is your TV in PC mode, if not some TV's will lock you mode at 4:2:0. I have my TV's HDMI set to Bluray, in this mode my GFX card locks at 4:2:0 when i chose 10bit. If I drop to 8 bit colour space it opens it out again.

I use bluray setting on my TV as motion controls are disabled in PC mode.

I'm using an RX 550 and find no loss of image quality on my TV when using my desktop colour space set to 4:2:0 60hz, real world viewing anyway, dont doubt there would be some minor differences in slides but the convenience of having everything running without having to create CRU's and profiles works better for me.

As a test, set your desktop colour space to 4:2:0 60hz and see if your problems disappear.

The alternative would be to sack of 10bit and stick with 8bit as most people on here would recommend.

[njfoses]

sony TVs are usually able to motion interpolate and keeping 4:4:4...

The newer Sonys only display 4:4:4 in game or graphics mode. While in either of these modes you can only adjust BFI. Motion interpolation settings are grayed out.

[mclingo]

everything is greyed out on my LG OLED (2015) model

[nevcairiel]

My 2012 Sony also disables motion interpolation in 4:4:4 mode, I would wager that most displays actually do that.

[Manni]

My 2012 Sony also disables motion interpolation in 4:4:4 mode, I would wager that most displays actually do that.

That might be true for flat panels, but my JVC projector is happy to do motion interpolation with 4:4:4, either 12bits 24p or 8bits 60p.

[mytbyte]

Panasonics don't do MCFI in 4:4:4 as well...only they call it 4K/1080p direct mode so that's probably the logic of a direct signal path, like direct on AVRs - you're not supposed to touch it, to the extent that 24Hz input is pulled down to 60 Hz because it's can't natively sync to 24Hz but must do some motion processing...What would be the difference between a flat panel and a projector in that regard...price vs expectations? :devil:

[mrmojo666]

just to understand, as motion interpolation do you mean soap opera effect mode ? are you all using that for movies?

[mytbyte]

just to understand, as motion interpolation do you mean soap opera effect mode ? are you all using that for movies?Motion interpolation in the sense of producing a framerate that looks smooth instead of stepped compared to original, yes.There are other motion compensated algorithms that reduce the blur but keep the original framerate, on many panels it is required to have proper pulldown-free 24 hz....

[mclingo]

I use motion just to smooth out the wobbly edges on panning shots you get, mainly on white or bright elements, this can look quite bad on an OLED as there is no smudging between frames like you get on an LCD which can make panning shots look smoother as the response time is slower.

I apply 3/10 on my 2015 OLED and it smoothes everything out nicely whilst giving no discernible soap opera effect. Above 3, then things start to look odd but 3 is the perfect sweet spot for me. I would recommend this for anyone with an OLED 2015/2016 model, I cant speak for later models.

[mytbyte]

@mclingo: smuding has largely to do with sample-and-hold principle, not response time ...OLEDs are measured not to be better than an LCD, regardless of their quick pixel response...it's hard to recognize from your case if you're seeing 3:2 pulldown wobbliness that the processing is converting to proper 24Hz motion

[mclingo]

@mclingo: smuding has largely to do with sample-and-hold principle, not response time ...OLEDs are measured not to be better than an LCD, regardless of their quick pixel response...it's hard to recognize from your case if you're seeing 3:2 pulldown wobbliness that the processing is converting to proper 24Hz motion

response times are generally a lot lower on OLEDs, see here.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/motion-blur-and-response-time

[mytbyte]

response times are generally a lot lower on OLEDs, see here.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/motion-blur-and-response-time

Several magnitudes lower, yes...but, response time contributes to motion blur if it largely exceeds single frame display time...if LCD response doesn't exceed this time, motion blur is basically the same on OLED and LCD due to sample-and-hold principle...33.3 ms is gross, not sure if there is an LCD these days that's as bad...

[FDisk80]

nVidia 391.01 driver broke custom refresh modes for me. Anyone else seeing this?

[Asmodian]

Several magnitudes lower, yes...but, response time contributes to motion blur if it largely exceeds single frame display time...if LCD response doesn't exceed this time, motion blur is basically the same on OLED and LCD due to sample-and-hold principle...33.3 ms is gross, not sure if there is an LCD these days that's as bad...

It is actually half a frame, over half a frame response time starts to contribute blur beyond that created by our eyes tracking motion. However, most LCDs today do better than 8ms average response time (for 60fps content), TN and IPS are never that high. Only xVA panels have some transitions that take longer.

[mytbyte]

And then you have overdrive :devil:

[jkauff]

nVidia 391.01 driver broke custom refresh modes for me. Anyone else seeing this?
Yes, although the optimization settings were still there in madVR. I had to re-initialize everything, and it took several reboots before the settings stuck. All working now, though.

[njfoses]

My 2012 Sony also disables motion interpolation in 4:4:4 mode, I would wager that most displays actually do that.

Do you personally prioritize 4:4:4 for video content?

[FDisk80]

Yes, although the optimization settings were still there in madVR. I had to re-initialize everything, and it took several reboots before the settings stuck. All working now, though.

How? It doesn't work for me at all.
Even in nvidia control panel the custom settings do not stick.
I even used DDU and clean installed the 391.01 driver. Same issue.

[nevcairiel]

Do you personally prioritize 4:4:4 for video content?

Its really quite a personal choice if you prefer 4:4:4 over 4:2:2, or if you like the motion interpolation of your TV. On the highest settings the motion interpolation IMHO looks terrible, but on lower settings it can result in a smoother image without making it a soap opera or introducing artifacts.

That said, I do currently use it in 4:4:4 mode.

[ryrynz]

nVidia 391.01 driver broke custom refresh modes for me. Anyone else seeing this?

Yeah, I forgot about checking this after I updated. Seems liks nearly any update to the Nvidia drivers breaks custom modes. Even trying to reenter it again wasn't taking so.. doing an uninstall/reinstall combo to resolve.. annoying.
Those idiots have broken custom resolutions again.. reverting back to 390.77

[Asmodian]

It is very strange but custom modes still work for me with 391.01, at least I can modify my 23.976 Hz mode and it is still being used. :confused:

[Manni]

nVidia 391.01 driver broke custom refresh modes for me. Anyone else seeing this?

They seem to be working fine here (4K23 custom showing as custom 4K24 in CP after a reboot), but I always do a clean install after a DDU and recreate them, so you might want to try that.

[FDisk80]

They seem to be working fine here (4K23 custom showing as custom 4K24 in CP after a reboot), but I always do a clean install after a DDU and recreate them, so you might want to try that.

I did, this is a clean install after DDU in safe mode.
It's not working.
I'm trying to set 1080P resolution with 23.976hz refresh rate. It's not sticking not in nvidia control panel and not in madvr. madvr says rejected by driver or something like that and the only option after that is to cancel all the changes I made.

It worked fine with previous driver.

[Manni]

I don't use 1080p except for 3D so can't comment on that, but it seems to be working fine at 4K.

[FDisk80]

I don't use 1080p except for 3D so can't comment on that, but it seems to be working fine at 4K.

I didn't even check Active 3D, it's probably also busted.

Edit: Surprisingly 3D works fine.

[Manni]

I didn't even check Active 3D, it's probably also busted.

Well, if you can make custom res for 1080p23FP (3D), I'd like to know how. :)

I get a frame drop every 3mn with the default 3D, so not really usable for me, and I've not been able to create a custom res for it.

Just to clarify, you are using MadVR itself to create/edit custom res, not nVidia's CP or CRU, correct?

[jkauff]

How? It doesn't work for me at all.
Even in nvidia control panel the custom settings do not stick.
I even used DDU and clean installed the 391.01 driver. Same issue.
I did a Delete/Add for each custom resolution. My reasoning was that using the Test mode to force the display into that resolution might help. Then I did a reboot each time.

You could try that, if you haven't already.

EDIT: You should get rid of your Nvidia Control Panel custom settings first.

[mclingo]

For those that were flumaxed as to why I was using 420, to clarify further.

I was using 420 because when i switched my AMD driver to 10 bit this was all that was available, it was locked at 420.

I've just done a full clean install of the latest driver and now 422 is available so i'll stick with this as I need motion interpolcation.

[FDisk80]

Well, if you can make custom res for 1080p23FP (3D), I'd like to know how. :)

I get a frame drop every 3mn with the default 3D, so not really usable for me, and I've not been able to create a custom res for it.

Just to clarify, you are using MadVR itself to create/edit custom res, not nVidia's CP or CRU, correct?

I tried both madVR and CP, the settings do not stick after you run the test. madVR spits an error and CP just gets stuck at default 24hz no matter what changes you make to get closer to 23.976hz and deletes that setup when you go back to 60hz.

[FDisk80]

I did a Delete/Add for each custom resolution. My reasoning was that using the Test mode to force the display into that resolution might help. Then I did a reboot each time.

You could try that, if you haven't already.

EDIT: You should get rid of your Nvidia Control Panel custom settings first.

madVR doesn't even save the changes I make so there is nothing to apply after reboot.

And nvidia colntrol panel doesn't save anything anyway. The list is empty after you switch back to 60hz. So there is nothing to delete.

Edit:
This is the error that I get when I try to tweak the settings to get perfect 1080P@23.976hz

https://i.imgur.com/11brC9Q.png

Doing this worked fine with previous driver. nVidia changed something and broke it.

And this is what happens after making a new custom resolution with nVidia Control Panel.

https://i.imgur.com/hrm8sv9.png

Nothing happens, the list is just empty after applying the changes.

[Manni]

The Nvidia CP never worked for me, I tried to use it to create 1080p23FP (3D) custom res and it doesn't save anything.

MadVR custom res (At least the one I made for 4K) sticks though with 391.01.

[FDisk80]

The Nvidia CP never worked for me, I tried to use it to create 1080p23FP (3D) custom res and it doesn't save anything.

MadVR custom res (At least the one I made for 4K) sticks though with 391.01.

Yea, for Active 3D it NEVER worked. It switches to some crazy refresh rate. Something like 23.777 or 23.985, something random. And I never could fix that for 3D.

But it always worked fine for 2D @1080P
This HDTV is not 4K so I can't test 4K.

[Grimsdyke]

I tried both madVR and CP, the settings do not stick after you run the test. madVR spits an error and CP just gets stuck at default 24hz no matter what changes you make to get closer to 23.976hz and deletes that setup when you go back to 60hz.

I am having the same issues here with a Intel GPU at 47.952 and 48hz ! I can have one perfect but not both at the same time.

[kolak]

Sorry for asking but it's impossible to follow this thread- to big :)

Does current madVR pass full display mastering info to HDMI on GTX 1080? Is there a way to "see it", other than some HDMI analyser?

Can anyone confirm that this actually is used (for example I can flag P3 gamut instead of Rec.2020) by HDR TVs eg. Samsung KS8000?

[Manni]

Sorry for asking but it's impossible to follow this thread- to big :)

Does current madVR pass full display mastering info to HDMI on GTX 1080? Is there a way to "see it", other than some HDMI analyser?

Can anyone confirm that this actually is used (for example I can flag P3 gamut instead of Rec.2020) by HDR TVs eg. Samsung KS8000?

MadVR passes through mastering metadata if you are using passthrough mode or process mode, but not convert to sdr.

What the display does with this information is up to each display.

If you want to inject specific metadata you’ll have to use another device, as far as I know MadVR doesn’t allow custom injection.

[kolak]

Thank you.
Yes, I'm mainly interested in Pass Through mode. So if file has some meaningful metadata then it's passed. If metadata is missing or "bad" then it's replaced with some default one (do we know what it's?).
In the same time there is no way to specify "custom" metadata which would overwrite original one in the file.

Yes, there are tools for this, like HDFury box or AJA converter:

http://mixinglight.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/AJA-HDR_Settings.jpg


Do you know if HDR TVs really use this metadata?
All sample files made for TV manufactures seems to have them.
In the same time when you play file inside TV (through its own player) mastering info seems to be fully ignored, at least on Samsung KS8000. I don't know if this is different in case of signal coming over HDMI.

Do you also know if Pass Through mode is 100% "lossless" except format conversion (e.g. YUV420 10bit to YUV422 10bit). I'm interested in mode which will guarantee me that signal is really passed without any unnecessary "touches". I would also rather prefer to stay in YUV and let TV convert this internally.

[nevcairiel]

Do you also know if Pass Through mode is 100% "lossless" except format conversion (e.g. YUV420 10bit to YUV422 10bit). I'm interested in mode which will guarantee me that signal is really passed without any unnecessary "touch". I would also rather prefer to stay in YUV and let TV convert this internally.

PCs cannot stay in YUV. Its always RGB at some point. Basically you always have to feed RGB to the GPU, even if the GPU then outputs YUV again (which should therefor be avoided, if possible).

[kolak]

Hmmm... this is interesting and bit "crap", specially when many modes for HDMI are only possible as YUV.
I assume RGB<->YUV conversions are accurate.

I'm sure I've read that LAV passes all HDR metadata from x265 encoded and flagged streams, so we should have precise path (except those YUV<->RGB conversions).