madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Joniii]

I spent a day trying to figure out why the colours on my TV suddenly seem to be way off when using HTPC. I finally figured out what the cause is, but I don't know if it's a problem with madVR or user. This only happens with madVR, on other renderers everything works fine. Adrenalin pixel format is YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit

The problem is that if I watch for example Sony 4k Another World demo the colours are overly bright. Video is 8bit BT.709 and plays fine on a window but when MPC-HC enters full screen the TV detects video as BT.2020 and auto switches to BT.2020. This happens on all BT.709 UHD files I've tested and only with madVR. Other colour ranges work fine on madVR ie TV detects those correctly and switches to matching range. If I change the renderer in MPC-HC into something else then the TV detects it correctly as BT.709. This seems to be happening only when i have set the output in Adrenalin to 10bit (4:2:2) on 8bit (4:2:2) and madVR works fine.

[huhn]

that sounds more like a problem in the AMD driver madVR is currently not able to tell the driver to tell the end device to switch between bt 2020 and if the driver does that as it wants to and that differently between full screen and windowed that just the driver doing what it want's to do.

[Klaus1189]

all the Samsung 2020 models are still 8-bit + FRC

not true (https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/42ff120a)

[Joniii]

that sounds more like a problem in the AMD driver madVR is currently not able to tell the driver to tell the end device to switch between bt 2020 and if the driver does that as it wants to and that differently between full screen and windowed that just the driver doing what it want's to do.

But it works fine on other renderers. This is just with madVR. Also madVR + AMD GPU works correctly with BT.2020 UHD videos that have BT.2020 (when entering full screen the TV switches correctly from whatever the desktop is using to the one on the video)

[huhn]

are you and other renderer using 10 bit rendering (which only works in full screen)

[Joniii]

are you and other renderer using 10 bit rendering (which only works in full screen)

Good question, maybe the others won't use 10bit at all.

Well maybe I should consider Nvidia if this is only with Radeon GPU's. I just still hate Nvidia because they bought 3DFX and after that dropped driver support for my 3DFX Voodoo3 3000 GPU so I've been using Radeon ever since. I hate them even more than Apple hates them :)

But it's still strange that with madVR all the other color space formats work fine and TV switches to corresponding setting.

[huhn]

i will test this later. but in general they are all worth hating.

[Joniii]

i will test this later. but in general they are all worth hating.

Yeah they are :)

Thank you.

This is small sample from problematic file.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ath_q56vIKVai90oNtfQ0sIwr7X1oA?e=jhvMAL

[VBB]

I just still hate Nvidia because they bought 3DFX and after that dropped driver support for my 3DFX Voodoo3 3000 GPU so I've been using Radeon ever since. I hate them even more than Apple hates them :)

That is some long and strong hate right there ;). I feel you, though. Without Voodoo, Nvidia would not be in the position it is in today. I remember my 1st and 2nd gen Voodoos fondly, hence my avatar (for those who remember the few games that supported Glide natively).

[huhn]

doesn't trigger anything here.
i need more information like D3D11 FSE? what mode is exactly used?

my next guess would be HDMI content ID which should be an option in your TV mien is disable and i'm not going to activated it again.

both my Panasonic and Sony could be controlled by just changing a setting in the nvidia control panel AFAIK there is no way to disable this on AMD.

[biship]

Todays NVIDIA Driver:
Changes and Fixed Issues in Version 456.38
[madVR][MPC-HC]: Various HDR issues occur when using the madVR renderer with MPC-HC.
[3038381]

Yay! Hopefully this fixes the HDR issues.

[Klaus1189]

Already tested:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1923650#post1923650

[x7007]

Finally HDR fixed with the 456 Works in Windowed Full Screen

[Joniii]

doesn't trigger anything here.
i need more information like D3D11 FSE? what mode is exactly used?

my next guess would be HDMI content ID which should be an option in your TV mien is disable and i'm not going to activated it again.

both my Panasonic and Sony could be controlled by just changing a setting in the nvidia control panel AFAIK there is no way to disable this on AMD.

I found a "10 bit pixel format" setting on Adrenalin general settings today. It's disabled by default.

When it is disabled Windows desktop etc is displayed by the TV with Auto(sRGB/BT.709) when using RGB 4:4:4 10-bit or 8-bit output on Adrenalin Display tab.

On RGB 8-bit output the TV displays BT.709 UHD correctly and also switches correctly to BT.2020 for videos that use it.

On RGB 10-bit output the TV displays BT.709 UHD as BT.2020.

All off above were with "10 bit pixel format" disabled.

However if I then enable the "10 bit pixel format" on the Adrenalin general settings and reboot, everything including the Windows desktop is displayed as BT.2020 by the TV and colours seem to be overly bright and vivid.

I think you were right that it has something to do with AMD. On RGB 10-bit it sends all videos on full screen as BT.2020 and then if "10-bit pixel format" is enabled also, it sends everything including the desktop as BT.2020. Or then it is something on the TV, if there is 10-bit signal it automatically uses BT.2020 no matter what the video contains. I really don't know how these work under the hood but something like that.

I guess it's just better to output everything as 8-bit as there does not seem to be any colour banding etc when using it, RGB 10-bit and 8-bit output seem to produce the same quality test patterns on the TV.

[mclingo]

I found a "10 bit pixel format" setting on Adrenalin general settings today. It's disabled by default.

When it is disabled Windows desktop etc is displayed by the TV with Auto(sRGB/BT.709) when using RGB 4:4:4 10-bit or 8-bit output on Adrenalin Display tab.

On RGB 8-bit output the TV displays BT.709 UHD correctly and also switches correctly to BT.2020 for videos that use it.

On RGB 10-bit output the TV displays BT.709 UHD as BT.2020.

All off above were with "10 bit pixel format" disabled.

However if I then enable the "10 bit pixel format" on the Adrenalin general settings and reboot, everything including the Windows desktop is displayed as BT.2020 by the TV and colours seem to be overly bright and vivid.

I think you were right that it has something to do with AMD. On RGB 10-bit it sends all videos on full screen as BT.2020 and then if "10-bit pixel format" is enabled also, it sends everything including the desktop as BT.2020. Or then it is something on the TV, if there is 10-bit signal it automatically uses BT.2020 no matter what the video contains. I really don't know how these work under the hood but something like that.

I guess it's just better to output everything as 8-bit as there does not seem to be any colour banding etc when using it, RGB 10-bit and 8-bit output seem to produce the same quality test patterns on the TV.


I cant see that 10 bit switch anywhere in my "general" setttings, never heard of it but this sounds interesting, , can you provide a screen shot, please dont attach it using the forum though, is onedrive link or something else

[veggav]

Is there any word if we are going to get more demanding upscale options for owners of the RTX 3080?

[mclingo]

there hasnt been any word on anything for over a year, your guess is as good as anyones :)

[Joniii]

I cant see that 10 bit switch anywhere in my "general" setttings, never heard of it but this sounds interesting, , can you provide a screen shot, please dont attach it using the forum though, is onedrive link or something else

It should be there on the bottom when you click the arrow to get more options. Sorry that the text is Finnish.

17488

[Joniii]

That is some long and strong hate right there ;). I feel you, though. Without Voodoo, Nvidia would not be in the position it is in today. I remember my 1st and 2nd gen Voodoos fondly, hence my avatar (for those who remember the few games that supported Glide natively).

I remember that game :) My first dGPU was Voodoo2. It's a real shame that there is so little competition these days.

[CZ Eddie]

I remember AVSForum back in 1999 when we were all building early Pentium HTPC's.
I got into that after buying the first HDTV mass released to the public.
The RCA MM36100 36" 4:3 800x600 CRT TV with two VGA inputs.
I used it with an HTPC and the first dish HD receiver, the RCA DTC100.

Can't remember what video card I used but I'm sure it looked something like this.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/STBVoodoo2SLIcards.jpg

I'm pretty sure I was way late on my rent after buying that TV from Fry's Electronics in Woodland Hills, CA.

[Klaus1189]

on Turing GPUs, madVR is already starting to fall apart with constant microstutterinng.

Can you please describe the issue, I have never heard of it.

[mclingo]

It should be there on the bottom when you click the arrow to get more options. Sorry that the text is Finnish.

17488


as stated you ant add attachments to this thread, it sometimes takes days for them to be approved, i cant view it

[SamuriHL]

madVR has been abandonware ever since madSHI decided to launch his paid madVR-as-a-service product. There will never be another update of madVR, and it will slowly crumble into uselessness with each Windows update and GPU launch. Even on Turing GPUs, madVR is already starting to fall apart with constant microstutterinng. The community will simply have to patchithe holes and stick band-aids on the sore spots until enough time passes and keeping madVR in some semblance of life is no longer worth the Sisyphean effort.

Please don't spread nonsense. madvr isn't "abandonware" and your proclamation of "there will never be another update of madvr" is pure BS. So just stop.

Can you please describe the issue, I have never heard of it.

Yes you have. He's referring to the issue that happened when the Turing cards first came out and was worked around by setting the number of frames to 1. Ultimately it was fixed by a driver update by nVidia. Shocking that it wasn't a madvr issue after all. :rolleyes:

[mclingo]

anyone else on AMD card any idea what he's on about, I cant see anything in DISPLAY, VIDEO or GENERAL apart from "pixel format" in DISPLAY where you set FULL RGB/YBCR etc

[Klaus1189]

Yes you have. He's referring to the issue that happened when the Turing cards first came out and was worked around by setting the number of frames to 1. Ultimately it was fixed by a driver update by nVidia. Shocking that it wasn't a madvr issue after all. :rolleyes:

Ooops :o
Since that was an Nvidia issue, so no need to worry guys ;)

[Klaus1189]

anyone else on AMD card any idea what he's on about, I cant see anything in DISPLAY, VIDEO or GENERAL apart from "pixel format" in DISPLAY where you set FULL RGB/YBCR etc

Download latest driver AMD driver and also Download AMD Cleanup Utility (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013)
remove all old stuff by running it in save mode (automatically done by tool)
Then after restart install the new driver and after installation do also a restart.
Issue gone or does it persist?

[biship]

Please don't spread nonsense. madvr isn't "abandonware" and your proclamation of "there will never be another update of madvr" is pure BS. So just stop.

Um, it pretty much is abandoned...

[Joniii]

as stated you ant add attachments to this thread, it sometimes takes days for them to be approved, i cant view it

Sorry I was on a hurry and somehow missed it.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ath_q56vIKVai90p_4IStHwQVGIJ9Q?e=NhCqgA

[VBB]

It would seem so, if all you read is doom9. Madshi has been active all this time over on AVS.

[el Filou]

Is madvr open source? If not, is there any documentation about what is going on under the hood for some of these image quality options? Some of them seem to work very well, and I'd like to transcode bad sources with several of these options even if I can't process it in real time.Are they just avisyth plugins? Any documentation you can provide would be helpful.It's not opensource. I don't think there is detailed technical documentation on the internals, I've only seen a flowchart of the "pipeline", the FAQ you can find on the first page of this thread, and SDK for player developers, so AFAIK its internal scaling functions can't be used directly by external programs. As it is a renderer, I'm afraid the only way to retrieve a scaled image from it is to configure it to use windowed mode (or fullscreen window, they can have difference with output bit depth) and then take a screengrab of the presented frame while playback is paused. You'd have to develop a player app that uses it as a renderer and frame-by-frame skips through a video while saving the presented picture of each frame.
(disclaimer: I'm not a dev so if what I said is wrong someone can correct me)

[mclingo]

Sorry I was on a hurry and somehow missed it.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ath_q56vIKVai90p_4IStHwQVGIJ9Q?e=NhCqgA

found it, thats the graphics section though not general :)

Do we know if it actually does anything?

[Joniii]

I remember AVSForum back in 1999 when we were all building early Pentium HTPC's.
I got into that after buying the first HDTV mass released to the public.
The RCA MM36100 36" 4:3 800x600 CRT TV with two VGA inputs.
I used it with an HTPC and the first dish HD receiver, the RCA DTC100.

Can't remember what video card I used but I'm sure it looked something like this.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/STBVoodoo2SLIcards.jpg

I'm pretty sure I was way late on my rent after buying that TV from Fry's Electronics in Woodland Hills, CA.

Wow, I didn't know in 99 that there were those kind of TV's. I had maybe 25" back then with normal resolution. I knew there were bigger TV's of course, but I didn't know there were bigger resolutions.

I still remember my Voodoo3 layout. The heatsink and the memory around it because after I did't use it anymore is was around for so long in different places. Sadly I threw it away eventually.

I think it was about the same time that DVD came and it required a PCI card to watch DVD on PC properly, because the performance on PC's wasn't enough. I can't remember what it was but I think it had Hollywood+ on it's name. I still have it somewhere. I'm glad we don't need these anymore for 4k etc :)

But those were great times. Sometimes a friend came over and brought his PC with him and we tried maybe 2-3 hours to set up a lan on Windows ME or XP and after it finally worked we played some Warcraft II :)

[huhn]

I found a "10 bit pixel format" setting on Adrenalin general settings today. It's disabled by default.

When it is disabled Windows desktop etc is displayed by the TV with Auto(sRGB/BT.709) when using RGB 4:4:4 10-bit or 8-bit output on Adrenalin Display tab.

On RGB 8-bit output the TV displays BT.709 UHD correctly and also switches correctly to BT.2020 for videos that use it.

On RGB 10-bit output the TV displays BT.709 UHD as BT.2020.

All off above were with "10 bit pixel format" disabled.

However if I then enable the "10 bit pixel format" on the Adrenalin general settings and reboot, everything including the Windows desktop is displayed as BT.2020 by the TV and colours seem to be overly bright and vivid.

I think you were right that it has something to do with AMD. On RGB 10-bit it sends all videos on full screen as BT.2020 and then if "10-bit pixel format" is enabled also, it sends everything including the desktop as BT.2020. Or then it is something on the TV, if there is 10-bit signal it automatically uses BT.2020 no matter what the video contains. I really don't know how these work under the hood but something like that.

I guess it's just better to output everything as 8-bit as there does not seem to be any colour banding etc when using it, RGB 10-bit and 8-bit output seem to produce the same quality test patterns on the TV.

ignore that setting what TV are you using?
and i still don't know your madVR output settings.

@Stephen R. Savage
i wonder why he is not ignoring my bug reports at all.


anyone else on AMD card any idea what he's on about, I cant see anything in DISPLAY, VIDEO or GENERAL apart from "pixel format" in DISPLAY where you set FULL RGB/YBCR etc

it's nearly for sure just for professional software to active the openGL 10 bit hack which was only used in professional cards.
so just ignore it

[mclingo]

I had a voodoo 1 which was just a daughter passthrough card, you had to connect it to a 2d card to get a graphic output, lol, I stopped buying them at 4 or 5 I think and bought a geforce 2 gts which wiped the floor with everything at the time.

[mclingo]

all that pixel setting did for me for prevent MADVR toggling HDR, turned it off again.

[Joniii]

madVR has been abandonware ever since madSHI decided to launch his paid madVR-as-a-service product. There will never be another update of madVR, and it will slowly crumble into uselessness with each Windows update and GPU launch. Even on Turing GPUs, madVR is already starting to fall apart with constant microstutterinng. The community will simply have to patch the holes and stick band-aids on the sore spots until enough time passes and keeping madVR in some semblance of life is no longer worth the Sisyphean effort.

I have missed that completely. Did he write something about his decision here?

But yeah not surprising because of one man development team and closed source.

[Joniii]

ignore that setting what TV are you using?
and i still don't know your madVR output settings.


Sony Bravia 85X950H, 85XH95 in Europe.

I've always left everything untouched in madVR except I've added the framerates madVR can switch and enabled Exclusive mode. Everything else is default.

I don't know. If this is not going anywhere anymore and it is a problem in madVR then there's nothing we can do about it. If it's a problem with Radeon drivers then it will be fixed someday with a new GPU or new drivers. It does not seem to make any difference on test patterns if I use RGB 8-bit or RBG 10-bit on 10-bit panel. So I'll just leave it to RGB 8-bit and enjoy the content :)

[huhn]

disable the the auto picture mode the TV.

[Joniii]

disable the the auto picture mode the TV.

It was disabled. I guess it is what it is :/

[SamuriHL]

Ooops :o
Since that was an Nvidia issue, so no need to worry guys ;)

I wasn't worried. :D

Um, it pretty much is abandoned...

Um, it really isn't. People seem to have short memories when it comes to madvr. There have been plenty of times where we went a LONG time between builds. Yes, even years. madshi is currently focused on something else, but that doesn't mean madvr is abandoned. Madshi recently has said he has a new beta build in the works to test more HDR tone mapping options. madvr is likely to be used as a test bed for enhancements to Envy.

But hey, if you all want to believe it's abandoned, you can install the "last version ever" and be happy with it I guess. LOL

[Joniii]

It would seem so, if all you read is doom9. Madshi has been active all this time over on AVS.

I’ve never encountered him there. Which treads is he active in there? I mean is there a madVR thread in there and has just abandoned doom9 or what?

[mclingo]

https://www.avsforum.com/members/madshi.7500952/#latest-activity

[biship]

https://forum.doom9.org/search.php?searchid=8827604

[VBB]

He doesn't check in on the madVR thread in the HTPC section of the forum, but as you can see from mclingo's link, he's active in the tone-mapping thread in the projector section, as well as in the Envy thread.

BTW, does anyone know what happened to Warner aka Onkyoman? He hasn't posted here or at AVS in a long time.

[ryrynz]

BTW, does anyone know what happened to Warner aka Onkyoman? He hasn't posted here or at AVS in a long time.

Last Activity: 16th September 2020 22:34 He's around, go say hi :)

[ktsbkt]

I think I found a subtitle related screenshot bug.
madVR v0.92.17
XySubFilter_3.1.0.752_x86
LAVFilters-0.74.1-x86
MPC-HC.1.8.8.x86

madVR settings -> rendering -> screenshots ->
Checkmark the custom zoom factor and choose "encoded video size".
Subtitles won't appear in the output when I use the Alt+I feature in MPC-HC.

They will appear when I disable the custom zoom factor. But if I use this mode all my 4K video and 1080P video will have tiny screenshots the size of my MPC-HC window.
So I would like to avoid this.
If this intentional, or is it a bug?

[scott1256ca]

Searches for an answer have not produced results, so I ask here.
I want to do tone mapping and scale 4k down to 1080 for a projector I'm not ready to replace yet. I'd like some advice on video card requirements.
video playback is the only requirement. No gaming involved.
My current mobo (chosen for low power consumption) is a j3455 with intel hd 500 graphics. This is not enough to do tone mapping with madvr. I also tried with an older video card (gt240 with 1/2g ram) which is better than the intel graphics, but still not enough. I'd like the card to do 4k 60hz. I like to upgrade the pc monitor to 4k in the near future, but not the projector just yet.
Sorry if this has been answered already, but I can't find it.
Any advice would be welcome.
Thx

[*MidnightWatcher*]

Searches for an answer have not produced results, so I ask here.
I want to do tone mapping and scale 4k down to 1080 for a projector I'm not ready to replace yet. I'd like some advice on video card requirements.
video playback is the only requirement. No gaming involved.
My current mobo (chosen for low power consumption) is a j3455 with intel hd 500 graphics. This is not enough to do tone mapping with madvr. I also tried with an older video card (gt240 with 1/2g ram) which is better than the intel graphics, but still not enough. I'd like the card to do 4k 60hz. I like to upgrade the pc monitor to 4k in the near future, but not the projector just yet.
Sorry if this has been answered already, but I can't find it.
Any advice would be welcome.
Thx
When I had my Epson 5030UB the GTX 1060 6GB was great tone mapping and downscaling 4K to 1080p.

[VBB]

At this point it would make sense to wait for the RTX 3060 as the future-proof budget option.

[chros]

@VBB, budget for 400?! :D