madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[TechnoPeasant]

Has the latest Windows 10 update screwed the levels for anyone? I haven't touched my madVR setup in ages, the only thing that's changed is Windows 10, and now my levels are screwed and everything looks washed out.

So I had originally thought this was from a Windows 10 update, but the more research I do, I think I've found an update to my TV somehow broke compatibility with MadVR HDR10 passthrough. I own a Vizio PQ65 and noticed many other people having similar issues with playback from external devices, such as apps on their Xbox One.

In any case, if anyone happens to have run into the same issue, I was able to work around this by using Windows 10 HDR instead of nVidia. I did this by changing my nVidia driver settings to 23Hz, YcBr 4:4:4, 12bit and turned on Windows 10 HDR. From everything I've read, this is far from ideal, but it works for now. Hopefully Vizio will fix things.

If anyone has suggestions as to what driver settings to use in conjunction with Windows 10 HDR, please let me know. It's possible I should be using RGB Full, like I was previously, but I wasn't sure. Thanks!

[mclingo]

are you sure your setup it right, i'd double check, sounds like you've got the wrong colour space set somewhere, i'd check your setup again. Go for Full RGB 4:4:4 on your graphics card, set MADVR to 10bit and 0-255 - your TV black level should be on HIGH or whatever the equivalent is for this setting.

Now play the black clipping pattern with something like MPC-BE with MADVR set as renderer but also remember to set full screen, does that look normal, crushed or washed out?

[TechnoPeasant]

are you sure your setup it right, i'd double check, sounds like you've got the wrong colour space set somewhere, i'd check your setup again. Go for Full RGB 4:4:4 on your graphics card, set MADVR to 10bit and 0-255 - your TV black level should be on HIGH or whatever the equivalent is for this setting.

Now play the black clipping pattern with something like MPC-BE with MADVR set as renderer but also remember to set full screen, does that look normal, crushed or washed out?

What I think is happening, is that the TV isn't choosing the correct color space when in HDR10 mode + RGB in the nvidia driver, and I can't select the color space in the TV manually. I also have no known way to set the black level either, Vizio PQ sets look good, but their user controls are kind of crap.

[mclingo]

2018 tvs seem to have this, https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/p-series-quantum-2018/settings

[TechnoPeasant]

I think their screenshots and what not are out of date. Also, I'm fairly confident it never allowed us to change the color space when in HDR10 mode.

[mclingo]

I think their screenshots and what not are out of date. Also, I'm fairly confident it never allowed us to change the color space when in HDR10 mode.

hdr10 is a mode not a picture prest though, you set the colour space oon the picture preset and when HDR is enabled it probably locks it in, I cant change some of my picture settings when HDR is enabled on my lg oled

[TechnoPeasant]

hdr10 is a mode not a picture prest though, you set the colour space oon the picture preset and when HDR is enabled it probably locks it in, I cant change some of my picture settings when HDR is enabled on my lg oled

I gave this a shot, under the preset I use for everything, I changed to RGB, played a HDR file, the TV switches to HDR mode and gets all washed out.

This was all working for a long time, aside from the TV or receiver updating, I’m not sure what else changed. Frustrating.

[Asmodian]

I gave this a shot, under the preset I use for everything, I changed to RGB, played a HDR file, the TV switches to HDR mode and gets all washed out.

It sounds like it stays in limited range but the TV uses full range, did you make sure you changed to full range RGB?

[TechnoPeasant]

It sounds like it stays in limited range but the TV uses full range, did you make sure you changed to full range RGB?

Unfortunately, the Vizio PQ doesn't seem to offer a setting for video levels, just color space. Kinda sucks.

[wushantao]

i want to upgrade my graphics card

now i use sony 900f，maybe I will buy another 950g

rx590，rx5700，rtx2060，which one is better for madvr only？

[mclingo]

I gave this a shot, under the preset I use for everything, I changed to RGB, played a HDR file, the TV switches to HDR mode and gets all washed out.

This was all working for a long time, aside from the TV or receiver updating, I’m not sure what else changed. Frustrating.

set this up, and report back.

Set your PC to FUll RGB 4:4:4
set MADVR to 0-255
ensure MADVR is set to 10 bit
ensure windows HDR is turned off
set your TV to computer mode
set your TV to colour space YCBCR

play the normal black clipping pattern in SDR, does it look normal, lightened or crushed?

Black clipping pattern just incase you havent got it:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AgvFafeelEBiic4_mgS5fNxtjfHEHg

[mclingo]

i want to upgrade my graphics card

now i use sony 900f，maybe I will buy another 950g

rx590，rx5700，rtx2060，which one is better for madvr only？



any graphics card will run MADVR, generally the more you spend the more power it will have in MADVR, peoples setups are too different to really recommend anything to people now, even though some try.

If you want 3D however you'll need to stay with AMD or use an NVIDA card with much older drivers.

The correlation between MADVR and gaming is close enough for most so that should be a good enough tell, the better a cards gaming chops the better it will likely be in MADVR, as a very general rule.

However the older RX polaris cards were not as good as the equivalent NVIDA cards, AMD now seems to have made up that ground though.

Best advice, spend as much as your budget will allow.

[Klaus1189]

Do Multi-GPU setups help madVR or isn‘t it optimized for that. For a game which isn‘t optimized for Multi-GPU might be slower than using a single GPU. Driver might also be relevant.

[huhn]

sli CF are not properly supported and usually slow the rendering down.

[COOLak]

Hi guys. When I was using MPC-HC native functionality to set TV resolutions based on the video, it would output all video at 1080p, because madVR was upscaling it. Then I switched to madVR's "Display Modes" function, and now it outputs DVDs in 720p instead of 1080p. But why? I have upscaling options at the maximum in madVR, so why it doesn't output in 1080p? My display modes are: 640x480p50, 640x480p60, 720p23, 720p24, 720p30, 720p50, 720p60, 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p30, 1080p50, 1080p60

Right now I'm playing a DVD at 720x576p50, and it outputs it at 720p. But when I disable "Display Modes" functionality in madVR and switch to MPC-HC functionality, it outputs it at 1080p.
Any suggestions?

UPD: fixed with chros's advice. Thanks.

[chros]

You should only use the native resolution of your display in madvr:
1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p30, 1080p50, 1080p60

[Klaus1189]

I just did use EVR standard and EVR custom presenter for playing a videofile and these wash out the video like 0-255 vs. 16-235.
However since I normally use madVR where it is fine and also in VMR9 (windowed) it is fine.
Playing the exact same video on youtube in Firefox is exactly like VMR9 and madvr.
Need help to find the culprit: driver or Windows or anything other perhaps?
Happens on both MPC-BE and MPC-HC.

[huhn]

the issue can range from GPU driver settings (AMD removed the setting to output full range AFAIK it is still in the registry) up to renderer settings -> output range.


BTW. wrong thread.

[Klaus1189]

But in driver 19.9.2 the pixelformat is "RGB 4:4:4 Full RGB" ("4:4:4" for those who don't know that RGB is always without chroma subsampling.)
But madVR and VMR 9 windowed is fine. Strange, at least for my understanding.

Yeah sorry, for offtopic. Better to continue here, if someone can help me with this issue:
AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013)

[mclingo]

i hadnt updated my AMD driver for a while but i've just installed 19.9.2 and got quite a nice surprise, although i dont know if microsoft has sorted out some issue or AMD have, I now no longer need FSE for anything, both 3D and HDR work fine with no issues at all, no frame drops or skips and the odd overblown reds issue with sub 60hz SDR has also gone so I no longer need to calibrate for BT2020 in MADVR.

I think i'll take a macrium image snapshot of this as its rare to have a 100% working 3d/4K/HDR HTPC that requires no workarounds at all.

joy :)

[Mangix]

Anyone use this with a FreeSync monitor? I've noticed that when seeking during playback, the monitor refresh rate would dip below 120Hz (the current refresh rate).

[huhn]

that's a bug somewhere. freesync doesn't work with madVR it's best to make sure it is not used with it.

[Snipe3000]

HDR metadata passthrough

In the last couple of days I've talked to Microsoft and NVidia about HDR metadata passthrough. And the current situation is as follows:

1) In Windows 10 Creator's Update there's a new option in the OS display settings dialog named "HDR and advanced color". If you turn this option off, your TV will always be running in SDR mode. If you turn this option on, your TV will always be running in HDR mode. Windows does currently *not* support dynamically switching HDR mode on/off while you're playing an HDR movie (or playing an HDR game)! Microsoft may consider dynamic switching in the future, but don't hold your breath, I'm not too optimistic that they'll add that any time soon (if ever). But let's wait and see.

2) If you switch the "HDR and Advanced Color" option off, your TV will always receive SDR from the PC. If you play an HDR movie in this situation with the madVR option "passthrough HDR content to the display" activated, the OS/GPU will perform a low quality HDR -> SDR conversion behind madVR's back. Consequently, HDR content will look "ok", but the quality is not really good. SDR content will look "perfect", though.

3) If you switch the "HDR and Advanced Color" option on, your TV will always receive HDR from the PC. If you tell madVR to "passthrough HDR content to the display" in this situation, HDR movies should look "perfect". If you play SDR content in this situation, the OS/GPU will convert SDR to HDR behind madVR's back. Consequently, SDR content will look "ok", but it will not be perfect.

4) Currently HDR and fullscreen exclusive mode is a problematic combination. It's partially the fault of the OS, partially of the GPU drivers. It's not clear yet if this will be fixed, or when. Generally, Microsoft wants to get rid of fullscreen exclusive mode. It might suddenly disappear in a future Windows 10 version. I'm not happy about that at all. Which is one of the reasons I've been recommending Windows 8.1 for months now.

5) Nvidia comes to the rescue of all HTPC users who want perfect quality for both SDR and HDR content: Nvidia's private HDR API allows madVR to dynamically switch the TV into and out of HDR mode, as needed. For this to work, you need to deactivate the OS "HDR and advanced color" switch.

6) madVR v0.91.10 had a bug where Nvidia's private HDR API was only called properly in the 32bit madVR version, but not in 64bit. This bug is fixed in madVR v0.91.11.

7) All Nvidia drivers starting with 381.xx up to the latest (384.76) have a bug which results in madVR not being able to switch the TV into HDR, when using FSE mode. You can workaround the issue by disabling FSE mode. Alternatively, using any driver between 376.xx and 380.xx should make dynamic HDR switching work perfectly.

As it stands right now, for all Windows users who want to do both SDR and HDR playback in perfect quality, I can only recommend Nvidia GPUs, because only Nvidia's private API allows madVR to dynamically switch the TV between SDR <-> HDR atm. I'm talking to Intel, maybe they will add a private API, too. Unfortunately my AMD contacts have gone silent. There's still hope for Windows 10, but I'm not overly optimistic atm.

Hello everyone, I noticed my MPC-HC + madVR + HDR passthrough setup is still doing that odd screen thing when you go full screen in windows 10 with HDR on.

Is there a way to fix this yet? Or is there still no way to have full screen HDR in windows 10?

[mclingo]

NOt really sure why MADSHI posted that, AMD cards have had relaible HDR support via AMD's API pretty much since HDR TV's were available, i've only had one driver release which broke HDR and that was a very long time ago.

What odd thing are you talking about exactly?

[DMU]

I think i'll take a macrium image snapshot of this as its rare to have a 100% working 3d/4K/HDR HTPC that requires no workarounds at all.

What can you say about this HDR color issue?
1 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a5YXIn34b2wg5XdxUfpd7ME0GVrjZkIP) - AMD HDR
2 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nkcimf0G4CjWx3ZIPxXahxwtDsod0gOc) - Windows HDR (Movies & TV)
3 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1G6rpgdnodRJlCeDkSP2XqLCGA2X4SFIH) - TV HDR
Source (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LxLYkyO74BCagXQqEF2UzkkRkq3hY3Ua).

[mrmojo666]

i hadnt updated my AMD driver for a while but i've just installed 19.9.2 and got quite a nice surprise, although i dont know if microsoft has sorted out some issue or AMD have, I now no longer need FSE for anything, both 3D and HDR work fine with no issues at all, no frame drops or skips and the odd overblown reds issue with sub 60hz SDR has also gone so I no longer need to calibrate for BT2020 in MADVR.

I think i'll take a macrium image snapshot of this as its rare to have a 100% working 3d/4K/HDR HTPC that requires no workarounds at all.

joy :)

thank you for the news, I'll try soon

[mclingo]

What can you say about this HDR color issue?
1 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a5YXIn34b2wg5XdxUfpd7ME0GVrjZkIP) - AMD HDR
2 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nkcimf0G4CjWx3ZIPxXahxwtDsod0gOc) - Windows HDR (Movies & TV)
3 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1G6rpgdnodRJlCeDkSP2XqLCGA2X4SFIH) - TV HDR
Source (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LxLYkyO74BCagXQqEF2UzkkRkq3hY3Ua).

Hi, not sure what i'm looking at to be honest, I havent seen this movie in HDR so I cant really compare your source to anything, I have the SDR 3D copy. These movies are colour graded in a very specific way to make them look unnatural as well so it hard to say exactly what is wrong.

What problem are you having exactly?

[DMU]

Download "source" (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LxLYkyO74BCagXQqEF2UzkkRkq3hY3Ua) and comparison. AMD HDR vs TV player.

[mclingo]

I dont know if there is a language barrier here or not but i'm still not sure what you are asking here, if you want some help on a forum be clear, be polite, dont just dump half formed sentences onto the page and expect people to try guess what you want.

Please explain in clear english, with Grammar exactly what your problem is.

[DMU]

Excuse me for my bad english. I just wanted to say that AMD is still not so good. A problem such as this is still not resolved. I would be grateful if you download that "source" and check with yourself.
something is wrong with the HDR10 color gamut (wrong metadata?). The colors are much less saturated than they should be (faces look pale, etc).

[mclingo]

ok no probs, i'll have a look tonight then when I get home.

[mclingo]

when you watch it yourself does it look anything like this or is it more washed out?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBii5t3NxWsuOKAwQgLCQ?e=OpI01j


This is how it looks for me using MPC-BE with HDR-SDR conversion (viewed on a none HDR monitor from work)

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBii5t4kvDrmkPjPOGZMg?e=tyjvy3

[DMU]

More like a 2nd screenshot. Please download my photos
1 - AMD HDR
2 - Windows HDR (Movies & TV)
3 - TV HDR
and you will see how it looks.
1 - AMD HDR colors are not saturated than others.

[mclingo]

those links werent working for me initially, they are now.

Allowing for differences in exposure they are all quite similar, there are some differencies in colour though, the MADVR image has more blue, or the other images have too much red, its hard to know. They all look too light but that could just be the photo exposure.

Does you TV have info message that tells you its going into HDR mode as MADVR maybe the only player thats actually going into HDR mode, the other two might be converting to SDR, if this is the case the preset your TV is envoking for HDR material might set wrong which is why SDR looks ok.

Update your sig with the kit / setup you are using.

[mrmojo666]

More like a 2nd screenshot. Please download my photos
1 - AMD HDR
2 - Windows HDR (Movies & TV)
3 - TV HDR
and you will see how it looks.
1 - AMD HDR colors are not saturated than others.

IMHO your screenshot from amd hdr looks perfect, no oversaturated skin. maybe there is just a bit green shift (as i can see on hair).
but with compressed image and my laptop monitor could make me wrong.

[DMU]

Allowing for differences in exposure they are all quite similar, there are some differencies in colour though, the MADVR image has more blue, or the other images have too much red, its hard to know.
Exactly. Especially visible by skin tone.

Does you TV have info message that tells you its going into HDR mode as MADVR maybe the only player thats actually going into HDR mode, the other two might be converting to SDR, if this is the case the preset your TV is envoking for HDR material might set wrong which is why SDR looks ok.
In all three cases the TV was in HDR mode.

My setup:
Win10 Pro 1903, 19.9.2 AMD driver, MPC-HC v1.8.7, madVR v0.92.17.
Ryzen 3 2200G with Vega8 iGPU.
Samsung UE40NU7100.

[ashlar42]

i want to upgrade my graphics card

now i use sony 900f，maybe I will buy another 950g

rx590，rx5700，rtx2060，which one is better for madvr only？Due to RTX series cards being included in the Envy hardware solution that madshi is working on, there is the possibility (not certainty, mind) that the RTX 2060 could allow you in the future to access more features.

[mclingo]

Exactly. Especially visible by skin tone.

In all three cases the TV was in HDR mode.

My setup:
Win10 Pro 1903, 19.9.2 AMD driver, MPC-HC v1.8.7, madVR v0.92.17.
Ryzen 3 2200G with Vega8 iGPU.
Samsung UE40NU7100.

you may actually find that you TV is envoking a different preset for MADVR vs your windows desktop, some TV's use different presets for playback resolutions and refresh rates, the MADVR playback looks like mine would if I had my TV set to COOL instead of the correct setting of WARM2.

Do you have anything set it MADVR for calibration?, mine is set to off.

One more quick test to do, this will tell us whether its a driver or MADVR issue, play it with MPC-BE latest version using the standard EVR renderer, it converts HDR to SDR and its a very close approximation colour wise, if this looks ok (make sure you are refresh rate switching to 23,976) it must be an issue with your MADVR setup.

[janos666]

Excuse me for my bad english. I just wanted to say that AMD is still not so good. A problem such as this is still not resolved. I would be grateful if you download that "source" and check with yourself.

My theory is that AMD tries to do the smart thing and dynamically pick the metadata (Rec2020, DCI-P3, Rec709, etc) to be sent to the display (in HDR mode), so that the display's built-in processor becomes responsible for any kind of gamut mapping if necessary (from the color space indicated in the metadata to the native display panel colors) which eliminates all the potential performance overhead and/or quality degradation on the PC's CPU/GPU side (the original default behavior since Windows 10 1703 seems to be a conversion of the SDR Windows GUI and all SDR application window's content to Rec2020 [from Rec709] and constantly feeding the HDR mode display with Rec2020 colors whenever Windows is set to HDR desktop mode --- in the early days this clogged the CPU, then it started punishing the GPU with notable performance and quality loss [think about video games when considering the performance] --- now it might becomes a job of the display's processor which is theoretically the ideal choice in all respects). But it looks like it doesn't always work as expected (the display might gets Rec2020 colors with Rec709 metadata, or vice versa with gamut mapping might or might not happening on the PC's side). But it could also be a random bug. I am not sure if Microsoft and/or AMD really trusts the displays to handle this properly (for example, my LG TV seems to handle these kind of metadata changes without blinking into black screens and such but others might not and need to re-initialize).

[mclingo]

if it was an AMD problem wouldnt that show in MADVR and in the windows "film and TV" player,? there only seems to be an issue with MADVR playback.

[huhn]

madVR uses the an amd API while windows movie does not.

[DMU]

huhn, you seem to be the owner of a RX 5700 XT, can you check it (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1886167#post1886167)?

[huhn]

nope no HDR display.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Yep, I know I'm gonna get a whole lot of pain on this one...gone back to madVR09209.zip....to my eyes, in a real life environment, nnedi3 wins hands down over NGU.

Yep, gonna get flamed, I know.

[mclingo]

Exactly. Especially visible by skin tone.

In all three cases the TV was in HDR mode.

My setup:
Win10 Pro 1903, 19.9.2 AMD driver, MPC-HC v1.8.7, madVR v0.92.17.
Ryzen 3 2200G with Vega8 iGPU.
Samsung UE40NU7100.

Top one is MPC-BE with HDRF to SDR conversion, below are MADVR and Windows 10 film and TV player, all three looked identical, ignore the reddish tint to these, thats just my camera, in person all three looked spot on.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBii5w372uB2Vktk-Mpgw?e=dCeMbk

[Asmodian]

to my eyes, in a real life environment, nnedi3 wins hands down over NGU.

Which NGU did you compare it to? NGU AA looks very similar to NNEDI3 to me in a "real life environment" (what do you mean by that?).

[DMU]

Top one is MPC-BE with HDRF to SDR conversion, below are MADVR and Windows 10 film and TV player, all three looked identical, ignore the reddish tint to these, thats just my camera, in person all three looked spot on.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBii5w372uB2Vktk-Mpgw?e=dCeMbk
Thank you so much! Does your sig fit this test?

[mclingo]

Thank you so much! Does your sig fit this test?

yes my sig is accurate, i'm not using MADVR .17 as i had issues with 3D with it which I reported to MADSHI as a bug, i havent tested that version for a while though so I might give it another go at some point, I was just going to wait for v 1.0 though.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Which NGU did you compare it to? NGU AA looks very similar to NNEDI3 to me in a "real life environment" (what do you mean by that?).

I must admit, never really tried AA. only standard and sharp (on 1080p material), but NEDDI3 just seems more natural, and seems to bring out different details (to be expected).

Will take a closer look at AA though.

[Harumi]

I have an issue with one movie (ripped Blu-ray in 1080p), the source material is 50fps.

I have no idea why all other videos are working fine (typical 24fps look great, and no dropped frames), but I struggle with 50fps, the video seems choppy, every sec I am loosing over 15 frames.

I tried to tinker with all settings and display modes, but I must have overseen something.

Can you please help, I have a good machine, so hardware is not an issue, and the video is similarly choppy with Cubic and NHU very sharp?