madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Braum]

Is there any advantage to tonemap a HDR feed and output it in HDR compared to passthrough ? Because I don't really see any on my HDR monitor.

[QBhd]

It is subtle, but there is a nice improvement to the image quality on my OLED. Don't forget most "HDR" monitors only do a mediocre job of HDR.

QB

[Braum]

It is subtle, but there is a nice improvement to the image quality on my OLED. Don't forget most "HDR" monitors only do a mediocre job of HDR.

QB

Indeed that might be it :p I even tried tonemapping with a 3DLUT but it was nearly the same. I'm planning on getting the LG 55C9 soon.

Is 3DLUT calibration active in NV HDR ? I have a REC709 and a DCI-P3 3DLUT setup in madvr.

[chros]

Is 3DLUT calibration active in NV HDR ? I have a REC709 and a DCI-P3 3DLUT setup in madvr.
No, it isn't.

[Braum]

No, it isn't.
So the 3DLUT tonemapping serve as a way to calibrate the display in NV HDR mode or is there no means of calibrating a display in HDR mode ? :thanks:

[chros]

So the 3DLUT tonemapping serve as a way to calibrate the display in NV HDR mode or is there no means of calibrating a display in HDR mode ?
There's no way via madvr (yet?), you can only handle SDR content via madvr.

[SamuriHL]

What did you use for a real display nit value in madvr when outputting HDR? Ideally you should measure your display otherwise a "best guess" based on the specs is reasonable. That can impact quite a bit of what madvr is able to do.

[mclingo]

Is there any advantage to tonemap.

Hi, my TV is only just over 400 nits and so some of the bright highlight material get clipped when passed direct to TV, i've cited this good example before of how useful MADVR tone mapping is for me.

Harry potter, goblet of fire, about 2:09, the faces of the ghosts have almost zero detail on my TV, with tone mapping and highlight recovery it completely transforms the picture and all the detail comes back.

You should find though that if you already have a TV with 800+ nits you may not see any real benefit, especially some of the newer Panasonic and LG Tvs which already have very good tone mapping and tweak.

Best thing to do it just have a play with it.

[tp4tissue]

So the 3DLUT tonemapping serve as a way to calibrate the display in NV HDR mode or is there no means of calibrating a display in HDR mode ? :thanks:

To visually represent HDR and SDR content on a display that IS NOT a studio display, madver does Tonemapping and idealy also uses a 3DLUT

the 3DLut is a map for the display we own. Without which, madvr is making assumptions about the display, and it's a very rough approximation.

the Tonemapping is a fanangling of the image's dynamic range to meet the author's intent within the capability of our TVs @ home.

You can profile the Display in HDR mode, however, the way HDR currently works on most TVs is, the TV has its own tonemapping. This tonemapping is non-linear, and unpredictable to Madvr, That's why we don't recommend profiling in this mode in most cases. You CAN TRY to profile it, but the resultant 3DLut is a static map for a moving target.

SDR mode on most TVs is more predictable, because it was built that way, to scale predictably with luminance. HDR modes are not built the same way.

The confusion for most people is, "Am we still gets HDR in SDR mode"

The answer is YES, it's still HDR. The MAGIC of Madvr is that it brings HDR to even PRE-HDR standard TVS, because the Majority of TVs have greater than 100nits of brightness and some with larger gamut than the SDR standard.

10bit hdr mode vs 8bit sdr mode, Not important, Madvr's engine takes care of this mismatch better than the Tv's processor most of the time.

Gamut, You have to use a mode on the TV which utilizes the native or full gamut of the TV, on some tvs, the normal mode does this, but others require the vivid mode, or some other mode.

Peak Brightness: can be established through measurement, or guessing.

TV's native SDR Tone curve. This is idealy 2.2 pure power, that's what Madvr assumes the TV is using. It may not be the case. Many TVs use 2.4 or have options for other curves like bt1886. You want to select 2.2 if possible.

If you have a meter, you want the native gamut mode, with the RGB tone response calibrated to 2.2 pure power 0-255, via HCFR software. Then profile the display through displaycal to generate the 3DLut for Madvr.

[Alexkral]

Actually, there is no way to know what is the proper way to correct the color when tone mapping, because there is not a linear relationship between both things. Even color appearance models fail in studies because they have not been developed for HDR. For example, the ICtCp color space that madVR uses, is perceptually uniform up to aproximately 500 nits, but anything beyond can be completely wrong.

So in the case of madVR/BT.2390 tone mapping, when the color is corrected following a linear relationship with the luminance compression, you end up with values ​​that are very out of gamut (I'm talking about values ​​of ±5 and more for a [0,1] range). These values ​​need to be strongly mapped later within the gamut, which defeats the purpose of the logic that has been followed previously for the saturation correction (which was wrong anyway).

So don't expect a 3DLut to do any magic with the color of the highlights, because at this time it is not possible to know for sure how it should be represented in a lower dynamic range. Lately, some color appearance models have been developed for HDR, but the result also doesn't seem to be too convincing.

[tp4tissue]

I didn't say 3DLut will give you total accuracy, 3DLut gives Madvr a MAP. WIthout which Madvr is completely blind.

Whatever future models come out, if you have a map, you can do the best calculations, without the map, it's all throwing darts again.

[chros]

3DLut gives Madvr a MAP. WIthout which Madvr is completely blind.
This doesn't have to do anything what @Alexkral said.

[mickeekung]

Did you already stop developing Madvr? No update for many months.

[onekmilesbehind]

Please read through the thread a bit. People have erroneously proclaimed this many times already, but that's no excuse to continue the trend.

Read back a few pages and you'll find info. Searching is not hard and you're more likely to get responsive answers if it's evident you've already put in some footwork.

[tp4tissue]

This doesn't have to do anything what @Alexkral said.

Yes it does, akral is saying you can't directly map hdr using the tonemapping.

I'm saying, regardless of how we map, we still need a map. It's perfectly relevant.

[SirMaster]

Did you already stop developing Madvr? No update for many months.

It's misleading.

madshi has put out a little over 113 updates to madVR since the official release you see on his website.

The most recent release was on Jan 20, 2020.

He has been working on bringing madVR to a dedicated hardware box a lot lately as well.

So no he did not stop and no signs of stopping.

[gfxnow]

It's misleading.

madshi has put out a little over 113 updates to madVR since the official release you see on his website.

The most recent release was on Jan 20, 2020.

He has been working on bringing madVR to a dedicated hardware box a lot lately as well.

So no he did not stop and no signs of stopping.

Are there any builds with those updates? :thanks:

[huhn]

sure all 113 are builds here is 113:
http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure113.zip

beware that these are test builds this one has a major know issues.

[ryrynz]

Are there any builds with those updates? :thanks:

As above. You didn't need to quote that entire post or any of it really, anyone can answer this. The link has been posted many times you could've found it by searching.

[tp4tissue]

sure all 113 are builds here is 113:
http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure113.zip

beware that these are test builds this one has a major know issues.

The broken smooth frame function? Pretty sure most users don't even know what that does. :D

[NM20]

I am getting a weird issue where I get a horizontal line across the whole screen during any movement. I use MadVR through MpC- HC.

I play .mkv and it has happened on two separate films, but the line was in different positions. One a third down from the top, one across the middle. It looks a little like screen tearing when playing a game.

Could this be due to an NVIDIA control panel setting? If so, which one.

Edit: I have solved the issue by doing a reset of the NVIDIA Control panel settings.

[mrkazador]

Is there a way to change the madvr settings through a phone while a movie is playing? I see there's a option to enable lan access but not sure what that does.

[chros]

Can we do 8x upscaling (4x doubling, 2x quadroupling) with madvr? If so, how? (e.g. for ~512px wide videos on 4k screen)

[SirMaster]

Is there a way to change the madvr settings through a phone while a movie is playing? I see there's a option to enable lan access but not sure what that does.

Not inherently.

I made a program that makes this possible though if you were really interested in it.

Essentially you could switch madVR profiles from your phone. So you can't just change any settings you want, but you can set up as many profiles as you want on madVR and switch between them from your phone.

[chros]

I made a program that makes this possible though if you were really interested in it.

Essentially you could switch madVR profiles from your phone. So you can;t just change any settings you want, but you can set up as many profiels as you want on madVR and switch between them from your phone.
I did exactly the same in html / javascript, it requires mpc-be/hc and keyboard shortcuts set up in madvr.
Upload yours, I'll be interested in it. I can do the same...

[el Filou]

Can we do 8x upscaling (4x doubling, 2x quadroupling) with madvr? If so, how? (e.g. for ~512px wide videos on 4k screen)What does it do in that case if you choose "let madVR decide" under "if any more upscaling needs to be done"?

[tp4tissue]

Is there a way to force downscaling first, THEN upscale to soften the image ?

[menac1ty]

I have a GTX 970 G1 from Gigabyte, when I overclock it, it's dead stable in every game or benchmark that is 100% load. But when I'm watching movies using madVr, despite only being used 50-65% with even low temps, it crashes my system and is not stable. Has anyone experienced this?

[tp4tissue]

I have a GTX 970 G1 from Gigabyte, when I overclock it, it's dead stable in every game or benchmark that is 100% load. But when I'm watching movies using madVr, despite only being used 50-65% with even low temps, it crashes my system and is not stable. Has anyone experienced this?

If it's h265, it may be due to avx

The 970 does not have h265 decode block. only the 960gtx does.

You're on CPU decode, if you use the 64bit version of MPCHC, it uses AVX code path.

Your CPU settings are not AVX Stable.

Use either the 32Bit version of MPCHC, or push the voltage up on your CPU until you're avx-stable.

[chros]

What does it do in that case if you choose "let madVR decide" under "if any more upscaling needs to be done"?
It's the same as a value is set (I tried with 352px wide video, just in case).
So I guess, there's no way to double quadroupling.

[chros]

I made a program that makes this possible though if you were really interested in it.

Essentially you could switch madVR profiles from your phone. So you can't just change any settings you want, but you can set up as many profiles as you want on madVR and switch between them from your phone.

I did exactly the same in html / javascript, it requires mpc-be/hc and keyboard shortcuts set up in madvr.
Upload yours, I'll be interested in it. I can do the same...

I've published the small madVR remote in the 7. point of this post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1823602#post1823602).

[SirMaster]

I've published the small madVR remote in the 7. point of this post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1823602#post1823602).

Thanks for reminding me. I will get my code in shape for publishing very soon. I never really intended to release my code but hey why not. I think it's good enough.

My program is a little more involved but is designed to also control other HT devices. It's not quite as user-friendly but overall I think it's easy enough to use but not quite as simple to add buttons to html page like yours. I am not a very big web guy.

[GoodGravyMan]

Has anyone seen an issue with black levels and 10/12 bit color?

I have a RX580 connected to a JVC RS2000, I have my GPU set to output full range RGB, MadVR to output limited (16-235), and the projector set to work in limited range (16-235). When I set 10/12 bit output from the AMD control center I see all the black level bars from 0-25 flash. When I am in 8 bit mode I only see 17-25 flash. The only thing I am changing is the output setting in the AMD software.

This only seems to happen when the video is made full screen, in both normal and exclusive mode. Sometimes when I set MadVR to output full range while in 10 bit mode only 17-25 flash, until I pause and/or trigger the seek bar in MPC, after that all the bars 0-25 flash again.

I see that the projector is receiving either 10bit or 8 bit RGB.

Is there a known issue with AMD and 10/12 bit color? What I am seeing here makes no sense!

I am using the latest MadVR plus 112b from the other thread, I have tried a fresh install of 92.17 and reset my settings but the issue is still there.

[tp4tissue]

@ Goodgravym,

It's easy to check via hcfr or displaycal, if it's clipping, the gamma (tone response) won't be a straight line.

what is your output setting on the rx580, 10bit 24hz 4K Limited ?

[GoodGravyMan]

The output on the RX580 is set to 4K, 24Hz, Full RGB. I am just changing the bit depth between 8 and 10 bits to see this issue.

I did measure with HCFR on 8bit, once i set the brightness correctly with the black clipping. I am tracking very well to a BT1886 gamma curve.

I can set it to 10bit and see what my gamma measures as.

[GoodGravyMan]

I think I might have narrowed down the issue a little. It appears to happen only in a D3D11 Full-screen Window 10bit. It is fine when in a D3D11 windowed 8bit or in D3D9.

it doesn't happen all the time but about 70% of the time. switching between windows types (showing the seek bar) makes it happen quite often.

I've attached some pictures of the issue I'm seeing. I don't know if this is an AMD driver issue, Windows 10, or something MadVR is doing.

[tp4tissue]

upload image and measurement to imgur, uploading here has that approval thing.

Do not use BT1886 for projector, use pure power 2.2 or 2.4.

[GoodGravyMan]

upload image and measurement to imgur, uploading here has that approval thing.

Do not use BT1886 for projector, use pure power 2.2 or 2.4.

here are the images:

https://imgur.com/a/ES9Xtia

i don't see any difference when i use hcfr to measure the gamma when in 10 bit vs 8bit but there is clearly a difference in the image it actually displays.

I don't know how MadTPG creates the test patches though so it might go back to the 10btit vs 8bit D3D11 settings

[mpchelp10]

I am playing a 4k HDR bluray with MPC-HC + madVR on a "fake" HDR screen (8+2 bits). If MPC-HC is windowed, I see the HDR. If I make MPC-HC fullscreen, the colors dull. If MPC-HC is not in focus or I bring up the seekbar, the colors go back to HDR. If MPC-HC is fullscreen and I have Task Manager open and set to Always on Top, the colors are back to HDR. Why is this? I installed MPC-HC/madVR using K-Lite code pack. Everything is default settings.
I am on Windows 10. Full screen is "regular" fullscreen, not full screen exclusive.
iGPU: HD 630
dGPU: NVIDIA 1050 Ti Max Q
both drivers are up to date
iGPU: HD 630
dGPU: NVIDIA 1050 Ti Max Q
both drivers are up to date

[tp4tissue]

here are the images:
https://imgur.com/a/ES9Xtia
i don't see any difference when i use hcfr to measure the gamma when in 10 bit vs 8bit but there is clearly a difference in the image it actually displays.


Check the 0% and 5% values in hcfr. measure->parameter/ # of greyscale ->20

Make sure to set the 0-255 / 16-235 option in the generator portion before selecting madtpg.

So it's on gdi, that gives you the selection on the bottom, then select it click ok, then go back, and select madtpg, and those options will grey out.

https://imgur.com/a/yxAejTU
https://imgur.com/a/EppUGx2

[GoodGravyMan]

All those settings look correct. I have no idea what is going on.

For now i am going to leave the output as 8 bit. Maybe i'll try and swap out the rx580 when i have chance and see if its an AMD thing.

[tp4tissue]

All those settings look correct. I have no idea what is going on.

For now i am going to leave the output as 8 bit. Maybe i'll try and swap out the rx580 when i have chance and see if its an AMD thing.

are you using hcfr w/ gdi or madtpg.

[GoodGravyMan]

are you using hcfr w/ gdi or madtpg.

I am using HCFR with madtpg as the generator.

[petran79]

I only encountered this issue on a laptop with potplayer, nvidia 1060gtx, i7 6700, 16 gb ram and win10.

It happens randomly. If I enter full screen and play a file with madvr, the video picture freezes. I can hear sound and move the mouse cursor fine but I can not do anything else. Not even Alt-F4 or Ctrl+alt+del works to bring the task manager and kill the process. Not even utils like SuperF4 work. Even if I press the laptop power button to log out nothing happens. I see the still picture with sound playing and the whole system is frozen except the mouse cursor. Only way is to press the power button to shut the system completely.

[huhn]

optimus?

[Budtz]

Im trying to get playback in24p with movies. I get servere stutter if i use dx11 without fse. (got 6core cpu and 2070gtx). if i use fse i think it works but madvr reports 60hz composition rate with 24p content. strange right?

isnt fse and dx11 needed to get proper 10bit hdr playback?

[tp4tissue]

optimus?

Optimus is nvidia, he's using rx580.

[tp4tissue]

I am using HCFR with madtpg as the generator.


screenshot your amd display settings, and madvr display settings

Is your projector reporting that it's receiving 10bit input + limited

It could be the case that the projector is not playing nice as well.

[Alexkral]

When I open a video with MPC-HC in a window of the same size (Video Frame = Normal Size, Zoom = 100%, Preset = Minimal 1) madVR says it is scaling the luma. :confused:

EDIT: Nevermind, I had "Activate doubling / quadrupling" > Always.

[GoodGravyMan]

screenshot your amd display settings, and madvr display settings

Is your projector reporting that it's receiving 10bit input + limited

It could be the case that the projector is not playing nice as well.


Here are the settings.

https://imgur.com/a/dFQJLUN

I never see the projector move off of 10Bit. I have also unplugged the receiver and gone straight to the projector but it makes no difference.

I also included a video showing how i can cause the issue really easily. The output sometimes looks good but if i pause the video or show the seek bar something gets messed up with the black levels.

This also happens on both HDR and SDR content.