madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[AngelGraves13]

HDR support is working now. At least it is on my 1080p display. madVR takes the HDR luminance values and rescales them to any display by decoding this information before it reaches the display, so the display doesn't have to do this decoding itself.

The same can be said for the color gamut, which is matrixed to the gamut set in calibration.

What won't work is the playback of copyright-protected UHD content.

Exactly...that is until MakeMKV adds support for it.

[baii]

Some actually have to downgrade, (or add a second card?) To get real 10 bit hevc hardware decode. When you really have enough contents, it will get supported, so I personally really don't stress over it.
Anyways, if I am right, madvr performance should not care if the source is hevc or what not, all that matters should be size (pixel ) and fps.



Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

[Warner306]

Some actually have to downgrade, (or add a second card?) To get real 10 bit hevc hardware decode. When you really have enough contents, it will get supported, so I personally really don't stress over it.
Anyways, if I am right, madvr performance should not care if the source is hevc or what not, all that matters should be size (pixel ) and fps.



Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Only the GTX 950/960 will do a full hardware decode of 10-bit HEVC.

[James Freeman]

Okay fellows, Thanks!

The test video is 4k 10bit 60fps 50Mbit/s, so it is not yet the heaviest the format allows, the heaviest would be with 128Mbit/s and rec.2020 with Metadata which has to be scaled by madVR.
As far as I understand, a hardware decoder is essential for the next generation of video, because even current generation overclocked desktop CPUs are barely managing.
A new GPU with hardware decoder will bring the CPU usage to 0% as I see with the heaviest 40Mbit/s 1080p 24fps bluray content.

My GTX660 handles video just fine with only 20% load of the VPU (video decoder) on 40Mbit/s 1080p videos.
The GPU load is around 10% because I use Lanczos and Bicubic, nothing special.
I don't feels the need to upgrade my GPU (I don't play games at all), but for HEVC hardware decoding maybe I should.

[AngelGraves13]

Yes, we need a new gen of GPUs for sure.

[gendouhydeist]

Hi guys with the latest madvr .90+. I'm having with issues with the delayed video frame as for the OSD I'm only having 2 drop frame and 0 delayed frame but video was totally out of sync with the audio, as it progress the delay increases.

http://i.imgur.com/A9hVJ9E.jpg

My Laptop Specs:
Intel 4770hq i7
16GB RAM
NVIDIA GT 745M

[Manni]

HDR support is working now. At least it is on my 1080p display. madVR takes the HDR luminance values and rescales them to any display by decoding this information before it reaches the display, so the display doesn't have to do this decoding itself.

The same can be said for the color gamut, which is matrixed to the gamut set in calibration.

What won't work is the playback of copyright-protected UHD content.

I know this, but this isn't HDR support, as in passing through the metadata for the HDR display to handle it. Madshi himself has commented on this, I'm only reporting what he's alreaded posted. He will consider implementing HDR support (which isn't the current HDR to SDR conversion) when GPU will support HDMI 2.0a at GPU driver and API level. His words, not mine.

I've tested MadVR's HDR to SDR conversion and it works well, but it's not optimized for each HDR display (and of course reap some of the benefits of HDR content on SDR displays, which is great). HDR10 calibration is such a mess that manufacturers are the only ones to know how they handle HDR on each display. Hence the need for proper HDR support, as MadVR has no way to know which display is connected and which settings are optimal for that display.

What's great is that it's giving us options to try to find optimal settings (like the nits settings). It would be nice to have an HDR passthrough option though, just in case it gives us a better (as in more accurate) picture for some HDR displays which can be autocalibrated by the manufacturer in accordance with whichever HDR10 calibration rules they have decided to implement for their display, as there is no standard.

Let's not open an HDR10 calibration discussion here, it's off topic, but Madshi has made it very clear that the current HDR implementation was an HDR to SDR conversion for SDR displays, and that a proper passthrough HDR implementation would only be possible with HMDI 2.0a support at GPU/Driver/API levels.

[XTrojan]

Okay fellows, Thanks!

The test video is 4k 10bit 60fps 50Mbit/s, so it is not yet the heaviest the format allows, the heaviest would be with 128Mbit/s and rec.2020 with Metadata which has to be scaled by madVR.
As far as I understand, a hardware decoder is essential for the next generation of video, because even current generation overclocked desktop CPUs are barely managing.
A new GPU with hardware decoder will bring the CPU usage to 0% as I see with the heaviest 40Mbit/s 1080p 24fps bluray content.

My GTX660 handles video just fine with only 20% load of the VPU (video decoder) on 40Mbit/s 1080p videos.
The GPU load is around 10% because I use Lanczos and Bicubic, nothing special.
I don't feels the need to upgrade my GPU (I don't play games at all), but for HEVC hardware decoding maybe I should.

The bigger issue will be cracking HDCP 2.2 and the new AACS, i'm sure HDR movies won't be able to be ripped for a while. After we can rip it the second issue will be HDR metadata as the GPU handling the HDR is different from the TV handling it.

Thirdly, i'm slightly pissed off my JS9000 doesn't fully support HDR, damn marketing, lol.

The good news with HDR is that local dimming on most TVs won't "bug" when used with a HTPC, as the TV lights up areas with movements it also lights up subtitles, making local dimming nearly useless on HTPC setups as it ruins the movie more than helping.

Logically these new subtitles will have fixed positions due to HDR metadata so i hope Madshi will incorporate that or give an option to disable subtitle HDR metadata.

[iSeries]

If the queues aren't filling, your settings are probably still too aggressive.

I can't think which setting would be too aggressive. I should note that I'm downscaling to 1080p, but I tried all scaling methods and and still wouldn't play smoothly. The decoding queue stays full, all other queues stay at 0. I played a similar clip 10bit HEVC, 50fps, and it played smooth as silk with all queues full.

On another note, I've been playing around with some HDR demos on a non-HDR TV. Anyone know roughly what nits I should be choosing for an (uncalibrated) LG plasma?

[Warner306]

I was finally able to watch a 3D Blu-ray yesterday. I converted an ISO to an MKV with MakeMKV. The movie was an MPEG4-AVC version of Avengers: Age of Ultron. The source was an uncompressed frame-packed rip sent to an active 3D display.

I must say I was impressed. While the 3D effect is modest at times, the level of detail was excellent. I was even able to use crispen edges to sharpen the image further.

If I was to choose a version of a movie to watch, I would go for the 3D version. It is a shame 3D technology is being abandoned. But it would take a lot of new titles in my collection to care enough about this tech.

The quirks include some unnecessary time browsing the TV's menus to get 3D working and some trouble getting the 3D glasses to sync with the display. The whole process could be simplified to improve the experience.

[madshi]

I think there is some sort of memory leak introduced in v0.90.4.
Found it, will be fixed in the next build. Thanks for letting me know.

madshi, I originally wrote this:

Then I sent a debug log per your request. I missed your followup request:

I certainly can do whatever testing that you request :)
I think the problem will probably be fixed in the next build. If not, let me know.

I've been having an issue with profile cycling in madVR v0.90.8, (I think it was present in some other recent versions, but I'm not certain). Specifically, the keyboard shortcut for one of my profile groups only cycles through a subset of the profiles that exist for my group.
You can download old versions of madVR here (http://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions) and possibly determine the last version that worked for you.
^ As ryrynz said, it would be helpful to know which madVR build introduced this problem, since you say that it worked ok in older builds. It might also be helpful for me if you would make madVR settings available to me. If you have a settings.bin file in your madVR folder please upload it somewhere for me (don't attach to the forum).

But mVR only allows one instance IIRC, are you implying that someday there might be a TV with mVR taking care of picture processing? :p
madVR has allowed more than 1 instance for a long time now. DVBViewer has added madVR support a couple of months ago for live TV, including PiP (so 2 madVR instances at the same time).

I've done some more testing, installed the latest Nvidia hotfix drivers 361.82 just to rule out a possible driver problem. Build 0.89.13 introduced the problem, I tried 0.89.12 and 0.88.8 and had no problems using those two.
I've found a bug in 0.89.13, so I hope this will be fixed in the next build. If not, please let me know.

Actually now that I think about it..

Hey madshi how about a compact OSD? Just showing dropped/delayed frames, render time etc? Something that can be checked during playback that's a little less intrusive.
It's not the right time to do cosmetical work now.

so I'm still able to get posterizing with the .8 build: http://thumbnails113.imagebam.com/46442/14918e464416965.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/14918e464416965)
Euh, that looks extremely ugly! Can you upload your settings.bin file for me, please? And please make a screenshot with the Ctrl+J OSD turned on, so I can see your target resolution etc.

I'm an avid madVR user but I was slightly bemused with all the effort to support 3D, now that it appears that Samsung and LG are about to pull the plug was it and is it really worth the effort for what appears to be a dead format in its current guise ...
They're not pulling the plug, they're making 3D fans pay through their nose by limiting 3D to premium models. I don't know if at some point in the future they might really pull the plug, but I think there is enough content out there to make it worthwhile for TV companies to keep offering the feature. After all, their development is done, so it shouldn't be such a dramatic effort for them to simply keep offering it.

In any case, I have some 3D movies and want to watch them myself. Using madVR, of course. So this is just as much self interest as it is a checkbox feature I wanted to have implemented.

Anyone else having issues with dragging MPC-HC from screen to screen with the latest MadVR update? When you drag it to another screen now the video freezes and you need to pause and play the video again. Around version 0.90.4 the video would just keep playing.
Should be fixed in the next build.

How will madVR handle UHD bluray? Let's say the color space is Rec. 2020, but the info is limited to DCI-P3, and you're watching it on a sRGB/Rec. 709 display. Will it look normal, and will you need a 3D LUT? What if you're watching the same content on a wide gamut display, that supports >98% DCI-P3. Will you be able to take advantage of the new standard?
There are 2 options to play HDR content: You can pass it through to the display with all the HDR metadata and let the display do all the math. Or alternatively, madVR can process HDR content to make it look as good as possible within the limits of what your TV can do. You don't need a 3dlut, unless you want to calibrate your display. You can simply play HDR content, and madVR will automatically convert it. By default madVR will convert to BT.709, but if you tell madVR that your display is actually calibrated to DCI-P3, madVR will happily output that.

Apparently my i7 3770k (3900 Mhz each core) is no good for UHD with madVR.... :(
GPU Nvidia GTX660 is not used for decoding.
Problem search 101:

Enable Ctrl+J and check which queue (from top to bottom) is the first one which is less than half full. That's the bottleneck.

Try disabling the black bar detection (in case you have it enabled). It's currently not well optimized and runs on 1 thread, only, so for 4Kp60 content it might become the bottleneck. It's on my to do list to optimize the black bar detection code and make it multi-threaded.

I looked into this. It seems there is only an issue when you playback a DVD as a disc. If you open a vob file directly, either on the disc or one ripped to your hard drive, the subtitles are moved, although they are a weird grey colour in this instance. See the screenshots below:

http://i.imgur.com/19DsGV0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ROxICgA.jpg

Do you have it working when playing a DVD back as an actual disc, either inserted into your PC or otherwise?
Last time I checked it worked for me. I'll need to be able to reproduce the problem in order to do something about it. Ideally, I'll need a sample and your madVR settings (e.g. "settings.bin" file in your madVR folder, if there is one).

I can confirm that the crash happens consistently in 32bit and 64bit as of v0.90.8. I can't test older versions since videohelp.com seems to be down, but I'll report on them when it comes back up.

Here's the crash report on v0.90.8 64bit:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9iVOLolmqxdMDlSMk5xa2F2Yzg
Don't have access to that crash report. In any case, I've found a couple of bugs which will be fixed in the next build. I hope that this will solve your problem. If not, please double check old builds to make sure it's really a new problem, and then it would be very useful to know which exact build introduced it. Thanks.

madVR, could you please share with us the difference between your 'tweaked' SSIM algorithms and the 'original' Shiandow's version?
Who is "us"? Shiandow knows all the "tweaks" I implemented. It's all still a work in progress, though.

Hi guys with the latest madvr .90+. I'm having with issues with the delayed video frame as for the OSD I'm only having 2 drop frame and 0 delayed frame but video was totally out of sync with the audio, as it progress the delay increases.
The present queue looks weird with 1-1/8. Not sure what's going on there. But as long as the "dropped frames" and "presentation glitches" counters don't increase, audio and video should be perfectly in sync. Have you tried a different video renderer to check that it's really specific to madVR? I'd rather guess that your audio renderer makes problems, or maybe the file is broken or something. If you're sure that it's a madVR problem, then is it specific to this one video file? Or does it occur with all video files?

[mark0077]

Hi madshi, I also get posterizing 0.90.8. Heres a screenshot with Ctrl-J. Let me know if you require settings.bin

http://i66.tinypic.com/15rgvgz.jpg

[nevcairiel]

They're not pulling the plug, they're making 3D fans pay through their nose by limiting 3D to premium models. I don't know if at some point in the future they might really pull the plug, but I think there is enough content out there to make it worthwhile for TV companies to keep offering the feature. After all, their development is done, so it shouldn't be such a dramatic effort for them to simply keep offering it.

Actually at least some manufacturers have confirmed that there will in fact be no 3D TVs in their 2016 lineup.
Philips is one of those, and will likely not remain alone. Samsung was rumored to follow suit, but it has not been confirmed yet. LG has greatly reduced the number of 3D enabled models, and Sony has been doing that for the last generations already.

I have no idea how that situation is in the projector market.

Consumer interest is going down, as is available content. Filming in 3D is too expensive for the studios, so ignoring animation, 99% of all 3D movies are post-processed from a 2D camera, which just makes the 3D effect gimmicky at best.
On proper 3D movies (as in: filmed in 3D) its at least somewhat worthwhile, but those are so rare that I couldn't even name 5 life-action movies that did it.

Its unfortunate that proper glasses-free tech never really took off or was too expensive, but the glasses do put a big hamper into the adoption and enjoyment rate, especially active shutter glasses like my Sony TV uses, the user experience is just terrible. A slight tilt of the head makes them stop working.

I could see the entire concept to disappear within a few more years and it becoming sort of legacy.

[madshi]

It's not *that* bad. See here for a list of real vs 2D converted 3D movies:

http://www.realorfake3d.com/

[scollaco]

Actually at least some manufacturers have confirmed that there will in fact be no 3D TVs in their 2016 lineup.
Philips is one of those, and will likely not remain alone. Samsung was rumored to follow suit, but it has not been confirmed yet. LG has greatly reduced the number of 3D enabled models, and Sony has been doing that for the last generations already.

I have no idea how that situation is in the projector market.

Consumer interest is going down, as is available content. Filming in 3D is too expensive for the studios, so ignoring animation, 99% of all 3D movies are post-processed from a 2D camera, which just makes the 3D effect gimmicky at best.
On proper 3D movies (as in: filmed in 3D) its at least somewhat worthwhile, but those are so rare that I couldn't even name 5 life-action movies that did it.

Its unfortunate that proper glasses-free tech never really took off or was too expensive, but the glasses do put a big hamper into the adoption and enjoyment rate, especially active shutter glasses like my Sony TV uses, the user experience is just terrible. A slight tilt of the head makes them stop working.

I could see the entire concept to disappear within a few more years and it becoming sort of legacy.

There are quite a few post converted 3D movies that looks fantastic. Post conversion has gotten so much better than the days of Clash of The Titans.

Mad Max was post converted and looked amazing in 3D. The Martian was shot in 3d and to me looked less dimensional than Mad Max. It all depends on how much the Director wants to push the depth.

These were post converted and really worked well in 3D:

Everest
Jurassic World
San Andreas
The Walk

I pray and hope 1080p 3D in projectors will always remain even when 4K projectors become more mainstream. I personally find 3D much more immersive on a large screen when it's done right than even watching something in 4K HDR (From what I've seen in stores).

It's unfortunate that people have watched 3D on improper displays that are prone to crosstalk and ghosting and have been turned off by 3D.

I'm hoping you and madshi will implement 3D iso support in the future of LAV and madVR. Thanks again for already giving us some 3d support right now with mkv

[nevcairiel]

It's not *that* bad. See here for a list of real vs 2D converted 3D movies:

http://www.realorfake3d.com/

There is like what, 4 movies not counting animation in 2015, vs. 20+ fakes?
Ok its only 80% fake then. :p

(Of those 4, I had only heard of 2, and seen 1)

But it does show the trend of declining content as well. 2015 had significantly less than any of the previous years.

It's unfortunate that people have watched 3D on improper displays that are prone to crosstalk and ghosting and have been turned off by 3D.

I have only ever seen full 3D movies in cinemas, and if they can't make it look good, what chance has some small home projector or TV for that?
And if consumers have to buy absolute high-end setups with big projection setups and whatnot to enjoy 3D, i think its fairly obvious why it failed.


I'm hoping you and madshi will implement 3D iso support in the future of LAV and madVR.

There will never be any kind of support for ISOs, only plain unpacked media files.
Afterall, LAV can't open a 2D ISO either, so thats not going to change. :)

[dansrfe]

Don't have access to that crash report. In any case, I've found a couple of bugs which will be fixed in the next build. I hope that this will solve your problem. If not, please double check old builds to make sure it's really a new problem, and then it would be very useful to know which exact build introduced it. Thanks.

My mistake, you should have access to the report now. Do you happen to have v0.89.x builds that I can check against? Not sure when videohelp.com will come back online.

In any case, thanks for looking into it. Would a debug report be helpful as well?

[scollaco]

There will never be any kind of support for ISOs, only plain unpacked media files.
Afterall, LAV can't open a 2D ISO either, so thats not going to change. :)

Oh I was confused. In the older builds of LAV and madVR (before 3D implementation), If I opened a 3D iso file, it played it in 2D but straight from the iso. Is this because of the player (MPC-BE?) Forgive my lack of knowledge :)

[nevcairiel]

Oh I was confused. In the older builds of LAV and madVR (before 3D implementation), If I opened a 3D iso file, it played it in 2D but straight from the iso. Is this because of the player (MPC-BE?) Forgive my lack of knowledge :)

Couldn't really tell you. Usually you would need to mount an ISO before LAV could access it. On Windows 8 and newer, Windows itself can mount ISOs, so maybe it does that and then autostart launches the player as it detects a new Blu-ray showing up.

[madshi]

I have no idea how that situation is in the projector market.
I don't know any current (home theater) projector models which do *not* support 3D.

There is like what, 4 movies not counting animation in 2015, vs. 20+ fakes?
Ok its only 80% fake then. :p

(Of those 4, I had only heard of 2, and seen 1)

But it does show the trend of declining content as well. 2015 had significantly less than any of the previous years.
You said you didn't know 5 true 3D filmed (and non-animation) movies, so as a quick fix I linked to that realorfake3d website, because that site showed about 200 true 3D movies (some/many of them animation, though). That website doesn't seem to be complete, though. If you look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:2015_3D_films

The number of 3D movies per year seems to be quite stable:

2010: 51
2011: 76
2012: 66
2013: 70
2014: 66
2015: 68

That website doesn't list how many of them are filmed in 3D and how many converted, though.

[Thunderbolt8]

Samsung was rumored to follow suit, but it has not been confirmed yet.it has http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1455263207

[madshi]

Generally it seems that 3D is in trouble in the CE market (at least with flat panels, projectors are a different topic). In movie theaters 3D still seems to work ok, though. As long as film makers continue to make 3D movies, and as long as there will still be 3D Blu-Rays released, I don't consider it dead (yet).

[nevcairiel]

That website doesn't seem to be complete, though. If you look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:2015_3D_films

That list has a whole bunch of asian and middle-eastern movies which the other page lacks entirely, seems to still be rather popular over there i guess.
I have been going to the cinema quite regularly over the last couple years (at least 30-40 movies a year), and it certainly does feel like its getting rarer that I need to pack my 3D glasses, though. Don't have any number evidence on that, however, and of course we don't watch every single movie. :p

[leeperry]

Euh, that looks extremely ugly! Can you upload your settings.bin file for me, please? And please make a screenshot with the Ctrl+J OSD turned on, so I can see your target resolution etc.
Your wish is my command. (https://mega.nz/#!C5Y02aTR!k1zddQgrcLG4VIsOd6TsgN9BMZP1tgsIdwaCcdICoBw) The trigger is to run SSIM "detailed" together with NNEDI3, as "clean" works fine.

I had more thoughts about when I said "SSIM is far more effective than any kind of bicubic downscaling" and it seems to me that SR is mostly elaborated good ole unsharp and RS chroma + double luma SR + chroma SR + NNEDI3 doubling + sxbr quad + SSIM downscaling with me complaining about a razor sharp digitis picture makes no sense at all :p

You seem unwilling to provide softer SR strengths for some reason so it seems clear to me that I have to build on SSIM because all other downscalers are mostly destroying all the work done upstream and find a combination that would provide an acceptable compromise between sharpness and naturalness. Surely LSF/unsharp improve motion smoothness but there's a price to pay and it's called digitis, I shall try to go Jinc AR for chroma and ditch SR if providing softer strengths is really out of the question. Enabling FRC might do the trick, need to rework my settings from scratch :o

madVR has allowed more than 1 instance for a long time now. DVBViewer has added madVR support a couple of months ago for live TV, including PiP (so 2 madVR instances at the same time).
Good to know, watching HDTV using DVBViewer must be quite something with Reclock being able to play movies at 24fps and mVR taking care of business :)

[nevcairiel]

Good to know, watching HDTV using DVBViewer must be quite something with Reclock being able to play movies at 24fps and mVR taking care of business :)

Slowing down a PAL movie to 24fps during LiveTV is not something that actually works, because you would run out of sync with the live broadcast. Would need to record to be able to do that.
Unless you just want it to sync the audio clock, but then broadcasts are usually not 24p, either 25/50 in EU or 29/59 in US.

[leeperry]

Slowing down a PAL movie to 24fps during LiveTV is not something that actually works
ORLY? I was told by several ppl that Reclock worked fine to do 25@24 on live TV, oh well.

[Arm3nian]

The first 3D movie I saw was Spy Kids 3D when I was a kid. It was cool I guess.

The second movie I saw in 3D was Star Trek into Darkness in the theaters. I missed the first 25 minutes because it was impossible to watch without getting an aneurysm.

Also I wear glasses, and putting 3D glasses over prescription lenses is extremely uncomfortable and annoying.

[e-t172]

Actually at least some manufacturers have confirmed that there will in fact be no 3D TVs in their 2016 lineup.
Philips is one of those, and will likely not remain alone. Samsung was rumored to follow suit, but it has not been confirmed yet. LG has greatly reduced the number of 3D enabled models, and Sony has been doing that for the last generations already.

Consumer interest is going down, as is available content.

I could see the entire concept to disappear within a few more years and it becoming sort of legacy.

Not to mention that "4K 3D" is not a thing even on paper (the UHD Blu-Ray spec even explicitly mentions that 3D is completely unsupported). Which means that as 4K becomes more mainstream, people will be forced to choose between 4K and 3D. That could be the final nail in the coffin.

Generally it seems that 3D is in trouble in the CE market (at least with flat panels, projectors are a different topic). In movie theaters 3D still seems to work ok, though. As long as film makers continue to make 3D movies, and as long as there will still be 3D Blu-Rays released, I don't consider it dead (yet).

I don't see why 3D Blu-rays would continue to be released if only a small minority of viewers (the ones with 3D projectors) will be able to play them. It wouldn't make a lot of marketing sense.

[scollaco]

A lot of people are saying 3D is uncomfortable for them, bulky glasses etc.. etc...
Yet they rave about VR and putting on heavy head sets. :confused:

I know there are other few people out there like me that really find 3d immersive.
At home, the only way to enjoy 3D is with a projector on a big screen (I have 127" screen). But I understand not everyone can have that setup and that is why it's sales are declining.

Hopefully Marvel and DC will at least keep cranking their movies in 3D. Also I know some Director's love the 3D format. Let's hope for my sake they stick to it :)

Here is a page that gets updated with all the upcoming 3D movies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_3D_films

Also in other countries 3D is still big. Germany for example. So if US refuses to put a specific movie in 3d...I'll have to import it unfortunately.

[nevcairiel]

A lot of people are saying 3D is uncomfortable for them, bulky glasses etc.. etc...
Yet they rave about VR and putting on heavy head sets. :confused:

Eventhough I haven't actually worn such a VR headset yet, I did order one, in any case..
When I watch a movie, I want to relax, and I probably wouldn't want to watch a movie in a VR headset. But gaming is something different for me.


Also in other countries 3D is still big. Germany for example.

Really. I didn't notice.

[scollaco]

Not to mention that "4K 3D" is not a thing even on paper (the UHD Blu-Ray spec even explicitly mentions that 3D is completely unsupported). Which means that as 4K becomes more mainstream, people will be forced to choose between 4K and 3D. That could be the final nail in the coffin.
I don't see why 3D Blu-rays would continue to be released if only a small minority of viewers (the ones with 3D projectors) will be able to play them. It wouldn't make a lot of marketing sense.

Sadly for me...you could be right. But I know a lot of people on many forums are complaining how they have to choose between 4K and 3D and are asking why the studios can't include the 1080p 3D disc along with the 4K disc. Especially those that would want the option.

For me I think of it this way. Imagine a Director like Ridley Scott has gone through all the trouble of filming a movie like "The Martian" in 3D and then the studio forces you to choose 4K or 3D. Then in fact people by choosing 4K are not truly seeing the movie as the Director intended. For me the option is then clear to choose 3D over 4K.

[scollaco]

Really. I didn't notice.

Yes actually way more than other countries. German studios will go out of their way to even do a crap post conversion for some crap horror movie and sell it in 3D. Sadly, this could be also why people are disliking 3D.

[nevcairiel]

Yes actually way more than other countries. German studios will go out of their way to even do a crap post conversion for some crap horror movie and sell it in 3D. Sadly, this could be also why people are disliking 3D.

I suppose, german-made movies are generally pretty terrible =p
I don't really remember many german 3D movies in the cinema the last two years or so, unless they produce them straight to Blu-ray, which would be weird.

[scollaco]

I suppose, german-made movies are generally pretty terrible =p
I don't really remember many german 3D movies in the cinema the last two years or so, unless they produce them straight to Blu-ray, which would be weird.

Yes what I meant is that 3D is bigger in Germany so that is why they will take a regular 2D movie (American movie even), post convert it terribly and put it straight to bluray in 3D even though the movie existed only in 2D.

You are right there aren't many theatrical Germany movies that are in 3D in theaters.

[aufkrawall]

I downscaled leeperry's lighttower example with SSIM Clean gamma light by 50% per axis and then scaled it up to WQHD with NNEDI3 256 quadrupling. I applied SuperRes gamma light with a strength of 4.

Just NNEDI3:
http://abload.de/thumb/nnedi3256uku8h.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=nnedi3256uku8h.png)

SuperRes 4:
http://abload.de/thumb/sr4glfzun8.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=sr4glfzun8.png)

Hardly any aliasing introduced by SuperRes, even with a strength of 4.

I can just say that it's extremely important how the image has been downscaled, whether LL or GL.
When you downscale an image in LL, you also have to use LL for SuperRes, else you will get terrible aliasing.
With GL downscaling + LL SR, you will get aliasing as well, mut it may be less obvious as dark lines are boosted instead of thinned.

So, if you suspect SuperRes of beeing faulty regarding aliasing, please check LL vs. GL.
Luckily, it doesn't seem to make an additional real difference whether GL or LL is used when there is downscaling because of image doubling options.

1080p original:
http://abload.de/thumb/originalbdscreenshot1wcsje.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=originalbdscreenshot1wcsje.png)

[Warner306]

Oh I was confused. In the older builds of LAV and madVR (before 3D implementation), If I opened a 3D iso file, it played it in 2D but straight from the iso. Is this because of the player (MPC-BE?) Forgive my lack of knowledge :)

Convert the ISO to an MKV with MakeMKV -- provided the source is frame-packed 3D and not half SbS. This is what I did and the whole process took an hour or so.

[huhn]

Not to mention that "4K 3D" is not a thing even on paper (the UHD Blu-Ray spec even explicitly mentions that 3D is completely unsupported). Which means that as 4K becomes more mainstream, people will be forced to choose between 4K and 3D. That could be the final nail in the coffin.

of cause they are not adding 3D to the current BD spec. they will do this later so people have to buy new hardware.simple marketing.

one of the reasons the HDMI 2.0 spec is so far behind DP 1.3.

not sure if it will work and i don't think it will. but at least they will try it again.

@germany likes 3D BD.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

germany likes DVDs!

[Sunset1982]

Good movies in 3D are rare, sadly, but if you got a good one (like Avatar or Sammys adventures) you will be impressed. But I'm only happy with 3D since I got my passive 3D 4K TV. Active 3D wasn't that good and easy like passive 3D.

Every person I showed one of the good 3D movies was totally impressed!

The problem is, that most people don't know how good 3D can be.

Personally I would like to keep the option to watch it in the future. So I'm very glad that madvr and LAV finally got 3D support and I hope, that 3D will live for a while...

Since I found madvr and this thread I love my hobby even more. Love tweaking my HTPC and trying new madvr versions. A big THANK YOU to madshi for his fast support and this great of software! :thanks:

[RyuzakiL]

Is there a recommended Monitor or HDTV for MadVR use?, what are the things I should take note when buying such display? Just thinking about 10bit/8bit/When to Dither/HDR/RGB/YCBCR/Motion Blur/Calibration makes wanna take some courses with regards to those things hehe..

although with regards to sharpening and sorts I already have a pre-defined settings that I think is pleasing to my eyes, so the only problems/confusions that concerns me is that when I'm gonna purchase a certain display whether a monitor or an HDTV, what are the things that I should search for? and is there a Monitor or an HDTV that's already been Calibrated?

P.S. 3D gimmick is a no go for me, I think 10bit, HDR, 4k are the future.

[har3inger]

I downscaled leeperry's lighttower example with SSIM Clean gamma light by 50% per axis and then scaled it up to WQHD with NNEDI3 256 quadrupling. I applied SuperRes gamma light with a strength of 4.

Just NNEDI3:
http://abload.de/thumb/nnedi3256uku8h.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=nnedi3256uku8h.png)

SuperRes 4:
http://abload.de/thumb/sr4glfzun8.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=sr4glfzun8.png)

Hardly any aliasing introduced by SuperRes, even with a strength of 4.

I can just say that it's extremely important how the image has been downscaled, whether LL or GL.
When you downscale an image in LL, you also have to use LL for SuperRes, else you will get terrible aliasing.
With GL downscaling + LL SR, you will get aliasing as well, mut it may be less obvious as dark lines are boosted instead of thinned.

So, if you suspect SuperRes of beeing faulty regarding aliasing, please check LL vs. GL.
Luckily, it doesn't seem to make an additional real difference whether GL or LL is used when there is downscaling because of image doubling options.

1080p original:
http://abload.de/thumb/originalbdscreenshot1wcsje.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=originalbdscreenshot1wcsje.png)

In my experience, 960*540 -> anything won't usually show any aliasing problems with superres, since problems manifest when the source gets too small. I mostly see problems when the scaling is for 720x288->1080p or similar (although now when I think about it, it's probably just a case of garbage in, garbage out). I haven't tried linear light vs gamma light for those sources though, and will go back to see if it makes a difference.

[madshi]

I downscaled leeperry's lighttower example with SSIM Clean gamma light by 50% per axis and then scaled it up to WQHD with NNEDI3 256 quadrupling. I applied SuperRes gamma light with a strength of 4.

Hardly any aliasing introduced by SuperRes, even with a strength of 4.

I can just say that it's extremely important how the image has been downscaled, whether LL or GL.
When you downscale an image in LL, you also have to use LL for SuperRes, else you will get terrible aliasing.
With GL downscaling + LL SR, you will get aliasing as well, mut it may be less obvious as dark lines are boosted instead of thinned.

So, if you suspect SuperRes of beeing faulty regarding aliasing, please check LL vs. GL.
Luckily, it doesn't seem to make an additional real difference whether GL or LL is used when there is downscaling because of image doubling options.
Good point. But still, we want to have "setup once and forget" options, so it's not a good thing if an algorithm sometimes produces aliasing. The user won't like it if he has to toggle LL on/off for every other movie.

[madshi]

madVR v0.90.9 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* slightly improved SSIM quality (even stronger detail reconstruction)
* removed SSimDetailed option, now SSimClean is always used
* removed "use 1.6 gamma instead of 2.2" option
* fixed: moving media player to another monitor resulted in paused playback
* fixed: rendering eventually left some D3D interfaces open
* fixed: madVR shutdown memory leak
* fixed: some problems with live TV (detected by DVBViewer devs)
* fixed: 1080p23 was forced even when not using "auto" (frame packing)

[aufkrawall]

Good point. But still, we want to have "setup once and forget" options, so it's not a good thing if an algorithm sometimes produces aliasing. The user won't like it if he has to toggle LL on/off for every other movie.
What do you think how material usually is downscaled?
My wild guess would be that with digital processing, downscaling in GL is most common. But I might be totally wrong.

[RBG]

madshi
Hello.
When I use madVr(0.90.8) with PotPlayer x86(1.6.58613 - latest stable version) I get a memory leak. I have recorded a video (http://www.mediafire.com/watch/3fm7tsj5lt63p6o/madVR_leak.mp4) to show how exactly this happens and what actions are needed to reproduce memory leak. Just in case here (http://www.mediafire.com/?tgcovmxfol0m666) is a link for the video that is used in my capture, though it seems to happen in other videos too. On the capture I open the test video and start to rewind video forward by pressing right arrow key with an interval of about 1 or 2 seconds. After some time the amount of modified memory starts to grow excessively and eventually my PC runs out of the memory. In order to free up used memory PotPlayer have to be closed.

PC specs:
Windows 7 x64 sp1
32 GB RAM
8192 MB Page File
1280 MB VRam
GeForce 361.75 driver.

Mirrors for videos(test + capture) on mega:
https://mega.nz/#!u1EUAICT!JloZaFVjbTaQhd1Cx_L6d83jfYdFVGXAALzAzVvbK04 - test video
https://mega.nz/#!b8MWibza!aDVDMYdEKqzZKIxyts5qm9TGGpdjdzE38QyZrkk1x4c - memory leak capture

My MadVr settings:
http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/e170e4748621657b8ce424e574b76a61.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/e170e4748621657b8ce424e574b76a61.png)http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/43a4312cd03fa05deb4552277e0f904b.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/43a4312cd03fa05deb4552277e0f904b.png)http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/d6bb70f48be427339cf3f01aa0983a53.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/d6bb70f48be427339cf3f01aa0983a53.png)http://i1.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/32b3206269fea35cb81383f28eb1fb0d.png (http://i1.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/32b3206269fea35cb81383f28eb1fb0d.png)http://i1.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/5b95034890ba79ae1e8ed7a9e4db82a3.png (http://i1.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/5b95034890ba79ae1e8ed7a9e4db82a3.png)http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/dc1087c43c19356f703a474773846115.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/dc1087c43c19356f703a474773846115.png)http://i2.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/4f1cbf1831c7fa14a980d4e96b136d5a.png (http://i2.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/4f1cbf1831c7fa14a980d4e96b136d5a.png)http://i5.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/f8e7fddf313d6b7a36709ecb7b243b7c.png (http://i5.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/f8e7fddf313d6b7a36709ecb7b243b7c.png)http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/b49813bbd236ed7fec7101e7c7e7199c.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/b49813bbd236ed7fec7101e7c7e7199c.png)http://i2.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/c87b0caf92943f427f2a81b233d6e09a.png (http://i2.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/c87b0caf92943f427f2a81b233d6e09a.png)http://i5.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/c18099419644601f9f76acd0ce9a91ab.png (http://i5.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/c18099419644601f9f76acd0ce9a91ab.png)http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/7550ebcc9320012411f514ec0d13ab52.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/7550ebcc9320012411f514ec0d13ab52.png)http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/41ffe00445ba2cfc859b5e3830951c72.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/41ffe00445ba2cfc859b5e3830951c72.png)http://i1.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/c4527753b36515bca40bca33566f4870.png (http://i1.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/c4527753b36515bca40bca33566f4870.png)http://i1.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/5124fb743e58e42fed1b21888bc77aa7.png (http://i1.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/5124fb743e58e42fed1b21888bc77aa7.png)http://i1.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/796e3acc98a5b8156d44fa09b02ca32f.png (http://i1.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/796e3acc98a5b8156d44fa09b02ca32f.png)http://i5.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/dc3ca4b18f98ed4d296f049f9c1f62a6.png (http://i5.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/dc3ca4b18f98ed4d296f049f9c1f62a6.png)http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/a416bbb75e3a4303fb92853ed2675d09.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/a416bbb75e3a4303fb92853ed2675d09.png)http://i5.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/4357fb87327a0eb1c4a171414077a68c.png (http://i5.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/4357fb87327a0eb1c4a171414077a68c.png)http://i6.imageban.ru/thumbs/2016.02.13/619b53fab2f6886f232a5bfd6e9b072b.png (http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2016/02/13/619b53fab2f6886f232a5bfd6e9b072b.png)

[sat4all]

Thanks for the new release.
With 0.90.9 + Kodi Dsplayer i'm getting black screen when playing (sd, 720p or cropped 1080p) > UHD while 1080p & UHD > UHD is fine.
switching to D3D11 presentation fix the problem but unfortunetly my IGPU struggle with D3D11.
none of the above problems occures with MPC-HC X64.
X86 bug?

[Patrik G]

Problem with massive CPU usage when playing 4K videos on a 1080P Display

when playing 4K videos GPU usage is non existent while the CPU usage for my i7 2600K @ 4.6Ghz works at 80%!
im playing these 4K files from 1080P res in windows.
i havev tried different settings to see if the usage can move over from the CPU to the GPU but its the same with any setting i use.

this only happends when i play 4K videos
playing 1080P material GPU usage is back to normal around 80% (GTX 780) and CPU usage almost 0

any suggestions on how to force the GPU to take care of these 4K videos?
even a 4.6Ghz CPU isnt able to render all frames here
stutters like crazy.

[Thunderbolt8]

are these HEVC video files?

[Patrik G]

are these HEVC video files?

some of them but its the same with all 4K videos

its the 4K demos from here
http://demo-uhd3d.com/

it must be the downscaling to 1080P that screws it up ?

[James Freeman]

@Patrik G

HEVC is decoded by the CPU alone by LAV Video decoder if your GPU does not support HEVC decoding.
Next gen video cards which will be able to off-load the decoding to the GPUs VPU (video processing unit), like current GPUs doing with x264.

The only GPU of current gen that able to decode HEVC is Nvidia GTX960, and yes, the CPU and GPU remain around 0% because the VPU completely takes the full load.

* VPU is a separate processor on the GPU that used solely to decode video. Like on a hardware Bluray Player.

[Patrik G]

The only GPU of current gen that able to decode HEVC is Nvidia GTX960,

ok thanks
i will get a 960 or 970 next week
GTX 780 is starting to getting old it seems.

if someone wants to buy 2 watercooled GTX780s just let me know :)