madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Alexkral]

Sorry, I had completely forgotten about these things since I'm not very interested in playing lately. I can definitely play at 4k@60hz with a custom EDID override.
Is there any interest in working on supporting side-by-side/top-bottom/field-sequential/frame-sequential 3D? (I have mostly seen the first two so far)
That should be pretty trivial for SBS/OU, but given the nonsense against 3D and the endless development of tone mapping I don't think you can expect it.

[toki]

someone, please tell me there's a way to fix stutter on panning shots with 4k content

[nevcairiel]

This is really good news! Now to decide if I should install the fast ring...

It'll very likely be backported to the next Cumulative Update. I wouldn't bother going to an insider version for a bugfix. It'll result in far more issues in the longrun.

[SamuriHL]

^^^^ this. It's going to be October before that build is official. That's a LOT of bug fixing between now and then to wade through just for one fix. I can't wait to get my 2070 back on Monday. That took forever.

[XTrojan]

Quick question, I been reading around that letting MadVR handle HDR is better than using "passthrough HDR". Is this true, and if it is how do I really start, is expensive HDR calibration needed?

[svengun]

This is really good news! Now to decide if I should install the fast ring...

Fast ring isn't always 'open to join' You can apply but can take a while...

[chros]

Quick question, I been reading around that letting MadVR handle HDR is better than using "passthrough HDR". Is this true, and if it is how do I really start, is expensive HDR calibration needed?
If you have HDR capable TV I'd go for "just" passthrough. But just try out on yours. No, no calibration/profiling is required although it's preferred :)

[huhn]

Fast ring isn't always 'open to join' You can apply but can take a while...

if it is 18922 it already has installation files so no wait what so ever.

[XTrojan]

cool, thx for the info and linking me to your options thread. My searches didn't bring it up.

What leaves me wondering/confused: Nvidia's control panel shows, that (madVR) set my display to 60Hz (not 23,xxx) and mpc-hc shows with STRG+J that my display runs at 100Hz and everything is synced to 49,xxx
But atleast it works ^^

It's kinda sad to me that 3D is dying but it is how it is.
Though 3D might not be completely dead because you can watch 3D with VR headsets and use madVR for that.
Though only mvc or side-by-side would work. Other 3D formats (like the ones I mentioned) wouldn't work with madVR, yet.

3D dying was obvious ever since it was said that UHD BD won't support 3D. Today you gotta choose between HDR 4k picture quality (UHD BD) or 3D depth (Normal BD with 3D).

The death of 3D was the issue of setting it up, it practically was dead on arrival, the 3D BD players being horrible didn't help either. Even today you got issues like 3D subtitle depth.

I would hoped for enhanced 3D with more realistic depth that doesn't create those retarded "four-eye" scenarios and much more ease of use, but it never happened.

What's even worse is 3D settings for most TVs are horrendous, many TVs force you to keep interpolation on when 3D is on.
The technology is just badly adapted, it's nowhere near Theater 3D or IMAX 3D Theater for that matter.

[tp4tissue]

Also, 8bit RGB 2160p60 is better quality than 12 bit YCbCr 4:2:2. This is not true if watching via a bluray player but it is when using madVR. I use 8bit RGB 2160p60 most of the time, over HDMI 2.0, on a LG C7 and now a C9.

HDMI 2.1 allows RGB 2160p120, which I am very much looking forward to when a GPU with HDMI 2.1 comes out. :D


How is 10 bit achieved on these panels, is it through a high precision voltage controller or frc/ spatial dithering ?

Unless it's the former, I don't think 10bit will ever be better, because madvr already essentially does the latter.

[huhn]

you can't beat 8+FRC with 8 bit alone if the processing isn't flawed but it's generally flawed.

10 bit dithered feed into 8 frc should show less noise.

this get's complicated with YCbCr and RGB.
even YcbCr 4:2:2 with BD player have a major problem and it should be dithered to 12 bit.

[JarrettH]

Did the May major update remove Direct3d 9? Since updating, my black levels are severely raised. I accidentally solved this by switching presentation to Direct3d 11. This is on a 730 GT with the 399.24 driver.

[cork_OS]

Quote (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/3053602-madvr-envy-anticipation-thread-15.html#post58191562) from AVSforum:
My apologies for the lack of information recently. FYI, I've been working on the Envy 24/7 for several months now, with good progress. I'm getting near to having a beta unit ready. It will be shown behind closed doors to key companies and people only (for now). Depending on how things go I hope to be able to start releasing more detailed info publicly soon...

[VAMET]

Dear nevcairiel

Dear Friends

I own Lenovo Ideapad 320 i3-7100u with iGPU Intel 620 and GPU GeForce 940MX. I have tried to watch .mkv remux of Gladiator 2160p 23.976 HDR 10bit, but it's not smooth. Rendering is below 41.71ms, but there are lots of dropped frames. Notebook is conntected to my monitor LG 27UK600-W 4K HDR via HDMI cables via Onkyo TX-NR686 (HDMI 2.0b HDCP 2.2).

MPC-HC 1.8.6, madVR 0.92.17, LAV Filters 0.74.1

NVIDIA Control Panel set to maximum performance of 940MX, Windows 10 1809 also 940MX.
LAV Filters - Video Decoder - D3D11 and 940MX

This notebook hardware is to weak to have no frame drops or I am doing something wrong?

Thank you in advance for your help and replies.

Sincerely

With DXVA2 Native or D3D11 Native decoding, and low madVR settings, you can play stuff surprisingly well on NUCs. So yeah, it should be mostly fine. Just don't expect too much from madVR, since the GPU is weak.

Above posts for reminder only. I would like to ask about Fullscreen Exclusive Mode, I mean when I enable it, I have only Multichannel not Bitstreaming. In Windowed Mode I have Bitstreaming without any problems DTS:X, Dolby Atmos etc. I use Windows 10 1809.

Are there any workaround to have FSE Mode and Bitstreaming?

Thank you in advance for your help and support.

Sincerely

[Charky]

AFAIK these two settings (how the sound is processed and how the picture is displayed) should be completely unrelated...

[VAMET]

Dear Charky

Yes, I was also confused, but I didn't change any other settings, just Fullscreen/Windowed and I have Multichanel PCM/Bitstreaming. Maybe it's something related with Windows 10 and Fullscreen Exclusive?

Sincerely

[ryrynz]

Don't waste your time, just use Windowed mode.

[WontonNoodle]

MS just pushed out build 18922 on fast-ring, and banding errors are gone (on my rig), without having to use the workaround.

What is the work around?

[VAMET]

Dear ryrynz

Don't waste your time, just use Windowed mode.

...but I will lose my 10 bit in Windowed Mode.

Sincerely

[oldpainlesskodi]

What is the work around?

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1877096&postcount=400

[Asmodian]

...but I will lose my 10 bit in Windowed Mode.

Windowed Fullscreen allows 10 bit.

[Michael2907]

Hi,

Wäre can i find the latest Beta of madvr?

Gesendet von meinem SM-N960F mit Tapatalk

[huhn]

here: http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure86.zip

[tp4tissue]

here: http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure86.zip

Is this the current most accurate detecting version ?

And can someone explain the brightness settings in detail ?

[alps006]

I have tried most of madVR beta versions, and eventually went back to official version 17 as it is the best version that gives me very good results.

[madjock]

@tp4tissue

Well it is the latest one, they are still working out the quirks, best bet is to read the forum that these are on, but I for one have no idea on the majority of the settings and use what the testers use. As for what they all do, no idea, and I think a lot will be hidden on a final build, its all gone quiet at the moment as madshi works on the ENVY by the looks of it.

@alps006

If you are talking about HDR to SDR then I think you will be mistaken as they have put a lot of work into the later test builds, but if you are happy then who can argue.

[VAMET]

Dear Friends

I have found a problem, why there is no Bitstreaming just Multichannel PCM. It was not a problem with Fullscreen Exclusive Mode/Fullscreen Windowed Mode. The problem is related with madVR 0.92.17 with display modes. If I have empty field "list all display modes madVR may switch to:" and I play any movie I have got DTS:X, Dolby Atmos etc., but when I enter for example: 2160p23, 1080p23 etc. and when I launch movie file and there is a change from for example: 2160p30 to 2160p23 or 1080p60 to 2160p23, I have got Multichannel PCM instead of Bitstreaming.

It's always during changing of display modes. There are two audio devices in hardware of Lenovo Ideapad 320: Intel HD Audio (HDMI to AV Received up to 7.1 with Dolby Atmos) and Realtek HD Audio (for notebook speakers only Stereo 2.0). After display change is made by madVR, something is going wrong, because LAV Audio lists Realtek HD Audio, but sound is going thru AV Receiver not notebook speakers. When I disable Relatek HD Audio in Windows Hardware Manager and leave only Intel HD Audio and then I play movie, LAV Audio shows errors and there is no sound only video. When I disable display modes in madVR by not entering any values, there is no problem at all.

I don't have idea, why this is happen and if the problem is with audio hardware Intel HD or Relatek HD or madVR, LAV Audio or other not mentioned.

Do you have any idea, what is the problem and how to solve it? Of course I can manualy change to 2160p23 and then play movies which are 23.976, but I would like to use madVR's display modes.

Sincerely

[sneaker_ger]

@VAMET
I wonder if this is similar to the problem here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1869253#post1869253)? (See post #480 and clsid's answer post #481)

[huhn]

sounds like yet another optimus issue.

it may switch the GPU to the nvidia in the FSE process and so losing the intel HDMI device in the process stopping bitstreaming.

if you have win 10 go to display settings -> graphics settings -classic app (it's a program windows...) -> browse add mpc-hc64.exe -> set it to power saving intel HD try again.

[VAMET]

Dear Friends

@VAMET
I wonder if this is similar to the problem here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1869253#post1869253)? (See post #480 and clsid's answer post #481)

sounds like yet another optimus issue.

it may switch the GPU to the nvidia in the FSE process and so losing the intel HDMI device in the process stopping bitstreaming.

if you have win 10 go to display settings -> graphics settings -classic app (it's a program windows...) -> browse add mpc-hc64.exe -> set it to power saving intel HD try again.

I will try your both solutions later (c.a. 8 hours from now), when I back from work to home. I will let you know about results.

Sincerely

[VAMET]

Dear Friends

I have tried:

1. sneaker_ger solution - doesn't work
2. huhn solution - doesn't work
3. I have uninstalled NVIDIA Drivers for GTX 940MX - doesn't work
4. I have disabled discrete GPU (GTX 940MX) in BIOS - doesn't work
5. I have installed Kodi and... - doesn't work, but when during playback I toggle other audio track the bitstreaming is working for this new track, and when I back to the first track for example DTS:X or Dolby Atmos it's also working
6. I have tried the same in MPC-HC, change to other track during playback, but it doesn't work

I have no more ideas, only manualy changing to 2160p23 and then playing movie is working with Bitstreaming.

PS. Sorry for post under post...

Sincerely

[el Filou]

It's an issue with the Intel HDMI: the audio device 'disappears' when the display resyncs (like when changing modes, or powering on/off), so the audio renderer loses the connection. This problem was encountered by MediaPortal users and IIRC unfortunately the workaround was to implement a device-specific fix in the player.
Here is a link to the bug ticket and associated forum thread: https://issues.team-mediaportal.com/browse/MP1-4941
(I don't use Intel HDMI audio with MP so can't tell any more details, sorry)

[alps006]

@madjock, Yes, I do talk about HDR to SDR. I agree with you. They have done extensive efforts to make it more perfect, specially Manni and NeoXP are doing a great job by testing the new builds. But after the build madVRhdrmeasure45, madshi is adding a lot of tweaking options to new test builds that may work for some people but not for others. I eventually gave up and went back to version 0.92.17 which is in turn giving me a good balanced image without too much clipping. My 2 cents...
@alps006 If you are talking about HDR to SDR then I think you will be mistaken as they have put a lot of work into the later test builds, but if you are happy then who can argue.

[nsnhd]

I'm currently using madVRhdrmeasure40 with the MadmeasureHDR Optimizer 3.8.7 from Soulnight.
The lastest versions of madVRhdrmeasure live algo seem too complicated for me, I'm waiting for the final release.

[Charky]

The lastest versions of madVRhdrmeasure live algo seem too complicated for me, I'm waiting for the final release.
Just use Neo-XP's settings. They work just fine :)

[tp4tissue]

Just use Neo-XP's settings. They work just fine :)

Are neoxp's settings for projectors, or is it universal ?

[SamuriHL]

If you're doing HDR->SDR, neoxp's settings are a very good starting point. People are getting beyond excellent results with that build and those settings. If you have an SDR, or low nit, device that's definitely the way to go.

Personally, I use measurement files and I've had excellent results with that. But I'm outputting HDR and setting a target nit level right around the max of my C8 OLED (~750 nits). The idea being that you want madvr to do the tone mapping to compress HDR to fit within your max nit level so that your device doesn't have to do its own tone mapping.

[nsnhd]

People are getting beyond excellent results with that build and those settings.
NeoXP has several builds and settings, could you pls link to that best ones ?Thanks

[tp4tissue]

Does Madvr's dithering work better in 60hz than say 24hz ? How does it work ?

[Asmodian]

madVR does not use temporal dithering so it does not matter what the refresh rate is. That said the dither pattern changes slower if using "change dither for every frame." This is the only aspect of dithering that is impacted by the refresh rate.

I usually have both that and "use colored noise" disabled anyway.

[chros]

Personally, I use measurement files and I've had excellent results with that. But I'm outputting HDR and setting a target nit level right around the max of my C8 OLED (~750 nits). The idea being that you want madvr to do the tone mapping to compress HDR to fit within your max nit level so that your device doesn't have to do its own tone mapping.
Do you still use the TV's own dynamic tonemapping this way? I assume not.

Have you managed to compare the TV's own dynamic tonemapping vs the way you use it now? (I haven't yet, or maybe I did :) )
I'm asking this, because I compared the live ago in SDR mode (OLED light was at the max 100) and the produced image was softer than with hdr passthrough, the latter was way sharper.
(I use the TV in PC mode for getting chroma 4:4:4)

[Warner306]

The softer image would come from poorer EOTF tracking. Were you still doing a gamma conversion with a 2.40 3D LUT? That could make things softer.

The HDR output option should only shave the brightest highlights from every source and eliminate most tone mapping by the display because the source will arrive pre-compressed. That should be very similar to way the TV already works. The BT.2390 roll-off doesn't compress 0-100 nits (the knee point starts higher) when you set the output to 700 nits.

Some have claimed that the C8 and C9 are boosting the brightness of the image at times with dynamic tone mapping. I don't know if that is true or not. If you compressed the source and sent it to the display with dynamic tone mapping enabled, it could also influence the result, but I don't know by how much.

[tp4tissue]

hdr passthrough, the latter was way sharper.


Does the calibration report go up to 700nit ? maybe the tv snipped the bright patch, so the 3dlut is inaccurate.

[SamuriHL]

NeoXP has several builds and settings, could you pls link to that best ones ?Thanks

I don't use them myself. I have my own settings that won't help anyone that I use. His latest build and settings were getting very good results afaik.

[SamuriHL]

Do you still use the TV's own dynamic tonemapping this way? I assume not.

Have you managed to compare the TV's own dynamic tonemapping vs the way you use it now? (I haven't yet, or maybe I did :) )
I'm asking this, because I compared the live ago in SDR mode (OLED light was at the max 100) and the produced image was softer than with hdr passthrough, the latter was way sharper.
(I use the TV in PC mode for getting chroma 4:4:4)

The softer image would come from poorer EOTF tracking. Were you still doing a gamma conversion with a 2.40 3D LUT? That could make things softer.

The HDR output option should only shave the brightest highlights from every source and eliminate most tone mapping by the display because the source will arrive pre-compressed. That should be very similar to way the TV already works. The BT.2390 roll-off doesn't compress 0-100 nits (the knee point starts higher) when you set the output to 700 nits.

Some have claimed that the C8 and C9 are boosting the brightness of the image at times with dynamic tone mapping. I don't know if that is true or not. If you compressed the source and sent it to the display with dynamic tone mapping enabled, it could also influence the result, but I don't know by how much.

It does increase the brightness at times. I don't particularly mind even if it's technically not correct. I keep dynamic tone mapping on because in theory it should do LESS tone mapping given that madvr has already done the tone mapping before sending it. I'm quite impressed with the quality of the output.

[mclingo]

thought i'd see what all the fuss was about with HDR tone mapping, but just decided to try the current .17 for now, however before I try anything I check everything is working properly, 3D doesnt work with this version properly, it plays but plays only in top left hand corner all squashed up. If I drop back to v0.92.14 its fine so defo an issue with this version. (v0.92.17).

I havent been reading for a while so i'm a bit behind, whats with this new beta version, seems to be loads missing from it or is MADVR now an installer package?


http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure86.zip

[Warner306]

I managed to document most of the features in the current betas over the past year in the link in my signature. If you start at the HDR section in the guide, there is plenty of information there.

I don't think 3D playback has been touched, so I don't why you would be having issues. All the work went into HDR playback.

You can install that build by simply overwriting the existing installation files with the few files provided.

[mclingo]

so you just copy those few files over the top of the current .17 version, isnt there a full beta version with all the files?

[Asmodian]

No, these are just test builds, not really beta versions.

[mambans]

Hello, I could use some help regarding HDR and 10bit.

1. When I try to play HDR, only Madvr OSD is in HDR (and 10bit). https://i.imgur.com/T6p8cBG.jpg

2. When playing HDR movie I cant enter fullscreen exclusive.

Settings: https://imgur.com/a/zc1xLAB