madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

@steakhutzeee and @strumf666, please ask LAV questions in the LAV thread, not here. Your questions are widely out of topic here.

[VictorLS]

the image is very vivid in general your screen is just washed out.
Agree and I want correct it.
1-16 are NOT suppose to blink.
While playing HV001T01.EVO I've set so by increasing brightness a little - used 16-235 in madVR because with 0-255 I have to increase brightness very much. But nothing changed with trees "in fire".
Did someone try to play Samsung_HDR_Wonderland.ts? May provide screenshot as me?
Samsung_HDR_Wonderland_EVR.png (2,3MB) http://rgho.st/7ZJY5zrxK

[strumf666]

@steakhutzeee and @strumf666, please ask LAV questions in the LAV thread, not here. Your questions are widely out of topic here.
Apologies, I was sure I am posting in the LAV thread, but apparently not.

[sheppaul]

Some of you guys didn't like the name "NG1". I'm open for other suggestions. Please feel free to post your ideas. If there's no suggestion that jumps out at me, I'll probably stick with "NG1", though.

Why not "madshi1, madshi2"? :)

[Asmodian]

There will be several quality/speed levels. NG1 "low" quality will probably have a similar speed to Jinc AR*) or super-xbr*). Or at least that's what I'm aiming at. I still need to test how much I can downscale the algorithm before quality breaks down completely. NG1 "high" quality (which both teasers are made with) will probably have a similar speed to NNEDI3-64*).

Wow very impressive performance targets! I am looking forward to it, like everyone else here. :)

[VictorLS]

Why not "madshi1, madshi2"? :)
Not bad, if sort by timeso but, logically, if sort by quality so must be spaces between methods - may be in the future it will be necessary.

[Betroz]

What about MadFX.

[ryrynz]

MNEDI, MEDI, NGEDI or perhaps just Mad upscale/r

~64 NNEDI3 64 neurons worth of hogging isn't very demanding. I'd totally be up for further improvements if possible with double this requirement.

[sauma144]

Some of you guys didn't like the name "NG1". I'm open for other suggestions. Please feel free to post your ideas. If there's no suggestion that jumps out at me, I'll probably stick with "NG1", though.

I'm listening to your comments, but I'll reply to all old and new posts only after the new version is released.

Keep it simple!

- mad2X
- madDoubler
- madScale
- madSR

[huhn]

Agree and I want correct it.
it is the creators intent there is nothing to correct.
they just what to show of DCI p3 colors at least this is my guess i wasn't there when it was filmed.
While playing HV001T01.EVO I've set so by increasing brightness a little - used 16-235 in madVR because with 0-255 I have to increase brightness very much. But nothing changed with trees "in fire".
Did someone try to play Samsung_HDR_Wonderland.ts? May provide screenshot as me?
Samsung_HDR_Wonderland_EVR.png (2,3MB) http://rgho.st/7ZJY5zrxK

https://abload.de/img/samsung_hdr_wonderlanfds8v.png

EVR can't handle BT2020 it is using BT709 which results in wrong colors.

[Sunset1982]

madScale NG :)

[VictorLS]

huhn
Many thanks for explanation and screenshot. Now I am sure my system has well settings.

[leeperry]

madScale / über-madScale

[SmallGoD]

madVR Direct3D11 + Nvidea FastSync = fullscreen crash.
MPC BE 1.5.0 (build 2101) beta (x64)

[DigitalLF]

How about Mad1 for the algorithm?

[pirlouy]

NG is like HD: already has-been. :D
Abbreviation can be a solution, but NNEDI is unpronounceable therefore bad choice. :/
GL finding an original name. Double, db, upscaling or up should be part of the name though. MDU (Madshi Double Upscaling) ?

[madshi]

Should have mentioned: In a future version (not the first) NG1 will probably also be able to directly triple or quadruple the resolution in one step. So anything with "2x" or "double/ing" in the name probably doesn't make too much sense.

[sauma144]

Should have mentioned: In a future version (not the first) NG1 will probably also be able to directly triple or quadruple the resolution in one step. So anything with "2x" or "double/ing" in the name probably doesn't make too much sense.

Why not madX, madXX or madXXX? :D

[MS-DOS]

madshi
madVS (video scaler) or could as well be just madVR, as madVR's own high quality algorithm. Not a fan of loud fancy names, personally.

[petran79]

Direct3D11 + Nvidea FastSync = fullscreen crash.

MPC BE has no such issue, in contrast to Potplayer

[ashlar42]

I think madScaler/madScale/madScaleNG would be good names.

[aufkrawall]

If it's as good as the pictures suggest, it would be good for any upscaling.
But since it's madshi's own intellectual property, don't expect it to appear outside of madVR.

[YxP]

There will be several quality/speed levels. NG1 "low" quality will probably have a similar speed to Jinc AR*) or super-xbr*). Or at least that's what I'm aiming at. I still need to test how much I can downscale the algorithm before quality breaks down completely. NG1 "high" quality (which both teasers are made with) will probably have a similar speed to NNEDI3-64*).

Bang for the buck - ratio is very promising! Definitely worthy of calling it next generation, which I think you should keep. Going too "mad" with the name (like many suggestions ITT) reminds me for some reason of those bands who release an album that's named after the band itself. NG1 or mNG1.

[SmallGoD]

MPC BE has no such issue, in contrast to Potplayer

I use MPC BE 1.5.0 (build 2101) beta (x64)

[bwo_j]

madU

where it could have stand for 1 official name while having many other meaningful long forms/wordplay. :)

[JarrettH]

What ever you call it, make sure it's searchable by keyword in this forum :p

[StinDaWg]

I've been out of the loop for awhile. Is there still a significant performance advantage with AMD vs. Nvidia? Looking at getting either an rx480 or gtx 1060.

And a question for madshi... will NG1 "low quality" still have better quality than NNEDI3? If so, I might not need a more powerful card after all.

[huhn]

the first test showed that AMD isn't faster for madVR at the moment.

just wait for the release of NG1 i'm pretty sure you will get some numbers.

and we don't know if it is directcompute, openCL, shaders or something different. this may play a huge role on this topic too.

[Sunset1982]

I've been out of the loop for awhile. Is there still a significant performance advantage with AMD vs. Nvidia? Looking at getting either an rx480 or gtx 1060.



I've tested a lot with these two cards. They are more or less equal in performance. The 1060 is a bit more powerefficient, so you have to use less energy for same perfomance.

I made my decision to go with the rx480 because I get near perfect 23,976 out of the box without a custom resolution and I have flawless 3D with no need of setting it up in Windows/drivers.

[steakhutzeee]

With movie i'm looking now i'm experiencing a little issue with madvr.

In the black bar of the movies i can see a little of "movement" like orizontal bars moving up and down inside the black. Disabling madvr solved the problem. Any idea what's the setting i've to tweak?

[huhn]

make a screen please

[steakhutzeee]

It's difficult because it does't show up in screenshot. It's like when you put a phone next the monitor and the interference causes the monitor move a bit. Don't know how to explain...

[Klownicle]

Can someone help me better understand the current functionality of HDR on computers at this time, obviously specifically with madVR as well.

When I play an HDR movie, I configure madVR to send HDR directly to the TV as I would expect since I have an HDR capable environment. I've tried things that said online to set the calibration in madVR to 702 or 2020 but that made no visible difference. I've tried configuring my desktop to output 4:2:2 @ 24hz @ 10bit (and 12bit). I can't seem to get 4:4:4 at 10bit on the Windows desktop but I believe I read this isn't possible with our consumer graphics cards? I've also set the rendering at DX11 in madVR as I read that consumer cards akin to the sentence prior to this can't output 4:4:4 at 10bit but can in exclusive mode. The TV input for the PC is set to UHD Color. I've also tried Standard/Movie to see if that made a difference in how the TV understands it. I've also set madVR to change resolution for 2160p24, 2160p25 respectively.

When I take the said MKV files and play them directly on the K8500 Samsung Player, the TV detects it as an HDR video as mentioned above and looks fine.

The only way I can get the HDR videos on the PC to look proper is using the HDR to SDR functionality of madVR. As far as I can tell when playing on the K8500, the result is the same within reason.

I have the KS8000 Samsung that supports HDR, currently when I play an HDR movie from my Samsung K8500 UHD Blu-ray player the TV reports "An HDR Video is Playing." I never see this on the TV when using the PC. The Bluray HDMI input has the UHD Color on as well to get it to detect the HDR video. I have a SR5010 Marantz Receiver that supports all the latest gizmos (2.0a/2.2/4k). And topping off with a 970GTX (I've tried a 1070GTX as well).

Now I tried the 1070GTX as I read that the 970GTX doesn't support HDMI 2.0a which introduced support for HDR data. However when I tried the 1070GTX I noticed no differences except being able to decode HEVC (as expected).

I've tried hooking directly up to the TV from the PC and the results are the same.

Is the answer as simple as madVR can't send the HDR data yet. I mean I do see something about that when selecting that option, but it states I need to manually turn it on? So I'm not sure what that is. The tv has an HDR+ mode but I haven't fiddled with that. I believe HDR+ is for simulating an HDR effect with standard content. As it stands when sending HDR to the TV from the PC, the colors are off (drab and washed out along with very grainy) unless I use HDR to SDR in madVR.

Thanks for any insight!

[clsid]

Forwarding the HDR metadata isn't working yet, due to a lack of a generic API.

[Klownicle]

Forwarding the HDR metadata isn't working yet, due to a lack of a generic API.

So its as simple as that, HDR to SDR is the only way to have proper color right now?

Will I NEED a 2.0a video card for sure when it does get implemented? Seems a shame to upgrade from a 970GTX to a 1070GTX, those cards aren't cheap!

[Asmodian]

It's difficult because it does't show up in screenshot. It's like when you put a phone next the monitor and the interference causes the monitor move a bit. Don't know how to explain...

Do you have a plasma display?

Try turning off the dithering option "change dither for every frame", this will keep them from moving at least. Another option is calibrating or dropping brightness or contrast on your TV.

[nevcairiel]

Will I NEED a 2.0a video card for sure when it does get implemented? Seems a shame to upgrade from a 970GTX to a 1070GTX, those cards aren't cheap!

Presumably it works with a 900 series card as well, but 4K support is quite limited without full HDMI 2.0, so if thats your goal you should probably upgrade.

[kolak]

So its as simple as that, HDR to SDR is the only way to have proper color right now?

Will I NEED a 2.0a video card for sure when it does get implemented? Seems a shame to upgrade from a 970GTX to a 1070GTX, those cards aren't cheap!

Problem is that manufactures decided that HDR TVs have no button to turn on HDR. TV switches to this mode automatically only under certain conditions. You either have to encode files with correct headers and play in TV or you need HDR singling on HDMI output.
There is this:

https://youtu.be/hOsDRmbDdgE

[VictorLS]

Klownicle
Tell me, please, do you see visual differencies on your TV between picture from PC with HDR to SDR in madVR and Samsung K8500 UHD Blu-ray player except "An HDR Video is Playing" in second case of course?
Can you try (or did you tried) Samsung_HDR_Wonderland.ts - link in in two last strings of http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1785540#post1785540 ?
How can you describe picture on your TV in comparsion of following two screenshots?
Samsung_HDR_Wonderland.png (3,2MB) http://rgho.st/6YhK6hTpN
Samsung_HDR_Wonderland_EVR.png (2,3MB) http://rgho.st/7ZJY5zrxK
kolak
Thanks.

[CarlosCaco]

Should have mentioned: In a future version (not the first) NG1 will probably also be able to directly triple or quadruple the resolution in one step. So anything with "2x" or "double/ing" in the name probably doesn't make too much sense.



I like the NG1 name... what I suggest is in the same line, just add upscale to the middle.. like Next Upscale Generation 1 so we can pronounce NUG 1 or only NUG

Or more complex Next Generation Resolution Upscale (NEGERU)

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[nautilus7]

NGS: Next Generation Scaler.

[HillieSan]

NGS: Next Generation Scaler.

Why Next Generation? It will be an improvement, not a next generation thing. It would suggest to name it after the creator. If the scaler is aiming at 4K then I would suggest something like madshi4K1 or madScaler4K1 or simpler mad4K1. In a few years we might get 8K with new possibilities and a new madScaler8K1 scaler. Just a thought.

[sauma144]

+1 for a pronounceable name like NEGERU (Neeedjeeeruuu)

[CarlosCaco]

+1 for a pronounceable name like NEGERU (Neeedjeeeruuu)



Sounds cool like an African word


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[aufkrawall]

Why Next Generation? It will be an improvement, not a next generation thing.
Judging by the screenshots madshi showed, I'd call it next gen for a scaler with realtime-performance.
NG1 is fine with me.

[Sunset1982]

I like MadNGU (Madshi Next Generation Upscaler)

[madshi]

Teaser Part III.

I've seen some people complain that NG1 might be sharpening the image, or be a tad "too sharp". Please note that NG1 does not have any artificial sharpening logic in it. All it does is make an educated guess at what the original hires image ("groundtruth") might have been. But please compare for yourself. Here's a test from the Mononoke Blu-Ray, where we have the original hires image, so we can compare how near the various upscaling algorithms come to the groundtruth.

For your interest, I've downscaled the image *without* Anti-Ringing and in gamma light, because that's what movie studios usually do. NG1 is currently optimized for that situation, so we get the best results with actual DVD and Blu-Ray content.

groundtruth (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.org.hires.png) -- | -- downscaled to 50% using Catmull-Rom (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.org.lores.png)

madVR:

Jinc AR (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.jinc.png) -- | -- super-xbr 100 (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.superxbr.png) -- | -- NNEDI3 256 taps (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.nnedi3.png) -- | -- NNEDI3 256 taps + SuperRes 4 (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.nnedi3+sr.png) -- | -- NG1 (near final) (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.ng1.png) -- | -- waifu2x (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.waifu2x.png)

For comparison purposes, here are the results with the latest MPDN version:

MPDN NNEDI3 256 taps + SuperRes (strength 1.0, 10 passes) (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.mpdn-sr.png) -- | -- MPDN NNEDI3 256 taps + SSSR (sharp, 2 passes) (http://madshi.net/madVR/NG1/mononoke.mpdn-sssr.png)

Also have a look at how the various algos handle the top and bottom letterbox edges.

[James Freeman]

Unbelievable.
Well done!

The TV manufacturers are soiling their pants now, I'm 100% sure they closely watching your thread madshi.
I don't know what you do in real life, but you are missing millions in salary if you are not in the industry.

[Sunset1982]

Unbelievable...

The other algos look like crap. Can't see a difference between NG1 and Waifu2!

Now I hope it is not to performance hungry, so my rx480 can handle it.


Well done Madshi! You are the greatest!!

[Warner306]

How do lower levels of NG1 compare to super-xbr and NNEDI3? There is no way I can run 64 neurons. Close but not 64 neurons.