madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Pat357]

Of course the 2nd option is better !
Luma is far more important in the way we see images/movies than chroma.
So the most of your GPU-power you have available should be spend on Image doubling/resizing/processing and the rest you can use for the not-so-important chroma doubling/resizing.
I think it's a basic fact that most of us agree upon, that your luma (image) algorithm should always superior compared to your algorithm for chroma doubling/resizing.
(Or at least the same)
This is not the case in your first example, but for your second it is the case.

If your sources are of good quality, I would also try NGU Sharp for image doubling instead of NGU AA, it should look better and much sharper. Try and see ! ;-)
NGU AA is really perfect for heavy aliased sources or sources encoded on to low bit-rate.
For chroma you can choose the algorithm depending on how much resources (=GPU-power) you have left after first ensuring that the luma (image)-processing has been optimised.
I use Bicubic 60 AR, Lanczos AR, Jinc AR and very rare NGU-AA low for chroma.
For Image doubling I have different NGU algo's, depending on the source (quality,fps,resolution,..)

[cork_OS]

What is better?

chroma NGU AA / image Lanczos upscaling or chroma Lanczos / NGU AA doubling
It's so boring to see such questions again and again.
If you didn't see the difference, ANY settings are equal for you.

[Tobiwan]

Thank you Pat357 for the very helpful information! :)

[arrgh]

"There are 3 possible HTPC level configurations, when using madVR:

(1) Display wants 0-255. GPU and madVR are consequently also both set to 0-255.

This is the most recommended setup because it doesn't (shouldn't) have any banding problems, and still has all video, desktop and games with correct black/white levels. In this case test patterns need to have black at 0,0,0, obviously.
...
"

this Statement was made my madshi somwhere in the Forums...
I have to admit that I'm strugling somewhat with the "patterns need to have black at 0,0,0"-part...
I tried to dodge this by using madTPG with HCFR via LAN, in the hope that they would use automatically the correct patterns, but failed up to now to pass the Firewalls... :confused:

Therefore my question : are these "special" Patterns, if yes, are they available on the net, so one could use them with MPC-BE/madVR manually?

the scond part of the question : if the calibration is done like this than it aplies only to the MPC-BE/madVR-chain, correct? If one changes to life-TV (e.g. Windows Media Center) than the calibration is broken since Windows Players don't use 3rd-party rederers, correct? That aplies also to the newest Version of Win10x64, with all the new HDR capabilities?

Thanks for any hint :thanks:

[huhn]

windows is outputting 0-255 to the driver.
there are so many test pattern for the black level i don't even know where to start.

maybe this 0 is black on this test pattern: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

or this 16 is black on this test pattern: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html

is not that complicated at all it mostly comes down to your TV setting and if it is able to to use full range RGB or not.

[Knight77]

If you don't need HDR and everything else is working, don't update.

Well I need HDR, but with the current configuration it works: it passthrough to my TV that actually automatically switch from Cinema to HDR.

[Mark Regalo]

madVR's output goes blank yet the audio plays fine when resuming a paused video after wakeup from hibernation. MPC Nightly, LAV Filters, Windows 10, GTX 670.

Also, when the screen is set to turn off after x minutes and a player is paused, I hear a beep from the motherboard and the system has to be restarted.

[huhn]

about the PC restarting issue.

have a look at the event viewer there should be an entry with the process that is making the problem (which is unlikely to be madVR)

[oddball]

HDR no worky.

Creators update set to HDR mode (Check).
LG OLED B6 (4K/UHD) shows HDR top right corner(Check).
MadVR set to DX11 fullscreen exclusive, 10bit or higher, HDR passthru, Send HDR metadata ticked and Win10 API ticked (also tried Nvidia)(Check).
AMD RX480 with latest drivers set to 4:2:2 YCbCr 10bit or 12bit (Check).
Using MPC-BE with LAV filters DirectX Copyback (Also tried DirectX Native and none).

Iimage is washed out as always. Only Win10 Film and TV player plays it correctly with HDR 'POP'.

I don't know what else to try.

[huhn]

* added support for sending HDR metadata via win10 (not tested yet)

i guess it is still waiting time for AMD/win 10 API user.

[mrmojo666]

i guess it is still waiting time for AMD/win 10 API user.

sorry for asking

i thought this forum is the place to report bugs, isn't it ? there is another place for reporting?

http://forum.doom9.net/showthread.php?p=1805987#post1805987

thanks

[cork_OS]

I've seen this image several years ago:
http://i.imgur.com/jL2AeSE.png

Seems it's time to make something similar with current madVR algorithms, so I've tried to create a bunch of presets which I would use with different videocards:
Preset Chroma upscale Image upscale Image downscale Dithering Smooth Motion Artifact removal
Low (def.) Bicubic60 Lanczos3* Bicubic150 Ordered Dithering No No
Normal sxbr100-125 NGU AA/std (low)** Bicubic150 Ordered Dithering Yes Debanding
Above Normal NGU AA (low) NGU AA/std (medium) Bicubic150 Error Diffusion Yes Debanding
High NGU AA (med) NGU AA/std (high) SSIM1D Error Diffusion Yes Debanding, Deringing
Extreme Reconstruction NGU AA/std (very high) SSIM2D Error Diffusion Yes Debanding, Deringing

* - AR is recommended for sharp scalers like Lanczos, although it may be enabled everywhere if there are some performance room;
** - there are several alternatives like sxbr100-125, Jinc AR.
Some notes:
- madVR settings below Lowest (f.e. with DXVA or Bilinear scaling) is nonsense, you should use another render instead (like EVR);
- FSE mode is very capricious, in my opinion it should be disabled by default (until you have 10+ bit display);
- rendering time must be somewhat less than frame time, in case of SVP - less than vsync time;
- as has been repeatedly stated, image/luma upscaling settings is much more important than chroma;
- presets listed above are moderately sharp for my taste. You can raise it with sharpeners or SR (f.e. for low scaling coeff Lanczos4AR+SR1 is faster and sharper than NGU sharp).

Criticism is welcome.

[huhn]

you are not wrong here.

another place is this one: http://bugs.madshi.net/view_all_bug_page.php?project_id=4&dummy=bla/

reported HDR issues are a lot right now i'm pretty sure he is aware of the problem/reports.

the win 10 api isn't tested so people should know it may not work.
nothign wrong with reporting the windows version and test setup of cause.

[Neo-XP]

Criticism is welcome.

Deringing is not recommended by madshi with NGU.
It causes weird artifacts around the edges when used with this algo.

[Asmodian]

Yes, the reduce ringing artifact removal option should definitely not be enabled by default when using NGU.

[mrmojo666]

you are not wrong here.

another place is this one: http://bugs.madshi.net/view_all_bug_page.php?project_id=4&dummy=bla/

reported HDR issues are a lot right now i'm pretty sure he is aware of the problem/reports.

the win 10 api isn't tested so people should know it may not work.
nothign wrong with reporting the windows version and test setup of cause.

thank you !

i didn't know that is is possible to report myself issues on bugtracker ;) cool i'll try to report there in the weekend

[nevcairiel]

Criticism is welcome.

Some points:
- Smooth Motion is IMHO not a quality related setting and should be activated when you need/want it, not generally always, and not as part of a quality preset.
- Reconstruction Chroma is a bit peculiar sometimes. It can look great, but it can also look terrible. Its not something I would advise without special notice.
- IMHO Error Diffusion dithering is usually just a waste of power, and it can cost quite a lot, even more so with Smooth Motion, usually better to spend the GPU power elsewhere

[Ver Greeneyes]

Deringing is not recommended by madshi with NGU.

Does that include NGU AA? I remember people saying that it actually helps with NGU AA.

[MariaX9]

Anyone knows if i choose "lets madVR decide" in downscaling algo does it use for example SSIM 1D 100 AR or SSIM 1D 100 AR linear light? and should i tick "scale in linear light" on the image downscaling page?

[bcec]

I am seeing choppy playback wit madvr for 4K HEVC content. For instance, for a movie with 23.976fps, my average and max rendering stats are staying under 30ms, but my decoder/upload/render queues are not filling, resulting in a very choppy playback and constant dropped frames. I have a 980TI coupled with an i7 and 16GB ram.

Besides 4K HEVC problem, regular bluray 1080->2160 upscaling with NNEDI364 is running butter smooth on my ring. Any ideas/tips/tricks to get the queues fill?

[huhn]

you need a hardware decoder to decode high bitrate HEVC with current hardware and the 980 TI doesn't have a hardware HEVC decoder it is using a slow hybrid decoder for 8 bit and can't handle 10 bit what so ever.

[ryrynz]

Does that include NGU AA? I remember people saying that it actually helps with NGU AA.

'Reduce ringing artifacts' is a must for NGU AA IMO, I've seen no issues with it.

[pose]

+1 for "reduce ringing artifacts" is a must have for any NGU. At least for anime.

[bcec]

you need a hardware decoder to decode high bitrate HEVC with current hardware and the 980 TI doesn't have a hardware HEVC decoder it is using a slow hybrid decoder for 8 bit and can't handle 10 bit what so ever.

Thank you for the reply!

[har3inger]

In cartoon content, dering + NGU can work very well, because everything is solid colors and line art. In live action content, NGU+dering can turn out pretty badly.

[James Freeman]

Question,
Is there color content outside of DCI-P3 on a UHD Bluray?
In other words, are the colors in UHD discs clipped at DCI-P3?

[huhn]

you have to check all UHD BD to know that. and not only that every content with BT 2020.

[YxP]

Does it make any sense that D9 implementation of very high NGU quadrupling uses 46% of my gpu, but D11 goes to 100% with rendering times over 100ms? Identical settings otherwise. Windows 10 with latest updates and GTX1060.

[edit]

Looks like I forgot the power settings stuff people talked about before. Works very nicely with maximum performance setting.

[James Freeman]

you have to check all UHD BD to know that. and not only that every content with BT 2020.

I am sorry, I didn't quite understood your answer.

I'll try to rephrase the question;
The DCI-P3 color space lives inside a BT2020 container on a UHD disc, is it possible that the UHD movie has more color content than the DCP master it was created from?

[nevcairiel]

I'll try to rephrase the question;
The DCI-P3 color space lives inside a BT2020 container on a UHD disc, is it possible that the UHD movie has more color content than the DCP master it was created from?

To make it simple: UHD BD allows for BT.2020, and a Blu-ray would be perfectly within its specification to use the full BT.2020 gamut.

It is absolutely impossible to know if one exists that uses more then DCI-P3 today without checking all of them, and even moreso impossible to judge what the future might bring.

[James Freeman]

Thanks nevcairiel.

Let me rephrase the question yet another time;
How likely the studio enhanced the colors beyond the DCP master on a UHD copy?

[cork_OS]

Thanks for comments.
"Reduce ringing artifacts" is not recommended for NGU S* (although it improves picture in some cases), but it is definitely useful with NGU AA.
Some points:
- Smooth Motion is IMHO not a quality related setting and should be activated when you need/want it, not generally always, and not as part of a quality preset.
- Reconstruction Chroma is a bit peculiar sometimes. It can look great, but it can also look terrible. Its not something I would advise without special notice.
- IMHO Error Diffusion dithering is usually just a waste of power, and it can cost quite a lot, even more so with Smooth Motion, usually better to spend the GPU power elsewhere
1. I tried to put together settings that can impact not only quality, but also performance. Smooth Motion is very cheap, why not use it always?
2. Agreed, personally I use sxbr125 most. Though it's interesting, how madshi's dedicated chroma upscaler will looks like.
3. My GTX 1060 can't handle 720p60->1080 with NGU vhigh, but ED adds only 1-2ms to rendering time, if I'm not mistaken.

[Warner306]

Can somebody tell me if the following settings are possible with a GTX 1060? I am trying to recommend settings to other users.

1080p -> 2160p


Chroma: NGU Sharp (medium)
Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + AR + LL
Image upscaling: Off
Image doubling: NGU Sharp
<-- Luma doubling: medium
<-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Sharp (med))
<-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
<-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
<-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + AR + LL)
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium/High
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Ordered

[Ver Greeneyes]

Can somebody tell me if the following settings are possible with a GTX 1060?
Depends on the frame rate I guess. For my laptop's GTX 1060 3G, I'm using the following:

1080p30 -> 2160p30:
Chroma upscaling: Anti-Alias, low quality
Luma doubling: NGU Anti-Alias high
Chroma doubling: normal (NGU Anti-Alias low)

I can't remember what I was using for 1080p60 -> 2160p60, I had to adjust it for some content with different horizontal and vertical upscaling factors. NGU AA seems to be slower than NGU Sharp/Medium though, so NGU Sharp high for Luma doubling should work.

[Neo-XP]

Can somebody tell me if the following settings are possible with a GTX 1060?

I am sure they are, I do this with my GTX 970 for 1080p30 -> 2160p30:


Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (high)
Downscaling: Bicubic150 AR
Image upscaling: Off
Image doubling: NGU Sharp
<-- Luma doubling: high
<-- Luma quadrupling: disabled
<-- Chroma: normal (Bicubic60 AR)
<-- Doubling: always - supersampling
<-- Quadrupling: disabled
<-- Upscaling algo: Jinc AR
<-- Downscaling algo: use "image downscaling" settings
Upscaling refinement: add grain 3
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium/High
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 + use colored noise + change dither for every frame
Smooth motion: always

[Tobiwan]

Did you guys use deinterlacing? If yes, which one: at madVR or at LAV? There are so many possible ways to deinterlacing and I don't know what I should use...

- madVR deinterlacing
- LAV Deinterlacing Mode
- LAV Hardware/GPU Adaptive HW Deinterlacing
- LAV Software Deinterlacing

[Q-the-STORM]

Did you guys use deinterlacing? If yes, which one: at madVR or at LAV?

use madVR's deinterlacing...

[cork_OS]

There is no especial "madVR deinterlacing", madVR use DXVA instead. LAV Software Deinterlacing (yadif, w3f) has obviously worse quality than any modern HW Deinterlacing.

[Tobiwan]

So madVR's "automatically activate deinterlacing when needed" or LAV's Adaptive HW Deinterlacing with the CUVID? It's hard to understand... what's about the Deinterlacing Mode, what's the effect to madVR if I set it to progressive, aggressive, force? Did I need to activate both, the deinterlacing at madVR and LAV or only one?

Sorry for all the stupid questions, but it's all so complicated.

[huhn]

leave it at default and you should be fine.

[ashlar42]

Criticism is welcome.I think an updated diagram like the one you are working on might be very useful for *a lot of people*. If it was finalized I'd even suggest putting it in the OP, so as to avoid repeated questions.

You might want to cater for different scenarios, though, and provide an idea of what GPU is needed for every "quality level". For scenarios I mean stuff like SD-->1080p, 720p-->1080p, SD-->4K, 720p-->4K, 1080p-->4K.

Unfortunately my HTPC still has a GTX660 on board, so I don't how how useful I could be in testing... or is NGU somehow capable to replace sxbr in scenarios where I use it for doubling?

[oddball]

Since HDR is not working for AMD (always gets the most compatibility issues for some reason) and MadVR takes ages to load a video now I've rolled back for the time being.

[arrgh]

windows is outputting 0-255 to the driver.
there are so many test pattern for the black level i don't even know where to start.
...
or this 16 is black on this test pattern: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html

is not that complicated at all it mostly comes down to your TV setting and if it is able to to use full range RGB or not.

yes, I know the AVS-Disk of course; I have also Ted's Calibration disk and others...
but I was intimidated somewhat by madshi's explicit pointing out the "0,0,0"-issue; on top comes that if you let check the properties of those calibration paterns (mkv or mp4) with Mediainfo, you get :

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/66d4f3-1494267033.jpg (http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=66d4f3-1494267033.jpg)

so, on the one Hand "8bit" but on the other Hand "4:2:0", which is "limited" in my understanding...:confused:

but, if I understand you correctly, I can set madVR to "do not calibrate" and then calibrate the TV manually by displaying those paterns via madVR/MPC-BE..., right (I'm talking about a 1080p-display)?

last question: once calibrated, will also the calibration be mostly correct for Window Mediaplayers displaying life-TV? are they using RGB-full (8bit)?

thanks!

(I know I'm somewhat off-topic here, sorry; but on the other Hand, it does also have an impact on how to setup madVR / GPU / TV...)

[huhn]

with default settings madVR and windows media player render every content in full range RGB and give that the GPU driver.

nearly every video out there is YCbCr and is limited range but this doesn't really matter because madVR is displaying this as full range RGB.

the complicated part is what the GPU driver does with it and if the TV is correctly setup for full range or not.

[arrgh]

with default settings madVR and windows media player render every content in full range RGB and give that the GPU driver.

nearly every video out there is YCbCr and is limited range but this doesn't really matter because madVR is displaying this as full range RGB.

the complicated part is what the GPU driver does with it and if the TV is correctly setup for full range or not.

ok, thanks for the important confirmation :thanks:

[pose]

After some testing i think im switching to NGU AA exclusively for ALL 2D anime regardless of quality.

[gicug]

Has anyone tried HDR passthrough using an Intel Kaby Lake GPU and one of these adapters?

https://www.amazon.com/DisplayPort-HDMI-2-0a-Active-Adapter/dp/B01B6ZOMIS

https://www.amazon.com/Club3D-Displayport-1-2-HDMI-CAC-1070/dp/B017BQ8I54

[ryrynz]

I recommend adding some adaptive sharpening as well.

[johnnylaiyee]

Finally got through the 5 day to post here :helpful:

Recently purchased a GTX1050 for my new LG 4K TV to play 4K HDR video smoothly (my old 970 isn't perform well)

Surprisingly, the 1050 performed well in 1080p -> 2160p, almost the same as my 970

Chroma: Bicubic60 + AR
Downscaling: DXVA
Image upscaling: Off
Image doubling: NGU Sharp
<-- Luma doubling: high
<-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide
<-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Doubling: let madVR decide
<-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide
<-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: High/Medium
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Ordered

Performance: around 35ms when playing 1080p remux files
around 28ms when playing 1080p web-dl TV files

I also applied a custom refresh rate very close to 47.952Hz and successfully get the repeat 1 frame time to hours

However, there are visible judder in panning shots which is quite annoying.
I know that smooth motion is not for 24hz multiplies since it may blurry the image.
Can anyone suggest what I can do to reduce those judder?:thanks:

[huhn]

first of stop using a custom refreshrate of 47p and try the normal 23p and see if the judder is gone.

next problem is the 1050 these card usually only have 2 GB Vram so if this is the case you are running out of Vram with it when upscaling 1080p -> 2160p.
so check the OSD for strange behavoir like dropped frames (it doesn't have to drop frames it may work even when running out of Vram)

next problem is the TV some TV need special settings to display 23/24pcorrect check this out.
some older LG OLED need a firmware update for proper 23/24p so check this out too.

or just use 60 HZ with smoothmotion. always on option.
edit:

Performance: around 35ms when playing 1080p remux files
around 28ms when playing 1080p web-dl TV files
this doesn't make any sense the work is the same if it is a 40 mbit blu ray or a crappy youtube video it doesn't matter what matters is resolution and frame rate.